Updates?

[Mykel]

Anything new?

Updates may be in the memories thread, I havn't been keeping up on it.

[Mykel]

Koni....?

:-(

[URBANLEGEND]

Anything new!?? HAHAHA!

Logged on lately? The Npcs-Server doesnt even start!

[Emily_Cruddas]

Don't worry! It's being worked on! It's just never going to be finished!

[Googi]

Originally Posted by URBANLEGEND

Anything new!?? HAHAHA!

Logged on lately? The Npcs-Server doesnt even start!

No more Zurroball?

[kenyonandelliot]

Originally Posted by URBANLEGEND

Anything new!?? HAHAHA!

Logged on lately? The Npcs-Server doesnt even start!

Yes it does

[Lance]

Prepare yourselves.

[Mykel]

Originally Posted by Lance

Prepare yourselves.

Sarcasm twards Konidas?

[Zxion]

This is off topic, but I like the pic in your sig lance. If you look at it sideways it resembles an eye XD

[Ken Takino]

Somehow, setting a release date seems like a bad idea when it doesn't seem to be anywhere close to completion...

[konidias]

I'm not going to go into details about it. But Lance wasn't responsible for the release date. Stefan is sort of putting the pressure on both of us to get something playable ready by the end of August.

I think basically he wants to see what Lance has completed so far after working since November on it, and he wants to see what exactly is so different about my server that it would warrant having two 2k1 servers.

We're both on a deadline so except SOMETHING by the end of August from both of us. I don't think Stefan needs it to be 100% ready to go though... I think he just wants it to be close enough. I wouldn't stress too much Lance. I think you still have a lot left to do and you know I have a lot left. Good luck with finding staff though, it's quite difficult as we are both aware.

[draygin]

I would be willing to help either Lance or Konidias with level making. But I would want to discuss it with both of you first to see what the differences will be, who you currently have for staff what you intend to do with the server etc... what kind of progress has been made with the time given so far and such. Basically I don't want to work my butt off and end up wasting my time.

Edit: I agree with Huanter's post below I think the wisest decision would be to have Konidias and Lance join up and work together. It seems the most logical choice of action along with the best chance of success.

p.s. I can't post again at the moment but I can edit this post and will be getting a VIP account once I get home tonight probably. Not for any decent content in game but because I do enjoy the forums.

[haunter]

Originally Posted by draygin

I would be willing to help either Lance or Konidias with level making. But I would want to discuss it with both of you first to see what the differences will be, who you currently have for staff what you intend to do with the server etc... what kind of progress has been made with the time given so far and such. Basically I don't want to work my butt off and end up wasting my time.

Nobody does... That's why I think having to seperate servers is a useless idea. From what I understand one of the servers is probably going to end up being "The Winner" and the other is going to get scrapped or something. So yes, in the end the players get the superiour of the two servers... But why have the better of the two, when you could combine them and have something so fantastically amazing your head would explode?

I really like alot of Konidias' ideas for 2k1... But I still despise the idea of there being a chance of all of my work going down the crapper... Not to mention all of the work done by Lance, CheeToS, Scott, Thak, and all of the others that have helped "Graal2001" since it last closed.

I'd just like to see the possiblitity of combining both projects pushed a bit more. I have an understanding that Konidias isn't too keen on that idea... Unless I'm mistaken. But I think I'd like to know what the players think about the idea of a merge. Afterall... Isn't that who we're making this for?

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by haunter

Nobody does... That's why I think having to seperate servers is a useless idea. From what I understand one of the servers is probably going to end up being "The Winner" and the other is going to get scrapped or something. So yes, in the end the players get the superiour of the two servers... But why have the better of the two, when you could combine them and have something so fantastically amazing your head would explode?

I really like alot of Konidias' ideas for 2k1... But I still despise the idea of there being a chance of all of my work going down the crapper... Not to mention all of the work done by Lance, CheeToS, Scott, Thak, and all of the others that have helped "Graal2001" since it last closed.

I'd just like to see the possiblitity of combining both projects pushed a bit more. I have an understanding that Konidias isn't too keen on that idea... Unless I'm mistaken. But I think I'd like to know what the players think about the idea of a merge. Afterall... Isn't that who we're making this for?

Well, I think a 2k1 with both the wonderfully designed kingdoms and Koni's new graphics would look absolutely amazing. But I severly doubt that ever happening

[Lance]

Originally Posted by haunter

Nobody does... That's why I think having to seperate servers is a useless idea. From what I understand one of the servers is probably going to end up being "The Winner" and the other is going to get scrapped or something. So yes, in the end the players get the superiour of the two servers... But why have the better of the two, when you could combine them and have something so fantastically amazing your head would explode?

I really like alot of Konidias' ideas for 2k1... But I still despise the idea of there being a chance of all of my work going down the crapper... Not to mention all of the work done by Lance, CheeToS, Scott, Thak, and all of the others that have helped "Graal2001" since it last closed.

I'd just like to see the possiblitity of combining both projects pushed a bit more. I have an understanding that Konidias isn't too keen on that idea... Unless I'm mistaken. But I think I'd like to know what the players think about the idea of a merge. Afterall... Isn't that who we're making this for?

A merge, combining the good ideas and work from both projects, would be beneficial to Graal2001. That's the important thing, to me. I'm confident that both Konidias and my projects will output something great, but if the good points from both could be combined, it would simply be amazing - even Stefan thinks so. As has been noted, however, Konidias has indicated that he's against this merge. He wants to do things his way, and feels that if he were to work with me he would not be able to accomplish this goal.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Lance

A merge, combining the good ideas and work from both projects, would be beneficial to Graal2001. That's the important thing, to me. I'm confident that both Konidias and my projects will output something great, but if the good points from both could be combined, it would simply be amazing - even Stefan thinks so. As has been noted, however, Konidias has indicated that he's against this merge. He wants to do things his way, and feels that if he were to work with me he would not be able to accomplish this goal.

You and I both know that we would not work well in a co-management situation. So who would be manager? The content merged together might be the best content, but content alone does not make a server great. A server needs good management, and I don't see that happening when we both have different ideas of what 2k1 should be, and you've already had so many problems working with people in the past.

You don't have to make it sound like I'm the evil guy here. I disagree with the merge because I have no idea what my server would be merging with. I have not seen what you've done with 2k1 at all. You might as well be asking me to merge with a foreign country.

My server is a lot different than most anyone here can comprehend right now. I walked around on just the unedited levels with the new movement and body and graphics and it's like an entirely different game to me. I still believe that at the end of August, everyone will understand why a merge wouldn't work. The servers are going to be like night and day.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by konidias

You and I both know that we would not work well in a co-management situation. So who would be manager? The content merged together might be the best content, but content alone does not make a server great. A server needs good management, and I don't see that happening when we both have different ideas of what 2k1 should be

Management would of course be discussed. That's part of the actual process. Saying it doesn't work because we haven't started it yet is silly.

and you've already had so many problems working with people in the past.

I have problems working with immature children. I sincerely hope you are not one of these, for it is a grave error to allow such people to run servers.

You don't have to make it sound like I'm the evil guy here.

I'm not making you sound like the evil guy, just making a couple of statements about how things are.

I disagree with the merge because I have no idea what my server would be merging with. I have not seen what you've done with 2k1 at all. You might as well be asking me to merge with a foreign country.

That's not the only reason you disagree with it. You already pointed out you don't think we could work out a way to management. And you do have an idea - plus, we'd of course tour each other around, run over the ideas with each other, etc. By the way, I'm not sure how you reached the conclusion that these suggations consist of 'we should work our servers together without, yaknow, actually going over things'. That just doesn't make sense. The process would involve a lot of collaboration, a lot of discussion, a lot of planning, etc.

My server is a lot different than most anyone here can comprehend right now. I walked around on just the unedited levels with the new movement and body and graphics and it's like an entirely different game to me. I still believe that at the end of August, everyone will understand why a merge wouldn't work. The servers are going to be like night and day.

Okay. It's different because you have new movement and body and graphics, and we can't understand it for some reason. Gotcha!

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Lance

Management would of course be discussed. That's part of the actual process. Saying it doesn't work because we haven't started it yet is silly.

Maybe he just doesn't want to deal with you? I can understand that desire.

Originally Posted by Lance

I have problems working with immature children. I sincerely hope you are not one of these, for it is a grave error to allow such people to run servers.

If he is one of these, you should be embarassed that he is probably going to win the race.

Originally Posted by Lance

I'm not making you sound like the evil guy, just making a couple of statements about how things are.

Why should he join you? Have you offered him any incentive? He already has his own free server, and alot of people who would not work for you would work for him.

Originally Posted by Lance

That's not the only reason you disagree with it. You already pointed out you don't think we could work out a way to management. And you do have an idea - plus, we'd of course tour each other around, run over the ideas with each other, etc. By the way, I'm not sure how you reached the conclusion that these suggations consist of 'we should work our servers together without, yaknow, actually going over things'. That just doesn't make sense. The process would involve a lot of collaboration, a lot of discussion, a lot of planning, etc.

And all of these collaborations, discussions and plannings would probably not take shape until well after August. What you are trying to do, sir, is force Stefan to eliminate the deadline.

Originally Posted by Lance

Okay. It's different because you have new movement and body and graphics, and we can't understand it for some reason. Gotcha!

Who is "we"? I understand perfectly.

[Spark910]

[DIDNT_READ_ALL_POSTS]
2 Servers? Isn't this inefficient?[/DIDNT_READ_ALL_POSTS]

[Lance]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Why should he join you? Have you offered him any incentive? He already has his own free server, and alot of people who would not work for you would work for him.

We should work together in the best interests of Graal2001. He's got good stuff, I have good stuff. Should Graal2001 not have all of the good stuff rather than some fraction thereof?

And all of these collaborations, discussions and plannings would probably not take shape until well after August.

What? If there was an agreement to start, I do not think it would take terribly long. Where do you get this long time estimate?

What you are trying to do, sir, is force Stefan to eliminate the deadline.

I look forward to your justification of this gem.

Who is "we"? I understand perfectly.

'We' is the 'most everyone here' that Konidias referred to. Might help if you read the thread, buddy, instead of focusing on trolling.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Lance

We should work together in the best interests of Graal2001. He's got good stuff, I have good stuff. Should Graal2001 not have all of the good stuff rather than some fraction thereof?

Should his completely pure 2k1 be polluted with the negative feelings which are commonly pointed at your version due to your management?

Originally Posted by Lance

What? If there was an agreement to start, I do not think it would take terribly long. Where do you get this long time estimate?

I'd imagine that it is done in the same fashion as other things you do.

Originally Posted by Lance

I look forward to your justification of this gem.

^
on trolling.[/QUOTE]

[Lance]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Should his completely pure 2k1 be polluted with the negative feelings which are commonly pointed at your version due to your management?

Because of course everything in this world is either black or it is white and there is no grayscale. And people are never allowed to change their minds. And his has no negative feelings. Gotcha.

I'd imagine that it is done in the same fashion as other things you do.

So in other words, you're basing it on misinformation and a heavily biased opinion, but not on any actual, factual information. Sweet.

^
on trolling.

^
On continuing to fail to provide justification.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Lance

Because of course everything in this world is either black or it is white and there is no grayscale. And people are never allowed to change their minds. And his has no negative feelings. Gotcha.

Currently, the topic is not "everything in this world", it is your potential effect on his project.

Originally Posted by Lance

So in other words, you're basing it on misinformation and a heavily biased opinion, but not on any actual, factual information. Sweet.

Well, I've given you opportunities to refute my claims, but you never have. And no, you're weak "WELL IF YOU DON'T PROVE ME WRONG I'M RIGHT" philosophy doesn't count.

Originally Posted by Lance

^
On continuing to fail to provide justification.

Don't mess with my posts unless you have a reason.
EDIT:Oops, you didn't.
I'm not justifying anything to you. Your plan is bad.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by protagonist

I'm not justifying anything to you.

Well, I know that much already, but I wanted to see your justification/explanation of this, because I have no idea what you mean or how you came to this conclusion:

What you are trying to do, sir, is force Stefan to eliminate the deadline.

But it's cool if you don't want to.

[Zurkiba]

This is my stance on everything -

Lance's server:
Tseng's server is what I really want. It's a reformed classic 2k1. Goes along with the storyline, brings about new kingdoms that look kickass.

A con of this is that Tseng aint exactly the best apple from the Manager Tree. You can argue this all you want but I know it's taken like a year to make two kingdoms. All of his staff keep quitting, that's the only proof I need. This server would be the best if it were completed.


Koni's Server:
It's not what I want. With the kingdoms, bomies, everything. A tileset does not make a server, nor does 2k1 need one. You said that new players wouldn't come without a tileset, however many good servers retain the old tileset. But that's just a minor thing, I dont want a brand new server... I dont want a brand new game... I want Graal2001, simple as that.

You said that Lance's 2k1 and your 2k1 will be like night and day, I dont want that. You can make your own server if you wish, we want Graal 2001.

However, Koni has done a lot in his small timeframe. But then again we dont need a manager who will make a basement from a tower.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

This is my stance on everything -

Lance's server:
Tseng's server is what I really want. It's a reformed classic 2k1. Goes along with the storyline, brings about new kingdoms that look kickass.

A con of this is that Tseng aint exactly the best apple from the Manager Tree. You can argue this all you want but I know it's taken like a year to make two kingdoms. All of his staff keep quitting, that's the only proof I need. This server would be the best if it were completed.


Koni's Server:
It's not what I want. With the kingdoms, bomies, everything. A tileset does not make a server, nor does 2k1 need one. You said that new players wouldn't come without a tileset, however many good servers retain the old tileset. But that's just a minor thing, I dont want a brand new server... I dont want a brand new game... I want Graal2001, simple as that.

You said that Lance's 2k1 and your 2k1 will be like night and day, I dont want that. You can make your own server if you wish, we want Graal 2001.

However, Koni has done a lot in his small timeframe. But then again we dont need a manager who will make a basement from a tower.

We have no idea as to how succesful Koni will be. Change isn't inherently bad.

[ZanderX]

Originally Posted by protagonist

We have no idea as to how succesful Koni will be. Change isn't inherently bad.

I'm sure Zurkiba knows this. But his point is that he doesn't want change, he just wants a slightly updated classic 2k1 as opposed to a renovation like Koni is doing.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by ZanderX

I'm sure Zurkiba knows this. But his point is that he doesn't want change, he just wants a slightly updated classic 2k1 as opposed to a renovation like Koni is doing.

We would all like that, but we can't have it. We've asked for it before.

[konidias]

A slightly updated classic 2k1 wouldn't hold anyone's interest for more than a week. You may say that is what you want, but that's because right now you can't get what you want. Once you have what you want, it won't be that desireable anymore.

I'm not changing 2k1 entirely so that it's not even recognizable as 2k1... I'm simply improving things on 2k1 that will make the server more fun. The general overworld will still be there, just modified a little. The familiar buildings and npcs and whatnot will still be there. In fact, I think it will feel MORE like 2k1 than it has ever been. If that makes any sense. Again, I'm not claiming the new graphics make the server a revolution. It's just a bonus, not my entire revision plan.

My plans for a revision have been culminating since 2002. There is a lot more to it than just new graphics and removal of some stuff. I won't waste my time explaining anymore though. I really need to work on it.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by konidias

A slightly updated classic 2k1 wouldn't hold anyone's interest for more than a week. You may say that is what you want, but that's because right now you can't get what you want. Once you have what you want, it won't be that desireable anymore.

I'm not changing 2k1 entirely so that it's not even recognizable as 2k1... I'm simply improving things on 2k1 that will make the server more fun. The general overworld will still be there, just modified a little. The familiar buildings and npcs and whatnot will still be there. In fact, I think it will feel MORE like 2k1 than it has ever been. If that makes any sense. Again, I'm not claiming the new graphics make the server a revolution. It's just a bonus, not my entire revision plan.

My plans for a revision have been culminating since 2002. There is a lot more to it than just new graphics and removal of some stuff. I won't waste my time explaining anymore though. I really need to work on it.

2k1 was doing perfectly fine... even as a gold server back when everyone was playing 2k2. They said 2k2 would never come back. (Look at picture)

Why did it return? Because it was the exact same server, with kingdoms. It lasted a good while. Why did Lance's first revival fail?... no kingdoms.

[kenyonandelliot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

2k1 was doing perfectly fine... even as a gold server back when everyone was playing 2k2. They said 2k2 would never come back. (Look at picture)

Why did it return? Because it was the exact same server, with kingdoms. It lasted a good while. Why did Lance's first revival fail?... no kingdoms.

So kingdoms is the key!

[draygin]

I know that's what I truly care about I'll be playing which ever one has the better Kingdoms system which so far seems to be more focused on Lance's 2k1.

[konidias]

I don't think kingdoms made the server. I was never really active in any kingdom and I played the server for years.

The reason the 2k1 re-releases failed were not just because of no kingdoms. The first time the server was re-released, everyone's account was reset, the ugly pre-GK bodies were used, and all the jobs paid LESS money than they used to.

I'm pretty sure most everyone is going to agree with me when I say that resetting everyone and then making jobs pay even less just so people can buy the exact same items they once had, is not going to encourage many people to stay around. The new bodies and 150HP or whatever just totally ruined pking/sparring. When you ruin the economy and fighting the whole server is ruined. Kingdoms or not.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by konidias

I don't think kingdoms made the server. I was never really active in any kingdom and I played the server for years.

The reason the 2k1 re-releases failed were not just because of no kingdoms. The first time the server was re-released, everyone's account was reset, the ugly pre-GK bodies were used, and all the jobs paid LESS money than they used to.

I'm pretty sure most everyone is going to agree with me when I say that resetting everyone and then making jobs pay even less just so people can buy the exact same items they once had, is not going to encourage many people to stay around. The new bodies and 150HP or whatever just totally ruined pking/sparring. When you ruin the economy and fighting the whole server is ruined. Kingdoms or not.

People want 2k1 for the kingdoms, not to go and press D all day. The roleplaying enviroment of 2k1 was wonderful because there was a server-player interaction, my most cheerished moment on 2k1 was when the Zormite waterfall was dammed up. We were out there with our hammers and pickaxes breaking that dam up.

They did fail due to kingdoms. Yet again, No one wants a server where you run around and press D all day (you could also make the key S for PKing)

The new bodies actually increased pking and whatnot because it made it easier, it became a game of who could outthink and out maneover your opponet out of who could press S the quickest.

[konidias]

You can't speak for everybody. There were plenty of people who were never part of any kingdom. Just because it was the largest part of your experience doesn't mean it made 2k1 popular.

I plan to have kingdoms on my revision anyway. I'm just doing it a bit differently. For the better I think.

[Sparkplug]

2k1 owned for the CS game above the admin house

[protagonist]

I agree that kingdoms are really, really important. I was never a kingdom guy anyway, but it is quite important. Kingdom-based events and so on are important. Also, cool incentives to join kingdoms.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Sparkplug

2k1 owned for the CS game above the admin house

hell yeah.

Leet was so good at cs

[Ken Takino]

Originally Posted by konidias

You can't speak for everybody. There were plenty of people who were never part of any kingdom. Just because it was the largest part of your experience doesn't mean it made 2k1 popular.

I plan to have kingdoms on my revision anyway. I'm just doing it a bit differently. For the better I think.

I liked kingdoms in general, but there were a few drawbacks, from my perspective. It got really annoying and to a degree, frustrating, to see leadership change so often. Even constantly invading Karakaze got boring after a while.

Personally, I spent most of my time doing jobs--mining, breadmaking, etc.--so I could buy hats. But after just about every playerworld started doing hats (and virtually everything that originiated in NewMain), G2k1 lost part of its uniqueness.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Ken Takino

I liked kingdoms in general, but there were a few drawbacks, from my perspective. It got really annoying and to a degree, frustrating, to see leadership change so often. Even constantly invading Karakaze got boring after a while.

Personally, I spent most of my time doing jobs--mining, breadmaking, etc.--so I could buy hats. But after just about every playerworld started doing hats (and virtually everything that originiated in NewMain), G2k1 lost part of its uniqueness.

This is exactly why I am eliminating human kings. Kings will be smart NPCs. It will work. Believe me.

Not only will npc kings be more reliable, but they will be FAIR, they will not promote their friends, they will not be corrupt (unless scripted to do so)... They won't be totally dull however. You will be able to start off in a kingdom of your choosing, and through various tasks and duties you will get promoted to a higher position of your choosing, and so on. There will be wars and there will be alliances, and there will be all of that. It will just be governed by the system instead of by player kings being completely random.