Graal Kingdoms' Current Status: Terrible

Ziro_of_the_Turks · #1 05-07-2008, 07:48 PM

I'm opening this thread for everyone to discuss GK's current state of failure.

It seems we're having this kind of discussion in the wrong thread, but it's obvious we're going to keep having this discussion.

Yes, there has been many threads like this already. But I think this one will have a better start, and stay focused on the issue.

Constructive criticism is preferred.

Elizabeth · #2 05-07-2008, 09:51 PM

current playercount : 6
x.x

Crimson2005 · #3 05-07-2008, 10:00 PM

Just give up on it, it's not getting fixed any time soon.

Ravenblade1979 · #4 05-07-2008, 10:08 PM

Yeah these topics always fail. Either staff will get more active and fix/add stuff or it will continue this way and die fully.

Stephen · #5 05-07-2008, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Yeah these topics always fail. Either staff will get more active and fix/add stuff or it will continue this way and die fully.

This is a good example of ignorance towards the problem. This is not a "staff" situation. There is a handfull of "staff" and that is only as of the last few days - previous to that there was only myself and speratically Tigairius.

The problem is we need a new manager regardless who so that new staff CAN be hired and so that new content CAN be generated.As it stands now Stefan is knowingly allowing someone who has been innactive for the last six months to "manage" a server. How someone does that while they're entirely alienated is beyond me but appearantly Stefan thinks this is possible.

The finger can no longer be pointed at Bjorn - he has shown he's gone. It's now time to ask Stefan where the new manager is or what he intends to do.

Googi · #6 05-08-2008, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

The problem is we need a new manager regardless who so that new staff CAN be hired and so that new content CAN be generated.

The issue is not the hiring of staff. If it were then all that would need to happen would be the better employment of the developer hiring capabilities of the kingdom leaders. The issue is access to GK's source code, which you do not get even if you're hired as a developer and without which you can't do very much. You could say "Well then we need a new manager who will give people access to the source code" but really all that's required is a single (and fairly passive) policy change, which doesn't require changing the manager.

Of course, if you really want new content, the best way is to simply release most of the source code publicly. This is what happened (due to a server backup being illegally leaked) on 2K1. The result was a lot of new content being made (did this new content actually do anything to stop the server from dying? No it didn't.)

Stephen · #7 05-08-2008, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

The issue is not the hiring of staff. If it were then all that would need to happen would be the better employment of the developer hiring capabilities of the kingdom leaders. The issue is access to GK's source code, which you do not get even if you're hired as a developer and without which you can't do very much. You could say "Well then we need a new manager who will give people access to the source code" but really all that's required is a single (and fairly passive) policy change, which doesn't require changing the manager.

Of course, if you really want new content, the best way is to simply release most of the source code publicly. This is what happened (due to a server backup being illegally leaked) on 2K1. The result was a lot of new content being made (did this new content actually do anything to stop the server from dying? No it didn't.)

Well you don't need the "source code" of the server to script for GK - I assume you mean the information the mudlib uses. It would definitely help people learn to script on GK - which is a large problem I'm having... I need people who have experience and aren't too busy to script.

A manager isn't going to have the authority to hand that sort of information anyways - it comes down to Stefan/Unixmad. This is probably why Stefan is hesitant to give me access, but as I've already said he's being very foolish. He's given iSplash access unknowingly and has given Tig (previous hacked on GK) access to whatever he needs. He's doing more damage with his paranoia and loyalty than good.

cbk1994 · #8 05-08-2008, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Well you don't need the "source code" of the server to script for GK - I assume you mean the information the mudlib uses. It would definitely help people learn to script on GK - which is a large problem I'm having... I need people who have experience and aren't too busy to script.

A manager isn't going to have the authority to hand that sort of information anyways - it comes down to Stefan/Unixmad. This is probably why Stefan is hesitant to give me access, but as I've already said he's being very foolish. He's given iSplash access unknowingly and has given Tig (previous hacked on GK) access to whatever he needs. He's doing more damage with his paranoia and loyalty than good.

Why does it matter if GK's source code gets out? Open source is (generally) good, he should let people use the scripts, even if only on GK.

Why is he worried that people can do harm with access to the code?

Tigairius · #9 05-08-2008, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

and has given Tig (previous hacked on GK) access to whatever he needs. He's doing more damage with his paranoia and loyalty than good.

What's your point, good sir? Seems to me like you're just trying to publicly deface me to try to get the community against me. Unfortunately for you I don't really think the GK community is all that naive to just buy in to everything you're saying. Not to mention all hacking occurred years ago, and recently I've been working on hack detection to prevent people from hacking.

ImmortalHuman · #10 05-08-2008, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Well you don't need the "source code" of the server to script for GK - I assume you mean the information the mudlib uses. It would definitely help people learn to script on GK - which is a large problem I'm having... I need people who have experience and aren't too busy to script.

A manager isn't going to have the authority to hand that sort of information anyways - it comes down to Stefan/Unixmad. This is probably why Stefan is hesitant to give me access, but as I've already said he's being very foolish. He's given iSplash access unknowingly and has given Tig (previous hacked on GK) access to whatever he needs. He's doing more damage with his paranoia and loyalty than good.

Haha, Ok first off Zero your of no material use to Stefan or Unixmad you can GFX wow Tig can do that blind folded and with his hand tied behind his back

I don't even want to start on the stuff I have about you. Don't even say anything about Tig hacking..

Tig would definitly be a good manager He has an IQ of 124 and yours is what like 90?

Quality's of Tig:
Is not corrupt in a management position like Sam or Jagen or Lance.
Can Script Blindfolded.
Can GFX Blindfolded.
Can Gani Blindfolded.
Can Debug his own Coding if needed.
Gets the Job done.

Guess what?

Stefan knows I'm iSplash.
He doesn't care.

Oh and I was about to be Globaled even though I helped foil Joey's anti-graal activity's Who stepped in and had my Back?
Tig!

Tig wouldn't risk all hes accomplished if he didn't think Ive changed...

Also I recall helping Vulcan with some Era issues and I was the one that notified Stefan of the shop table when I found out Kuji and dbug where abusing it. (dbug is Iwir3d i think)

anyways Tig for manager and screw all you haters!

kia345 · #11 05-07-2008, 11:03 PM

Now we just need a manager who's willing to work, not a jerk, and active!

No one like that hangs out on Gk.

Stephen · #12 05-07-2008, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345

Now we just need a manager who's willing to work, not a jerk, and active!

No one like that hangs out on Gk.

Well, if you can set aside the "not a jerk" point I can think of a few people including myself. Actually, with that in mind it's not like the current manager is any less a jerk - I've asked him questions only to be bounced between him and Stefan for weeks before I lose my patience and start telling them off.

kia345 · #13 05-07-2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

including myself

Doesn't sound half bad.

Elizabeth · #14 05-08-2008, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345

Now we just need a manager who's willing to work, not a jerk, and active!

No one like that hangs out on Gk.

oh, we could get malinko!
wait , we need one thats not a jerk, and willing to work.

kia345 · #15 05-08-2008, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

malinko!

Dead men make horrible managers

Elizabeth · #16 05-08-2008, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345

Dead men make horrible managers

oh yeah, i forgot that he died .

cbk1994 · #17 05-08-2008, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345

Dead men make horrible managers

At least they tend not to abuse their power.

Stephen · #18 05-08-2008, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbkbud

At least they tend not to abuse their power.

You definitely don't want Malinko then :P

Tigairius · #19 05-08-2008, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

malinko!

Initiating negative rep sequence. Done.

Elizabeth · #20 05-08-2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Initiating negative rep sequence. Done.

LOL
thank you
i forgot that was a forbidden word on the forums
and everywheres else .

Crimson2005 · #21 05-07-2008, 11:51 PM

rofl no one will listen to you. I would have thought you'd have figured that out by now.

xAzerothx · #22 05-08-2008, 12:29 AM

Didn't you make a thread the exact same as this a few weeks ago?

Robin · #23 05-08-2008, 01:34 AM

I'll be the manager, of course, I DEMAND CREATIVE CONTROL [/sarcasm]

xAzerothx · #24 05-08-2008, 01:48 AM

Tig4managerlulz

DustyPorViva · #25 05-08-2008, 01:59 AM

Sounds like Classic. Staff willing to work, but inactive management that won't seem to be let go.

Darklux · #26 05-08-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Sounds like Classic. Staff willing to work, but inactive management that won't seem to be let go.

You can count Atlantis in too from what I have heard, that makes three worlds of that kind.

kia345 · #27 05-08-2008, 02:08 AM

He took part in a conversation about people being mature last night. I would assume that mature men don't lie. So he's clearly a zombie.

xAzerothx · #28 05-08-2008, 04:21 AM

How would we get the source code if the manager isn't even on to give it to us?

Googi · #29 05-08-2008, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAzerothx

How would we get the source code if the manager isn't even on to give it to us?

The manager shouldn't have to "give" you the source code. You should be able to download it like most development staff on other servers can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Well you don't need the "source code" of the server to script for GK

It depends on what you're trying to do, but almost anything aside from very small updates would require knowledge of the GK's unique function and variable names, probably some idea of how the functions work, and the best way to get that knowledge is to look at relevant scripts on the server.

There are other cases where it wouldn't truly be necessary but would be good for purposes of efficiency/consistency. If you're making a new spell, for example, it would be more efficient and maintain consistency between the various spell scripts (I suppose it's not impossible that all spells run off a single function, but I doubt it. If they run off multiple functions with one for each of the various "types" of spells such as bullet, cone, etc. as is more plausible, assume the spell being made is something completely different) if you could look at the other spell scripts/functions while making it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

I assume you mean the information the mudlib uses.

"Source code" refers to all scripts on the server.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

A manager isn't going to have the authority to hand that sort of information anyways - it comes down to Stefan/Unixmad. This is probably why Stefan is hesitant to give me access, but as I've already said he's being very foolish. He's given iSplash access unknowingly and has given Tig (previous hacked on GK) access to whatever he needs. He's doing more damage with his paranoia and loyalty than good.

I don't really understand what Stefan would have to lose by publicly releasing a lot of 2K2's source code (though I can see why he would want to keep SOME of it secret if he thinks it could be used to develop exploits). It's not like he's some petty playerworld owner. Even if playerworlds "steal" some of the code, it's hard to see how Stefan loses out given 2K2's current situation, and he would stand to gain if it results in an improvement in the quality of playerworlds.

cbk1994 · #30 05-08-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

I don't really understand what Stefan would have to lose by publicly releasing a lot of 2K2's source code (though I can see why he would want to keep SOME of it secret if he thinks it could be used to develop exploits). It's not like he's some petty playerworld owner. Even if playerworlds "steal" some of the code, it's hard to see how Stefan loses out given 2K2's current situation, and he would stand to gain if it results in an improvement in the quality of playerworlds.

Complete agreement. What could he lose by releasing code?

There is really no way to work on GK's scripts (I was asked to make a treasure chest which logged actions) without this. How can I possibly make this chest without access to the main chess class?

xAzerothx · #31 05-08-2008, 05:44 AM

Ok, who will upload it somewhere so we can download the source?

ImmortalHuman · #32 05-08-2008, 09:54 PM

Thanks Hatred for getting me debug so I could do work for Samurai and Forest.

Thanks Stephen for being gelious and nervious about me erasing you from existance.

Robin · #33 05-08-2008, 09:57 PM

Intelligence quotient points are fantasy these days. Someone may score very low on an IQ test and be able to do astronomical physics equations in their head. If you practice on example IQ tests for about a month before you take an "official" (And I used the term loosely) IQ test, you will score much higher than you would if you had no practice and just sat down at it.

Judge a person by his character, it is up to everyone to take into account their history, how they've either overcome their history or not, their love for this game and their vision. If you have no vision, what's the point of being a manager? You manage a team to change or improve a server. Not to sit there on RC gleefully pining over all your rights and giggling.

Not to step on anyone's shoes, but I thought Bjorn and myself were good friends before I left, and I did not see him post when I got back and have not seen him post here since. I've still got his AIM on my list yet he's never online, so I'm forced to assume he's either inactive or quit.

It's up to the owners of the player world who to make manager, and in this case it's Stefan / Unixmad.

They will appoint who they feel like, when they feel like, and there really isn't anything this thread will do to help anything other to boost the egos of those people 'running' for Manager, when in the end, it's not the choice of the players, nor the staff, it's down to Stefan and/or Unixmad and unless either of these two gives the word, nothing is going to happen.

Face facts.

DustyPorViva · #34 05-08-2008, 09:57 PM

Well, I don't get why people think managers need to be able to do the work in order to manage it. A management is a management position, not a development position.
It helps to be able to develop, but it's far from necessary.

Tigairius · #35 05-08-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Well, I don't get why people think managers need to be able to do the work in order to manage it. A management is a management position, not a development position.
It helps to be able to develop, but it's far from necessary.

Excuse me, but I don't believe anyone ever said developing is necessary in this thread.

Robin · #36 05-08-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Well, I don't get why people think managers need to be able to do the work in order to manage it. A management is a management position, not a development position.
It helps to be able to develop, but it's far from necessary.

Where does it say that in my post Dusty? I never said that.

This is the second or third post I've seen where you've replied without reading what I wrote

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbkbud

Complete agreement. What could he lose by releasing code?

There is really no way to work on GK's scripts (I was asked to make a treasure chest which logged actions) without this. How can I possibly make this chest without access to the main chess class?

When I was working for Debug I was given access to all the scripts I needed o.o

ImmortalHuman · #37 05-08-2008, 10:07 PM

Like I was talking about with Tig on AIM,Stefan and Unixmad Implemented Crossfire's mud into GK meaning that a good amount of the npc's on gk that haven't been recoded sources are available to the public.

Robin are you the Robin I worked with? (if you haven't noticed Im iSplash)

Robin · #38 05-08-2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImmortalHuman

Like I was talking about with Tig on AIM,Stefan and Unixmad Implemented Crossfire's mud into GK meaning that a good amount of the npc's on gk that haven't been recoded sources are available to the public.

Robin are you the Robin I worked with? (if you haven't noticed Im iSplash)

Yes, and why are you going around like that's something to be proud of?

ImmortalHuman · #39 05-08-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin

Yes, and why are you going around like that's something to be proud of?

I'm not lol but it seems like to everyone its a big deal

cbk1994 · #40 05-08-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin

When I was working for Debug I was given access to all the scripts I needed o.o

As far as I know, this doesn't happen at all anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImmortalHuman

Like I was talking about with Tig on AIM,Stefan and Unixmad Implemented Crossfire's mud into GK meaning that a good amount of the npc's on gk that haven't been recoded sources are available to the public.iSplash)

Of course they were rescripted ... Crossfire's code couldn't just be pasted and work with GS2.