HP Randomly Dropping

[Rufus]

On occasion my HP will randomly drop to 4 no matter what it was, and this has been happening for about a week now. The hearts display shows the 4hp in the heart size that it should be when you get down to 3hp, with the bigger hearts. This didn't happen before and it is really starting to really annoy me now because it has happened in events, and as I'm not the only one who has this problem, you can't really tell if someone is lying about it or not.

[DarkCloud_PK]

I have no idea really, we've been having a lot of glitches with the health and ap restriction system, as well as NC spam about it when the systems were messed with a week ago.

[maximus_asinus]

I've had the same problem. One minute I'm at eight hearts, the next I have three. First I thought it was just my mind playing tricks on me, and I falsely remember being fully healed, but the other day Thor or someone warped me to look at something and my hearts suddenly dropped.

[-Ramirez-]

I made some substantial changes to the way health is changed about a week ago, as was already mentioned. Thor and I talked about it beforehand, but it turned out we were both wrong about something, and it caused problems as a result.

The only way it can easily be tracked down is if a specific situation can be found where the problem occurs with some regularity. This is a good example of the patheticness of the current system scripts. It's far too difficult to do the simplest thing with them. The change was made to try to alleviate some of this difficulty.

So, rather than pointlessly insulting me, Thor, or anyone else, be constructive and look for a pattern to the problem. (Yes, I realize no insults have been used yet in this thread, but it has happened outside of the forums, so I thought I'd address the problem before it starts here.)

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

The only way it can easily be tracked down is if a specific situation can be found where the problem occurs with some regularity.

After talking to a few others that have had the same issue, there doesn't seem to be any regularity in the problems with the HP. Can't you just upload a backup of the systems you've edited?

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Rufus

After talking to a few others that have had the same issue, there doesn't seem to be any regularity in the problems with the HP. Can't you just upload a backup of the systems you've edited?

If you think it isn't regular in any way (which I doubt is the case, it may just not be obvious), keep track of individual incidents.

I didn't mention it in the previous post, but there's a little more to it than solely improving the ease of use of the scripts. If the old data is put back in place, it'll remove the extra that was added. It'll also potentially erase a lot of changes between then and now. There were hundreds of scripts that were edited in order to make this change overall.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

If you think it isn't regular in any way (which I doubt is the case, it may just not be obvious), keep track of individual incidents.

I didn't mention it in the previous post, but there's a little more to it than solely improving the ease of use of the scripts. If the old data is put back in place, it'll remove the extra that was added. It'll also potentially erase a lot of changes between then and now. There were hundreds of scripts that were edited in order to make this change overall.

I don't know about others, but I find it quite difficult in keeping track of my HP as it now changes at random and doesn't always have the correct display of hearts. I'm pretty much always active (though it just dropped when I unpaused from being idle) and therefore my AP and HP are also constantly changing legitimately, making it hard to keep track of conditions. Would it not be possible to track or identify potential patterns via script?

From a player perspective, I'm not sure that it is good form to be just leaving the system as it is because it is live. If you've made substantial changes, the only ones that we've noticed as players are the drops in HP, so why not back up your work and then implement the changes back when you're certain there isn't going to be any irregularity in them? At current they just seem to be getting in the way of general playing.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Would it not be possible to track or identify potential patterns via script?

Possibly, but it's difficult without going from every potential starting point and following through the web of system scripts. It's easy to miss something, assume something, or not even consider all the possibilities. Having a description of when it occurred and what was happening at the time is the best way to start.

From a player perspective, I'm not sure that it is good form to be just leaving the system as it is because it is live.

Of course, from a player perspective, you don't want any problems to arise, but that's the nature of programming. This is especially when you're dealing with other peoples' work that was conceived in a box with no consideration of who might be using it.

so why not back up your work and then implement the changes back when you're certain there isn't going to be any irregularity in them?

Well, as I explained above, the easiest way to resolve problems in a complex group of interacting scripts is to get descriptions of them malfunctioning while in use.

At current they just seem to be getting in the way of general playing.

Everyone realizes this, and it certainly wasn't my intention to cause problems. If I get something to actually go off of, I'll look into tracking it down.

[-Ramirez-]

I think the "problem" is completely related to AP. I'm not even sure it is a problem.

When you get a "full heal" in a GC level or by some other means, it allows your HP to bet set higher than AP restrictions would normally allow. So if you have 0 AP, you'd normally be capped at 3 hearts, but a full heal would set it to however many hearts you've obtained via quests. When you exit a GC level and enter a normal level, it puts you under AP restrictions again, so in the case of 0 AP, you'd drop to 3 hearts. Are you sure this isn't the behavior you're experiencing? That doesn't really explain the pause thing, but since no details about the location or AP were given about that situation, I can't really know what could cause it.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

Of course, from a player perspective, you don't want any problems to arise, but that's the nature of programming. This is especially when you're dealing with other peoples' work that was conceived in a box with no consideration of who might be using it.

It's a live system though.

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

I think the "problem" is completely related to AP. I'm not even sure it is a problem.

When you get a "full heal" in a GC level or by some other means, it allows your HP to bet set higher than AP restrictions would normally allow. So if you have 0 AP, you'd normally be capped at 3 hearts, but a full heal would set it to however many hearts you've obtained via quests. When you exit a GC level and enter a normal level, it puts you under AP restrictions again, so in the case of 0 AP, you'd drop to 3 hearts. Are you sure this isn't the behavior you're experiencing? That doesn't really explain the pause thing, but since no details about the location or AP were given about that situation, I can't really know what could cause it.

Okay here's two instances:

• When I unpaused and it dropped I was in graalcity_outside_03.nw and had somewhere around 50ap. I might have went into a GC level prior to this, but I hadn't joined an event all day.
• I've just logged on and it did the same thing, graalcity_outside_03.nw ap is 35 and obviously as I've just logged on I haven't been in any events. My hp dropped to 4 small hearts, then just as I unpaused after writing this it went to the larger hearts.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Rufus

It's a live system though.

Examining it without it being active for testing scenarios would make it even more difficult to fix. I know you just want the problem fixed now regardless of the cost to the developers, but that isn't going to result in any sort of improvement in the end.

Okay here's two instances:

• When I unpaused and it dropped I was in graalcity_outside_03.nw and had somewhere around 50ap. I might have went into a GC level prior to this, but I hadn't joined an event all day.
• I've just logged on and it did the same thing, graalcity_outside_03.nw ap is 35 and obviously as I've just logged on I haven't been in any events. My hp dropped to 4 small hearts, then just as I unpaused after writing this it went to the larger hearts.

What were your hearts at before they dropped in both situations?

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

Examining it without it being active for testing scenarios would make it even more difficult to fix. I know you just want the problem fixed now regardless of the cost to the developers, but that isn't going to result in any sort of improvement in the end.

What needed improving?

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

What were your hearts at before they dropped in both situations?

I have no idea for the first, I just seen the big drop. Second time around I was on 6hp.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Rufus

What needed improving?

The way HP changes were done, obviously. It's all consolidated into a single function now, for the most part. It was generally up to each individual script to do it right before. I also needed to add something to this new function to allow my hit detection to function.

I have no idea for the first, I just seen the big drop. Second time around I was on 6hp.

Well, this doesn't really make any sense in terms of what I know about the code, but it does give me something to test.

Edit: I can't reproduce this in any way. Nothing in the code that I've seen suggests that it should happen either. I'm going to need more examples to have any hope of finding the cause.

[Crimson2005]

This hasn't been fixed yet btw.

[Rufus]

• 24 AP, graalcity_outside_03.nw, and it happened when I closed my Q menu.

[ff7chocoboknight2]

Q-Menu causes you to pause. I'm thinking that unpausing may cause this. Can't think of a reason on why it does, though.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by ff7chocoboknight2

Q-Menu causes you to pause. I'm thinking that unpausing may cause this. Can't think of a reason on why it does, though.

It has happened at times when I haven't unpaused, it's just I haven't been passive enough to take note of what the conditions were. Earlier while we were fishing it dropped though and I wasn't paused or in my Q menu, it just happened.

[ff7chocoboknight2]

Hmm. Happened to me when I changed my weapon to the bow. Kat's changes don't make any sense either. The conditions are odd.

[xnervNATx]

Fortbuilder today , gemini was hosting fortbuilder allstar and i went from 7.5 to 2.5 with 1 sword and 1 arrow.

its did it when i got hit having my menu up too. z.z

[Rufus]

• Just happened again when I switched between the forums and Classic. I wasn't paused, I have 34ap and had 6 hearts, which dropped to 4.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Rufus

• Just happened again when I switched between the forums and Classic. I wasn't paused, I have 34ap and had 6 hearts, which dropped to 4.

At 34 AP, you should never have had more than 5 to begin with. I'm betting your hearts (on the server) were at the correct value, you just weren't seeing it the right way clientside for some reason. This could happen if you weren't receiving updates to the "flag" that controls the display of hearts clientside, but I have no idea why this would happen.

Edit: Actually, it's quite obvious that this could occur if you had a lapse in connectivity with the server. You might not be particularly aware of it occurring, then suddenly see a drop in health as a result of what happened while you weren't receiving data. This obviously isn't applicable for some of the cases mentioned, but it's certainly plausible for others.

Also, the information I need in a "report" is: AP, level, heart count before the drop, and heart count after the drop. Not having these 4 elements doesn't really allow me to refine the problem.

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

At 34 AP, you should never have had more than 5 to begin with.

Maybe he just had 40 AP with 8 hearts, killed someone, and was only hit a few times.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

Maybe he just had 40 AP with 8 hearts, killed someone, and was only hit a few times.

I wasn't considering AP dropping as a result of killing someone. That may be part of the cause. I'll look when I can.

[Rufus]

Something interesting just happened. I was on 6.5 and I was paused, when I unpaused my hearts dropped to 3.5 (instead of the usual 4), 61 ap, graalcity_outside_03.nw as per usual.

[Rufus]

This bug still exists.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Rufus

This bug still exists.

^^^

[DarkCloud_PK]

lol kat what did you do.
dude i have no idea

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

lol kat what did you do.
dude i have no idea

lol DC what did you do. (Question marks are bad.)
Have you been in a box for the last few months?