New Scripting Tutorial Soon?

[Projectshifter]

Lately I've been getting a lot of requests to make a new scripting tutorial, and I've been thinking about it. If I do I will probably do it next weekend depending if I go to this tournament or not.
But the real question is should I spend the time on it, and if so, should I do it in the current engine or the new engine?

If I do it in the current engine, people can use it now, and basically always. If I do it in the new engine (which I think some current scripters prefer) it cannot be used for quite some time, so would not make much sense until people can try it. So please, let me know what you think. If you think it should be made, which language and give reasons why. Not just "I want to see new engine!" yes, everyone does, but think practically for reasons please.

[Nappa]

I dont think you should make one. Everyone is getting lazy. I learned to script moderately well (i'm not near the best) by doing it myself and asking questions.

[DarkShadows_Legend]

New Engine, because it is new and seems like it is going to be a lot different than the old.

[Projectshifter]

Originally Posted by Nappa

I dont think you should make one. Everyone is getting lazy. I learned to script moderately well (i'm not near the best) by doing it myself and asking questions.

But wouldn't it be an incentive for new people to learn to script? I might try to talk to Stefan about doing some type of #gscript thing that is globally controlled as to where people can test scripts and such. I think that it's important that we not only improve the current scripters we have, but to encourage new people to take it up, to try their hand at it. It's like how they always say "children are our greatest resource". Why is that? It's because they're the future, once this generation is gone, they will take over. Same concept, once this generation of Graalians starts fading out and is replaced by the new ones, wouldn't it be nice to have some good scripters?

[ApothiX]

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

I might try to talk to Stefan about doing some type of #gscript thing that is globally controlled as to where people can test scripts and such.

Be sure to give access to your good friend Okie

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

But wouldn't it be an incentive for new people to learn to script? I might try to talk to Stefan about doing some type of #gscript thing that is globally controlled as to where people can test scripts and such. I think that it's important that we not only improve the current scripters we have, but to encourage new people to take it up, to try their hand at it. It's like how they always say "children are our greatest resource". Why is that? It's because they're the future, once this generation is gone, they will take over. Same concept, once this generation of Graalians starts fading out and is replaced by the new ones, wouldn't it be nice to have some good scripters?

I think if a guide to scripting was made, more people would be lazy, more untrustworthy people would script, and their would be more problems.

But at the same time yes, more good people with good work ethics would script. I think it's kind of like a double edged sword in that aspect.

However I think if people truly want to learn, they will do it the good ol fashioned way.

[Projectshifter]

Originally Posted by Nappa

I think if a guide to scripting was made, more people would be lazy, more untrustworthy people would script, and their would be more problems.

But at the same time yes, more good people with good work ethics would script. I think it's kind of like a double edged sword in that aspect.

However I think if people truly want to learn, they will do it the good ol fashioned way.

I agree with you in many aspects of this, but I don't think "laziness" really means much. I think it takes incentive to sit down and try and read over a tutorial and play with it to try to understand it. Many people are turned off because they think learning to script is far outside their reach. I think if we enabled the average person to have a shot at learning it, then we might find ourselves overwhelmed by the number of people who are fairly decent at it? We may not find any great coders of our time, the majority of really really good coders do other languages and pick them up quite quickly. I've met a total of 5 or 6 people in my life who can just take a language, and run with it. But some coders > no coders?

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

I agree with you in many aspects of this, but I don't think "laziness" really means much. I think it takes incentive to sit down and try and read over a tutorial and play with it to try to understand it. Many people are turned off because they think learning to script is far outside their reach. I think if we enabled the average person to have a shot at learning it, then we might find ourselves overwhelmed by the number of people who are fairly decent at it? We may not find any great coders of our time, the majority of really really good coders do other languages and pick them up quite quickly. I've met a total of 5 or 6 people in my life who can just take a language, and run with it. But some coders > no coders?

True, I suppose. It just depends on how you look at it.

[Shaun]

Untrustworthy people scripting...???

...Huh?

[Nappa]

Someone who want's to blow up your server specifically because they think it's "Fun"

[Lance]

"A new scripting tutorial" is pretty vague, man. If you don't state what topic(s) the tutorial would cover, I can't vote in your poll.

[Projectshifter]

Originally Posted by Lance

"A new scripting tutorial" is pretty vague, man. If you don't state what topic(s) the tutorial would cover, I can't vote in your poll.

The topic would be general scripting Would be some parts that are more indepth, but it would be a beginner to novice level, and then would include some more advanced instructions. It's like books that explain concepts, then have those random boxes that are in the middle of the page that annoy you with extra facts that you wouldn't understand unless you already know the subject matter, lol.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

The topic would be general scripting Would be some parts that are more indepth, but it would be a beginner to novice level, and then would include some more advanced instructions.

I have a suggestion, if you're going down that path: how about a primarily languageless tutorial where you explain just the concepts involved without delving too much into the code? I think that would be the most beneficial if your goal is to bring new people into scripting. Plus, it could easily be adapted from the current engine to the new engine.

It's like books that explain concepts, then have those random boxes that are in the middle of the page that annoy you with extra facts that you wouldn't understand unless you already know the subject matter, lol.

Uh. You want to have boxes that people wouldn't understand unless they already understood it? That seems silly. Why not have boxes with explanations that people would understand if they didn't already?

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Nappa

Someone who want's to blow up your server specifically because they think it's "Fun"

You don't need to be a scripter to screw something up. Besides, what's stopping those who keep current with the scripting system from doing that now? On one classic-tab playerworld, scripters already abuse their scripting abilities to unbalance the game in ways the management disaproves of, but unfortunately there is a lack of scripters so nothing can be done.

Give me FTP access to a playerworld, I bet I, one limited in the new GScript, can do some damage.

[ApothiX]

Originally Posted by Shaun

On one classic-tab playerworld, scripters already abuse their scripting abilities to unbalance the game in ways the management disaproves of

As far as I know, If a playerworld was devoted to letting people test scripts and things like that, it is impossible to 'abuse their scripting abilities to unbalance the game', as there was no original balance to begin with.

Originally Posted by Shaun

but unfortunately there is a lack of scripters so nothing can be done

Which is why this is a good idea, more people will learn how to script, so there will no longer be a shortage of scripters.

[Projectshifter]

I think I like Lances idea. A language-less tutorial for the most part. Basically teaching the basics of learning any type of language. Will use a lot of Gscript as an example though, but kind of make it more broad and explain how to learn and teach yourself Seems much more beneficial I agree. Will be a bit odd thinking so broadly but I will try. I might sit down and do it today or tonight if I get time.

[falco10291029]

I think you should make one for the new engine so that I can learn it and begin improving my playerworld (and possibly then work on 3d servers)

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

I think I like Lances idea. A language-less tutorial for the most part. Basically teaching the basics of learning any type of language. Will use a lot of Gscript as an example though, but kind of make it more broad and explain how to learn and teach yourself Seems much more beneficial I agree. Will be a bit odd thinking so broadly but I will try. I might sit down and do it today or tonight if I get time.

Unfortunately, this is not what is needed. Unless I am incorrect, there is no public information source of all the scripting entailed with Graal's NPC Server and new GScript. Programming itself is an easy concept, with the algorithms and such being not uncommon to basic logic and algebra. Many easily accessible places exist where one can learn the basics to develope these thinking skills; however, I do not believe there is a single public place to learn all the GScript/NPC Server specific coding.

[middo]

Well I have worked with Gscript 2 (Mushia) and already know that it is SUPER EDGY... Small GUI Script just suddenly refuses to let me log onto player. Galdor is going to kill me, if Tesh doesnt first...

But, learning to teach everyone to script is impossible, you cannot learn without trial and error, and you normally need a server for that.

[Projectshifter]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Unfortunately, this is not what is needed. Unless I am incorrect, there is no public information source of all the scripting entailed with Graal's NPC Server and new GScript. Programming itself is an easy concept, with the algorithms and such being not uncommon to basic logic and algebra. Many easily accessible places exist where one can learn the basics to develope these thinking skills; however, I do not believe there is a single public place to learn all the GScript/NPC Server specific coding.

I need to figure out then what to do. If I made a really broad overview of how to learn scripting and the basics (language non-specific really), then it would help new people get into it. But then again I could write a really in-depth on one of the Graal engines and about how to get the most of your NPC Server and such. So once I figure that out I'll sit down and write it one day after classes this week I think.

[Shaun]

Ok, sorry for seeming a bit blunt/rude, especially when you're trying to help. Best of luck with that.

[Projectshifter]

Stefan said he'd like to see a more generic one, and one that applies to both engines and not just one specifically. So I will be writing a very broad scripting tutorial on everything from strings and functions to datatypes and such (Strings are a type of datatype yes I'm aware :P). So it'll be broad, but will include references to both engines in it.

[falco10291029]

how is one supposed to learn gscript2 then? I geuss maybe if stefan releases some examples ranging from novice to expert use I could probably use it, as long as I got a commands.rtf for gscript2 (same way I learned gscript1 )

[Projectshifter]

Originally Posted by falco10291029

how is one supposed to learn gscript2 then? I geuss maybe if stefan releases some examples ranging from novice to expert use I could probably use it, as long as I got a commands.rtf for gscript2 (same way I learned gscript1 )

I will provide minimal examples, but by explaining the object oriented-ness and function use it will be more clear and make more sense. If you read what I'm writing then you will not have any problems adjusting to it.

[falco10291029]

just make a commands.rtf for gscript 2 instead, I'll learn my own way (I really dont like tutorials that simplified."This is a bracket->{. You use this to open or close a set of commands in a script! Do you know what sound the 'if (created) play moo.wav;' makes?" lmao sorry I'm hyper right now ).

[Lance]

Originally Posted by falco10291029

just make a commands.rtf for gscript 2 instead, I'll learn my own way (I really dont like tutorials that simplified."This is a bracket->{. You use this to open or close a set of commands in a script! Do you know what sound the 'if (created) play moo.wav;' makes?" lmao sorry I'm hyper right now ).

Such a document already exists and will be released in the future, so there is no need to reinvent the wheel. It is quite comprehensive

[falco10291029]

*stops working on a stone wheel* fine. Release it then (or give it to me in secret )

[Slash-P2P]

Originally Posted by middo

Well I have worked with Gscript 2 (Mushia) and already know that it is SUPER EDGY... Small GUI Script just suddenly refuses to let me log onto player. Galdor is going to kill me, if Tesh doesnt first...

I work with Gscript2 on Mushia too...I played with it and it wasn't that 'edgy'.

Originally Posted by middo

But, learning to teach everyone to script is impossible, you cannot learn without trial and error, and you normally need a server for that.

I learned from putting stuff in and finding out what works and what doesn't. I would log on the scripting forums once in a while and look at some new commands and try to improve scripts. I suggest people find a complex idea and work over time to make it work.


I'm kind of sick of how everyone is "learning to script" meaning less NATs are needed because some dude learned 2 commands. Lots of playerworlds are hiring newbie scripters and neglecting skilled ones. I'm sorry if you think your great, but a lot of scripters out there suck (I'm not naming anyone).

[Shaun]

My problem isn't that I can't learn to program, I have university programming credits under my belt, plus some isometric engines and such. My problem is that the newer stuff doesn't appear in the NPC Editor, so I don't know that it exists, unless I see it in action. If I see it in action, I can't automatically guess what set of characters in a specific combination makes up the hidden commands.

[falco10291029]

I work with Gscript2 on Mushia too...I played with it and it wasn't that 'edgy'.

Aw where'd you learn to use it?

[Slash-P2P]

Originally Posted by falco10291029

Aw where'd you learn to use it?

Graal3d scripts are already loaded onto Mushia. So I have tons of examples .

[zokemon]

Let the scripters who are underground make the tutorials so you globals can get new people
+ You need to sign on to Mushia + Forums and say high to all of us

[falco10291029]

Graal3d scripts are already loaded onto Mushia. So I have tons of examples .

Aw who';s the one hiring for Mushia? I wish to start learning GS2 as well

[osrs]

Yes, do it over the new engine.

[Slash-P2P]

Originally Posted by falco10291029

Aw who';s the one hiring for Mushia? I wish to start learning GS2 as well

You shouldn't want to work for Mushia just to use GS2
And if you don't know who does the hiring, don't even bother logging on.

[falco10291029]

Actually I wante dto work at Mushia 3d but couldnt because I thoguht I'd have to learn gscript2 beforehand. Learning it ont he job would just be a benefit

[zokemon]

You obviously haven't heard of an internship...

We only want the best of the best scripters and also a mature, focused team.

[falco10291029]

Well the best scripters will currently be those who know any GS2 commands. I can learn very quickly, the only reason I am not perfect with GS1 is that I haven't actually learned every single command because I havent seen examples of them. As soon as I see such examples (as long as the script is at most 1 or 2 levels above my level) I will usually be able to use fairly quickly.

[Skyld]

If you want some Gscript2, Falco, then:

NPC Code:

---

function onCreated() {

  player.chat="LOLOL";

}

---

A tutorial on Gscript2 would be nice. I know Stefan's writing a guide, but I didn't know whether it would be a full guide or whether it will just be like commands.rtf.

[falco10291029]

I know that function onCreated() replaces if (created), i know player.chat= replaces setplayerprop#c, I know that this.string++ replaces setstring this.string,#v(strtofloat(#s(this.string))+1) (thank goodness ). But that's about it. Hopefulyl i can get a job on a 3d world .