[Googi]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Just because you call something the best does not make it so. It may be the best in your opinion, but it's quite egotistical of you to go as far as to say that this system is the best ever.

It's "the best" in the same way that your Graal review was "official".

Originally Posted by Gambet

It's not really that they feel that they are "immune" to corruptivity, but moreso that they are just too lazy to go the extra measure to prevent it, or they have done as much as they could.

I don't see many corrupt staff admit that they are corrupt.

Originally Posted by Gambet

Quite a broad statement, which doesn't really apply to all developmental positions. Coders have the ability to develop their own tools of rule enforcement. You could tell them not to, but could you really get mad at them for banning a trainer user/jailing a trouble maker that is currently on the server, not listening to you at all, and no one else is around to handle the situation?

Creating their own tools of enforcement would be power abuse.

Originally Posted by Gambet

This seems more like server security advice, and not advice on a staff organization system.

It's based on the premise that humans are inherently corruptable whereas NPCs are not, so it's always better to have an NPC script be in a position of enforcement rather than an actual human.

Originally Posted by Gambet

As I stated above, this is another broad statement that doesn't apply to all development positions, since you don't need to have the RC right to ban players as a coder to actually ban a player, since you can code yourself a police system.

See above, doing so would be power abuse. This is technically another flaw in the system but scripters can already do this under the current system anyways.

Originally Posted by Gambet

The server manager shouldn't enforce the rules? Does anyone else see something wrong with this statement?

Want to give some reasons?

Originally Posted by Gambet

Once again, more security advice instead of advice on a staff organization system.

It's there because it's relevant to proposal 5.

Originally Posted by Gambet

First off, you say that the server manager shouldn't enforce the rules, then in this section you state that the GP wouldn't enforce the rules, but the server manager would? Your statements are quite vague and contradictory, or atleast were worded in such a way.

The server manager would deal with rule infractions by GPs and only by GPs. Like I said though, this is the most contentious suggestion in the document.

Originally Posted by Gambet

Secondly, this council of players that basically decide the fate of rule breakers is by far the worst idea a server could ever implement. Graal is based on popularity and how many butts you can kiss to become popular.

Even in the worst case scenario, you'd have to kiss a lot more butts to get rule immunity than you have to in the current system. And players can always recall a GP if they think he's been corrupted.

Originally Posted by Gambet

If your best friend broke a rule and you were to decide his fate, I'm pretty sure you would let him go.

This would only be relevant if appointed GPs didn't have friends. This problem is largely dealt with by the fact that a player's fate is in the hands of multiple GPs rather than just one. Of course, it's still possible that a player might be good friends with most or all the GPs, but it's less likely than the player being friends with just one GP.

Originally Posted by Gambet

GP's are around to enforce rules and keep servers as friendly as possible. If you log on a server and everyone is cursing off the top of their lungs and have profanity in their nicknames, then obviously something is wrong with the staff team on that server.

See proposal 1. The way to deal with profanity is to script yourself out.

Originally Posted by Gambet

A server should never have to rely on its players to do all the work for them.

Unless you're counting the staff as players (in which case players are already doing all the work on almost all servers), I don't see how players are doing all the work in this system.

Originally Posted by Gambet

Why would Events Team members have rights to jail anyways?

They shouldn't, but it seems to happen sometimes anyways (as you said).

Originally Posted by Gambet

Yes, this supports my popularity statement, and my friendship statement.

Which is why you need countermeasures.

Originally Posted by Gambet

Ultimately, it would be better to use the standard GP system with a Chief in charge.

Except that it has more room for abuse.

Originally Posted by Gambet

Your proposals are quite preposterous. Why would any manager have random players decide the outcome of rule breakers? If you can't trust the people in your police force, then they shouldn't be staff in the first place.

They would (hypothetically) implement it out of recognition of the observation that players have statistically been better at detecting staff corruption than server managers.

Originally Posted by Gambet

You can't stop corruptivity, no matter how hard you try, and this system won't lessen corruptivity at all.

Except that it will lessen it.

Originally Posted by Gambet

You can even limit everyones rights so much that they have to be dependant on the server manager for specific rights to things when they may need it, and even that won't stop corruptivity, because all it takes is a coder to have rights to one wNPC of their own to be able to reek havoc on the server.

I'm not talking about developer power abuse in this thread, but rather enforcement corruption. For developer power abuse a seperate system pertaining to developers would have to be created.

Originally Posted by Gambet

So are you now going to suggest limiting the NPC rights of coders to absolutely nothing? And to limit the FTP rights of level makers to nothing?

Because the only ultimate way of stopping corruption is by giving nobody rights on your server and doing all of the work yourself. Inconvenient? Very. Free from corruption? Of course, unless you turn corrupt and ruin your own server.

See above about developer power abuse.

Originally Posted by Gambet

You need to understand that a staff team is more than a team, but a family.

No, they're a team. Feel-good statements are meaningless.

Originally Posted by Gambet

A bunch of stuff about developers abusing power

Yes, obviously this system doesn't do anything about developers abusing FTP access, etc. because it's only designed to deal with enforcement corruption.