Using other peoples artwork
 

This isnt about graphic design as much as it is about my usage of other people artwork. Its very tempting for me to, go into my graal folder, find some suitable graphics, upload them to my server, and use them. I think technically, (i remember reading it somewhere but cant find the source anymore), no matter what i upload, im not stealing anything, because everything i upload, and conversely, everything everyone else has uploaded, is the property cyberjoueurs anyhow. But i know very little about valid usage of the stuff, even if im not actually stealing.

And even if i dont have to fear any kind of reaction from graal staff, I do understand that people spend time on these things, and would like some control over their usage. What is the general consensus? Am i going to get angry so and so's comming onto my server blessing me out for using their lovely tileset? should i just ignore them? Im not actively promoting the server, i really dont even want anyone there right now, other than a few people to help me test some stuff (and to goof off), so i don't feel like im running away with the spoils of someone elses labor.

I am aware though that eventually it would be taken as very rude to just hijack the artwork from other servers, and i do eventually plan to work on getting the server its own artwork. Its just not A1 top priority while im still hashing out the functional details of the game.

What about if i wanted to use some of the graphic from a gold server? kingdoms? zone? Is this 'ok'? Or, if there are no attributing markings on the images, be it in its name, or in the image its self, to the author, or even the playerworld staff id need to contact to ask permission, is it a safe bet no one would really mind if i use it (given that i do eventually plan to stop using it once the server becomes coherent)?

One of the reasons i even bring this up, is that in the very short time that i've had this playerworld, ive had people try to bully me into giving them some kind of staff position on the server, in exchange for graphics, and others come on and basically go 'oo im telling, unless you give me x-y-z', and i personally think it would be pretty harmless, and very convenient, if i could just borrow whats laying around for a while, and not have to succumb to what amounts to extortion and bribery to develop the playerworld. I dont need the graphics yet, i just need a nice placeholder for the time being. I cant make heads or tails of my own, and putting in the time would be more of a distraction at this point that anything.

I figure since you guys are the ones producing the stuff, id get your opinions first. What do you think?

Its wrong to take other peoples work...

think of it this way...
you work for a large business, such as Dell.. you think of a new way to do something, but it is still original, so maybe a new design for a computer monitor...
So ya draw up the blue prints and everything and then a guy that also works for Dell walks in the room.. he can walk in the room, he is authorized, but he decides, wow, this is good work, ima take it.. so he takes it and turns it in to the producers, they create the monitor and, well, there ya have it, the guy just took all the credit for your work.

So noooo way do i think you could just take other peoples work, me being a GAT it is honestly the worst thing to have happen to you on graal...
Ask first, if they say no, then they mean no...

they are developers for thier own server, they spend thier time for what they are working for, not others. So others have no business using it.

Soooo.. if the rules honestly are that any graphics on graal can be used by anyone, why are there Global GATs, and why does every public server get very very angry when you use thier stuff... or why do they put initials befor the title..

Other wise i could sit around and take all the best stuff i see and make it into one great big elite server..

your not allowed to use anyone elses artwork, without whoever did it approving it...

but you are allowed to use the outlines, for like GK's body characters, but then you have to re-color everything...its not so fun >_<

this isnt really an accurate analogy though, im not taking your graphics, and trying to pass them along as my own. Im not even using them in a finished product, im would be using them 'in the mean time'. Though people do come in from time to time and go 'ew wtf' and disconnect, its not an actively promoted server, it isnt even named yet.
As far as it being in the rules, id say its more than its not handled by the rules, or that i atleast havent seen these rules if they are written down anywhere, than that they say anywhere explicitly, (paraphrased) "you can do what you like with graphics from other peoples servers". I cannot site where i read about that 'who owns what you upload' thing, so lets pretend that i didnt. And yes, if i know who to ask, ill certainly ask, and respect their answer, in the context of me using it in an active, decently complete game. but if im just testing something, and i dont have a suitable graphic, itd be like having to ask the author of book if i could use it to prop a wobbly table on.

Though i highly doubt that just having good graphics would make the server elite, honestly i dont see that being such a bad thing, because that would mean there would be 1 more great big elite server (it would just change what motivates people to contribute graphics).

could you direct me to where this is written? if its written somewhere, like a sticky, or some hidden rules page for playerworlds, id like to have a look at it. I remember something about it being 'in bad taste to', but nothing about 'you are not allowed to', and that was only about marked artwork, the anonymous stuff wasnt mentioned.

this is all mostly a premptive, i am using some gk graphics for a goofy npc weapon, no playerworld graphics. Im really just trying to figure things out before i am knee deep in it.

When I read the thread, it moved me to tears...
It's hard to see that people have to take others work to impress other ppl with things he cant do...

well im not sure if the system is the same now, but most servers which did have graphics that belonged to that server only used to either put it on a news page on a website saying that n ographics is to be reproduced without consent of the designer or server owners, or the graphics in question can not be used if they have a format such as (servername)_*.png/gif or something like that.. could be wrong though. ill read it up.

Well im sorry i have made you sad. But if you had taken more than a superficial amount of the thread in when you read it, you would understand that A) this is mostly hypothetical, B) im talking about a server in development. Its more a matter of not triggering peoples gag reflex, than getting a 'l33t serv3r' merrit badge. No, im not a graphics person, i admit that. If all using other peoples artwork will get me is a little condescending pitty, then i think i could suffer that for a while.

Make your own content. Don't steal other people's. It doesnt matter if it belongs to Graal, have some respect for people's work.

Can be found here:

Playerworld Rules

Ok, this was what i was looking for thanks. But does this include gk and zone? Would they qualify as playerworlds?

I dont know about Zone, but I think I read somewhere that there are a few images from GK that can be used, but I dont remember which ones. The best thing to do is to ask Stefan for permission, or ask him which ones can be used.

I am going to see if these rules can be updated, and put where people can find them easily :\

Actually.. I am pretty sure the use of G2k1 and GK images were allowed. (Or it coulda been just the tileset)

Allowed:
Tileset

Not Allowed:
Houses, Items etc.

ok soooo i read Upsilon's reply to my post... and i realize what you are trying to say now, i think..
your talking using graphics more as a "Until we get our own", temperary purposes more like right?? In that case i think it might be ok actually.. just to test scripts or gani ideas maybe... but you would still have to be careful about it, people could still get mad and players could still find it unapealing, soooo

what i say if anything is just make an outline, something fast, but something that would still work, maybe just make the actuall image, just dont detail it so you can easily fix any mistakes, and once ya do its already half finished.

Servers are not seperate entities from Graal Online. They are all property of Cyberjoueurs. When content is loaded onto the servers which is meant for the production of your or other servers which you work for it becomes their property.

I believe that this is mostly out of respect for the users who created the original content. I would not appriciate if I found a bunch of servers using work which I paid someone to make, for example. But then I must realize that I paid people to make property for a company I am not an employee of, and that I wasn't paying for the property but the production of a server which I worked on (and in extension, worked for).

As I said previously, the content which you upload becomes property of Graal Online, and as servers owners one must not think of your server seperately, but as the community. While most people may rent Graal Servers for their own amusement they are actually developing within the community. With that in mind they should not be so hasty to scold other server owners for using artwork which was originally created for their own server.

However, it is really a respect thing, although I would imagine the artist (if they were offended) would not be thinking very clearly; the more servers the artists work is shown on, the more popular (s)he would become.

Personally as a GFXer (a really bad one) I think even if it's for temporar use still check it out with the owner/cerator of the graphic first. Just ask is all I'm sayin.

My take on the "once you upload something it's property of cyberjoueurs" rule is that it's there so that people can't be like a gfx staff on a server and then remove their gfx when they leave and say "you can't use them anymore". It's also so people who make graphics specifically for graal, can't later take them to use in a game not related to graal.

But as far as graal owning the graphics... I really don't think they would go so far as to claim everything uploaded as their own. I mean, I'm sure if I used my Oasis graphics for some non-Graal project, unixmad isn't going to get it shut down and sue me. They weren't really used on Graal for anything, other than being uploaded.

As far as using other playerworld's graphics... it's a big no no. The only graphics you're allowed to use are the ones that came default with Graal. I don't want anyone using graphics that I made specifically for one server. The graal graphics folder is not a free grab bag for anyone to take anything from and use it on their project.

+Allowed:
Trees