1 click backup
 

I realize this has been suggested before, but I feel it is needed now more than ever with this whole sleugh of PWs.

The manager, and only the manager, should be able to backup the entire server with 1 click via Graal.net . To save bandwidth, the backup doesn't have to be downlaoded. As long as it is stored locally I think it will settle most problems. A downloadable backup would be nice, but to save bandwidth I think it would be appropriate to only let the backup file be downloaded once a month.

This could save the PWA a lot of headaches in the very near future. The manager should be reminded somehow, email seems right, to backup their server atleast once a month. I don't think that this would take up a whole lot of space on the server, especially if only 2-3 backups would be able to be kept on the server at any one time.

I remember when Birdbird left Graal2001, I backedup up everything, and I mean everything. It took me about 2 hours to do it in, and probabbly twice as long to restore it all. If a backup option would have been implemented then I would have saved not only tons of time for myself, but also bandwidth for GraalOnline.

I feel this option is extremely needed.

Re: 1 click backup
 

If you already have everything at your disposal, what's the point? You actually wasted your time backing up Graal2001. Stefan has everything for that server considering that it is handled directly by Graal Online. Besides that, its the manager's responsibilty to know to whom they give what rights to certain abilities. If they foolishly give away RCs with full rights then it will be thier own undoing and they deserve every bit of it for being irresponsible. Besides that, they should already have everything considering that they are the manager. The idea is nice and all, but some servers can be over 100mb.

The key thing to remember is to be a responsible manager. If you go around giving people FTP and NC access without a second thought you're just asking for trouble. Know who you hire and make sure you can trust them and that they are of a very stable mind before you give them such abilities. That is the easiest way to avoid one of the most common problems that plagues a lot of servers.

Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

Um... I'm no talking about me. I am talking about saving the PWA time. Don't you just know that almost every server that has been bought in the past 2 weeks will have troubles like this? I don't really see a reason not to do this. Most of the backup will be text files, and those don't take up that much space :\ .

I'd like backups too. Makes it easier to clone PWs, such that instead of "Download these files, configure thusly, then upload to your server, configure thusly...", you can just download the Kingdoms Template, Restore it as a Backup, and boom, you're set.

Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

Um, why text files? I do not understand :/ And people having bought server space is irrelevant as the same problem was and still is very likely to occur with brand new playerworlds. Nothing has changed, but I guess you don't pay much attention.

You're not listening to me. Managers need to take thier responsibilty seriously. If they can't handle it, then they shouldn't be running a playerworld in the first place. All they are concerned with is getting that all elusive RC with which they can show off to thier "friends" who strangely get an RC almost right away. Graal is but a toy to them. Many don't really care much about anything or anyone but themselves despite thier attempts at public relations. If it breaks, they cry until its fixed or a new one is obtained. It has no value to them even if they had paid money. Practically all the new servers I've seen post screenshots on the forums are failed or would-be-failed projects but that is not a problem anymore. The PWA has a different role now that doesn't exactly involve that level of evaluation. While they can say things, ultimately, they have no control over what gets online. If someone wants a server all they do is buy the space for it.

I'm not exactly sure if you're being sarcastic or not :x

Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

But they do have control over which playerworlds are visible.


I can't tell either :( .

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

That is irrelavant. Tiers 2 and 3 are only accessible by Gold/VIP and those are what the PWA has control over. Tier 1 is handled directly by Graal Online. Being visible is different than being online. Again, you fail to listen to what I'm saying. Managers need to take more responsibility for thier actions and need to be held accountable for blunders like that. Just because they pay for a server doesn't mean they are above everyone else.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

I know exactly what you are saying. Just because I don't reply saying "Oh, G_yoshi, you are so correct that I just had to post this", doesn't mean I didn't read what you said.

Incase you haven't noticed I am trying to keep this on topic so Stefan can read this easily, but I guess your just going to make me say this :\ .

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

I'm not necessarily looking for that. Your posts just seem to indicate you do not acknowledge what I'm saying, i.e. you are only reading what you want to read.

This idea is worthless mainly because the manager already has the files on his or her own harddrive. This idea will be a waste of bandwidth since you'll get managers doing backups every night. Plus it opens the door for DoS-like attacks from the anti-graal community should they get a server of thier own or "capture" one from an unexperienced manager. They can sit there and click <backup> until they knock the actual server machince offline. Its not a good idea nor is it efficient. Managers should already posses all the files pertaining to thier server in the event of any kind of data loss. That is just plain common sense.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

It isn't so easy when you have many staff. Maybe you just can't realize how hard it is to keep track of everything because you have been working by your self on DK for so long.


Ahh, you seem to be the one not reading my posts. I already posted previously that this wouldn't be able to be used on will. I said once a month.


Ask any manager of any server. I guarantee almost none have all the files on their server backed up. As I stated in my first sentence in this post it isn't easy when you have many staff.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

Totally irrelevant. In the first place, only the manager actually needs full access. If someone else has full access it should be under very strict conditions and terms. When you get into the asst. manager or co-managers, etc. that's when those troubles begin. Its thier fault and resposibility to properly hand out the correct rights where needed. You don't need ET or FAQ with the ability to edit folder rights or folder configuration. That's not part of thier job. That's really meant for the manager only.

So what? If they have more than one server all they have to do is make each one back up at the same time. I know how to do simple DoS attacks. This just screams "abuse me".

Then why the hell do they even have a server?! If they lack any form of common sense then they have little capacity to much less run one. You don't need a plethera of people (boy, say that 10 times fast :))working on a server. This is what screws so many over is that they give power RCs to one or two friends and it just begins to cascade from there. You, again, are not listening. You're reading, just not listening.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

We aren't talking just about folder options here. We are talking about every level, every script, everything. Lets say a trusted scripter freaks out and deleted some scripts, a backup feature would be great here.


Oh yeah, I can see it now... "L3ts go guys, spend $60 dollars a server for liek 20 s3rbers to cr4sh gr441 for 2 hours!"

Get real G_yoshi, even if they all did manage to somehow backup at exactly the same time it wouldn't make a difference. It's not like it takes tons of proccessing power to extract files from a FTP, especcially if it is on a local hardrive.


I guess we can't all be as smart and as perfect as you. Sometimes we forget or make a slip-up, god forbid something that we are paying good money for help us out.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

You completely missed the point of the example. There is no use in arguing this further as you fail to understand what I say

ROFL!!! I'm more realistic than you are, trust me. I've hung around anti-graalians before, I know how they work. They aren't going to pay for anything anyway. They'll most likely steal servers from inexpereinced managers or find paypal accounts they can use to buy servers. Its not very hard and they'll do it just to cause trouble. You have very poor judgement in this area as well.

I'm far from perfect. Never can be anyway. Common sense is what it is; common sence. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to figure out the obvious. But I guess in your case as well as many others it does. I'm tired of repeating myself. You still cannot grasp what I say. If the managers are incompetent then they have no business in running a server. Its plain and simple. Really, it would be nice if unixmad would at least evaluate those applying for new playerworlds prior to giving it to them. It would save him and the rest of us the hassle of spam in the playerworld forums about some server being corrupt or someone stealing something.

This idea isn't efficient and it isn't safe. It certainly doesn't teach managers to be responsible. Its like hitting the reset button on a console game when you're losing. Just reset so you can repeat that same mistake all over again. I've been playing Graal far longer than you have. I also have a hobby of watching and studying people and I've leared very quickly that many people never learn from thier mistakes.

And this concludes my discussions for the evening...good night.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

If you're going to sit here and try to act intelligent, at least learn how to spell the word THEIR....That's T-H-E-I-R...

It was especially annoying when you put it in bold.

G_yoshi.... I'm not even going to try to talk to you. All you want to do is turn this into an arguement for some reason. It doesn't matter what you think, having a server backup _is_ a good idea. You'll probabbly quote this and say stuff like "irrelavant", "you don't listen to me", or some other stuff to make you sound intelligent, when all you are actually doing is making your self out to be a *******.

*applaudes*

Good job.

Of course having a backup is a good idea. If things go wrong, they can be fixed. But like G_Yoshi said, it should be on the manager's computer. I mean really, who uploads something and then doesn't have a copy of it for themselves in case something happens to it? It's a computer. Things will go wrong. You have different people working on the server uploading things you say? Then download things as they change.
Heck, the best thing would be to have one copy uploaded, one on the manager's harddrive, and two copies burned to CD, with one of those copies put in a safe place where the CD can't get ruined, just in case.

But yes. It's the manager's responsibility. Not Graal's.

But something like Trevor suggested will make it easier and more convienient. I see nothing wrong with that.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

OMG!! SOMEONE CALL THE ****ING SPELLING POLICE :rolleyes:

'thier' looks better to me because of the rule 'i' before 'e' except after 'c'. Exceptions to this are words like weird.

I'm so sorry my spelling mistakes seem to have distracted you from my completely valid points :rolleyes: I never said I was perfect. Hell, even said its impossible to even attain such a thing. We're only human afterall. The least you can do is to find something that is actually on topic rather than attack me for a simple mistake.

And the backup thing isn't easier or convienent. It just lets lazy managers be even lazier. That's not convience. This is why Graal has so many problems with playerworlds is because of irresponsible and lazy managers and staff. They want everything done for them that is really thier job and task to do, not GO's. Seriously, you people must be smoking crack or something to come up with these ridiculous ideas. To solve these kinds of problems you have to go to the very root which happens to be the manager. When you give playerworlds to people who have no clue how to actually handle things that's when these problems begin and it will only stop when competent managers are put in place.

Really, Graal needs an extensive screening process for all its players, not just managers :p No one is certainly perfect, but something like this would tremendously cut down on the number of problems Graal has all together. ::sigh:: Too bad that will never happen. Same thing goes for manager screenings and evaluations. Things like that shouldn't even have to be done, but it really needs to considering the behavior of many players.


Well, you weren't and still aren't listening to me. I never said backuping up a playerworld was a bad idea, just the method you came up with. It gives managers an excuse to avoid thier responsibilities. Being a playerworld manager is more than just a spiffy RC with all rights set to active. I'm not trying to act intelligent anyway. I'm just applying common sense and logic together. Its not as hard as it sounds, honest. I know very well how people behave from just simple observations and I know well enough that something like this is not a good idea. The managers only need rely on GO for technical support not as a 'parent'. That doesn't teach them to take resposibility for thier actions let alone even teach them to use common sense. All they have to do, then, is go crying to Stefan or unixmad until they get what they want. In the end, that has a negative effect on the community because there are people dodging and playing outside the rules.

Caveat Emptor(sp?) comes to mind. For those who don't know what that means it means "buyer beware" and its meant to warn consumers of any sort of possible danger when making strange purchases. This also means its the consumer's responsiblity to know first hand what he or she is getting into when making such a purchase. If they don't its probably not a good idea to buy whatever it is they want.

I before E, except after C, or in case when they sound like A as in Neighbor or Weigh. And Weird is just weird.

And it wasn't sarcasm. We were honestly discussing that earlier - we were going to release a small Kingdoms levels pack so people could start a Kingdoms world on their server. No clue what came of it.

Oh that! Heh, as far as I can tell, Stefan is still very interested in doing that. He's just not sure what to put in and what to make players do on their own. :x

That's silly, we already have a template world. It's just a question of distribution.

I'd love such a template... but what does that have to do with a server-sided backup ability? Maybe I'm just too tired, or not tired enough. Anyway, on that subject, I think the manager should have the files anyway, and while a server-backup may be usefull, if it's only possible once a month as was said, then it's robbed it's usefullnes again. Maybe there could be something which kinda mirrors the server on a different computer every day, automatically, and keeps an additional backup version which is always a week older, or so...

Meh. I don't see it as a wise decision or even an efficient one. Its just not Graal's responsibility to maintain backups of every server. That is the responsibility of the manager and staff and that is part of what they agreed to when they got thier server. Even though its not exactly something that is written its very much part of being a manager. Heh, perhaps Kaimetsu's suggestion of having particular servers controlled by the PWA would be better off. It would certainly cut down on all the hassle those servers cause which is probably worth 2 or more servers' worth of trouble.

I believe it should download such backups to the requestor's computer, and upload over the existing server files.

What it has to do with everything is:
Stefan finishes the template server.
Stefan clicks Backup and downloads it all into one big zip file.
Stefan posts this huge zip on graal.net
Billy downloads the huge zip.
Billy buys a playerworld.
Billy uploads the big huge zip, which unpacks and makes the new world a carbon copy of the template world.
Billy edits it so wells give 99 water and there are cows instead of yodas, chickens instead of squirrels and sheep instead of choupas...
See where it's headed?

Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

So according to this you believe Graal Online deserved everything that happened with Nemesis? No matter how careful you are some times things happen.

(not sure if posted yet havnt read them all yet.)
I think a button that downloads everything into one big zip on your computer would be handy. That way you dont have to go into each directory and download it all one file at a time. Example: Levels/bodies/swords/shields/scripts/etc..

I personally usually try to make a weekly back up and it would definatly be nice if there was some way to make a dump button available.

Yes, auto back ups would be good but what if someone hacked you graal.net and got all the files from your backups?

Re: Re: Re: 1 click backup
 

Yes, it is their fault for what happened, technically. Even Kaimetsu warned them against giving Nemesis the abilities he had. How are they not at fault when they were the ones in the first place that gave him global access? It can't be no ones fault as it has to start from somewhere, understand? Even if its inadvertantly it has to have some kind of origin. Just as its the manager's fault if he gives a friend a full RC and that friend winds back stabbing him. How is it possible that no one is at fault? If you say no one is at fault then you're just ignoring the truth and essentially covering it up. Cause and effect otherwise there can be no effect without a cause behind it ;)

*edit*
A local dump feature would, however, be useful rather than a remote dump. Its probably easier to keep your HD clean of virii than it would be to keep your password safe. ;)

like many webhosts as myself like to do is have progressive backups meaning, if something is modified it is updated in a tar file so that way you can easily download the tar and it backs up automatically

there is no need for a button or anything like that, the backup could be available to the manager or whoever to download if he feels a need to (ie, there was just a big update and he dosen't want to lose any of it)

anyway, backups are always good and making a utility to make it easier for managers to do just that wouldn't be a bad idea at all

However, the manager, more than likely, will already have the levels and images updated stored locally so what is the point? Something that dumps NPC scripts would actually be a good thing especially for db NPCs. :]

Yeah, but no harm automating both. A manager will generally have a local backup so they can work on things offline, but only if they're the ONLY developer. If someone uploads an updated bluelampani.mng that fixes a few things and nobody tells me, it never gets put in my "backup".

If/when I do have more staff that actually do things most of what will be public has to pass me first. If it doesn't meet my standards then it will need to be done again. This includes things coming from players.

Impressively egocentric of you, but what about the servers that aren't so blessed to have you manually approving everything that's ever uploaded by anyone ever?

Yeah, this would be for THEM.

Heh, I was thinking about that :x And I'm not exactly trying to be egocentric, I'm just trying to make sure I'm aware of what is being added. I'm not sure if you are aware, but I do plan to allow players to be able to use lots of customized things ranging from more than just graphics to NPCs in particular. I wouldn't want anything being put up that illegal or that would throw the balance of the game out. Would you rather that I just left that to someone else who may not be so scrutinizing? Afterall, the playerworld is my responsibility, not someone elses nor is it fair for me to just dump that on someone else or even part of it.

There is something that really should have a backup feature, and that's Weapons. Since the only way I know to back them up, is to create a text file for each weapon name, go into the weapon on NC, copy the image name into the top line of the text file, and then copy the script and put that below and then save the text file.

Is there is another way to do this? I know classes are saved in the scripts folder, but weapons and database NPCs are not.

These things DEFINITELY need one click backups, because it's painstaking any other way. Not to mention it's extremely easy to accidentally reset a database NPC, losing all the stored flags it contained.

All the other stuff can be easily saved to your computer. Although I don't see why a backup to the person's computer can't be done, it's not like it would be a strain on the server any more than the person downloading the files by hand.