P2P worlds
 

Ive PM'ed stefan about this many times, and he (as usual) never responds, so i'll post here about it.

Graal2002, Graal2001, and NewWorld, all started or are still on, private servers that are unaccesable to players. This is so they can build without players actualy seeing it. The reason for this is simply that age old saying 'first impressions are always best'. They dont want to release one of their p2p worlds if its buggy, or too incomplete. And that I agree with.

But here's my dig.. we, the players, are supposed to do the opposite.

When we want to make a p2p world, we have to make it all offline and pray that it works online. And cant really add awesome content that would draw players. But the first time that that pw's staff get a chance to make those cool things, is when the pw is up for the public. Which is not fair to us, because the first time the pw is up, is when we get the most players, and is usualy when the pw has the least cool p2p content.

Not only is this not good for the pw, but bad for stefan because it wont draw players because the current p2p players wont be interested in it, and it wont draw free players to play it.

Im not sure what the solution for this would be.. wheather it would be to give p2p worlds special tests, to see if they diserve to go up on a different p2p testing list, like 2k2,2k1, and nw were\are. Or lower requirements for p2p worlds so that we can get up sooner as testing worlds, like TOT did.

All in all, it isnt fair to require a p2p world to do the same things a free world does and still be good, because p2p is supposed to be exceptional, and all we can do offline is less than exceptional.

I hope, Stefan, that you take this into consideration, because its most likley a money loss to you, and a major loss to players that could be playing excellent pw's.

I agree, maybe they should put an option for pw owners and there staff and server when they get past the first stage like the reviewer they get to test everything online etc.. than eventually get put up on the list , this would also help reduce the UC servers

but the requirements for p2p worlds shouldnt be as high, if a p2p world makes that much stuff, it wont be that good, unless they have alot of experience, but if we only had those types up, we'd not have any player made p2p ones.

<3 for Warcaptain.

p2p playerworlds are more or less dead before they're put up, their destiny is sealed, so it doesn't really matter

Which is why the P2P owners are given about a week or so (UC, I suppose) to fix it up. Same with free, I think.

Unfortunately that isn't true. No matter how good your stuff is a lot of people won't like it, wether out of spite, jeleousy, or flat stupidity. Though I agree a lot of bad builders really think their work is awesome. Though think of it this way, if the server is good enough to get put online you would hope that means it passed a certain quality standard at least, so maybe the real change needing to be made is that the quality standard for level tiling should be weighed more than the scripts for a p2p server when it's being reviewed, because frankly most p2p scripts don't work correctly offline so there really is no way to test them out thuroughly before they go online.

I think it's a good idea for new p2p servers to have time to work on their server online before it's actually on the server list for players to enter so they can fix up their scripts. Ideally when a server goes up the levels "should" be built completely, so all the attention could be payed to scripts in that time.

I think there needs to be stricter reviewing.. some of the playerworlds up now are GODAWFUL..

No content, a bunch of personal houses, bad levels, bad tiling, bad npcs, admin toys, stolen music, stolen graphics, stolen ideas..

I really do think that P2P servers should get a period of time on a private server to get everything in order, and ready for grand opening.. it's stupid to work on a playerworld for months and months, then come opening time, you have to blindly put it up, with 0 online testing, and there's probably going to be more people on your playerworld when it opens, then it will get ever again.

First impressions are very important.. heck you could make the awesomest playerworld, better then anything on Graal to date.. but it requires users to download new tilesets, or there are lots of errors when it goes online, or something.. then the players see a terribly tiled world, buggy npcs, and 99% of the time the first level doesn't even work.

If the playerworld passes the test of having a lot of content, nice levels, nice npcs, and a nice plot/story/whatever.. and it's p2p, then it should get maybe a week or two of a time period on a private server to make everything run like clockwork. Also, levels don't seem to be graded on quality.. but more quantity.. and if you're like me, you want quality over quantity..

Having a playerworld with 5000 levels on it that are nothing but scenery, isn't what I call exciting.. If the playerworld has towns, and quests, and detail on every level.. then heck yeah put that sucker up. If the playerworld has a bunch of empty levels, houses you can't go in, and silly quests, then give it a big thumbs down.

point taken... hmm

My opinion is this:

I agree 100% with Warcaptain and konidias. I have gone on several of the newer servers and seen crap levels, and not only that, but graphics that were used on other servers.

I am going to speak about my server.

PACHUKA gave me his levels. They now belong to me. I am free to use the graphics contained in his levels because they are mine now. That means, I am allowed to use his rainbow temple graphics, and so forth. In my playerserver, we have original signs. They haven't been implemented yet, but the signs that my graphics administrator created are very, very nice. They are designed for specific parts of the map. Now, not only do we make our own graphics, but, we're taking the time to make the levels the best before we implement quests. Thats the problem with most servers. They make 9847234 levels that are lousy, and then, they make these thoughtless quests where you go through the cave, kill Baddies, and get the prize. There's no thought, no nothing involved with those quest types. The good quests are where theres a puzzle involved. Some kind of mystery and intrigue that will captivate your audience. That's why I really liked Tyhm's airship quest. It was filled with SO many different things to do, and you actually had to use your brain to do them instead of slashing your sword endlessly.

Another quest I remember from Classic that I liked was Antago's Tower. Lots of stuff to do there. I think long quests are the best. I hate a quest where I'm done the darn thing in under 5 levels. It's stupid. Another thing, is I hate quests that have nothing to do with the plot of the server. It's like, I remember this one server, where it was based in the past, and what did I see? A quest for a futuristic item! LIKE, WHAT THE HELL? Have some damn cohesion, geez, will ya folks?

Now that we've covered quests, I think there should be something said about level quality. konidias mentioned that quality over quantity, and konidias, I couldn't agree with you more. Quality vs. quantity has been my motto for a long, long, very long time. I am so sick of going on these servers that have bad level linking, horrible tiling, and lousy landscaping. Take NPULSE for example, you walk along, and all of a sudden, the entire level goes black, or you wind up in the middle of the screen of an entirely different level unrelated to the ones surrounding it, or, you're walking on a path, and you'll see the path continuing in the next level about 10 tiles misaligned from the original.

Some people really need to learn how to make levels, and not only that, but learn how to link door to door levels. It's like, you walk in a doorway, and you wind up 6-7 tiles in front of the other side, and 2 tiles to the left of it. How damn hard is it to link those correctly?

It gets so dumb. I sometimes spend 2 hours on a level to make sure its perfect before I continue. Otherwise, theres no point in the level creation.

As for P2P, I think P2P servers are pointless. It's just a way for the owners and their friends to get account so they can post here and cause trouble for actual paying customers. Not only that, but I think Andor is the only decent P2P server there is. Graal 2001 is excluded because its the main one, but I'm referring to other "unofficial" servers. I think P2P people should get a test run, just as was mentioned earlier in this thread. It doesn't make sense to let them go online and have players see accidents that can't be prevented because the NPC scripters don't have access to a built-in NPC Server in the level editor.

BLAH!!!!!!

I could go on and on.

Anyway, I'm done rambling here. I hope also, that Stefan starts taking more strenous action upon how he accepts servers because frankly, I'm sick of trash on Graal.

Why? Because it actually contains some semblance of intelligent thought?

You're the narrow minded one.. don't you understand that people want to PLAY on a server when it comes out? Make all your scripts offline? How exactly do you script online things, offline? Do you just magically guess that everything is right? Are you so good at scripting online npcs that you can debug your own script by glancing over it? I don't think so. Put in a title screen or start levels? Why, if the server isn't ready it shouldn't be publically playable. I think you're just getting your undies in a knot.. I swear, I'm starting to dislike you more and more each day.. You're so full of yourself it's unbelievable.. I mean, I know I can be ****y sometimes, but geez..

Here's some advice.. stop acting like you're some pro playerworld owner, and stop acting like your server is the greatest thing since sliced bread (because it isn't) :rolleyes:

Thank you, konidias. :)

WTF are you talking about.. you're missing the whole point of the thread.. you're reading everything all wrong for crying out loud..

This isn't wanted because people are lazy and don't make things offline, it's for having a correctly running playerworld when the playerworld opens!

Not "let us tinker around online and make all our stuff there and not make anything offline"

It's more like "let us fix the npcs and things we have made offline so that they work properly online, and fix the online npcs we made offline to work properly, without having to open the server to the public and be publically under construction for weeks"

Woah, and look here, it's Soul Blade.

X wasn't my server initially. It belonged to Missing Link Merai, who's had the server up nearly a year. He quit the server and gave the server to me. If my material was good enough, yes, it would go up. So, give it up. I don't comprehend your attitude. One day, you apologize to me and we're okay, and the next, you're insulting me again. You should go see a psychiatrist. You're suffering from multiple personalities or something. Besides, you are not New World material.

I am doing a marvelous job defending myself, and I don't always lie. You don't know me, so don't claim to.

On a lighter note, shut the hell up.

I wish I could have had some time to work on stuff privately instead of it being all opened at once :(

They only time I have players on my PW is when ever I am on and it is usually the unsavory types that want nothing more than power and all they really can do is produce crap or here recently because I have put my JobClass system online...or at least parts of it as I get it finished.

ive read many of the posts, here are my replies:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you know what S T A R T L E V E L S are? It something you put players in while you test your NPCs. You know why you make NPCs offline, such as custom enemies? To impress PW people, show them what you will have when online. To hard to understand? Then oyu have already failed on your PW...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

startlevels were good at first thought, but bad when looking further. I said before, new pw's get the most players when it goes up first, which is when they should have cool stuff up to draw players, but if all they have is start level to contain them, no one will come, they'll say for a sec and leave. but if the staff have had a while to work on something to release, then they will keep some\most of the players that come to check the new world out.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BlKnight
Wow the lazyness is amazing....

Make all your scripts offline! Impress the PW Testers, show them what you will have...online, just rebuild the scripts. Don't want players to see? Put up start levels! Put in a title screen! So many other options, the one you people are thinking up are narrow minded...

As for what Lycia said, don't mkae me laugh...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lazyness? EXACTLY! many of the current testing worlds get lazy because of lack of intrest. and cant go down because they are a full pw and follow standard rules.. they lose intrest because of no players coming, they feel no one cares, and probably no ones does.
to fix this, stefan should offer PRIVATE testing worlds where only staff of the p2p world can go and play on. no.. im not talking about things like 2k2 is right now, where you can go on as ghost mode, im talking about how 2k2 was before, on a private server, where no one could see it but people working on it.

my suggestion, is setting up private servers, and makign it so the p2p level required is higher than normal p2p acc's, and then the only people that could be allowed on the worlds are ones with staff accounts, since staff accoutns are allowed on the world they are made for.

but since they are testing worlds, they should be reviewed for progress, so they dont stay up and slack like frolic and andor do. and can be removed if they dont do the right work, this will prevent slacking.

Sadly, that's what we'd LIKE to think. Old Valikorlia with semi-good levels and plenty of roleplaying had 10 people on, on a good night. This new val with completely crappy levels at the moment?

I've seen 81 people on it.

Difference being, Old Val was PAY.

There's also the fact New Val is in "shiny new toy" stage, and perhaps some people are just burned out from G2K1, but it still holds the same.

I think it's more the fact that people are bored with 2k1.. no updates, no nothing.. selling and buying the same hats over and over..

Even I went on some other playerworlds.. I haven't played another server other then classic, 2k1, and 2k2, for about 5 months. So I went around on the list to check out whats good.. Sadly I was disappointed.. but I mean, even SOMETHING new, is better then nothing new.

I've been burned out from Graal2001 since my PW has been up :p

I was hoping that with the releasing of my JobClass BETA I would attract some potential RPers...but sadly that didn't happen :(

stefan keeps forcing people to become p2p, but the p2p worlds now stink.
that is because the owners dont have the time that HIS worlds get to build. graal2001 was in the making for months, so was 2k2. and new world has been in the making longer than all of them.

so untill stefan takes action to make p2p worlds better, people will not upgrade their accounts, dispite his efforts to force them to. and making them better doesnt just mean adding commands, because 75% of those commands mean nothing for those building offline, but devise a way for the developers to build using their pw's online, without exposing to public, like all GO made worlds were.
this also would make things better for stefan, because more people will want to make p2p worlds, because they could get it up faster. but also having it private would make sure that they get it made well, to draw more players to p2p. and having P2P World testers, to check for progress, would make sure they arent slacking off and just using up precious pw space.
and all in all making sure that there are better quality p2p servers, which would draw more players to get p2p accts and keep them just the same.

That too.

sliced bread, haha, good one!

I agree with both Warcap, Koni, and Lycia...

i think, that most pw's suck because they just do, I mean, the levels, gfx, and npcs are poorly done and are half rate, and people don't dedicate or organize anything right for pws, maybe some newer ones will proove me rong, but from what I've seen, going on other pw's besides a cupple is just an eye sore and waste of time for me.

if the player world gets up, it should be because it has exceptional work and npcs and gfx, and it should be online for alot of testing and such. But man, I can understand why Stefan doesn't want anymore pw's up. Because they suck.

And pw's are p2p now because graals servers are not free.
you guys should be thankfull that you are able to even create a server on this game, do you see any other games that have a server or two allow player made servers, no, than why do people complain about their crappy pw's.

It just doesn't maek sense to me.

oh yeah, Soul Blade... isn't you positng on anotehr players account agenst the rules on graal forums? as well as ban evasion?

I don't think you have been unbanned for your rasist remark "Oh no, I've been Jewed" and your ignorant rantings on the bords yet.

true that, most playerworlds only want up so that they can show off their nick's in the staff list or abuse that good old RC program

I hope you don't think that of me :(

i agree with you totaly birdbird.

thats what im saying, that most of them are bad, but we wont get any good ones because the only good ones are the ones that are built online, ahead of time, away from players.

and you KNOW that is how it gets done. so you dont have to listen to players ask for jobs, and can get things to work perfect in online mode before you release it, because even some of the best scripters cant make it 100% perfect without testing online, aside from stefan maybe.

stefan could have much more p2p worlds that are way better quality than the ones now, if he only did what i suggested, and let p2p owners build in private worlds first, like GO sponsored worlds do.

of course you cant have 20 testing p2p worlds, so there could be a waiting list, and since pw's on the p2p test list come and go, there would be not much of a wait.
come and go=taken down for no progress, or being publicized because its ready.

Soluction to it all, Stefan releases the .exe that sorta works like the npcserver, but its not acessable and such, I duno

OR HE COULD ADD SOME NPCSERVER-LIKE ADDITION TO THE LEVEL EDITOR TO TEST THE p2p STUFF!!

Stuff like this has been asked for loads of times.

Hey UN Aint Like That
We Have 0 STAFF NPCS
Our levels are inproving with the work of staff memebrs
and we have gret NPCs for a non P2P server,
We take down any stolen graphics
we barenly use muci on the server
and 0 stolen Ideas

i doubt stefan would take time to make a version of npcserver that would run on all operating systems.
also that he would be afraid it would get stolen

but he'd still have to make a way to connect to different servers\ports.

Or, he could let the Playerworld Administration team run a p2p playerworld, and upload stuff for those p2p servers that want to be put up, for them to test their levels and npcs to make sure they work, and if they do, work on something else. When everything that they've tested on that playerworld works, then one of the reviewers can test it online on that private p2p playerworld thing, and send it to stefan if s/he likes it. Then, stefan can review it, and set it up online.

It'd be alot less work for Stefan to have to sit around and test to make sure everything works, and send it back to get fixed up if it doesn't. He'll just have to review it again that way.