Graal Forums - Spar Complex- Platoons.

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Spar Complex- Platoons.

respect to everyone checking this out and reading this

Sometime almost two years ago i was staff, one of the last things I was working on was the spar complex. The Levels, mechanics, and ect. This Idea has been in the back of my head for a very long time working out the schematics. But I had to leave the place I was living and ect so I guess the Idea never really took, and now that I'm back I don't have much say in whats going on. But I really wanted to put the idea out here. This is the message I sent Geo giving a brief rundown on what 'the idea' really is.. i wrote it sometime late last night but i think it kinda gives a good rundown on what the goal is with them. unbias skill based games, real skill based games.

i attached the message i wrote for GC.

anyfeed back-constructive critisism-questions, i'll be checking up on it regular.

edit: Not a Big List of Ideas.-----V

First time he didn't use l33t speak.

I'm looking for some discussion. Something constructive.

I only read the first paragraph, then scrolled over it thinking to myself... 'It's not worth it.'

Should summarize it more in your post rather than saying GC /denied you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supaman771 (Post 1595720)

I only read the first paragraph, 'It's not worth it.'

Should summarize it more in your post rather than saying GC /denied you.

What? lol... that's was what you got out of that?

\Firstly I'd like to thank everyone who actually took the time to read the entire '4' paragraphs, thank you for having the respect to do so and hear me out. Secondly I'd like to thank all those who didn't read the text document for not posting some incognito personal shot or useless gabber to downplay on what I'm trying to promote

Rouge: Thank you for taking the time to read the first paragraph, It has nothing really to do with the mechanics of the Idea or anything, but nevertheless, I don't see how anyone could even GET 'G Denied Take' out of it, but Thanks. Attempt to make things personal, arrogance and ignorance. Sure, I'm all for it, but it's the idea I want you to hear.

Everyone reading these posts, please, please take the time to read the text document and hear out the Idea, I've shown this to many of my friends on Era, hell, I showed them the idea years ago. Most are on board with the Idea. Give it a chance, and hear it out.

I took the time to read the whole thing and have to say that it was very poorly written and doesn't convey any of the ideas well at all. From what I did understand is that it would 'raise the playercount' and be heavily dependent on player participation.

If WoW Raiding has taught me anything it's that you're never going get perfect player attendance unless you turn the game into a job like those hxc raiding guilds. The fact you mention that they'll have to 'slave' over points is another reason why I believe it won't be fun at all.

A lot of your suggestions are unrealistic and have no backing on you would actually accomplish what was detailed. I.e: 'the games room where the platoons would battle eachother in various games. Not regular CTF types of ****, We would have to work on it and tweek it, tweek it, till it was of perfection that it was fair and extremly challenging.' Tweak what, you've given no suggestion of what these games actually are at all just that they're supposed to be awesome.

Re-factor your thoughts and write them out clearly and concisely next time instead of a messy txt file you presented to us.

If Era really wanted to be a true test of skill they'd drop the overworld, business and all that replace it with a "server browser" that players could join in and play some death-match, demolition, or some other ripped off CS game-type.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlplay4 (Post 1595773)

If Era really wanted to be a true test of skill they'd drop the overworld, business and all that replace it with a "server browser" that players could join in and play some death-match, demolition, or some other ripped off CS game-type.

Like Zone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlplay4 (Post 1595773)

IIf Era really wanted to be a true test of skill they'd drop the overworld, business and all that replace it with a "server browser" that players could join in and play some death-match, demolition, or some other ripped off CS game-type.

That was originally the plan of "Era iPhone" (renamed to "Sands of Glory iPhone") but Stefan shot it down because he doesn't want it to compete with Zone or something like that. My interpretation is that he literally wants us to make Classic iPhone with guns...do not want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P (Post 1595775)

Like Zone?

Ok so idonno if you guys reading this correctly.

For 1, battlegrounds? nothn like mmorpg goof stuff, I don't play Era, thinkin it is a cartoon usually. That's where I stop readed that other dogs peice of critisism.

Like the zone? no, no spawn repsawns n ect, n goofy lil games n futurusistic gunz. making it right, read it correct. maybe I didn't properly explain it, but let me clearify a few things..

Elite games, of heavily trained platoon teams, with a platoon leader. That they scrim together and practice techniques, and tactics. Battle eachother. Read the **** correctly, its a /tag, in the spar complex. It's not like revamping Era, plus face the fukn facts: Raids have got 'Crappy' for years now. Think about it.

I'm not sayin throw a way gangs, it's jus a /tag.

read it correct, i'm not thinking anyhting like any other game.

i dont play wow, i play era.

FOWLPLAYA/ and i'm kinda readn more of ur post fowlplaya, kinda sayn my text Doc, was all Unorganized Contradictions. N no I don't think deathmatching, n all that other **** you said Era would have to Drop Overworld. get a 'True Test of Skill', i think is what I was sayin in that text. N what you said before, though obviously nothing like battlegrounds on 'wow', wow, slave over points. wow, slave over points..... this ant no ripoff stop tryin to spin it that way goof

Read it, becuase points are a big deal, 1 point would be a big deal. You extensively train your team, for these matches. Battlegrounds are at the end of every season of games. It's like a half hour and happens once every Xmonths.

Quote:

Originally Posted by defaultaccount (Post 1595782)

Ok so idonno if you guys read this **** correctly.

For 1, battlegrounds? nothn like mmorpg goof stuff, I don't play Era, thinkin it is a cartoon usually. That's where I stop readed that other dogs peice of critisism.

Like the zone? no, no spawn repsawns n ect, n goofy lil games n futurusistic gunz. making it right, read it correct. maybe I didn't properly explain it, but let me clearify a few things..

Elite games, of heavily trained platoon teams, with a platoon leader. That they scrim together and practice techniques, and tactics. Battle eachother. Read the **** correctly, its a /tag, in the spar complex. It's not like revamping Era, plus face the fukn facts: Raids have got 'Crappy' for years now. Think about it.

I'm not sayin throw a way gangs, it's jus a /tag.

read it correct, i'm not thinking anyhting like any other game.

i dont play wow, i play era.

and i'm kinda readn more of ur post fowlplaya, kinda sayn my text Doc, was all Unorganized Contradictions like ur styles on Era, I bet. N no I don't think deathmatching, n all that other **** you said Era would have to Drop Overworld. get a 'True Test of Skill', i think is what I was sayin in that text.

What did you say in this above post. Your talking as if you are in the hood, yet Graal consists of 90% White Boys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilchaseofdoom (Post 1595784)

What did you say in this above post. Your talking as if you are in the hood, yet Graal consists of 90% White BoysLOL.

i play era...

man can this be a little more On Topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P (Post 1595775)

Like Zone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by defaultaccount (Post 1595782)

FOWLPLAYA/ and i'm kinda readn more of ur post fowlplaya, kinda sayn my text Doc, was all Unorganized Contradictions like ur styles on Era, I bet. N no I don't think deathmatching, n all that other **** you said Era would have to Drop Overworld. get a 'True Test of Skill', i think is what I was sayin in that text. N what you said before, though obviously nothing like battlegrounds on 'wow', wow, slave over points. wow, slave over points..... this ant no ripoff stop tryin to spin it that way goof

I never suggested your ideas were anything like WoW, I just used it as an example for player attendance. My point still stands that your ideas are completely unrealistic, don't sound fun at all, and are unachievable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994 (Post 1595777)

renamed to "Sands of Glory iPhone"

That is such a terrible name and also pretty pointless to release for the iPhone. If "Sands of Glory" was an actual server then yeah, it might be more appropriate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus (Post 1595794)

and also pretty pointless to release for the iPhone

I wasn't aware you'd seen the server :noob:. It was not Era at all. We weren't even using the tileset.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlplay4 (Post 1595790)

Yeah except without the terrain, futuristic guns, no 'buy-able' items, and not being held back by gold status. More emphasis on the "server-browser" aspect of it so you could actually create rooms and what not instead of being strictly limited to static lobbies and what not.

I never suggested your ideas were anything like WoW, I just used it as an example for player attendance. My point still stands that your ideas are completely unrealistic, don't sound fun at all, and are unachievable.

player attendance wouldn't be an issue because the players would actually want to do it. In the document I explain how there is real life schedules that players will have to meet, and I'm sure if they keep being late there are penalty. The 'team commander', rather platoon commander figures out with his platoon the best times and dates, ect. the games are put on another time that none of the commanders know. So attendance is important obviously, if you wish to continue playing in them.

It's just a /load level 1,2,3. I don't see how it would be that stressfull as far as having to be 'lobbies'??

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994 (Post 1595800)

I wasn't aware you'd seen the server :noob:. It was not Era at all. We weren't even using the tileset.

It doesn't matter if the server wasn't Era in its current state, what matters is that it was a spinoff of the server. Players from the iPhone server are offered some degree of familiarity if they would like to play the PC server, and it could and should be used for advertising. I don't have to see the server to know that "Sands of Glory" is just you wanting to generate a playerbase for a failed project that didn't get a release on the PC version, much like "Rudora iPhone" is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus (Post 1595805)

At the time sands of glory had a larger playerbase even when it was private. I would say it was successful and would have made it classic easily. My friends and I actually only upgraded to gold for the sole purpose of that server. And no, players don't need the iphone servers to be similar to graal servers. We all joined graal without being attached to a server, so i think other players can handle that difficult step of trying a new server.

goodjoke.

Alright, I'll Bite. , What Is Sands Of Glory? And How Does It Relate

I don't know anything about the iphone version but the server version was very cool. It was essentially like how jerret put it: You joined team deathmatch games among others and got points for killing. From there you could buy guns and other accessories. The last thing i remember about sands of glory was they were building some type of city and were going to have a tank or something of that nature. The server was addicting to say the least

Quote:

Originally Posted by papajchris (Post 1595818)

grats on pulling bored zone players, because that's all this server was; a poorman's zone

tl;dr, big time.
nobody's going to take fat ass walls of text like that seriously.
speaking from firsthand experience when i was a little tike with all the greatest ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1595822)

grats on pulling bored zone players, because that's all this server was; a poorman's zone

it really was lmao.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade (Post 1595848)

tl;dr, big time.
nobody's going to take fat ass walls of text like that seriously.
speaking from firsthand experience when i was a little tike with all the greatest ideas.

what the **** does that even mean? it's 3minutes of reading at most. Trust me it'd be worth the read anyways.

I'm missing something here, Where's the wall of text.

Wall text imo is equal to over 6 lines. anything that meets or below 6 is just a long paragraph. Lern two reed.

The txt in OP, had to trim it.

Quote:

Idea:
Well developed in the sense of how long I've played Era, and how the game mechanics have changed, and trends are born as far as Hardcore PKing goes on the game rather than hardcore lameing. Though they, are very modern to the direction Era should be looking towards considering some of the skill most of the players have on the game, only outlits really being gangs/events which are not skill based much anymore. My idea basicly is to revamp the Spar Complex to something completely diferent. Something like Spar Platoons, in heavily tweeked levels, and atmospheres to try mimic alot of what is pure skill
Games, when I say games, i'm trying to say that it's something like the best of the best epic battles with same sort of weapons. Alot of what it 'is' is up in the air

It breaks down like this, or really something like this. There would be a downstairs to the spar complex to where the platoonrooms would be, each platoon room has its own games room, where they can load most of the battle simulations against eachother. Then further down would be the games room where the platoons would battle eachother in various games.
Not regular CTF types of ****, We would have to work on it and tweek it, tweek it, till it was of perfection that it was fair and extremly challenging, (later I will go over some of the 'Games') the platoons have to run rutines, and practice tactics for each set of games, or simulation. Where they will learn to work as a team to defeat the other team, they will be only as strong as a chain to defete the other just as trained team. I'm not talking some elite pking party, I'm talking Elite Games Machines, that they can run this **** with there eyes closed.. This is meaning to be the ultimate pk grounds where real formula is made and math is layed down. By now you're probally thinking, 'gangs work fine' or that 'y we got gangs'. I feel the gangs, just as much as anothe person. Though, alot of the olbies would still log on considering this
idea, think about it. The playerbase would sore. It would not take the playerbase from gangs, they could sqab with there toon when there not getting raided. Not to mention probally most of the platoons are going to be people who don't raid anymore and wonder around aimlessly on era, looking for something like this to happen. Not though gangs. Gang's are
pethetic now, and theres no getting around it. I think alot of the youngerplayer base likes gangs still, and I do too, just I feel this idea, that I brought up many times before.. people would eat it up. It would be the ****. alot of people feel something is missing on Era, for the oldbies still logging in. This is the solution. Not a big time hogger either, as to how well it will be tweeked.

The structure would work like people would see an event message: EX: Soul Toon vs Gcan Toon $15 Dollar em, but there not actually in the Games room watching, just some sort of screen or level there in that sees the action, like how observer mode works, but you pick what team your watching ect. Probally how it would work when you die during the games. Before a respawn watch your team. Though I was thining of a few corporals and generals for BattleGrounds scouting though out the platoons, the future...

-Platoons, Thinking of there being a total of 7 platoons, 1 Platoon Commander each platoon.. having alot of scrims at first. PlatoonsVsPlatoons, but not worth a 'Point' for the match, probally just a swap player for player deal, or some other perks for winning. The point for the win in a Game, is the most important thing to every platoon. A point, should be looked at like a metal. Each point is very meaningful in the Games, and Platoon commanders slave to get these points, throuh running rutines with there tune, and strategies, tactics to win each Game. many platoons will be Highly Evolved Pkers, some might say, moving on 2 the good stuff, it gets a hell of alot beter..

-Matches, Many of the Games We all would have to work on extensively. By us at first obviously, but many of the future tweeks will probally be something the General, and the Commander does. The games themselves is the real problem. We would have to formulate very complex Games, unlike any ctf or raid level has been like, true tests of skill. Little of what I got so far is just idea's for the Games. Most need to be tested in feild for a while, need to devolop this as it goes as far as matches. Though one of the matches would be something like : 2 spawn points, both on either side
of the map (both toons), commander above his platoon. a black star battlefield, usually low grav or no grav. Battlefield is long narrow and just has large white squares on diferent angles to represent 'stars' and you are in space. pretty large stars though and just regular squares. Main object of the Game is to either fully 'freeze' your entire enemy force, or at least half of your platoon makes it not fully frozen, on the other side of the map in the enemys base. If this were a no grav event, and probably would be, the players can do 'rebounds' off the wall using simple physics, makin this one of the main tricks to master this and obviously your formation, though being useful while frozen is also another biggie. When you get hit once you are not necessarily 'completely frozen' completely meaning unable to move at all.
There is a % chance or something to that effect to where you get hit, and your limitations as far as rebounding, and or shooting, movement impairments. This is just a undeveloped idea for a single game in The Games, though it being undeveloped, might not eeven be used because it is impractical. what I'm saying is that alot of the matches will have to be made not thought of. I'm trying to say that this has to be as epic as possible. me and other top pkers of this game have to help work this out, figure this out and make it happen for the future generations of this game. Because I believe this might be the idea of the century. And I don't take all the credit for it, It's just the uncanniness Enders Game has with Era, period. Just the learning curve of this game, and the fact I believe it's some sort of social
experiment ****.

-Points, This would be the system that mix's things up a bit with the platoons, I haven't really worked out alot of what we could do with it, but probably as it comes into effect. Mainly, points does many things and anything, each point calls a vote to the entire victor platoon, or message to the platoon commander of the 'perk'. This is a decision of the 'perk' needs to be from someone watching the games, knows the platoons and styles weaknesses and strengths. His job is to attempt to push these Games harder than they are already, buy switching toon commanders, players, making players vote on new toon commander ect ect, it all depends on the situation he sees fit. Alot try to say this is unfair, but that is the point to push these games to the extremes. The Commander of thes Games is studying these platoons looking for a weakness in any extremely talented toonies (the players; not commanders) but there should be something like a ALL CALL vote if something extremely unfair or outrageous that all the platoons will vote and the General of the Games will read through these decide on what is wrong with the commander. But much is taken to account when you are Commander of the Games, you hold alot of responcabilities to the games, and what happens in the games. You watch every game, you are studying there stragies, and giving only enough feedback to help them enough type of thing. You have a broad controll over the Games themselves, but your eyes are set on the BattleGrounds. Though platoons have there eyes set on points, becuase they too, have there eyes set on BattleGrounds aswell.

- Battlegrounds, If The Games are a true unbias unique sandbox of technique and skill going hand and hand on so many levels and training simulations, tactics. BattleGrounds is where it all leads up too, and is the true chalanage.
A semester of the games is around 6 months we'll say, the top two platoons move on to the BG. The Commander of the Games, who has watched these platoons battle for the last 7 months, watched commanders fail and be beter toonies, and commanders who acell in what they do.. The Commander PICKS a Platoon Leader he feels is and was the best of all the games, to play as the Commander of BattleGrounds on the Opposing Force, the Generals team in BG, he than picks from the other platoons that lost to be in battle grounds and train them. If that was the Toon Leader of the Toon with the most points, than the second platoon with the most points Platoon Commander is on Alies side of BG. There will be a week after these piliminary activities are complete Battle Ground is much like D-Day in WWII, though mainly the idea. There will be two levels of Battlegrounds, but only one is chosen. It is only one game, and should not last longer than an hour. Depending on which
side wins, Many promotions are given. If the Opposing Force side wins of the General, the General remains General of the Games, though the Commander of BG becomes now the Commander of the Games which is a very rewarding promotion, against all odds, he became the victor. Being rewarded Commander of Games is a big deal, considering the power you have bein a commander. You can remove, demote, ect ect if needed too, and talk too to by yout superior General. These spots are given to those rewarding of the games, and he would undoubtably understand his responcability to
the games, seeing how he watches almost every game he can attend. to go on and train others to be as sucessful as you. Once this really starts getting going we can figure out where to go with it all. But that's kinda a half assed
rundown on some of the features it would have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by defaultaccount (Post 1595801)

In the document I explain how there is real life asexuals that players will have to meet, and I'm sure if they keep being late there are penalty.

Can u explain this some more please?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P (Post 1595919)

Can u explain this some more please?

I had a typeo that I fixed... "Schedules", real life scheduals that the entire platoon agrees upon, though the Platoon Commander. Schedules for scrim practice, rutines ect. Pratice time is always the same for each too. So that would be posted. Penilties would be such as getting traded to another platoon, or having extra long practices, sort of stuff like that, and of couse getting kicked from the games period.

The Matches scheduals are the ones writen in stone, probally like just 2 matches at most each week. So they will be posted, a week before the Games commence. I don't see that being a big problem as the toon is working hard to win these games, and if one doesent show up, the games go on anyways. I'm sure that player that didn't show up will be getting alot of heat for not showing up...

Like I said these are ment to be very serious, nothing casual. Only the elite of the elite get in toons, and they train to be more than that, though compitition vs other teams just as trained and talented.

Not to mention the point rewarding system mixing it all up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supaman771 (Post 1595720)

I only read the first paragraph, then scrolled over it thinking to myself... 'It's not worth it.'

Should summarize it more in your post rather than saying GC /denied you.

Same here.
Its no fun to read.
You want to scroll down to fast.
You should have make it easier to read and make your idea 4 lines or so
Per catogory

Headings and images usually makes me interested in reading things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1595822)

grats on pulling bored zone players, because that's all this server was; a poorman's zone

you had to pay for gold just as you did for Zone :\

Quote:

Originally Posted by papajchris (Post 1596088)

you had to pay for gold just as you did for Zone :\

:confused:

sorry its not fun to read. But it's still a mad decent idea so why cant you guys actually take the time to try to understand the system im trying to implicate.

uhh and the zone? nothing like that. read what I wrote and it don't sound like any deathmatching or spawn based skill games.

and stop being personally bias. I wrote that at 3am, and it's just a ruff draft, a run down to what it really is. Why keep dodgeing the topic really.

understand it. Think about it. than post

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994 (Post 1595777)

My interpretation is that he literally wants us to make Classic iPhone with guns...do not want.

Guns could probably directly be added to the current Classic iPhone and they'd fit right in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dnegel (Post 1596083)

Headings and images usually makes me interested in reading things.

The concept is very easy to grasp fellas. If you read though the document you'll understand the type of scrim system I'm trying to promote. compaired to raids that don't involve really anything close too the types of battles there would be in the games.. Raids now in days don't even involve much skilla anyways

Thi's isn't like the zone in any way, or any other server. It's origional, and broad. So obiviously I'm not going to go over everything I was thinking for it and draw cool diagrams and one liners. I typed that out and believe it should give you all a good feeling on what I'm trying to accomplish with it.

If you cant take it seriously, or can't read that whtout saying uhggg boredd, than I really don't care for ur input anyways nor would anyone else becase I fall asleep reading books honestly.

It's nothing I'm trying to say is serious. I'm saying it's something I'd bet alot of people would be a part of.

I still don't really understand the idea?
Is it just team spars? Why not just say "team spars"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1596090)

:confused:

reread your statement "poormans sever." When both would cost the same as gold was the same price when Sands of Glory was around :)

I read it and it sounded like a neat idea, but it would draw more player attention if it had headings. So they know what their about to read.
Example:
Rewards

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P (Post 1596327)

I still don't really understand the idea?
Is it just team spars? Why not just say "team spars"?

Sort of like team spars, but not really at all. More like elite platoon teams than what you might be thinking. I'm saying these 'teams' will be training as a group extensively to play against another team just as heavily trained in diferent enviorments and goal orentated games. They practice all types of tactics and reaction time.

-----------
Platoons
-----------

Platoons would be groups of 5-7 players, one being the Platoon Commander. There would be 4-5 Platoons. They train in there own quarters when they have time time. Example being the Platoon leader talking to all his toonies telling tryin to find out the best time for everyone to have scrim/training, training that helps for game matches.

----------
The Games
----------
The Games are the matches that platoons and or 'scrim teams' have against each other. It's what all there practice leads up too, for The Games. The Games consist of simulations with gravity/different environments and diferent goals. I'd promote having alot of different variations so they are always on there tippy toes during before the games, seeing how they don't know what type of game it is going to be. The two platoons battling each other. These games would be a true test of skill, tweaked to perfection. Guns/Levels/Ect. Everything tweaked so it isn't one sided or anything, just a pure test of skill through trained platoons.

--------
Points
--------

These are 'perks', though they could also be determent's for the winning team. Such as the example of a platoon doing too good might get a point perk being trade platoon leader with another platoon leader. Points are important for any toon, though the reward for the points wont always be a 'reward.' This will be another way to keep everything evened out and make sure everyone keeps on there top game, making sure they are working there hardest for the next games. The Commander of the Games determines the perk for the point. Points are for two things: Obviously as a scoring system. But to mix it up a bit too, to make it even harder for these platoons, pushing them harder.

--------------
Platoon Commander
--------------

A ex player of the games who won Battlegrounds against odds. He would have alot of rights in the complex. Watches alot of spars, trains alot of kids, helps them out. Studies there styles, look for talent.

-----------------
General of the Games
-----------------

General of the Games is the high ranking officer of the games, and oversees the Commanders Actions. Though, the commander, though battlegrounds, can become the General of the Games.

----------------
BATTLEGROUNDS
----------------

After a semester of the Games, the two top toons will be picked for Battlegrounds. The Commander of the Games leads a Toon, and the top platoon leader of the semester leads the Generals team. Battlegrounds is nothing like the games. It is the D-Day of the games. The commanders team is the Allies, and the General is the Defender. Because the general is Defending his spot, and really the Commander has trained his allies to this day.

Battle grounds will probally not be much longer than KOTH.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a shorter rundown of what I'm trying to explain. Also I'd like to add all these weapons / simulations / ect will be heavily tweeked to make sure it's elite battles simulations. Not some lame ass ****. Still I think my text doc runs it down alot beter.

Just No, and why are you dubposting the same super long thing x.x

I personally see this as an overly complicated fail idea that would never be completed to an extent to allow what you want. This is basically a long term multiple team event, but given we are talking about the same player base, no one would commit and there would have to be dozens of preventions added on and constant supervision due to the idiocy that exists on Era. You don't realize how annoying it is to even do a simple gang event with some of the better players and 10 minute fore-warning... half the people get there and say "OMG I NEED AMMO!" etc.