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-   -   A few ideas to promote growth (http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84635)

Rufus 03-24-2009 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1477326)
A group of willing participants needs to be organized first, so everyone can fairly discuss their ideas. That way the group can determine a "path of development".

I've also said that it would be nearly impossible to arrange and very unlikely to succeed - because people are so easily insulted, ignoring the long term goals for their own immediate feelings.

If a group of people were brought together, put their person feelings aside and brainstormed some ideas to promote growth or whatever the latest hot topic is, would it really make a difference? We've had many people try to bring the community together, we've had many different group discussions in a various amount of threads regarding many different ideas, yet nothing is ever acted upon. We are merely players no matter how good our ideas are, and there are sadly very few instances where the players that are not already close to Stefan are listened to. Our ideas really need to be supported by the people that are running the game in order for them to ever work, so suggesting is as good as it gets realistically.

Vima 03-24-2009 04:08 PM

A few ideas to promote growth?
Graal have to work with what it allready have!

How about starting to focus on the UC Servers!
The News Admin might help but the problem is really on the Graal people.
Everyone says that Stefan should do this and that, but Graal is really depending on their players to make new content on the servers. Constantly updating Graal Servers with new features.

The problem is, no one wants to work, sacrifice their own time, to help a UC server.
Which means Graal is stuck. No new servers are comming.

Crono 03-24-2009 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vima (Post 1477399)
but Graal is really depending on their players to make new content on the servers

This is the real problem.

Cloven 03-24-2009 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1477400)
This is the real problem.

Especially with the lack of incentive to doing so.

Vima 03-24-2009 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1477400)
This is the real problem.

So what do you expect them to do?
They allready "manage" 2 servers, isn't it up to US to work together and release and update new servers? Graal will do the rest of the job.
This is how Graal is now, it really consist of playerworlds made by the players.

DesolateRestriction 03-24-2009 05:33 PM

And now we're all going in circles. I'm not interested in defending myself or my decisions in this thread any longer, suffice to say that I, the original poster of this thread, decided that it was within the interest of the readers to explain why unkownsoldier was banned.

I'm interested in ideas, it's why I started this particular thread. I did not lose any interest in helping. I kept it short and sweet and I know those ideas need to be worked on before being implemented. The purpose of this thread was to get the wheels of thought turning again. But sadly we've nit-picked at each other to the point to where no one's on topic anymore (except a few who are repeating what was already said.)

Welcome to Graal.

xXziroXx 03-24-2009 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1477390)
You see, Graal's downfall started when they began treating Graal as such. Graal is a game, it is made up of the individual servers. The sooner the higher-ups realize this the sooner this game can be fixed.

Because none of the sever managers are advertising their game, aka server. Not even CJ are advertising any server, which is bad, but Graal Online in itself should be advertised as a development platform.

Stephen 03-24-2009 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1477390)
You see, Graal's downfall started when they began treating Graal as such. Graal is a game, it is made up of the individual servers. The sooner the higher-ups realize this the sooner this game can be fixed.

If advertising is ever pursued officially they should target players and developers separately. I think they should emphasize their advertisements on developers.

More kids are interested in graal as a game engine than as a game. That is, after all, the few features it has which defines it as a product.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus (Post 1477391)
We are merely players no matter how good our ideas are, and there are sadly very few instances where the players that are not already close to Stefan are listened to.

There are serious avenues of the game a group of developers could positively indfluence without administrative help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus (Post 1477391)
Our ideas really need to be supported by the people that are running the game in order for them to ever work, so suggesting is as good as it gets realistically.

If a large group of players, who have established themselves in the Graal community (if it ever gets to that point) ask for a feature, they will be more readily listened to than an individual player.

That's not the purpose of the development group I've mentioned, but it's a fringe benefit. The philosophy you project to me is one where you have decided that you cannot control every aspect of the game, so you might as well not try influencing or improving any.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vima (Post 1477399)
The News Admin might help but the problem is really on the Graal people.
Everyone says that Stefan should do this and that, but Graal is really depending on their players to make new content on the servers. Constantly updating Graal Servers with new features.

This is the underlying logic behind what I'm driving home - players can develop not just new content but better systems. So their games are more about the content and less about messing with some settings, or trying to learn a new help system on every server. Little things which will improve the community as a whole. God knows there's enough problems that, if they were fixed, it would be a breath of fresh air.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1477400)
This is the real problem.

But it wasn't a problem when there were fewer servers - we had enough players that, even if developers wanted to behave in such a way to make themselves disposable, another one would always better there to pick up the slack.

That's why we need new players and why people want advertising. We just need to make sure Graal Online as a game is ready to HOLD the interest of new players. Why pay for advertising to attract 100+ people for a week when you can work a little on the content, pay for advertising, and attract 100+ people for a year or two? Especially if they get their friends involved.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloven (Post 1477407)
Especially with the lack of incentive to doing so.

The incentive is the same as it always has been, I think. The big problem is the quality of ideas is very low. So there's not a lot of new stuff, and what we do have is... :asleep:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vima (Post 1477413)
So what do you expect them to do?
They allready "manage" 2 servers, isn't it up to US to work together and release and update new servers? Graal will do the rest of the job.
This is how Graal is now, it really consist of playerworlds made by the players.

That's the general concept - and I'm glad someone recognizes it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by DesolateRestriction (Post 1477415)
follow link if interested

I'm sorry to chide, but it's in poor taste to return to a thread which has functioned merrily for nearly two pages and revert attention to an already distracting occassion... Especially if you're going to end your post with a derisive and insulting statement? x-x

Googi 03-24-2009 11:50 PM

If you guys was advertising so much, just go to other forums and post about Graal.

Stephen 03-24-2009 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi (Post 1477521)
If you guys was advertising so much, just go to other forums and post about Graal.

I've actually been emphasizing improvement before advertisement.

Crono 03-24-2009 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen
More kids are interested in graal as a game engine than as a game.

There are more players than developers on this 'game'. The majority of the developers probably feel like they need to develop because of the state of the game, not because of general interest.

You gotta think, all the players logged into the servers, the hundreds on Zodiac, Era, and UN, how many are actually developers? Sure, some make a house or so for themselves, but EVERYONE wants to do that anyways. I wouldn't consider it a development platform, but just an appeal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen
That is, after all, the few features it has which defines it as a product.

Lately Graal hasn't offered anything features to define it, really. It has offered things such as cards, revamping the subscription service, observer modes, but they are all failed attempts. People tend to just forget about them and acknowledge the things that are actually useful like development additions, but the as a development platform it is far from perfect.

It's not a perfect development platform, nor is it a perfect game, but in order to motivate people to work on it as a development platform it needs to be presentable as both. People need motivation, and it is usually players playing on their servers that gives that motivation. You do not generate peers from a development community alone, and that, at current, is the weakest side of the community.

There are not many similar products offered to a niche market. Graal is a niche game that could be open to a relatively large market, but it seems like the developers would rather it be advertised as a gaming platform? Why? Due to laziness? Maybe it's because they're also lacking in motivation to develop it as a game, which basically brings us around full circle.

Stephen 03-25-2009 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1477526)
There are more players than developers on this 'game'. The majority of the developers probably feel like they need to develop because of the state of the game, not because of general interest.

I would like to think the majority of players have an interest in development, if only passing - and that their initial attraction was increased by the idea of "developing their own game", even if they never pursue it. We also have a lot of servers which support the trial community - obviously a community with goals that are less defined than paying customers.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1477526)
Lately Graal hasn't offered anything features to define it, really. It has offered things such as cards, revamping the subscription service, observer modes, but they are all failed attempts. People tend to just forget about them and acknowledge the things that are actually useful like development additions, but the as a development platform it is far from perfect.

We can cry until the cows come home, but you and I both know it's the oldest story on Graal. We have to take control where we have it and do what we can to improve graal. It's a hell of a lot more productive than just complaining.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1477526)
It's not a perfect development platform, nor is it a perfect game, but in order to motivate people to work on it as a development platform it needs to be presentable as both. People need motivation, and it is usually players playing on their servers that gives that motivation. You do not generate peers from a development community alone, and that, at current, is the weakest side of the community.

It's the only thing which defines the community. Without the efforts of a few there would be no UN, Zodiac, Era, or Classic. Obviously anyone interested in Graal from a development side would also be interested in the glory of a successful server. That's probably the most motivating concept.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1477526)
There are not many similar products offered to a niche market. Graal is a niche game that could be open to a relatively large market, but it seems like the developers would rather it be advertised as a gaming platform? Why? Due to laziness? Maybe it's because they're also lacking in motivation to develop it as a game, which basically brings us around full circle.

If we had a few high quality playerworlds, and the Gold servers were improved, Graal Online would be ready for advertisement prime time. All of that in mind, I want to avoid the politics of the administration as much as possible - that sort of posturing isn't going to help anything, it will distract people from the great goal, and will attract a lot of negative attention from all the wrong places.

Googi 03-25-2009 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1477522)
I've actually been emphasizing improvement before advertisement.

I don't think advertisement would accomplish much. I'm just pointing out to the people saying there should be advertisement that they can do it themselves without having to spend money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1477526)
I would like to think the majority of players have an interest in development, if only passing - and that their initial attraction was increased by the idea of "developing their own game", even if they never pursue it.

This is pure speculation. Everything that can be observed suggests that the majority of players have little interest in development. It's possible that they all secretly harbor desires to become developers (for the sake of developing, not for local server power, etc.) but we have no reason to believe that's the case.

Stephen 03-25-2009 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi (Post 1477554)
This is pure speculation. Everything that can be observed suggests that the majority of players have little interest in development. It's possible that they all secretly harbor desires to become developers (for the sake of developing, not for local server power, etc.) but we have no reason to believe that's the case.

A good portion of the players are trial. I said it earlier, and again now - their goals are probably not as defined. I feel a lot of gold, and even classic players, enjoy development on some level.

With that aside, the point is moot and distracting. The overall goal is to improve Graal in whatever way a group may see fit... not to convert everyone into developers.

MiniOne 03-25-2009 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx (Post 1477323)
Except that the servers aren't made by Graal Online, only hosted. Each servers manager should advertise their server.

To play that server, you still have to go through the Graal Online website and subscribe to 'GRAAL' not to the user's server, therefore it would be more beneficial if graal were advertised as a package. You've also forgotten about the Gold Servers, which are made by Graal Online, if I recall right.


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