Dustari's Decline
 

Dustari is in decline. All the Kingdoms are- that much is apparent. For whatever reason, for whatever cause, the Kingdoms are dieing, though RP seems to be have been dead to begin with- as dead as a doornail. Given the way standards have fallen in all the kingdoms, how activity even has dropped to nonexsistant levels.
The Holidays have a certain part to do with this current inactivity, granted, but the Kingdoms, Dustari especially, have been in decline for the longest time. What developments have there been to the kingdom? When was the last time you did any kind of RPing beyond saying "Greetings" over toguilds when someone logged on? When was the last time you bumped into anyone else on any other Kingdom tag in a store and started an in-character conversation? And when was the last time you saw Dustari's King (yes, beleive it or not Dustari has a King- check the GUI) on tag, or doing anything for that matter?
What has been done to spur RP? Sure, several of the Events Masters hold RP Events every now and then, but it's not our job to keep the RP of the Kingdoms alive- the Kings and Queens have three jobs within their kingdoms, three core responsibilities that all of them in the past have upheld, lest they stepped down or were removed by the will of the Dustari's public. What are these three responsibilities, you ask?

1) The ruling monarch is directly responsible for the activity of their Kingdom- there is no one in the Kingdom in a better position to motivate the activity OF the Kingdom. Thus, when the kingdom is in decline, it is the job of the monarch to to do something about it.

2) The Ruling monarch and the royal family are supposed to be the amoung the most skilled, versed RPers. They are in a position which makes them an obvious role model, thus they should be able to demonstrate superior Roleplay abilities.

3) The Ruling monarch is responsible for the constant development of their Kingdom, be it in developing Culture, information, or most commonly actuall projects for citizens of the Kingdom to partake in: new cities, expansions, etc. In life and most assuredly in Graal things can never remain static, or they shall wither upon the vine. Without change, there is no life.

Consider this food for thought, and ponder it: what is wrong with Dustari that is causing the decline, but perhaps a better question would be: what isn't helping Dustari to recover from this decline?

I did not read your entire post, sorry. Yes, I agree - the kingdoms are in decline.

[EDIT]
It is no surprise to me why Dustari is in Decline, for instance[/EDIT]

I was about to ask if you were a speedreader:D

I agree. Dustari has been pretty much in decline since Aftershock quit. :frown:

The Powergamers have replaced the Role Players, and I'm pretty sure this is the reason for the decline of Rping as a whole. I think levels actually make it harder to RP, and although 2002 was intended to be a better server for Roleplaying, actually 2001 probably was better.

The level system makes RP impossible as the pressure is placed on kingdoms to recruit members with the highest stats for that reason alone.

Exactly, which is why the answer lies in finding better leadership that will both incourage RP and discourage Powerplayers.

Ahum.. RP is dead, GKwise.. I don't see how you can just now dawn on this...

..Which is why I said it was dead along time ago.

I know it's been dieing, but there's always been a thin, gossamer thread of RP.

Now it's all truly gone

The key to RP is an equal system of play. Graal Kingdoms isn't exactly what I'd call "equal"

Which is why 2k1 worked so well.

Either way, just because it's dead dosen't mean that there's no hope of revival. The purpose of this thread is to get everyone's opinion, and to do some CPR on RP.

First thing I want to ask, is what constructive elements could be done to add more RP. I don't play right now so I can't speak to the quality of life in dustari in general, but I am curious about the topic of RPing in GK in general.

For instance, I really respect that people (from what I hear, I never played 2k1) played mages in 2k1 even without a spell system, and when a mage RPed a spell attack on a player in a war, they would RPishly respond to the spell (or if they were not that good RPers, they'd just type *dodges*).

I know back in the days of the Astri attacks on Dustari, we battled based on game mechanics, we lost the battle, and we RPed the consquences of treaties enforced by the Astri victors.

What I want to know, is what today, would be considered good RPing on that level? Back in those days, our king was lvl 5 and a few good warriors may have been up to lvl 11 or so tops. Only 1 or 2 players were able to break the lvl 20 barrier at the time in all of GK. I believe, this low level element contributed to kingdoms being a group combat system instead of a clash of titans between 1 or 2 players of each side who can destroy the entire enemy kingdom solo.

So how would say, an RP war be run today? I am curious because this is something that GK has not had in a long time, and I am not even sure if any of the kingdom leaders have a working answer to the question.
I ask this in a constructive manner, I am not trying to find fault but am genuinely curious if a working solution could be derrived.

Constuctive is the KEYWORD
 

Thanks Padren for inserting something constructive. Most often people tend to tear down rather than assist in the building. I suppose because it is easier to sit in some lofty place and criticize :) Be it so, let's see if we can rebuild these kingdoms 'constructively' and put aside our dislikes for others.

Thanks again,

Queen Zoe Sagesun, Dustari

Unlikely. Wait, wait, let me rephrase. Improbable.

You miscomprehend. Constructive dosen't always have to be wrapped up in a neat little package. Sometimes the most constructive thing it to point out the flaw in the system so it can be repaired. If there's a hole in your armor, you don't want to hear: "You know, we could make better armor if we'd only use some thicker gage steel". You want to hear: "Ey! Buddy! There's a hole in your armor. What can we do to patch it up?"

Such noticing and patching was the whole intent of this thread.

It seems that when you were Chancellor and still another rank later on, you were asked by several Kingdom leaders to assist in the rebuild. Your only addition to Dustari was in the stripping down. You made yourself the key critic of all that was wrong without assisting in her rebuild either as a kingdom or in RP. You continuosly compared her to 2K1. I understand your wish to go back to the past as it was something you evidently participated well in. It is far beyond my conprehension however, how you might be considered constructive regarding todays kingdom.

Gryffon, we all wish to live in yesterday at some point in life - but it is in the present that we live. Building a Kingdom to fit the present, as most people are in the present, is the major concern. It's faults we try to work on....but, not by saying the Kingdom stinks - rather by saying, we can make it better. It is like 'a cup half full and a cup half empty' if you understand that concept.

I would like to think optimistically in that Dustari can and will survive the critics and become once again a kingdom of prosperity and happiness amongst its people. I feel it is a matter of attitude and the ability to "want" to make things better rather than destroy.

As to Royalty, Padren and I are both seeking a qualified candidate to take the throne in the future. Several are being considered. Unfortunately, Anastasia could not deal with those who would criticize her attempts to build.
She mentioned to me that people want to be leaders, but when they so become, they "poop out" or better words, they sit back and do nothing. The biggest problem exists in those who want to be leaders without responsibility. Solve that and we solve the universe :)

Queen Zoe Sagesun, Dustari

Take the last piece of advice yourself: as for building: What have you built for Dustari? What more have you done to leave it in someway better than I have done in all my contributions? I tried to help, and then I was absent for a period, as school and reallife dictated. I returned, and saw that nothing had changed. Tell me, what one thing has changed, has made Dustari in any substantial way better since Lance was removed? What will people remember of you, will anyone wish to have you back as I wish for Aftershock's return? But of course he will not return, and if things continue on their current trend, Dustari will die. It's unfair to say that to critisize adds nothing, it's unfair to say it was mine or anyone else's responsibility to ensure Dustari's survival under their ruler- nay, it is the other way around Zoe.

The leader is supposed to be responsible for Dustari's survival, they are supposed to make it thrive, make it great. If the leader is ineffective, then there is little anyone else can do in the kingdom to rememedy this short of a change.

And so I ask you again: what, as Princess, as Queen, as Queen Mother, and as Queen again have you done to make Dustari better, Lance's removal aside? If indeed you are so effective as a leader, why is Dustari getting worse, not better? Why do you have to hide behind the defense that you, the leader, are not responsible for WHAT YOU LEAD? If it's the responsibility of the Kingdom members to keep the kingdom afloat, then why in the name of Mytri do we need a King, or Queen, or Prince, or Princess?

Before you can fix the problem, you have to identify the source. Before the new building can be built, the old must be torn down. To lay a better foundation, you must start anew or rip out the old. It's that simple. So now, show me, show me how you will be remembered, when you have no other ruler to hide behind- to hide your innactivity, your readiness to blame others for not doing your job for you? What will you do without Padren in the throne next to yours, without Ana standing at your side.

And also tell me how you can call the very people you admit to depending on your "pawns"- I refer, of course, to our good friends Samuel, Grirahan, and John. I'm waiting Zoe, so show me. Because I can not wait to see.

Gryffon Durime, Former:
Ambassador of Dustari, Head Scientist of Dustari, Cardinal of Dustari,
Head of the Council of Sages of Dustari, Senator of Sagely Arts of Dustari,
Duke of the Noble House Durime of Dustari, and Chancellor of Dustari

That was an odd way of describing it.. but okay.

As long as powergaming exists in Graal Kingdoms, RP won't work. It is as simple as that.

But to explain it a bit further... Take previous instances of how RP worked in Graal 2001... Getting hit hurts. You cannot beat someone with numbers, just manuvers. Fights like that are unpredictable and risky. Everyone is on an even level playing field and you fighting 3 people has a great chance of you being turned into Graalian Goo. Now on to present day Graal Kingdoms... two players encounter each other and regard each other as strangers. But player A is level 45 and right clicks player B to check his stats. Player B is level 15. Player A goes to player B and hacks him(with a weapon... not comp hacking) to death, ignoring everything he says because he stronger.
Because player A leveled up a bunch and really doesn't care about anything else except making his guy stronger, beating up player B just made him feel that his efforts were worth his time and he levels up more and beats up more people.

I'm prolly gonna get royally screwed for saying this... but the most recent Dustari raid on Kurenai (like a few months ago) is good proof of this. We were all landing on Samurai island and attacking it. Then "foxyrain killed loveableNalle...". Alright... something definitely wrong as I see the Queen and the Dictress(Wren) both smack in the middle of the battlefield. Then the war ended. That was like less than a half hour. Why did the rest of Dustari have to come if the high level women of royalty just ran into the center of the fray and beat up everyone for us? That whole instance pretty much killed off the rest of my will to RP on Graal Kingdoms.


Well to restate my intro sentence... powergaming kills RPing.

How many times have I said not to confuse RPing a war and fighting a war with ingame mechanics? The former is a fun, interesting struggle. The latter is invariably a slaughter and possesses all the poor characteristics that have already been pointed out.

The system just isn't conducive to RPing.

You can't RP a war. It's pretty much impossible on graal. You can't fight on waters, you goto another island kill there members, see them come back like 2 minutes later and claim they didn't die. You should set up a new island or something, 2 Islands, one on each side of the map, have a bridge and a place to make your boats and then you are done, Let the war begin.

Since I left!

On a bit more serious note;
When I was in Zormite and still a somewhat respectable member, RPing was nihil. We received the first Zormite shield, a token of honor, with a scavenger hunt.
I was surprised when I saw Ziro and his bodyguard-person actually RP in Bomboria. I RPed along with them, and when I got kicked out of Zormite I joined the Pirates. They seemed liked the only kingdom that RPed. It was terrific. I easily climbed up all the way to Captain.
But no, someone decided to kill the RPing off even more, and kicks Ziro trough some bug in the system. Ziro had to RP his removal all by himself - no RPing involved.
I tried to stay in and keep Ziro's spirit in CP and the RPing going a bit more. Valder was king, soon appointed MarkB [undoubtedly for cashmoneyz]. I eventually got removed for 'trolling on the forums' on one of the very rare occasions he was online.
Then I joined Forest. It wasn't active, but there was some sort of RP - a bit different then in CP though. Those few days in CP when Ziro was the head, were the best GK days I've ever had.
It seems that Forest has managed to combine RPing and a certain level of powerplaying. They won't allowed more than 100 members - and these are quite select members. Not every Jack could/can join Forest.
I believe that Forest is going on the right way, and all the other kingdoms are slowly succumbing. Which I don't mind. Perhaps if the RPing on GK has improved somemore, I'll comeback. Until then, hell no.

Yeah but if you didn't see "foxyrain killed loveableNalle..." you'd see "lovableNalle killed...." times most members of our kingdom...so you can't fault her for killing nayoko first. The question is how to fix the problem, and if leaders can contribute. How anyone can contribute. I agree with you that powerplaying killed graal, but its hard to fault the power players for being...good and defending their kingdom - on either side.

Holy crap, that's just ridiculous.

Dustari was amazing and strong, a while back. When most Dustari's Royals were active, along with the other good ol' Dustrians. GK itself somehow seemed to die, because there wasn't much to do/or anything happening. Zoe wasn't saying you or anyone is responsible for Dustari's survival...you've taken a leap there.

You know, it's pretty hard these days. You know what GK people are like.
Like Zoe said; Building a Kingdom to fit the present, as most people are in the present, is the major concern.
If you try to search for an RPer who can be civilised and able to cope within a kingdom... you'll find it's rare. Even if you teach them, they will have to be willing to learn. Most of them go "oh nvm" and joins another kingdom. :rolleyes: Agreed the leader is responsible, but not always based if they are effective or ineffective. Again, it's the people that makes the kingdom 'whole' as well.

Again, hard to find people. I'm sure Dustari will up uprise once again.

Read the end of her last post.

Not in a RP manner, I dare say.

In the good RPing days of CP, four people really RPed - me, Ziro, Ziro's bodyguard, and Misty. They made damned sure all others RPed. I'm certain that CP was the only kingdom were the majority RPed or attempted to RP.

I thought you were in Zormite? I seriously doubt Dustari will uprise once again in all its former glory - a half year or so ago, you were certain of a decent level of RPing in Dustari with the likes of Tseng, Gryffon, Ed, Satrek, etc. Kurenai Joukai was the best kingdom for powerplayers, Dustari for powerplaying combined with roleplaying and the others mainly for a 'career'. Now all the kingdoms seem most fit for powerplaying, except for Forest which seems to be great to make a career in, powerplay and RP. All in one effort. Dustari might uprise again, but will never regain it's former glory.

Before going to war, leaders should make some terms and regulations, such as no respawning, a place to fight, no unsticking and so on. If certain agreements are met before a war, it will be terribly easy to RP. It's such a simple solution but apparently nobody thought of it before. I have several times - when the Cyrilin family was making plans to invade the Crescent Pirates, I set up a campaign. One of the main rules was not to respawn and go fight again because people might accuse us of violating RP rules. I still believed in RPing back then.
When there was a big change of me becoming the leader of CP, I set up several rules that would ensure the possibilities of RPing when we raided a shore.

That's all good and well, but you still have the problem of a few high-levelled players massacring hordes of lowbies.

Did I say anything about rules and regulations? Yes I did. How about this one;
All powerplayers fight all powerplayers and all lowbies fight all lowbies! Ofcourse this seems more simpler than it is, but with very little effort it can be done.

Amazing, I came to you wanting to help you and what do you do? You call me a Racist. You call me a Woman Hater. You make up lies about me. Then you start to harass me and try to pk me with your summoned monsters when I am in peaceful mode.

You never did answer the question about roleplaying there. I hardly doubt a leader should run around going "LOL IT'S A GAME!" when someone is actually trying to roleplay with you.

You mention that you are ignoring the past to make a kingdom in the present. Last I heard the Dustari of the Past held 70% of all the roleplayers, owned Zormite, controlled Antora, and destroyed the Pirates, Elfs, Orcs, and even got Royality in the Samurai ranks. Maybe instead of making it YOUR way, which is failing I might add, why dont you LOOK back on history and ask for the help of people such as Gryffon, Tupper, and myself. We all led Dustari back when it had the statements which were said above.

Royality. I hardly call the Talisan and Sagesun families royality. That is just my own personal opinion. Both families are not of royal blood. Both families are simply thieves of the throne.

Dustari has a larger impact then you think it does. The current system has already ruined Zormite.


Funny, when I was a kingdom leader I roleplayed wars. Last month I remember getting on a boat with the Forest Members to retrieve some Forest Wands from the Pirate Island that they had stolen.

People dont understand that if you do not have wars then Roleplaying dies. The Golden Era of roleplaying on Graal Kingdoms started at the beginning of Alpha till the end of Astri. Which makes GK at the declining end of the golden age.


Exactly, I taught Chris how to lead a roleplaying Kingdom. Chris will roleplay and he knows to select a leader whom will roleplay.

Quite opposite in Dustari and Zormite where they just pass it on to the highest female.


Again, you dont know how to search. I came to Dustari's doorstep the other day wanting to help but Noo. Zoe simply wants to keep her little guild and her little guild house as that, a guild.

Dustari will rise again, yes this is true. Sadly it wont happen anytime soon and at the current rate Dustari is going, and I hardly call recruiting 20 level3294832423432s the rise of Dustari.


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Graal Kingdoms is flawed, the kingdom leaders seem to hate me. As when I go to them for help they just say stuff like 'AND IT"S YOUR POSITION HOW?'. They say that stuff when I tell them that they need to teach such and such how to roleplay because he's running around screaming 'ne1 gotz 1 of thos hamerz?' or something along those lines.

I have reported many people of decent rank whom can not roleplay. I've reported kingdom members who abuse bugs. What have the kingdom leaders done? Nothing but yell at me.

We can only look to Graal3D for redemption.

I thought it was. Oh well, your opinion anyhow. But you will never really know, if you haven't been in the kingdom at that time.

That's the old days. It sounds like that was proberly the most fun you've had on GK. I agree back then, the RP was more strict and people enjoyed doing it, but now it's 'whos going to be number 1'. You think you're certain, but you wouldn't really know, cause you were in CP.

I am in Zormite?
Again, things change. x_x

Seemingly for the worse.

Quite opposite in Dustari and Zormite where they just pass it on to the highest female.

What is your definition in harassing? Killing you is harrasing? Mmm. As I heard, you tried getting back into Dustari or get Zoe banned for 'harassment' to "get back at her" but when the recruiter/staff declined your request, you got pretty mad. Pressing on the false fact of Zoe 'harassing' you, ain't going to work.

Just because I decided not to use your stupid files and ugly fish heads?

You act like you were wanting to help, but instead, demanding your lands back. Like I said, maybe if you approached Zoe in a nicer way than turning into a hot head when the request for your 'lands' back was denied. You think you can come and go, returning to the game gaining back everything you had. Doesn't work that way.

Aw, hates a strong word.
Acting superior or trying to control the kingdom isn't going to get you anywhere. Trying discussing.

No reports to me. :)

I don't feel like quoting anyone, but here's what to say.

RPing isn't on Graal Kingdoms since no one gives the effort to RP. Many people say, "I don't RP cause no one else does." Well if you gather all the people who say that, you all can RP together, who cares if you're like 10 out of 100 people, at least you're doing what you want to do.

For kingdoms development, I can tell this thread is an attack towards the Kingdom of Dustari, face it, it's NOT your kingdom, you had your time, it's gone now. If the leader of the kingdom wanted you to help when you offered, he or she would've gladly accepted you, if not, haha, sucks for you. They don't want your help, so get used to it. Many of you need to stop doubting some of the kingdoms on GK, cause most of them have finished development of their new islands and what not, releasing shortly. So stop judging people or things when all you want to do is take it for yourself.

In my opinion most people play Graal Kingdoms not to Role Play but to talk to friends, and Just have a good time. It would make no sense enforcing Role Play. What keeps players on Graal Kingdoms is the fact that you can actually get better than your friends. It's a constant strive to get better and better while enjoying yourself at the same time.

Wow, stating facts makes me a woman hater -_-
I guess if I say 'Well the kingdom leadership is just passed down to the highest male' then that HAS to make me a man hater right? Amazing, your logic is simply amazing.

You obviously do not know the events that took place. I went to Zoe asking if I could help her. 'LOL IT'S A GAME' then she called me a racist and woman hater. I went to her just as a simple person wanting to help the kingdom I've been apart of for four years now.

Yet again your facts are flawed, Zoe was indeed harassing me. I recieved prior word not to engage in an arguement with Zoe yet she kept on pressing against me. She -wanted- a fight, but I stood there and I did not reply to her hateful words.

Get back at her? Right, she hasn't done anything for me to get back at her about. Unless you call asking to help Dustari getting back at her.

Amazing, you make it seem like I'm the ONLY person to make this claim.

Those 'stupid' files are your history rather you like it or not. Ugly Fish head has already been agreed apon.

Your memory is not up to par apparently.

When I was asking to help Dustari no where did I mention the Warhare lands.

Trying to control the kingdom. That's a negative. I could easily get a very high rank in Forest if I wanted to. But I dont, because Forest doesn't need to be helped/fixed.


You are ever-so-wrong. The Kingdoms belong to the server and the roleplaying community.

According to your logic, Lance should still be king of Dustari. So please put him back in. As it was Lance's kingdom before Padren abused a bug to remove Tseng. Our last conversation you said it was your job to fix bugs, so fix them already.

If one kingdom fails to roleplay then the -entire- community fails.

People dont understand this.

You are treating the kingdoms as some kind of guild, which they are not. Roleplaying Kingdoms need ROLEPLAYING LEADERS. You're just giving the current leaders their own personal island with a free server so that they can have a guild! Amazing.

Graal Kingdoms was made for roleplaying. It was the first priority.

Graal Kingdoms was supposed to be a roleplaying server instead revolving around the all-mighty sword of +66

You seem to be provoked the fact female are leaders nowadays. And hey, leadership isn't passed down by being the 'highest' level.

You also fail to realise lies cannot become facts. :)
Help? You know what the definition is? Definition of Help:Assistance
You were demanding for your 'stolen lands' to be back into your hands when you decided to come back. You can't just walk in and out like you never left.

LOL I love your innocent act. I doubt she would want to waste her time on a Graal Oldbie who's power hungered and thinks he can bring back the old times.

Ahahaha, actually you sneaked your way into Dustari's castle and was removed- then you refuse to leave the shipyard and saved your respawn point there so even if you did die, you would appear. After a staff asked you to leave, you refused at first until you got a warning. You started talking bad about Zoe being a bug abuser, her harrasing you, and yada yada.
You got annoyed that you were going to be put in the pillory after several warnings and just logged off. Next time you came on, you asked a Dustari Recruiter to add you in Dustari to 'get back at Zoe'.

You're the only one who's constantly bashing at Zormite.
I don't agree with your ugly fish head, along with others.
Your mind doesn't seem to accept things change. :)



Dot dot dot.


If any kingdom want your 'help', surely the leaders would ask.
Forest actually needs to be active.

Kay I'm sick of all this argument...takes so long to read x_x

briefly:
-dustari is dying, I admit that. I kind of feel bad for quitting now (not that it makes a difference, just that a lot of old members left Dustari or GK completely, since there's nothing to do in GK in general)

-powergamers are everywhere, not just in Dustari. RPing wars does work o.o I remember back when Aftershock was king, how everybody helped with the preparation of war (the woman helped with materials, potions, cept the femail soldiers) but I guess nowadays you can't/dont have to do that anymore because the fast people can just go by dungeon =X yes that kills the fun in preparing..

-um Zurk, I'm just going to be honest here. You DID tell me that she pissed you off and you want to get back at her for that x_x though at the time I thought you were just joking or whatever. But I appreciate you wanting to help but it's just that stop bringing up stuff like about your lands and how we owe you a crown or that type of stuff

I have a suggestion, don't know if it's a good one or bad one but: Instead of having one or two selected individuals (king, queen) with the most say and power, have like a council, like a group of people who are not all powergamers and are active, wise people. Those people should have a lot of power and say too, that way if one person goes inactive, there are still 'backups', and so their decisions won't be over-ruled by just one person. It's also a way of getting more ideas and perspective in.
^that way, people that want to help, join that council! It's like like getting rid of any leader or anybody... just getting more HELP from others. it also lessens the stress and responsibilities that Ana quit for

This is fruitless argument all that is happening is the empowering, the further bonding of two cliques that so desire to be singular.


The key here is the difference between a regrowth and a restoration. One seeks only to make the Kingdom good by restoring the past, and ignoring the present. That is wrong. The other seeks only to grow what is new, and ignore the roots of the Kingdom. That is also wrong. Dustari, and indeed all the kingdoms, must learn to take the best of both in order to survive.

And about a council, on 2k1, Dustari was ruled by a council of the Queen, Archduke, and Field Marshall for quite a while, and it was quite sucessful.

Zurk isn't the only one pressing the zormite fish heads. I was in Zormite before you even played graal, and this is just a mockery of it.