I like seeing Lance argue in topics, he always has good points :)

~Inverness

You don't have good points when you agrue only when you "debate" an issue, there is a difference.

I'd like to hear that difference; I stand by what I said before.

~Inverness

Wrong. You can blame that as much as you want...
1. Geo banned guilds for what? a week at most? it caused staff to quit, sure, but I doubt anyone left n-pulse over that...
2. the player count didn't start dropping till after you starting bringing back old n-pulse...
3. the kingdoms didn't matter... almost everyone was in the same kingdom, and if you weren't, you just hung out at that kingdom anyways. Again, I doubt many people left over the kingdoms... it just made a new 'main' level, and PKing level (kalton, and kalton gates)
4. Introduction of p2p had a little bit to do with it... maybe it stopped like 1/4 of the people from playing... but it does not explain the steady drop in player count over time

You can blame whatever you want... but the cause of n-pulse's decline (I believe) was the distruction of the n-pulse community...
I'm not going to say what I think caused the distruction of the comunity... maybe it was all the fights, maybe it was something else... but I believe that n-pulse had such a strong community, that it could have been nothing but blank levels, and could have stayed strong. But something changed that.
There was like 1 week where me and MG/Moonie argued a whole lot, but it was because I felt betrayed, and backstabbed... because I had tried to help n-pulse, but MG used propaganda to try to make me look like some prick. But anyways, I haven't posted anything even involving n-pulse in a negative fashion in over half a year...
It is his fault... If he was smart, he would have left any PW names out of it, and said something like 'This is an example from a public PW, showing how they have organized their RC rights. Good job guys, you know who you are'
Or something like that.... then this arguing couldn't have happened.
I don't agree...
I think the difference is more in emotions...
you show emotion when you argue... you don't when you debate

Also, a debate is more controled... an argument is seen more as spontanius (sp?)

The supervising comment was more towards him. I didn't even bring your name into this since our last discussion on the N-Pulse Forums.
MG brought your name into this and it was inevitable since you two are partners and do things together.
I know you did a bit more than supervise because you actually spent time on your player account and provided N-Pulse with
an interesting town.

I referred to a simple thing he used to say on N-Pulse that he said to someone in this thread.
I said a similar comment on classic back in 2002 and was banned for an extensive period.
What is the difference between me saying it and him?
He is pwa so people may assume that the entire community is like this and probably won't return. MG, right now in his position has some influence on Graal and he shouldn't be recommending others to quit and go play other competing products.

Read the bolds and consider my point of point of view please.
As for the sarcasm. I don't intend to be sarcastic. I prefer to be fairly straight forward with my comments. You know me better than that. :/

If the shoe fits, wear it.

You most certainly don't have good points when you run away from the truth.

I completely agree with Moon God.
Look at Zone for example, if we had not been so foolish to let someone unqualified had RC level 4, it would not have been wiped :(

Hmm? Dell having level 4 RC was within those PWA rules, and it didn't stop the wipe.

Refer to this:
This is why I replied

Once again, Lance comes out with another good point. :)

the same point I made on page 4, and MG answered on page 5...

You were not replying to Loriel.

I was.

Wow, lookie there. Nine pages of nothing but BS. :)

So you decided to buy a Graalonline playerworld?
Welcome to the world of playerworld managment, we are restricting your rights as a server owner so you cannot do anything as you please. As it stands right now, all upcoming playerworlds have to pay. However, the previously online playerworlds receive 6 months online time before they have to pay, even though they're worth staying on Graal's paid schedule, they have to pay our nice little fee of 100 dollars as well.
If you don't, we'll get out our bamboo chutes and shove them up your fingernails.

It's my favorite quote!

I suppose you find that amusing do we?:rolleyes:

I certainly did. :)

Now how about setting some rules/guidelines for PW Renters.

Like are they allowed to unjail someone that was being abusive in mass messages simply because they think the player can't be unjailed without a NPC script in the jail that releases them? x.x

When you rent a hotel room, you don't work your ass off, put up with a bunch of idiots, and keep the hotel room UP do you?

In otherwords, can the Renter interfere in the daily operation of the server, like unjail people that the asst. manager had just jailed, and things like that...

All Graal rules apply to EVERYONE and the PW Rules apply to ALL PWS except Graal ran PWs like GK and the Original Classic server. Unixmad and Stefan govern company run Servers. Now I'm sure if you refer to all the rules in place you can answer that yourself.


Local management is to govern themselves according to the rules already set by Graal. (Graal and PW rules) internal strife between the payer and his Managers are to be worked out between them. The PWA is not here to settle arguments between local Management unless it gets out of control. If you make it necessary for the PWA to step in and make decisions for you then nobody is happy and is not our desire for us to have to do this.
Before you take Management of a server in the case the payer and the Manager are not one in the same, make sure you can get along with this person and he/she follows Graal rules as you do.

We could go on all night on what if this or that but it all boils down to the same thing. Manage yourselves within Graal rules and don't make it necessary for the PWA to step in. For the case you mentioned and please no more what if's, the payer is breaking Graal rules if the Manager or Admin Jails or bans for a justified reason and he/she decides to release him/her just because they want to. This is a valid complaint and needs to be brought to the attention to the PWA. Payers and All Staff have to follow the same rules, just because they are the payer doesn't mean he/she can ignore Graal rules and they are ways we can deal with Managers and payers alike if it comes to that. This is extreme and hopefully things like this won't happen but if they do we are prepared to deal with it.


Note:
Sorry PrinceDark I was in the middle of extending my post when you posted but I hope this answers your question. We have already once had to take exteme measures with a very abusive Payer and it is not something we relish doing. :\

The answer is obvious. Unfortunately there are some that will do foolish things just because they don't like a certain staff member. This case being a good example.
I'm glad the rules apply to everyone. Hopefully nothing like this occurs again. :)

ok, I wasn't sure where to ask this question, so I thought I would post it here, and wait for Spark to reply
;)
since I think it's an important question that others might have wondered as well.

In the case that a PW has a renter, as well as a manager, what happens if/when the playerworld goes public? Since public PW's no longer have to pay, since they were paid for once when they went private, there is no need for the PW renter... does the renter become a second manager? or does the renter lose all his power, since there is no money issue involved now...

I just wanted to know this, since it seems like an awkward possition which will eventually come about... and it might be good to just state what will happen in that case now, instead of trying to figure it out when the time comes.

Yes actually...

Nothing, you cannot remove or fire the payer nor demote them; they are in it for the duration of the life of Playerworld. They are and always will be a lv4 RC on the Playerworld, so you may want to think about this before you decide to let someone other than yourself be the payer. Whether they take an active role at any time on the server is best decided beforehand and not afterward because when push comes to shove the "payer" wins out over any Manager.

Only the PWA can remove a payer and like I said before this is an extreme case and would only be a last resort. Just because you may go to the Classic tab and are temporarily not paying and see I said temporarily not paying doesn't mean you can just discard them like a used up old paper towel. Payers have the power on the PW because they after all have shelled out money for it. Payers can remove Managers but Managers cannot remove payers at any time. You can wait for a response from Spark but you really won't hear anything different from him, so it's up to you.

Lol, Well yeah it was.

If you want to give LVL4 to 8 people, just have 8 Admins, or something.

huh? Did you even read the rules??
lol

I don't understand the point of having a payer, as well as a manager... (when the server is public)

1. is Zone paying now, since they are private?
2. did any public PW's let someone, other than the manager pay for keeping them up? if so, the person who paid should be incharge, right?

Such as, MG, did you pay for n-pulse? If you did, then that would make you the payer, and so you would get a level4 RC on n-pulse, and be incharge over Ducati, and DS....

Wasnt Geovannie the original owner of npulse?

not the payer...

MG was the one to pay to keep it online last year (I'm assuming so... not 100% sure) and so if he was the payer, then that would mean he would still be incharge over Ducati, and DS.... (the current managers)

No, Npulse is on the classic tab, and has not had to pay yet...so there are no payers as of yet. I dont think anyone on the classic tab that were up before this pw renting came about has had to pay anything yet.

I think the way it works is if you get kicked off the classic tab, you have to pay...and if you enter the classic tab from the third tab, you dont have to pay while you are on the classic tab, and those already in the classic tab dont have to pay as long as they stay there?

I thought that classic servers only had 6 months free, then they have to pay at least once, even if they stay public... just to make everything fair...

So public servers got more than 6 months free? Also, I think that private servers that were up before the payment system started got 6 months too... but if public servers didn't have to pay yet, I doubt the private ones have had to pay.... while the rest of us are paying... and they get to allow normal accounts online as well, and not even have to pay?
:mad:
not fair I think

Oh yea...I think you are right about the 6 month free, I forgot about that, I am probably totally wrong.
I dont think Npulse has had to pay anything yet, I know I didnt, and I am pretty sure Rai didnt, so I dont know, I am confused as usual, lol

Stefan is running it.

wtfsking;reg;awehr;he
why do some servers get so much special treatment?

Before the PW renting came out, there was private servers (Oasis, Doragon Koden, etc). They had/have to pay after 6 months. N-Pulse, Era and those classic servers get it for free.
Because Stefan sees that it might cause Graals playercount to raise.


I am a PW manager, and I do not think those rules are so bad...

Let me fix that for you..

Nothing wrong with that, just pointing out the truth. :3

Of course...It's his job, and I think he is like every other person; he want's to live a good life. You wouldn't mind some extra money would you?

Company run servers always have you know that. As far as me and Npulse, I was prepared to pay after the 6 months but it has never come to that because I think and this is not a proven fact , it was supposed to start this month but this was never confirmed one way or the other. Now even if I had paid lets say , when I gave up Npulse I gave up all rights to it including myself as payer because Rai was prepared to pay himself. But as of yet no one on the Classic tab has paid to my knowedge, but catch 22 comes in here because if you are on the Classic tab you don't pay. I assume and this also is not a concrete fact , that if you come off the Classic Tab you will be required to pay. So this would be an incentive for the Managers to keep themselves on the Classic tab to avoid paying anything at all.

This is only my opinion... i think that if it is your server.. you should be able to give anyone any rights that you think they need. I do kinda agree with the Guest RC's but that is another thing.