G-Yosi
a classic playerworld can be made very good, it doesnt have to be like 2002 or the new graal 3D to draw people...10-20 people??? You better look at the server lists again, and actually listen to people, alot more people than that like the classic servers, and style, which doesnt mean they cant improve, because they can...I am not saying anything about going backwards, it is just that some of you refuse to see what I am saying

Soem playerworlds should be shut down, but NP and Era r0x0r..

I never said a simple playerworld couldn't be made good just the chances are fairly nil. This community is void of many talented graphic artists and scripters. What we mostly have is an over abundance of level designers which fills this void. You're not going to get a better server with just level designers alone. But again, what do I know? You (and MG) seem to have all the answers. :rolleyes:

If Stefan and Unixmad's plans are to actually market Graal then things are going to have to step up a level. Graal2002, despite it being a company run server, is the first step in many that will probably be taken. At best, Graal fits in the nostalgic genre. I do not mean it in a harsh way, by the way. I really want to see Graal go mainstream. I want to see commercials about it and so forth.
My standpoint, again, is that increasing standards and quality will help bring in fresh talent which may possibly balance the community a little better. Do you know how hard it is to find someone with great scripting abilities that is willing to help out or someone that has graphical talents that are almost on par with commercial products? If you know of anyone that fits either of these descriptions and is looking for a project to work on, then by all means, tell me.

I have noticed there is a big need in the graphical area of Graal too. Probally why I am learning.


I don't see why more people don't learn GScript. It's not hard and it is fun.

its hard -_-

this is exactly why I said the classic PW's are failing, and are not of the greatest quality

I dont know who you think you are, I never said I had all the answers, nor do I claim to, and neither does Moon god, we love graal just like the next guy, and have a right to our opinions on things, even if we dont agree...but I guess only a select few should have this right without anyone saying anything negative to them?? Yea, I thought so........
You dont like my opinions, tough..get over it.
I have tried to prove a point here, that in their arguements other people have proven for me, so it works for me....some will understand it anyway

And a very good point you proved moonie :)

1) Lot of stupidity going on. Saying "Compare the player counts of Classic and 2K2" is foolish because it ignores one major factor: You have to pay more to play 2K2. Of course there're gonna be more Classic players than Gold players. But that doesn't mean we need all of the Classic servers, and it doesn't mean that we have to keep the Classic servers forever.

2) MGess, you say that the Classic servers can be good. This is true. If a hundred talented scripters fall out of the sky and agree to work for you.

This will not happen.

Realistically, they're not gonna progress. And realism is the basis on which decisions like these need to be made.

...?
Kai.. not all scripters demand the best of the best and only want to work on Oasis and 2230 and stuff.. some of them actually LIKE the classic PW's and make some pretty good stuff.

there isnt any "stupidity" going on, just opinions from what I can see, and a discussion on what is happening
the classic servers could be good if there werent so many, there would be more staff for the ones that remain, and the ones that remain should be the best of the best, even if that doesnt include Npulse
I dont know why you say they wont progress, its not like they cant, I dont think it takes that many scripters to make a really good pw, if it does, graal is in real trouble ;)
And what decisions? You need someone to actually look at these pw's before any decisions can be made, but where are they? The same place the people are who watch over the mods on this forum? Noone cares about the classic servers, it is obvious...I would help graal in anyway that I could, because I love it, but I just hate to see "all" of the classic servers go, because there are still alot of people who like them

Stupid opinions. They're based on stupid attempts at statistical analysis.

Agreed. Some of them do need to be removed.

They won't progress because they have bad staff. Bad managers, bad scripters (if any), bad level-makers. Hell, they're as likely to get worse as better. And it doesn't take so many scripters, but it generally takes more than ZERO.

Decisions over whether or not the Classic servers should be removed.

So, like, one or two maybe? To share between twenty servers?

MoonGoddess, you should check out your own server some time. Go in some of the player-made houses and see what is in the levels. I went in a few, I saw a gentlemen's club in one (strip club with a long dancing area in the level), I saw talk about playboy, pickup lines for girls like "nice legs, what time do they open?", and overall, the majority of the playerhouses seem to have sexual and player harassment referenced everywhere. N-Pulse is far from perfect.

You keep insisting these playerworlds have a high playercount because no rules are enforced, well you're not doing much of enforcing them yourself. You say classic players don't like change, yet Era is different from normal playerworlds and people flock there.

Even on your website MoonGod states:
"I do not want Players to be forced to be in a Kingdom or Class when getting on Npulse , not all players want to do this kind of thing , so to appeal to all players and not just some , Main Npulse will not do this but some of the Islands will."

If you care about appealing to all players, then you need to stop trying to live in the past so much. You're playerworld is appealing to a very small amount of players.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa...that stuff you speak of was put up by Geo or Geos Girl, and was removed, if any of it is still there, I would like to know where. And you saying that the majority of the playerhouses had sexual content in them is a lie, unless it was long ago when Geo had it. I fully enforce every rule, you can ask any player who plays there, or any staff member.
Yes, we have few players, but they are decent players, and we have fun, and they are people who like the classic style, and I am not changing it, I will update it, and make it look better, but I will not change it...I put alot of work into it when I took Npulse over to bring classic Npulse back because the majority of the players wanted it, but they got mad because we didnt bring all of it back and left, some of the levels and stuff were just too bad to bring back...cant win for losing...I am not trying to achieve a high player count, if I can make a few people happy, then I am happy...and I know now that Npulse will be shut down...

If anyone finds something offensive on Npulse, or something illegal, all they have to do is tell me, and it will be removed...most of the old playerhouses have been removed, but some still remain, and it is always possible that I overlooked something when deleting all the bad stuff when I took it over...before you say something like that Konidias, you should have looked recently.

I don't think I'm anyone real special, honest! But everytime myself or someone else like Konidias or Kaimetsu post points that hit hard on playerworlds, you and MG seem to be the know-it-alls and know exactly what players want and even more so, what new players would want. Fact is, probably none of us really know what exactly players want other than stuff that is not easily equated to dog crap. I have nothing wrong with your opinions, I'm just pointing out what I see the problems are with them when aligning them with Graal's possible future.

If you love Graal as much as you say then you'll suggest ideas that will bring in fresh players that have never heard about Graal or if they have before will make them interested. I know I piqued the curosity of a few persons on another forum when I showed off some of what I had been working on. There was at least one person that knew what it was and was amazed at what was now possible. Had I posted something from a playerworld using standard everything, they probably would've turn thier noses up.

Fact is, the players don't even know what they want exactly. If they knew what they wanted then it would be easy to make a popular PW. All they know is they want something good and most likely original.

How and in what post am I making myself a know it all? Most of what has been said here lately is Moonies opinion, I have my own and they are NOT always the same so please REFRAIN from grouping both of us as one opinion. In a lot of things we do but NOT always. I don't have a problem with any playerworld and what direction they take and I HAVE NOT stated anything to the contrary. The only thing I have stated here is the concern of ALL player worlds following Graal Rules, so try scrolling up to what I said. The issue Moonie and you guys are debating I have stayed out of; I have nothing to add or say about it. I have not stated my opinion on it nor do I intend to, that is between Moonie and you guys. Like I said my concern and what is expressed here by me is the lack of enforcement of the Graal rules on many of the player worlds not the direction of Graal. I myself won't comment on it till an official statement is made from the powers at be.(meaning Stefan, Unixmad. or Nem)I see no point in debating it here as you guys are till the EXACT direction and what will be required from all player worlds is set . Then I may or may not comment, depends on whether it will do any good or not. I have better things to do with my time than to waste time posting an opinion that won't change a thing, what would be the point? I am just a person who follows rules and does things for my playerworld, I have things in the works for Npulse that are not currently on Graal nor will I be foolish enough to discuss them here and now. If I can get done what I want done then it will be online and something different for Graal, if not then you won't and I cannot be held for promises I didn't keep, because I am not going to make any. And Konidias it is apparent you have not been on Npulse for at least a year and a half, those things were NOT put on by us and were taken off soon after we got control of Npulse , so if you want to complain at someone talk to Geo about that.

And original != default graphics and default molds that the majority of playerworlds use. By molds I mean that most playerworld all use the same idea just with different twists or applications.

My somewhat sarcastic assumption was based upon you and your wife's responses to many things including to Kaimetsu's posts in other threads. Yes we all have opinions and therefore we will all disagree with each other. But there is a very fine line between opinion and pushing opinion as fact and many times they are interpreted as the later because of the way a person is stating it.

Before you assume anything , If I am posting fact I will back it up from where I got it from for all to see , if not it is an opinion will will be stated as such.

Its all in the way you post that leads to these interpretations. We're all guilty. But there have been a few times where you or your wife (or certain others for that matter) make yourselves out to be some kind of final authority or that you represent Graal as a whole in some fashion. Again this is something everyone is guilty of doing at some point in thier lives. I'm not trying to create trouble, to be honest. I just feel like putting down a card in my hand to see what happens next rather than throw them all down on the table.

All I have ever done is speak from the long time posted Graal rules and if I am not speaking from the Graal Rules I speak for myself and never have represented myself in any other manner. If you read something else in my post then I am afraid it is your error and not mine. If you have some doubt try asking for a clarification of a post , I will be happy to explain my postion further if needed. I have never represented myself as any final authority on Graal unless it is on Npulse where I am. If a player dissagrees with my judgement they are always free to take it up with the PWA and they will have the final say in it. I am not guilty of what you speak and is not something I have ever done on Graal maybe you have but I haven't. If you think I have spoken for Graal (other than what the rules state), ANYWHERE on this forum , then I challenge you to produce it here and now.Otherwise speak for yourself and not others, it is something I have always done. I don't make policy for Graal, I just follow it and enforce it when it is nessary.

You have a really odd concept of time. Seeing as how I went on Npulse this morning and saw the stuff that I mentioned. :| I also saw a huge dragon in some guild like house that was obviously taken from some other game or something.

Really? and on what levels were these on? If those things are on without our knowedge then I will appolizge , some houses could have been put up by the Lat Chief and it is something I will look into tonight. As far as that Dragon , the guys swears he made it and he was questioned about that a year ago. That is the Dragon Knights guild house I believe you were refering to and since I have no real proof it isn't made by him then how can I deny it? We have caught images taken off Windows Themes before , trying to be passed off but in this case I have no proof to disprove it.

And of course, instead of a certain person enforming me in a decent way, they have to put it here in an attempt to make me look bad because I say I strictly enforce the rules.
That stuff has been here a long time, and I have missed some when I was removing stuff I see, do not try to make it look like it was done purposely :(
I am not trying to attack anyone here, just giving my opinions on certain issues, and things that I have seen...if there is a problem with something on npulse, I appreciate being told, but not on the open forum.
I am going through and checking every playerhouse now.

He found it on a clipart website, never made it.

(I remember the convo from my DK days)

-_-

The clientr can be written by the server, read by the client...this allows prevention of clientside editing of client strings. By using only client strings, which is basicly the only thing possible to test offline, when going online it may work correctly but it is a massive security risk, as they can be potentially edited...

As for the one level thing...it may be possible, but with how efficient the graal engine is, it would require a super computer to run. Now on the other hand, using a gmap could possibly be considered one level, but you do still need more then one level, because the width and height of gmap needs levels to be the same width and height, as far as I know.

Once again, using script, I don't care who you are...I doubt it will be very fast.


I agree with allowing Oasis to be online, as it is (from the screenshots) above all the other ones.

Few more things..Kaimetsu, that requirement should stay. Assuming you made the most amazing PW in one level, don't you think the PWA is able to see how great you one level PW is? That limit is there only for the average joe, the people who are capable but not gifted (as far as I see it...). If you make the most amazing thing ever, clearly you could go over the PW team and talk directly to Stefan...I think you are saying what you are saying simply for arguement, even though you already know what I just said.

If you want to be in the same class as Oasis, then make something the same class! Heh, its a simple concept I would imagine...

Don't forgot it was a while before Oasis actually got online, Konidias got very far in graphics before hand...

My opinion is, why should the talented be penalized..

Yeah I see the need for the rules that Nemesis imposed, they are logical but they should be able to be bent based on evaluation, is it not up to the player world inspector’s observations on the player world? I don't think the player world that’s really good with 180 levels would not make it as UC.

You also have to take into consideration, there are different levels of quality and effort that go into each project. Some are better then others and they go though the same process as those not as good.

But when there is good ok and bad, there is an exception for extraordinary. Oasis is a prime example of that. The small amount of staff does not matter; they are all very talented and adept in their development fields. Does it mean they should have to go though the same requirements? No that’s why they get the treatment they do get.

Projects and people who show they have the ability to do such tasks at such high quality need the tools and resources to do so, that’s why they get the amount of time and private server access to do so, because they already have everything planned out and have proposed this.

Unfortunately there is a lack of above qualified people to work on projects. And those who are already working on projects.

But what my real point is, that these rules are open to descression by the global playerworld staff and inspectors, I don't think they'd mindlessly fallow the rules down to the last word, rather use them as a guide, and in some cases go above that for the exceptional playerworlds.

the rules are guidelines so playerworlds can be submitted in an orderly way with ought confusion. Yeah occasionally there will be a playerworld that will need more then 2 weeks to get online, or have below 200 levels but like I said before, it's up to the staff's descression. There is no solid textbook where everything is fallowed word by word.

Now on the MoonGod and MoonGodess part, both of you are good people, but you're both leaning on the word Arrogant for the better part of this thread. I don’t see a need for half of the remarks both of you've said, let alone how valid they are.

If you're going to debate a topic debate it on reason on eye level, don’t sit on top of a cliff and yell to the people below.

I've always wanted to ask a question of you two. Why the portrayal of Gods? I personally find it showing the true vanity of you two.

Im not quite sure of the God potraying either.. perhaps they prefer being superior? (j/k moonie & mg :P)

Birdbird, I understand what you are saying but MG and Moonie make good discussions and there'll always be some people who shout off the cliff, they cant really be stopped when its not illegal.. yet.. O.o

The funny thing is that you don't realise you're proving his point for him. You refuse to consider your own fallibility.

Indeed, and that's the problem that faces most playerworlds at the moment. It's possible to mock up a fake server thing to trigger etc, but it's a lot of unnecessary work. That's why I say private servers are the only reasonable solution.

Not at all. The graphical demands could be scaled quite easily.

Indeed it could, but I wasn't talking about that.

It could. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about here.

Well, yes. And then they'd throw it out because it doesn't fit the requirements. I'm saying that, if the requirement stays, it shouldn't be rigidly enforced. It should be more of a guideline than a hard law.

Yes I agree completely here. Fact is, people must see great from average, and great should be the ones to get a private PW...why waste money on a average PW?

I dunno...if I think about it, it is more then possible...but it would not make any sense. Why would you want to make something like that? It would be a wasted effort, you could do the same things with just levels, and less work. All I can say is optimizing it for speed will be somewhat difficult...

I know, just was pointing that out =P

Once again, I suppose it could be done...I would no doubt go with gmaps here though. I don't know why any one would, or want, to do otherwise x_x. If you don't plan on doing that, and only are proving a point, fine then...

Not exactly...Murasamune did not meet the requirements when I submitted to Psyker, and it passed. That was a while back of course, but the point is that it already is a guideline if you think about it. Besides, even if they did throw it out, if it was that great it could be brought up to Stefan and the PWA will have no say...

Largely because it would look cool. I'm sensing that most people still don't know what I'm talking about so I'll elaborate. First, go download this:

http://forums.graal2001.com/forums/s...threadid=41862

Then imagine a 3D playerworld. All script-generated so it needs no more than one level.

Then there's no problem. But I still need to argue against the Moon Deities' insistence that it should be a hard, cold rule.

If you are refering to our names, I started using the name because I liked it when I started playing classic years ago, before I ever became staff anywhere, it isnt in anyway how I see myself..Everything I have said, or tried to say has been taken the wrong way, and I think it would be better if I just kept my opinions to myself, period
I do find it funny that certain people can call people names, and tell them they are stupid, and say all kinds of stuff, and people hardly ever say anything to the said person cause he is so high and mighty, but thats ok..If I have any suggestions or input or whatever, I know where to send them to.
I do not think I am any better than anyone else, those who know me know that , and I am nowhere near arrogant, and I also didnt know there were set rules to debating....I simply wont make my voice heard so to speak on the important subjects, and if I do post something, it will be short and SWEET like the girly girl I am suppose to be, there how is that?

All of you except maybe Arcadius have misunderstood everything I have said, and the point I was making, so thats-that...

I said there should be a standard that they shouldnt go below, not that 200 levels needed to be a solid rule....

Oh yes, I know...I was impressed. Thing is...well, I will get to the point. I am running on a amd athlon 1.8 gigahert cpu, 768 mb DDR memory, GeForce 4 MX440 128 mb ddr video memory, and such like that and on the level 5 setting, it lags. Now to think of drawing for then one object...well I am sure you get my point. There are very few things which lag on my comp, and that was one of them.

Plus, why do that when you could wait for G3D...?

Well, anyway I guess it is a good goal, and only good could come from it. Certainly your scripting skills will increase drastically with such a project...

Quote:

Then there's no problem. But I still need to argue against the Moon Deities' insistence that it should be a hard, cold rule.

Just for the sake of arguement? Fact remains, if you have something great, it will no doubt go up, regardless what the moon people say.

Don't get me wrong, I do respect them, but I do agree with you on this one. It should be a very flexible guideline...

:)

ogm i r su smurt

u wil all fale bcuz u r stuped

No, it's actually because they see that I'm in the right. I don't attack your intelligence unless you attack mine, and they recognise that.

You just don't realise you're doing it, do you?

Uh...? If they don't go below it then it is a solid rule.


Sure, same for me. But that's something like 500 polygons and I wouldn't need anywhere near that many for an actual, playable world. A tree could be twenty polys, for example. A person could be thirty. You don't need huge polygon counts to be visually impressive, and especially not to be playable.

Dude, I didn't say that I would. I'm merely using it as an argument, saying that I could.

I'm not actually gonna make a playerworld with it. Maybe a minigame, but not a full-fledged online world.

Of course. That's what debates are all about :)

Ive seen some screenie's of a new server entirely scripted in 3d (with really bad gfx)..

:O

Cool, who's making it? It'd be fun to compare methods.

I informed you the way you informed me. You sat on your throne and told me that I was basically a fool and that I was incorrect in my statement that there was inappropriate stuff on your server, then I inform you otherwise, now you take offense to it?

Do you think you were being decent telling me I was wrong when I pointed out something obviously wrong with your playerworld? You immediately go in defense mode and deny my claims like I was making it all up.

I said that the stuff was put there by geovanie, and explained that I had removed it, and if there were more that all people had to do was inform me, not to make it look like I did it purposely to break the rules..I never said you were a fool..I got defensive because the way you worded your post implied that I was saying I strictly enforced the rules, but I didnt follow them myself, which is untrue...you could have said when you were on there too
I apologize for automatically going into defense mode

I didnt mention any names here, so why reply?
Noone here is dumb, noone is stupid...uninformed, and ignorant to certain things, maybe, but not stupid or dumb
See, You are allowed to argue with what I say because you strongly disagree with what I say, but when I do it, I am acting like I am on a throne...I know why to, because of your intelligence level...so what? Doesnt make you always right, and I thought I had the right to disagree, and even make mistakes once in awhile (something of which I guess you dont do)
I guess I like to debate as much as anyone else, but my threads are picked apart, and twisted into something that they werent intended to be, sorry that I am not as intelligent as you, and cant word things correctly I guess (oh boy, here it comes).
If you dont mind, the thread needs to get back on track, and the issues at hand talked about, I am not arguing with you anymore

Because you were obviously talking about me. Drop the charade, Moon Goddess, it doesn't gain you anything.

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. There are lots of stupid Graal players.

Indeed, and it's not because of differences of personality or intelligence, it's because of your attitude. You don't see it, but you refuse to accept the possibility that you are wrong. You make others out to be ignorant or foolish rather than consider that you might be the mistaken one. You may not agree with this conjecture and you're entitled to that, but nevertheless that is how other people see you.

I am often wrong. However, there are two key differences between you and I:

I choose my battles. If I am not knowledgeable on a topic then I'm wary of arguing on it. I think before I post rather than following knee-jerk reactions.
Even when neither of us is right, I present my argument in such a way that I appear to be right. This isn't in any way nefarious; everybody attempts to do the same thing. However, I'm quite good at it.

*shrugs*

Everybody has their weaknesses. It's good that you can acknowledge them.

That's fine, and if you don't reply to my message then I won't argue with you either.