You keep saying "SCAMMING CANT BE COMPARED TO SEXUAL HARRASMENT BECAUSE SCAMMING IS LEGAL".

Except that.

1. Scamming isn't legal as Sam said it's illegal.

2. They can be compared, because nobody is comparing their legality, but rather how both are things people don't like.

1. I wan't it to be official before anyone goes around saying scamming is now illegal. If it were official, then the GK staff would say that it's illegal, but as you can see from Malinko's post, scamming is still legal.

2. Uh, no.

Since when could Malinko overule Sam?

Way to not provide an explanation.

That's not what I meant. What I said by that, is that if the GK staff still believe scamming is legal, then...

A) This rule was made by Sam and is one of his own personal rules

B) It is not official yet

So? He's going to enforce it.

It won't be implemented into the system and therefore scamming is and should be illegal.

The hell? Bjorn and I have made it very clearly, scamming IS legal unless it is done by bug/glitch abuse. Abusing bugs and glitches to your advantage IS against the rules.

Read my posts FULLY.

Just because you're idiotic enough to give your items to a player and not have those items returned or items of the same value, we are not responsible for it. That's your stupid move.

Apparently Sam didn't get permission from Stefan, if other staff members are unsure on this rule.

Why?

Nobody's denying that there's fault on the part of the victims. But why should that mean that staff shouldn't help?

I agree completely. Without staff helping the players when they feel wronged, they will leave and may never come back.

This is rediclious, you have nothing to say, Sam.. Scamming is legal/

It's not like we don't help. Of course, we try to retrieve the scammed items back, though, if we can't, we can't. Usually, I'll even give my items or items of value to make up for scammed items.

If a player wants us to watch a trade to make sure he/she doesn't get scammed, we will watch to make sure.

Exactly. I know that one time when I was starting kingdoms I got scammed out of 2 diamonds. I did not play for about a year and a half, after that.

Way to place it out of context:

"If Graal Police witness a scam directly they may punish the offending player."

And you are not Graal Police either.

You are so clever. You dont play the game, but you think you know all.
To let you know: I am beside Björn the highest staff on GK, with Admin rights, not only EM Admin. And we do not have aspecial GP on GK. Play the game and you maybe don't fail with your comments in the future.

No sir, you failed with your comments.

First off, you're slow. Do you honestly think I ment that Graal Police comment seriously?

Second off, you did not adress my main point. You can only punish a player if you witness the scam directly.

EDIT:

I've heard of others who play the game that your oh-so great powers are at certain moments restricted to the pub, that you suddenly can't speak English, and that you refuse to help them.

Hm.

Okay, from recent hearings, I guess scamming is now illegal.

It was agreed on between Sam and I, already aprroved by Bjorn and Stefan.

So scamming is illegal.

No more argument?

EDIT: SORRY, I MADE A TYPO!

Fix your typo on your post ^

Edit: Ok cool, fixed :D

REJOICE, PEOPLE! REJOICE!

It apparently always has been.

How is someone going to prove a scam?

Screenshots.

However, a couple people have come to me saying that they have been framed. I really don't see how a screenshot can prove whether or not a person scammed another person unless the guy says "haha i scammed you"

The only time I feel that an admin should ban a person for scamming is when the admin is moderating the trade. For the people that have been banned so far, this has not been the case.

...

Images can be edited.

Logs for great justice.

How the hell are logs gone proof a scam?

I can give someone an item, and then say 'omg he scamd me, ban plz' and judging by Sam's... reactions it wouldn't be far from the truth if the ban occured.

...

I understand that. That's why I'm not too thrilled about the idea of banning people for scamming unless an admin witnesses it.

And I, personally, can tell when images are editted :)
[EDIT] in the new mudlib system I imagine, if they give each trade a specific ID, you may be able to UNDO a trade (if you're an admin)[/EDIT]

Then in what way was it ever legal?

I didn't enforce any rules against scamming - I was told not to by Bjorn.

One time I tried to retrieve some items from a player who had scammed another - then I was very rudely scolded by Bjorn so I decided that if that's what he wants - I'll do it. I also didn't enforce the rule against USD sales very often either (Back when there was zero tolerance)

It's funny, you help the players you get scolded... you enforce the rules to a period and make an example of a player every now and then and you get canned. *shrug* Ces't le vie.

I feel your pain.

Yea this is really old but I most say, how is a GK Staff member able to sell USD and still be a staff member? nullify sold $500 worth to Crusty Deadbeard and since hes staff no ones doing anything.

:o

...

When was this? x-x

This is Graal.

And USD selling isn't illegal.

Because noone knows anything about it ?

And no he is no staff on Graal Kingdoms. He is some Kingdom LAT on Debug but not on Graal Kingdoms.

I would like to point out to both of you that it was made very clear that selling/buying for USD is perfectly "legal" so long as the arrangement for is not made on the Graal Online servers. This way, if you're scammed, Graal Online can in no way be held responsible.

Buying/selling USD is a risk you take.

It happend Monday. And it was done on Graalonline. On Graal Kindgoms, I have pictures and stuff to prove it aswell. A few history screen shots and a few player screen shots. I don't really care, just the fact that hes letting everyone glitch good items..But thats another topic, glitching. Haha.. Well on the topic of nullify, he wears his "GK Staff" tag and that seems like he's staff to me..? Not to mention he claims that he is staff. I massed a cussword, oh bad me :whatever: and he claims that he will pillory me the next time I mass a cussword because he is "GK Staff". So your saying that he isnt? ..Well anyways.. Sam claims that USD'ing is completely illegal and tries to stop it. He massed some rules last week and it said that USD was illegal, so I presume it is illegal considering hes GP Admin for Graal Kingdoms?

He is admin but still needs to follow the Graal code of conduct...perhaps you should read it if you are confused.

This is what I massed and you can read the complete text here.

I will explain that a bit more.
We do not allow to do business for real money on Graal Servers. That includes announcing items for USD.
All deals people do outside of Graal isn't our business.

If someone announces: "Selling bomy lord helmet for 100 USD" it is illegal.
If he find a silly person who will pay for pixels lots of money outside of Graal it is a lucky guy. He can be happy to sell a pic to an idiot.

The tag (GK Staff) is available for all staff working on Graal Kingdoms, including kingdoms staff like LAT's, translaters or kingdom leaders. That doesn't mean they have any rights like pillory or so.

Selling for USD is legal as long as nothing is coordinated on the game itself. I was told this by every admin, so it must be true!