I rather tend to believe him than listening to you.

There needs to be a jail or time ban. I think people wouldnt act like this than because they lose p2p time.

I've seen much worse from other people, simply for saying "f*g" is not a reason to ban someone...

The people that are called worse things are not as offended, and they are not moved to post in the forums about it.

YES!

There needs to be something done. I mean, this is miserable for people. It's just unneeded and degrades the quality of play.

I did.

I am not 100% sure that Toran did not fraud, but there is a good chance that he didn't. There is not enough proof that he did fraud to keep him banned which is why he is unbanned.

I've mentioned this a few times, but the only REAL way to fix this is to have some degree of ability to track harrasment WITHOUT relying on the people who report it.

All I ask: a server script to track everyone's very last 30 seconds of PMs and text chat, all in RAM it would be small for 100 players, very fast and non-laggy.

if someone uses a 'text snapshot' command, the 30 seconds get saved in a que to be reffered to staff later, the player is given a record number, which staff can use to look it up.

the snapshot would only be for the text for surrounding players, not all players on the server, and masses/toguilds/PMs that go through the player.

Low lag, high accountability. And, as it would be server-side, tamper proof.

few other thoughts:


1) Toran did do more than call someone a bi*** regarding sexual harrasment. You know what you did, you can play non-cholant etc, I don't care. You forget too, that getting another chance is not getting the slate wiped clean.
You say I harrassed you: You came where we were and harrassed us, insulted us, and wouldn't go, I retorted, and when you couldn't take it, and asked me to stop, I said fine, just leave us alone. You wanted Wren to bless your dagger or whatever, even though you know she wouldn't.
I told you time after time, act with a little respect, and I'd stop bugging you. Or not, and just leave us alone.

You followed us and wouldn't leave, I hardly call retorting and asking you to leave harrasement though. :rolleyes:
I still have to laugh that you reported me to Jagen though.

other thoughts:

2) calling someone a f*g is as bad as calling someone a dirty jew or a nig**r.

3) if you say a word, that means more than one thing, but obviously intend it as a slur then it's a slur.

4) When someone reports a problem, a full report should be taken then, and they shouldn't be bugged after that. No one reporting something should given flak for reporting something.
If someone else needs to talk to whomever reported it, I would surely hope it should be a paid professional staffer.

5) I doubt anU meant it as a sexual slir, but it was one. High school kids use it all the time just to get a rise out of each other, since they are all so insecure that they will ever get a gf anyways.
If it was me, I would not ban him, but it's not up to me.

6) You can be banned for breaking the agreement, you can get a speeding ticket for going to fast. If a cop gives the last guy a warning and you a ticket, you can't throw that in his face. Equal enforcement is important though, but I think it was in this case.

7) Don't push the limits, trying to find every way to harrass someone within the letter of the law, you'll end up loosing.

8) I don't think staff have an easy job, it looks like they have little guidance on this.

9) There should be a 3 day, 7 day, 21 day and 60 day ban options, plus full ban.

It's as if irl we only gave life sentences for any crime, and had a completely messed up appeals process too due to the severity of the punishment. Some would be punished unfairly and others would get away with near-murder.



basically, how to act in graal is simple:

imagine you are in a public mall, and mall security is both within view and earshot.

whatever would get you kicked out of the mall, should get you kicked out of graal.

It's common sense, this is a public area, just act like it.

dude...you were online for like 5 minutes, and the entire time YOU were the one harassing me.

Bugging me? uh, no, you were more like HARASSING me about my dad. Why you got away with a damn warning is beyond me. You shouldn't be getting yourself into confrontations with players anyway.

So Valder's homosexual. What's your point? He's still a billion times cooler than you will ever be. :\

I love how what I say is taken the wrong way...

Neo, I respected you...I have nothing against homosexual people...i am comfortable with mine, so why would I hold anything against him?

i don't think neo read the whole thread. He seemed to be basing his post more on valder's original two posts.

okay, we'll play the 'point out how toran is lying game'

and while looking through the PM history for this guy, I found some things he said about Misty that I don't think are considered acceptable behaviour: (note, I don't actually know misty, this is stuff he massed)

Also, were harrassing us for at least 5 to 15 minutes, before you PMed me to stop pointing out you were making yourself look like a fool.
that PM from you was at 8/1/2003 8:53:44 PM

it went on until 8/1/2003 9:31:17 PM



As about your father??

For the record, I didn't get a warning. I didn't do anything wrong.
All I did was attempt to get you to leave us alone, I wasn't the one following you around, I wasn't asking anything exceptional of you other than to leave us alone.


Now, that is ALL I ever said about your dad. Before you decide to tell a sob sorry about how you are the world's greatest victim, get your facts straight, or at least make up stuff that can't so easily be discredited.

haha, wait a second. You said I was harassing Zoe/Wren. That is MISTY I was talking about. That is not Zoe or Wren, and I was apparently "warned" for harassing misty, not banned. I was "banned" for harassing Zoe/Wren, which I am almost positive you did not see, because I did no such thing, other than PK her/them and bug them about their Blood Ring.

And I never wanted to become the world's biggest victim or whatever, i told you to shut the **** up because you were being a complete ******* and had absolutely no right to assume anything.


www.angelfire.com/alt2/toranstuff

Log of your continued crap is there.

Toran, did you not see where I wrote and while looking through the PM history for this guy, I found some things he said about Misty that I don't think are considered acceptable behaviour: (note, I don't actually know misty, this is stuff he massed) ?


I didn't say that stuff was about Zoe or Wren, I watched you while you were harrassing Zoe and Wren, which was not in PMs.

I pointed it out because you seem soo hurt and insulted at the thought that anyone could accuse you of any type of misconduct, when in fact you were harrassing someone not all that earlier.

And yes, you got a warning for that, ie you were not banned outright right then. Then you moved on to someone new to harrass, and you got yourself banned. Go figure.

You act as if you were some sort of saint who has been wronged over one missunderstanding, that's BS.

The points you said, which I pointed out are lies are:

A) That I was only around for 5 minutes, the PM history alone proves you are wrong there.

B) That I was harrasing you about your father dying, which if you read, I obviously did not. I was very sympethetic actually.


I'll also mention, I wasn't assuming anything, I was simply reading you, as you are an easy person to read.

You always try to paint yourself as some sort horribly victimized person just trying to get by.
You do that. You say you can't understand why I got away with a warning when I wasn't even warned, actually.

The answer: You were completely out of line to do what you did, and as such I had every right to act the way I did. You were the one following us around, not the other way around.

Why is that though, so 'beyond you' as you said?

Simply, you prefer to be confused and befuddled than to think deeply enough to realize where you are actually the one in the wrong.

You can't stand to even consider accepting responsiblility for how you act - no, it always is someone else's fault.



If you are banned, it's 'beyond you'

You are rebanned, and you 'cannot understand why....'

or 'for some reason....' etc etc etc

Lots of people are angry at you?

You say people 'seem to have' something against you - like you are pondering the deep mysterys of the universe - it's pretty simple, you act like a jerk and until you change that, you are a jerk, plain and simple.

Padren, drop it.
Lyndzey said I am to be unbanned, that is all I needed.

You shouldn't involve yourself in this. If I was harassing Wren or Zoe, which I was not, because I was SITTING at Gov's altar waiting for lords when you told me to "go away," and followed up with PMs about how I am a "sad and horrible" person and continued to make remarks about my life that you know nothing about.

Proof, please. Last I knew she agreed with your ban.

if that's the case then you shouldn't have a problem with her deciding, right?

She's not the one looking into it, though she is in essense a superior. I do believe she would have conveyed this to me, though, if it was her intent. If she said anything about you being unbanned at all, it was most likely dealing with your global ban - the reason you were globally unbanned was lack of evidence to hold you (Even though I do believe you admitted to cancelling the payments :\).

The bills were paid. The only thing canceled may have been paypal to other peoples paypal, but those were also paid.

Well as soon as I can find ICQ logs I will post where she said "you are to be unbanned." [edit] i didn't save history. Oh well, she is away on ICQ right now, I can wait I suppose.

ok i am just making this well out in the open...i have no intention of calling torankusu any names, i do plan on pking him, i dont liek him...he said something about him making an agreement with dustari, im not dustari, thus making him fair game.
i know he will go to admins or something like that and tell them i called him offending names and what not and i will prolly get banned..but hey, if admins wanna be played and manipulated by him, that is their business...i really laugh at how stefan believes the things that people such as toran say, when all they in fact are doing is trying to manipulate him, oh well.

so yea, i am making it out in the open, i have no intention of calling him names or anything, so if he tells you i did anything other than pk him, he is lying to you...so yea, admins(toran, james, gk staff...)

where does this come from?

one thing, why do men get so obsessive about people being homosexual?

probally because they are a closet *** themselves(i had a friend like that who was *** so taking my thought from that)

A *** in the UK is a ciggarette so think of it like that valder;) just because a person is *** maks them no different. I dont see people feak out and say "omg you are straight" so why be like that for ***s?

anU should maybe get possibly a few days ban or something for his actions..as it broke the rules of the code of conduct

on the whole toran thing well you've seen the earlier post, so you can imagine what little i think of him