Originally Posted by Scary_Sock (Post 1509005)

I really never heard of Xor before, and I doubt more than half of the community has heard of him before. The point of getting INVITED is because that person has helped out other people with Server issues, problems, Etc....

I have known Tig before he became a "Global" and I have known TSA before he became a global and I've known other "Globals" before they actually became "Globals". The point is that Xor hasen't been judged by the community yet to actually give their opinion on Xor being a "Global" member, and the only people that actually have judged Xor are the other Global Administrators.

What I think that should of been done is that someone should of have asked the community is Xor was good enough for this position.

Originally Posted by Gambet (Post 1509009)

Never heard of Xor before, and considering his only post on these forums was posted in this thread, I'd be curious to know how he was considered perfect for the job. Nonetheless, congratulations, you obviously made a good impression on somebody. :)

Originally Posted by TSAdmin (Post 1509008)

I knew Bell was going to seek a new member[/SIZE]

Originally Posted by Clockwork (Post 1509015)

Yea, makes all the people that actually applied feel warm and fuzzy inside knowing she either completely ignored our applications or consider none of us good enough for the job while seeking for a new member.

Originally Posted by Scary_Sock (Post 1509005)

I really never heard of Xor before, and I doubt more than half of the community has heard of him before. The point of getting INVITED is because that person has helped out other people with Server issues, problems, Etc....

I have known Tig before he became a "Global" and I have known TSA before he became a global and I've known other "Globals" before they actually became "Globals". The point is that Xor hasen't been judged by the community yet to actually give their opinion on Xor being a "Global" member, and the only people that actually have judged Xor are the other Global Administrators.

What I think that should of been done is that someone should of have asked the community is Xor was good enough for this position.

Originally Posted by TSAdmin (Post 1509021)

Well, Bell is my boss, and I can't be picky and choosy about who she has me work alongside. That would be unprofessional. The fact that she chose someone who seemingly never applied and was hand-picked was an executive decision she made. As Tig said, we're always on the lookout and obviously people who apply within the forum would like to have precedence of choice over someone who has not applied. Having seen Xor in action directly and noticed his abilities, I think Bell obviously opted to act on positive grounds rather than an intention of "taking a stab" at the people who did apply.

I'm not for or against the choice made. I understand previous applicants' frustration, but I also understand Bell's current standing and highly doubt in any way it had anything to do with the applicants of the past being any more or less "qualified" than Xor.

Originally Posted by Clockwork (Post 1509048)

I'm not really attacking the process, I'm sorry. I am sort of frustrated though for watching that each time a new pwa is picked, it is only after someone has seen them in action with players on a server. Basically eliminating anyone who cannot be found on a server that is not classic or has the attention of the pwa.

Originally Posted by Xor (Post 1508908)

thanks guys!



Nope

Originally Posted by TSAdmin (Post 1509051)

I was picked through the application process, but I guess as far as "Seeing in action" with me came from the fact that I didn't let HoudiniMan miss me. I was always in his face and wasn't afraid to challenge his decisions (Provided I knew they were wrong or flawed) and I think the fact that he couldn't shake me forced him to see me in action and helped my application even more. Perhaps it's not all about reputation and applications, but getting in there and not just hoping you'll get noticed, but make yourself noticed.

Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1509022)

what would we know about who makes a good candidate for the PWA?

Originally Posted by Loriel (Post 1509075)

Look, if you are still actually playing Graal, you obviously lack the critical-thinking skills required for informed decisions regarding PWA applicants~

Originally Posted by Lyndzey (Post 1509115)

Applications are not the ideal way to select someone for a global staff position. PWA members need to be fair and respectful to players, a quality that cannot be represented through applications but only through personal interaction. The PWA hiring section probably should have never been added, as it would be much better for a person to be selected by global staff based on how they interact with the community.

Congrats to Xor, and good luck.

Originally Posted by Lyndzey (Post 1509115)

Applications are not the ideal way to select someone for a global staff position. PWA members need to be fair and respectful to players, a quality that cannot be represented through applications but only through personal interaction. The PWA hiring section probably should have never been added, as it would be much better for a person to be selected by global staff based on how they interact with the community.

Congrats to Xor, and good luck.

Originally Posted by Lyndzey (Post 1509115)

Haha...

Applications are not the ideal way to select someone for a global staff position. PWA members need to be fair and respectful to players, a quality that cannot be represented through applications but only through personal interaction. The PWA hiring section probably should have never been added, as it would be much better for a person to be selected by global staff based on how they interact with the community.

Originally Posted by Lyndzey (Post 1509115)

Haha...

Applications are not the ideal way to select someone for a global staff position. PWA members need to be fair and respectful to players, a quality that cannot be represented through applications but only through personal interaction. The PWA hiring section probably should have never been added, as it would be much better for a person to be selected by global staff based on how they interact with the community.

Congrats to Xor, and good luck.

Originally Posted by Bell (Post 1509146)

stuffz.

Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1509149)

Do real jobs hire you just because they think you're good or require a resume first to know your credentials, and then move on from there?

Originally Posted by Lyndzey (Post 1509170)

This isn't the real world. This is an online gaming community where we already know the majority of players, not a country of 300 million people where we have to go off of resumes because we haven't been able to observe the person interacting with others.

I would say that becoming a PWA member is more of getting a promotion from a server staff job, as I believe all global staff members were at one point staff somewhere. This actually does parallel real jobs somewhat, as we are typically promoted based on our interactions with others, not because we sent in an application.

Originally Posted by Lyndzey (Post 1509170)

This isn't the real world. This is an online gaming community where we already know the majority of players, not a country of 300 million people where we have to go off of resumes because we haven't been able to observe the person interacting with others.

I would say that becoming a PWA member is more of getting a promotion from a server staff job, as I believe all global staff members were at one point staff somewhere. This actually does parallel real jobs somewhat, as we are typically promoted based on our interactions with others, not because we sent in an application.

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier (Post 1509201)

Hiro I don't think you get it. Look at Major League Baseball, at one time everyone starts out playing in the minors, which in this case are normal servers. Assume Rookie league is a newly bought server, A, is a under construction server, AA, is a hosted server, AAA, is a classic server. Xor worked his way all the way to AAA, because people saw how good he was. In this point in time, the managers (player world team) noticed that he could really help out, so they called him up, and got him to sign a major league contract. It doesn't take an application to be a major leaguer, all it takes is skill.

Originally Posted by Skatertay (Post 1509203)

jesus why does everyone like to complain.

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier (Post 1509201)

Hiro I don't think you get it. Look at Major League Baseball, at one time everyone starts out playing in the minors, which in this case are normal servers. Assume Rookie league is a newly bought server, A, is a under construction server, AA, is a hosted server, AAA, is a classic server. Xor worked his way all the way to AAA, because people saw how good he was. In this point in time, the managers (player world team) noticed that he could really help out, so they called him up, and got him to sign a major league contract. It doesn't take an application to be a major leaguer, all it takes is skill.

Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1509195)

i think you are trying to create a reason for PWA to hire people they like, rather than people who have applied

Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1509195)

applications should be used as a way for the PWA to know which people want into the PWA, like in real jobs where you apply to make it known that you want the job. it shouldn't be said that applications are useless or unnecessary, because they aren't. further, once the application is done, only then can you really look at the person (interview) and then make a rational decision based upon the credentials and the impression

Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1509195)

just deciding that someone is good enough because you "know them" or "have seen them at work" isn't as great as when someone applies, waits, shows themselves as competent, and then is hired. i could care less if xor is PWA or not - i don't know a single thing about him, nor a single thing about why he was hired, other than he worked on zodiac and was apparently helpful to players. i also know FAQs on UN that help players out - why don't you go and watch them?

Originally Posted by Clockwork (Post 1509205)

Xor did not work his all the way to AAA. he started on it during its AAA.

Originally Posted by Lyndzey (Post 1509215)

No, that's not what I am saying at all. I don't think that an application is the best way to go about choosing someone for a global staff position. If the PWA wanted to only hire people they like, I'm sure they could have them send in an application and hire them that way.

I have had input on who should be hired for global positions before, and I felt the staff members we chose from applications turned out to be a lot worse than the ones we picked based on their experience on a staff team and their interaction with the community. I saw the same problem when I was hiring GPs for Classic as GP Chief. I hired this one person who had a great looking application, but turned out to be a horrible GP. From my experiences, applications are not the way to go for this game.



I do agree with you somewhat. Perhaps a mix of an application and experience with the person is the best way to go (such as TSAdmin). However, it is not reasonable to hire someone based only on an application and interview for this game. You cannot predict how that person will act as global staff unless you have seen how that person interacts with other players before. I'm sure someone can write a great application with lots of <3s all over, and have a nice interview as well. The problem is that unless global staff knows that person well, they would have no way of knowing how he/she treated other players, or whether or not he/she is corrupt or power hungry. You really need to know the player well before entrusting them with a global position.



I don't believe this is a case of Bell hiring Xor because she knows him. Xor was the Asst Manager of Zodiac, not a FAQ on UN. The two positions are incomparable. Look at the current PWAs: Bell (former Classic GP Asst Admin), TSAdmin (Former Admin at Era), Tig (GK Admin). They all held management positions that not only helped them gain skills that would be useful as a PWA member, but also gave them the opportunity to prove to the players and global staff that they would be a fair and respectful staff member.

[Edit]: I'm sorry for turning this into an argument, it was not my intention. I just wanted to attempt to explain why applications are not always used in the hiring process of globals. This thread really should be about congratulating Xor, and wishing him luck with his new position.

Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1509224)

i don't particularly care where or how a person got involved with staff, and i'm not trying to make a point that insult's xor or the fact he was hired. from the way he's being defended, it sounds as if he can be of help to people. but at least i've heard of people before they were hired, along with most of the active community

and also i wanted to just defend the people who tried and applied to be globals. it just doesn't seem fair that all of those people didn't make it, which is obvious from the current hire. so let me get this right: from what i'm being told, the correct way to get noticed by a global and invited to join the PWA is:

1) get a high ranking position on any server (chief, admin, manager)
2) don't swear and help players with their problems
3) know how to do something development-wise (LAT, GFX, scripting, SFX, ganis, etc.)

then just be patient? does the PWA regularly go onto RC to learn about people with these positions and judge them on their helpfulness and what they could add to the team, discussing it and then proceeding to either hire or not-hire? or was someone like xor a miracle happening; a rare discovery to be added to PWA?