Kind of like the majority of this thread? :\

What do you expect? The majority of your decisions limit the function of this forum and bother people. You have an earned reputation for restricting all interesting forms of discussion, so of course the forums will be exciting if you do not limit interesting types of discussion.

Are you really so surprised? Have you actually looked at some of the decisions you have made, and reasonings behind them? Do you think people will tolerate this constantly alluding Unixmad as the supporter of your decisions while trumping any use of rules without feeling some relief when you take a vacation?

Your moderatorship is doing nothing but hurting your image in the community. By being so stringent and demanding every thread to be perfectly moderated, you are earning the chagrin of the other community members. No other moderator was like this, and they were accepted as a part of the community and the forums were in a pretty fair state. You, however, are outside of the community now. This is because you do things to restrict the community, and only restrict the community. You do not even contribute to it, other than the number of threads closed/deleted/snipped.

I don't mean to offend you, but can you really expect people to smile and nod while you destroy their threads? Is it worth moderating these forums to the point where you are erasing the community, so that in the end, there are no people left to moderate? Your "vigilance", or "radicalism", depending on who you speak to, is causing nothing but unrest in the balance of the forums. You are causing more harm than good, so why are you still doing it? Are you really doing this for the community? If not, then for whom are you moderating? To what end?

Sure, Unixmad hired you, but why are you going to sacrifice your own image for him? To give back to the community? The community hates what you are doing. You are not paid to do this. Have you thought about how this is actually affecting you on a personal level on Graal? It seems as though your situation is absolutely miserable, with no gain and no point in doing what you're doing.

A good moderator does not seperate his or herself from the community. Look at Spark and Kamuii, and even Kaimetsu. They are/were very much a part of the community, and rather than only engaging in moderation action, they participate(d) in the discussions held (even some controversial ones, like homosexuality).

I like you as a person. I think that you are a good person, and I never want to make you feel like I don't think you are a good person. It makes me sick when I see people bash you on a personal level, and I'm sorry if I have made jokes or comments in the past about you. I'm not doing this because I hate you, or dislike you. I wish you the best, but I don't think that what you are doing is good for you, me, or the rest of the people here.

I think maybe you should look at what you're doing, and examine the reasons why you are doing it. Let's get beyond the hurt feelings, and the anger/emotions on both sides of this argument, and look at reality and what is really happening. Though I won't presume a friendship between us: from one friend to another, you really should consider what you're doing to yourself and the people around you.

I don't want to necessarily suggest you quit, but I want you to know that if you get more relaxed or if you do quit, I'll not carry my opinions from now into the future. The Graal community can be forgiving, and you can still rejoin it if you want.

What, you now assume the traits of the majority? Then stop closing threads and deleting posts that the majority of posters are totally okay with :rolleyes:

:eek:
.......
Erm...I wasn't on my way to making a bad thread, nuh uh
and to protagonist, good argument, (yes I do agree) but this thread will soon be closed, it broke the anti silly rule, and you posted against moonie. Blasphemy! :megaeek:

The post was not an argument. As long as she reads it, it serves its purpose.

I mean, you present a good case ^^
still, your fighting the Goddess man, watch yourself, you'll wake up in the middle of a desert in Mexico, with a ban :rolleyes:

She's not a mindless automaton. You're dehumanizing her, which is why people like you would get banned for speaking to her about her role in the community.

I'm pretty sure she has the ability to reason, and hopefully she will. One thing is for sure: you will not get anywhere in life by treating people like they have no soul.

I do agree, but you've never argued with her over PMs, trust me, she won't budge much on this one.
And yes, I'm sorry if I offended you Moonie.
I don't think it's bannable, considering what I've seen other people take in harassment.

I was referring to those who turned my goodbye thread into a "let's do what we can while she is gone" thread

To Protagonist: I am still among the community, I still play Graal, and I still have peoples support.
I do not do the things that I do to be popular. I do them because I was hired to do them. If it bothered me, I simply wouldn't do it, or I would say something to Unixmad about it (which I have done, and it was resolved in a professional manner).

You or other members may not like it, and I know you are tired of hearing it, but I am moderating the forums the way Unixmad wants.
I have had discussions with Unixmad, I know how he wants the forums moderated.
Those who don't mind following rules, and/or not posting inappropriate content, do not have a problem with me, but some of you think it is ok to discuss mature content on these forums such as homosexuality, and other themes, which Unixmad does not want here. I'm not guessing, I asked him, and he said he does not want those types of discussions on the Graal forums, and I do agree with him.

Stop with the gutter sniping :\

You are still hiding under Unixmad, the fact remains, he has never posted that he wants these rules. I'm not asking for him to moderate the forums, but he can atleast post rules that he wants enforced.

Its pathetic that everytime something you don't like comes up you say Unixmad wants the forums modded this way.

Likely, Unixmad posts in a moderator board where the public cannot see. The more he posts publically, the greater the opportunity for the public to bother him. The moderators are his eyes and ears. If he disagrees with the rules, which I am sure he's at least seen, he can easily change them.

I'm hiding behind no one...I agree with what he wants....Unixmad IS looking at the rules, and he IS adding things to them from what I hear.
He has said that he likes what is already there, however.
I am sure he will posting soon ;)
What part of the fact that these are not my forums do you not understand? Is it wrong of me to run someone elses forums the way THEY want them to be run?
It would be wrong if it went against everything I believed in, and I would not do it if that were the case...I do agree with them.

A pre-emptive battle!?

Did Kaimetsu moderate the forums the way Unix wanted?

Okay, i might have been exaggerating ;)

but still, I have a valid point, many threads are closed for being silly or because they are against the moderation (although this one seems to taget you a bit more :\ )

I think it's very possible to moderate withing Unix's rules, without being seen as 'oppressive'

Your message...clear.

Your paragraph format...horrendous!

Thread mode. Quotes. Anything.

I was referring to you who used supposedly bad behaviour by others as an excuse for your own bad behaviour.

Stop breaking the thread structure.

Not challenging this claim, but, whose support?

Would you be moderating this forum the same way were you given full control over the rules?

Where did I exibit bad behavior?



Ok


lol, I am bad at remembering names. What difference does it make? It wouldn't matter if I had none of the members support really.


Absolutely

That would be Andrew and Andrew.

Unixmad told me in a discussion that I was allowed to break any rule I want.

So apparantly I can break any rule I want.


See, I can hide behind claims also, doesn't change the fact that Unixmad could have never spoken a word to you.

OMG YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO TELL ANYONE!
:rolleyes:

Did you ignore my post completely? Is the font colour 'invisible'???

My question is, if he sees what we're doing as wrong, why doesn't HE come out and say it, or re-write the rules to include new ones?

Because that is what he hires Moderators to do....And he is adding to the rules...he has told me already that he wants the ones we already have to be left, but he is adding to them.
No matter what he puts in the rules, there will still be cases where the mods dont permit something because it is deemed inappropriate for the forums. Sometimes it is a judgement call, or just plain ol common sense.

Only problem is.. who's sense :-\

What might seem like common sense to you might be something totally different to someone else.

When you run things too much like a dictatorship (I mean that without any of the negative connotations, meant in the more literal sense) you will cause anger and distrust in your customers.

Moonie, please dont take this like an attack or an insult, just a constructive comment based on an observation.

Yeah, common sense is the best explanation! That way you don't have to provide any rationale for your moderation decisions because, hey, they're common sense!

You used ellipses in a stupid way! Also, the "all I can say is wow" thing was rather lame.

lol, it is a claim that you are unable to back up. You made it so I thought you would consider it to make a difference.

Common sense says you should give me all your money.
Really, it does.
Do you have no common sense? :mad:

In a few years time, you'll all be out enjoying your life, this will be but a mere memory.
And you'll look back and think to yourself "Wow, that was stupid, why did I take stupid online things so seriously. Infact why did I even care at all?".

True story^

Oh, I see.
You are simply looking at silly things to pick on me about ^^
Yea, I used (...) incorrectly, sorry. I will make an effort as to not upset you by making that mistake again. :)

As for the lameness? Yea, maybe. Thanks for your opinion.

Look Loriel, it really doesn't matter who supports me, and who does not. Yes, being supported is nice, but not at all necessary for me to do the job that I was hired to do.
Once in awhile, I get the "I think you are doing a great job", and it feels good, but like I said, it isn't necessary to do my job.

In order for me to "back it up", I would have to look through my Graal PM's, and saved forum PM's to get names, and I really do not feel the need to do that, nor do I have the time. It isn't that important to me that you believe me.

Really? Wow, I must not have as much common sense as I thought *cries*

I am glad ^^

Yeah, I picked on you about a silly thing, sorry. However it is not like I scavenge the forums for silly things to pick on you about. :)

It is not about correctness. It is just annoying. I mean, you can totally orthographically get away with using ellipses all the time, but it is just bad style.

Look, Moonie, I would not usually call you out on stuff like this and there is no reason to get this worked up about it, but you just kind of came into this thread and told everybody else they sucked. What kind of reaction did you expect? It really does not matter whether you originally posted the thread.

You brought this up. There is no reason to tell me about this. You are totally ignoring my question and try to prove the legitimacy of your moderation again about which I do not care at all, as I clearly stated when I denied challenging your claim.


Please tell me you actually understood the point anyway :mad:

I'm not at all worked up, and I implied that "the majority of this thread looks stupid", I didn't mean to imply that the members are stupid, just the posts. Yes, I get your point, and no, I did not expect anything different ;)


Yes, I perfectly understood your point

Is it me or does Loriel use the :mad: face too much?

Wow...let's...complain...about...the...way...peopl e...use ellipses all the time.

...

Why do you keep doing this job? What is the purpose behind it? Like I said, the community hates the job you're doing because it is anti-community. If you're not doing it to serve the community, who are you doing it for? It's a volunteer position, not a paid position, so it can't be for payment.

I like the job. I like helping the owners of the game.
The entire community does not hate the job I am doing, just some who post :)
In order for you to know that the entire community hates the job that I am doing, the entire community (which is what, thousands of members?) would have to post that they hate what I am doing.
Doing a job isn't always about getting paid.

But those thousand members are reduced to about fifty or so when we consider the sheer number of inactive accounts on the forums. Those outside the forums don't really come into account because your job does not extend beyond the forums. While volunteer work is noble enough, the community you are moderating repetitively asks you to stop doing some things, and has expressed a will to not have certain topics censored. At what point, if any, do you consider it your duty to the community, and not the owner of the game, to appease those in the community who have some opposing views? Do their opinions come under consideration at all, on any level of administration?

I cannot understand why something so simple is not understood. :frown:
My personal feelings do not matter in the least when it comes to doing this job the way the owner wishes.
If I personally do not agree with it, then I would quit if it were not to be changed. Why? It's simple, and I have said it over and over again, it's because these forums do not belong to me, and it is up to the owner as to how it should be run.

You know, just because members do not post, does not mean they do not read the forums.
The thing is that alot of people read the forums for informational purposes, but prefer not to post.
I know because I have given links many times to certain parts of the forums to people.
Accounts are not innactive on the forums just because they don't post, they may actively view the forums.
You could have no idea how many members view these forums, so the bases for what you say is based on who actually posts, which is not a fair estimate.

The community does not repeatedly ask me to stop doing things, only a small portion of the community.

Do you really think it is fair for a few members to expect me to stop doing the job that I was hired to do because they don't think it is fair?
Do you really think that I should disregard what the owners want because a few members don't think it is fair?
Do you think it is fair to attack me for doing the job I was hired to do?

What I see, is that you think I should pick out some things that the owners want me to enforce, and to not enforce them because some of the community are upset by it. Do you honestly think that is fair for me to do on forums of which I do not own?

If I cannot do something 100%, then I won't do it at all

I understand the dynamic around this principle, but it is really not so dynamic. You chose to take this job, and you choose to stay with it. However, what is your motive behind doing it? Personal gain, or helping the community? If it is personal gain, then there's no real discussion here, but if it's the community, then there is.

I will take an example from my personal life to give an example of how one can still hold a position, but not do things which are not ethically sound. At MOSI, as I'm sure you've heard, there is a "BODIES" exhibit. I think it is morally abhorrent that they took bodies without consent for this exhibit. In my Anatomy and Physiology class, they gave 20 extra credit points to people who went to the exhibit (basically, this is the same as two quizzes). I abstained.

Did I go because my professor told me to? No, and a lot more was/is at stake than a trivial position on the forums. Sure, I could have said to myself, "Well, it's school and my grades are involved, so my personal feelings shouldn't get in the way of how I do my job, which is to be a successful student," but I didn't.

Moral of the story? Don't just listen to people because they are in positions of authority, especially if you have nothing to gain and only something trivial to lose. Again, who are you doing this for?



Okay, but that doesn't change how the NGRT forums should be operated. They do not and should not use the NGRT for information purposes because it is not graal related. They can get their other news elsewhere.
We could take a poll, if you want.

It isn't just a few anymore. The numbers have expanded far beyond what they once were. It isn't because other people are changing, it is because your moderation is becoming more and more aggressive.
Unixmad does not have a collar and leash on you. I am sure that if you did not close a thread, it would probably go completely unnoticed. He is not holding a gun to your head and probably could not care less about what goes on here.
It is not fair to take a job and then doing it to the extreme that many members of the community are calling for you to stop it. These forums exist for the community, the community doesn't exist for the forums.
Do you consider limiting reasonable discussion good moderating?


We aren't getting anywhere. As long as you continue to consider yourself Unixmad's lapdog, which is not an attack on you or unixmad, then we can't really discuss your policy. You are allowed to have a soul and do your job. In fact, people will only respect you if you show some backbone. Constantly citing Unixmad as your master is not going to earn you any respect points with anyone.

My motive is to help the owners of Graal, which I believe to be what is best for the community. Again, if I didn't agree with it, I would not do it.

I assume that you did not go, because it was something that you did not agree with.
I do agree with the job that I am doing. That is the difference.




To an extent, you are right, but the NGRT is still a part of the Graal forums.

Already been done. A poll is not going to accurately show anything unless every single member of the forums (whether they post or not) were to participate in the poll.


If Unixmad couldn't care less what goes on here, he would not have hired me with the reason being that I am strict, and would run the forums as he wished. I will say it again: I don't do this simply because Unixmad tells me to, I do it because I agree with it. If I did not agree with it, I would quit so he could find someone who would.

Yes, these forums exist for the community. They also exist for the community because the owner made them ;)

Reasonable discussions are fine, and are not bothered.


You can think that I am Unixmad's lapdog just because I am doing a job for him that I happen to agree with if you like, although I fail to see how that makes me a lapdog.
You know, if I think Unixmad is wrong on an issue, I will tell him. In fact, I have recently.
If I didn't have a backbone, the members of this forum would walk all over me, and get by with it.
As soon as you realize that I am doing the job as I am because it is the way Unixmad wants it, and that I continue to do it because I agree with it, I can stop saying it.