Dude, Graal Online has legal ownership of those levels, not 1 player..

MD is letting Snake do what he can with the levels..

Just because someone might of sent you the levels doesn't mean your the legal owner, buddy.

I think it'd be cool if you found all the awesome stuff that me, Shadowless and Matt made for updating bravo, and completed the world in the way it was planned and with the story that went along with it.

Yeah, and Graal decided that they weren't to be used. Didn't you read what I wrote? I'm not just telling you you can't use them, because I said so... I went through the PWA, and it was decided there, they are part of the GO Company. And you shouldn't use it because of what I stated before. It is that hard to understand? Yes, they were made for Bravo... But you're not running the same Bravo it was made for. "Bravo"'s been changed so many times, the name is meaningless...

Personally though... If you ask me, I don't see why you would use this old stuff, it's far too out of date. It seems to me like an attempt at a shortcut to Hosted/Classic status. That's just from my point of view though.

I thought you just said it was Graal Online's...

Here's another perfect reason why no one should get to use the levels and tiles... because stupid crap like this happens. :)

I have legal ownership of White Ninja's utters.

Awesome.

Haunter, I would like for a PWA to state this other then you.
I don't see why we can't use them o_o. They were intended for Bravo, they're going to Bravo. Please can a PWA clear this up. -Thanks

That's what I wanted to do.

What Shadowless said I think those levels should only be for the Bravo it was ment for. The one Thak is talking about.

Ooh, well would anyone happen to have these levels?

It was MoonGod who I went through when he was still around and in the PWA. Go track him down and he'll be able to tell you what went on, assuming he remembers. But the way I see it, if bottom-feeding prats are going to start giving "legal rights/ownership" of levels and graphics when they have absolutely no right to, those levels and graphics shouldn't be used anywhere, what-so-ever. It just stops future problems like:
"But they're mine!"
"No, stupid! So-n-so gave them to me! I OWN THEM! They're mine!"
"OMFG! I'll sue you, you wiener!"

You still aren't listening to me though. Yes, I made them for Bravo. But what you have there, isn't Bravo anymore. Haven't you been paying attention? That's what got them taken off of "Bravo" the first time there was an attempt to use them long after I'd left and "Bravo" and undergone a bajillion face-lifts (a.k.a. Sledgehammer muggings).

I honestly don't care how many times Bravo had a face lift, we're bringing back old Bravo with the new technology Graal has to offer (Gmaps, GS2 etc).
Once again, Moongod isn't a PWA anymore, I would like to hear it from a current PWA before action is taken. Untill then they're on Bravo.
I'm sorry you think they don't deserve to be on Bravo, but it's the only Scrawby levels we currently have, these were the last ones on Bravo (Before the 'street-wise' Bravo)

Bravo all the way...I remember the creator of it all. RacoonDog I believe that was his name. The original owner of Bravo I thought. I met most of my graalian friends today on Bravo back then. The server was about the community and the fun of just hanging out. Basically what Unholy Nation is and the few that remain Classic Graal Nutz. It is all based on the community. That is why I never played Kingdoms because I did not get that feel of community there. So bring it back as I feel it will draw a huge crowd when released.

Thank you for the support Vincent.

I say why not? If they can make the server decent and get players there wouldn't help graal ? I think it would be fun to have an old server like bravo back with community and just hanging out.

Exactly Johnny, I don't see why Haunter has a problem.
It's not like he is going to use the levels.

You know... Now that I consider it, you're right. Truth be told, I'm so confident that any new "Bravo Revival" attempt will be run straight into the ground, as per usual, that I need not worry about my work not being used in the context for which it was meant.

nice i used to play bravo i miss it :(

Is this some kind of opinion? You have not seen new Bravo, so don't judge it.

he is just basing his oppinion off of the other bravo's

Good point, my bad.

I think once everyone sees the hardwork we are putting into this Bravo server, everyone will realized how serious we are.

From the looks of it the "New Bravo" is exactly the same as the one I worked on back in the day.

How many times has that been said before without any real backing? I'm not talking about just Bravo either... Though Bravo's had its share of it.

I see no changes. It looks like realitivly the same group of people, rushing into things... Same-ol-same-ol.

If you truly were "serious" about this Bravo "Revival" you wouldn't be using those old levels I made in the first place. Honestly, they're not really up to the sort of standards that an excellent Playerworld should be working for these days. In my eyes anyway.

The levels are being made better, we're making more use to Bravo.
Jordan (Haunter) just let us get on with it. If Bravo doesn't make it, hell you can have the levels.

Then why not start from scratch rather than restricting yourself by working off of something that's already finished? The tileset doesn't even fit together right in some spots!

I don't want them back, I don't even play Graal... That's not the point. I pretty sure I stated this earlier, but I don't want something I've worked on so hard, passed around, slapped up, abused, or disrespected like some cheap Twi'lek slave wench (Sorry... too much KotoR.) It's not the most impressive content, but I worked very, very hard on it, and it's something I managed to create on my own. I'm rather proud of it.

You don't seem to understand why I don't want the levels/graphics being used... But what I don't really understand is why you insist on using them... Other than, "Because they were made for Bravo!" Which is a crock of bullpocky. I have my theories, but I'll choose to keep them to myself at this moment. So why don't you tell me?

You guys shouldn't be jerks and use Shadowless' levels if he doesnt want you to. :/

You seem to forget, they were made for BRAVO.
They're being used on Bravo no matter what.
-
Jordan, what do you want me to tell you?
Why we're using the levels?

It doesn't matter who made the levels now being once they go into FTP on graal and go online, they belong to GraalOnline. We are not using everything exactly either....a lot of stuff is being done to the levels to make them better.

I don't know all the rules and whether its legal to use his levels and tiles or not.


But, still - he made them, and doesn't want you to use them.

When everyone working on your New Bravo stubbornly refuses to stop using someone elses work, especially on a new unrelated project for what they were originally intended, it gives the server a bad impression, and makes you look like uncaring thieves.


I though, don't mind if you use anything I made for Bravo things on there.

GraalOnline, yes. But you're not an employee of the GO company, you're a customer. What gives you or Andrew, or anyone working at 'Bravo' the right to say, "This part of GraalOnline is OURS". And don't lay the weight of your answer on the simple name "Bravo Online"... I honestly don't think that's good enough. I don't give a flying frell about a name. It's not the same project.

Didn't I just finish saying that that is bullcrap reasoning?

What, did I stutter? Yes, that's what I want you to tell me.

Aww, how cute. This is where me and Shadowless (Haunter, as you narks like to say.) first met. I'll tell you right now, if I saw somone using my tiles on a server when I didn't want them to, I'd spaz. :X This is wrong. Even if Shadowless may have no right to tell you no, are your actions even ethical?

Is it so hard to understand?
We're using the levels because they're the only levels we have for scrawby.
I am still waiting for the PWA to step in and say something, if they don't say anything Bravo is going to use them.

You're cool.
You don't own bravo anymore do you?
No.
Shut up.

respect points going down :[

Ok, I zipped up the original scrawby levels, and I'll attach them.

Just don't be a jerk and keep using Shadowless' stuff, because people will think this new bravo is just a ripoff, instead of thinking that a new cool server might be coming back soon.


Tell me if anything is missing from this zip too.

I prefer to use the new ones, they look better.
Gerami, do you honestly think I care about respect on this game? hell no.
Zoke, thanks for supporting Bravo. But don't be so harsh.. o_o.

Uhm....I don't think we are using anybodys tiles, atleast from what I have seen we are using graal default tile set. Now if we are using other people tiles, I think that is wrong. Levels not as much if they are not being used. Haunter....I would like to know what levels are yours, cause honestly I don't know which ones are yours and which ones aren't....

I rethink my thoughts and honestly I shouldn't of jumped into this conversation with out knowing what levels are haunters. LOL Stupid me. I would like to retract my statements till I see what levels we are exactly using of haunters.

I think all of the scrawby levels are his.
I'm not to sure though.
If they are Haunter I will re-make the levels. (Remove the ones that you made)

So you just don't want to bother doing the work yourself?

And the PWA isn't going to step in... Mainly because there aren't any around... But also because they already have. It's your responsibility to request an appeal before you decide you're in the right.

The snow (scrawby) levels and the new snow tiles (snow covered items (bush, rock, stump) paths, ice tiles, etc) were all altered from the original tileset to fit the snowy setting, or made by me from scratch.

No wait, I think there was a row or two of levels added later on, after I left the Bravo Project I made them for to "finish off" the mountian. Those definatly were not made by me. They were horrid.

I also made part of the green bits below the mountian... Just the part on the far right I think... With that weird bridge/dock that had my wood tiles on it... Not to mention the inside levels around Scrawby. I think there were only caves mostly... And the small map for the inside of the castle... And the tiny rest areas with the cool click-on-click-off lamps.

Those were all my levels... But I'm mainly concerned about the outside scrawby levels, and the tiles used in them.

I never stated I owned Bravo, but I'll accept being cool cutie. Anyways, just because there's nothing else for you to use for this "Scrawby", except Jordans levels, what does it matter? If this is a "New Bravo", make your on work and don't claim others out of laziness. Again I'll state even if the PWA won't step in, can you accept that your actions are unethical? That won't get you anywhere in life with that attitude. Grow up.

Zoke doesn't work on Bravo.

I dont think he cares, and seeing as how he's the brother of Wan and used to be a LAT himself he should know how it feels.

I have learned to follow the rules. I lost an entire server.
Did the PWA stop the server? hell no.
I have decided to re-make them anyway. If you bothered to read above you would know. I will edit my post and make it more clear.