Let me put this into real world examples. Not that it is not anything that actually happened.


South Korea feigns a revolution. It asks Nato for assistence. Nato moves in and overthrows the South korean government. Nato offers the new Korean government to be part of Nato. Korea accepts, and now builds and army while being protected by Nato. Korea now has a giant army, and attacks one of the nations in Nato under the propegandic guise of liberating itself from it's Nato "owners".

The part you don't get is the fact you were going to attack Samurai anyway, no matter what, unless they met your demands and allowed you to dominate their policies.

You were helpful to them:
if they joined the alliance.
[i]if[/if] they didn't second guess the overthrow of their leader
if they didn't second guess attacks on other kingdoms

Any you claim you 'gave' them their independence?

Besides, in your South Korea example, you'd REALLY need to look at the type of revolutionaries your aiding.
As any true conspirators that wanted the Shogun removed were doing so through treachery, it's funny you now complain you were victims of treachery.


I could probably find one or two in Astri (or Ex-Astri elsewhere) that would LOVE some kingdom to come to their aid and ensure a little revolution goes their way.

This, by the way, has been a repeated mistake throughout history, one that has bit US foreign policy in the rear more than once.

Please, though, stop pouting about it. You thought you could exploit cracks in Samurai loyalties to your advantage, and it blew up in your face.

If you weren't prepared for the contingencies, than you shouldn't have attempted the plan in the first place.

busywhatever, the samurai are posting untrue things in an attempt to gather support

I have the right to clear things up

And we were never going to attack Samurai until they asked for help. In the end they are the ones who attacked us. Just in a very weird method.

Well, if Zurki didn't threaten the Samurai, than that must of been a first. I can recall he's threatened just about every other, except maybe the pirates.

The Astri have lost all credibility on this matter.

Too bad that this time we are the ones who are correct and samurai are the ones who are wrong.

subjective opinion

No, it's not subjective if you know all the facts.

They say that they are simply trying to stop our control. But if a) we never had any control b) they were free to leave anytime they wanted attacking us is wrong.

Um what about the innocent lives you claimed when you attacked us unprovoked. What about a whole system you tore down. Especially since the whole reason was to ensure that Samurai was a kingdom who you could control or atleast make sure it was too weak to fight against you. Dont even try to hide this anymore.

Now that's just being silly. It wasn't unprovoked because, wether it was a real cry for help or acted out by the Samurai, people were asking us to help them overthrow you. Secondly, if we really wanted to keep Samurai down, why would we allow the leader full control? Why, when Lyndzey's letter clearly put us in charge of running Samurai, we let Shogun continue to be in full control?

Answer to that!

Ok and once again, the people who asked for help werent real members, they were people who I kicked out. You came in and forced me out of leadership. And without warning you attacked soldiers defending me. That is an unprovoked attack. This is revenge.

if 99% of my members go
"I HATE YOU ZURK"
and I remove them, then it still means that they're going to try and overpower us. Just because you removed them doesn't mean they just died.

I THINK but I'm not sure... but two of those people who weren't in Samurai consisted of Chibi and Lyndzey. The two most reconized Samurai.


Are you Lyndzey? Have you talked with Lyndzey about this subject? I dont believe so because she was the Samurai leader who we put into power.

Why dont you go ask her some of the questions your asking us.. like
"Were we Imperious to you", "Did we take even 0.0001% of the power in Samurai", "Did we just let you rot", "Did we try to control your government", etc...

You want to know the only power Astri had in Samurai? We had the right to choose a new leader if Lyndzey left. Why? Because Lyndzey was saying "If my people want me out of office then I will resign". Not the best words to hear when you're conquering a state for her and she's overhere saying that she'll give it all up.
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And the post about how we would help Samurai if they joined the Allaince and stuff like that... well erm DUH! It's the point of the allaince, you help me and I help you. We never forced them too, they joined on their free will.

You all just want dirt on Astri so you say things such as Evil Dictators, Enslavers of the Samurai and Dustarians, everything.

We treated Samurai just like we treated Dustari. And you can ask Larrien how well we treated them. We helped when they had a problem in politics and other things.
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This thread is going nowhere, they keep arguing the same case over and over again... so can we close the threads "Breakup of the..." and "SAMURAI declares war on..."

Thank you

okay, I suppose I will close this thread. Although I was enjoying it, it's really getting nowhere anymore.