Graal Forums - Whackanoob Dialogue Suggestions

Page 2 of 2

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Graal Forums (https://forums.graalonline.com/forums/index.php)

- Classic Bugs and suggestions (https://forums.graalonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=177)

- - Whackanoob Dialogue Suggestions (https://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134266815)

Crono

07-20-2012 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1699839)

Keep in mind that the reason the spar tournaments were being hosted in the first place was because all the main servers had crashed. Classic may have not suffered a crash, but there were definitely some lag problems in patches whenever this happened.

I can just fraps myself sparring, perhaps there are only certain situations when it happens. We know that UDP is smooth and works fine between two Euros (and should be just as fine with Americans), I'll just spar around with TCP and see how it goes.

Imperialistic

07-20-2012 09:44 PM

Thor, it's almost sounding as if you're being reluctant and totally ignoring our concerns. From your perspective (serverside) the spar system might be flawless, but we are just trying to point out that there is a difference sparring between your server and others. UN might have a shitty system in place, but regardless everyone enjoys sparring on that server because of the way it is.

I'm not saying that your system is faulty and there is errors with it, I'm just trying to state that it's different from any other server and most players don't care for it. And again, no one knows WHY it's different, it just is.. I would love to log on Classic and be able to spar normally without having to figure out a entirely new technique because of the hit detection.

ffcmike

07-20-2012 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperialistic (Post 1699844)

Thor, it's almost sounding as if you're being reluctant and totally ignoring our concerns.

What, by replying with highly detailed explanations and even going through the effort of making a video to prove a point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperialistic (Post 1699844)

From your perspective (serverside)

If you believe I'm implying that this has anything to do with serverside, you are either terribly mistaken or have not been reading my posts properly.
I've been talking about a clientside sword detection mechanism the entire time, whereas the serverside system was the one in place pre-wipe, and was quite rightly scrapped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperialistic (Post 1699844)

I'm not saying that your system is faulty and there is errors with it, I'm just trying to state that it's different from any other server and most players don't care for it. And again, no one knows WHY it's different, it just is.. I would love to log on Classic and be able to spar normally without having to figure out a entirely new technique because of the hit detection.

Once again, the only alleged symptom thus far is an entirely normal behaviour with the default hit detection, and can easily be explained by the recent server lag problems. There is nothing script wise which can account for a higher delay between 2 players, and there is no excessive data synchronisation which could be impeding it.

One other video I'd like to show is regarding how high a difference it makes when 2 Europeans use UDP against eachother, compared to normal TCP:

While I do pull off several delayed hits in the first segment, this is against another European, inwhich we both have a ping averaging around 200, so it's a behaviour I had expected.

With peer-to-peer UDP enabled however, there is a highly reduced delay between us, as not only is UDP faster, but data isn't having to travel all the way to the USA and back to Europe again. Because of this, the hits were nearer to real time.

Hezzy002

07-20-2012 10:28 PM

dude just do what i said they you can diagnose a shitload of problems u scrub

Also, are you doing the sword checks by gani or are you using some other mechanism like triggering the server to trigger other clients to place hitboxes?

ffcmike

07-20-2012 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hezzy002 (Post 1699851)

Also, are you doing the sword checks by gani or are you using some other mechanism like triggering the server to trigger other clients to place hitboxes?

The checks are scanning other players gani on your client, there are no hitbox triggers involved at all.

Imperialistic

07-20-2012 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1699853)

The checks are scanning other players gani on your client

sounds like the problem to me :confused:

Both examples you showed in the video TCP/UDP both seem to be off.
I can only recommend you spar on other servers to visualize the difference yourself.

ffcmike

07-20-2012 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperialistic (Post 1699855)

sounds like the problem to me :confused:

It's exactly what Default does:

Quote:

*Stefan: the old sword hit detection is on clientside
*Stefan: its checking the sprite of the other player and then is hitting yourself
*Stefan: the game is checking if otherplayer.sprite in |9,13|

So there is no reason to believe that would be the problem. Sprites were the predecessor to ganis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperialistic (Post 1699855)

Both examples you showed in the video TCP/UDP both seem to be off.

So in what way are they off?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperialistic (Post 1699855)

I can only recommend you spar on other servers to visualize the difference yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1699750)

I've seen videos of spars on UN and iPhone, tested default early in Classic's development as well as pre-wipe, opened up Dev Polo plus an arena (using default) on one occasion where most of the servers were down, and even sparred against a crowd of people on that place which is considered a taboo

Hezzy002

07-21-2012 01:30 AM

hey

i gave you the solution to stop these people from moaning

so do it

or at the very least

give me a reason why you wont

unless ur scared

ffcmike

07-21-2012 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hezzy002 (Post 1699865)

hey

i gave you the solution to stop these people from moaning

so do it

or at the very least

give me a reason why you wont

unless ur scared

It's a good idea and all, the problem is default cannot be used on Classic as a result of a special server option used by GK and Zone which only Stefan can set, and un-setting it wouldn't be wise. So I'll have to port some systems over to somewhere else, I'll give it a go some time.

xXziroXx

07-21-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1699879)

Testbed yo.

Pandar

07-21-2012 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1699879)

so ur scared

ff7chocoboknight

07-21-2012 01:09 PM

You guys are ridiculous.

Pandar

07-22-2012 02:44 AM

Lol negative rep without a signature.

COWARDS.

LordSquirt

07-22-2012 07:04 AM

I just skimmed through this thread, and I just want to say that as a sparrer on multiple servers as well there IS a difference in the hit detection on Classic compared to a server like UN or N-Pulse.

I don't really have a problem with it since I don't play Classic that frequently, but I have to agree with Crono in stating that there is a difference.

ffcmike

07-22-2012 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordSquirt (Post 1699921)

but I have to agree with Crono in stating that there is a difference.

So any idea what that difference might be?

One point I've been emphasising is that unless someone provides a potentially measurable explanation of what they believe is different, then it really isn't of any use. And if someone doesn't provide any explanation at all, how do I know it's not another case of there being a pre-conceived notion based on the pre-wipe system? Or that their belief stems from an entirely irrelevant factor such as the steps sound within the gani being different?

Emera

07-22-2012 03:27 PM

there is no railroad!

ffcmike

07-22-2012 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hezzy002 (Post 1699865)

hey

i gave you the solution to stop these people from moaning

so do it

or at the very least

give me a reason why you wont

unless ur scared

So I just threw some things together on a default server and simplified them for the sake of conducting a test:

PHP Code:


		
			
//#CLIENTSIDE

function onPlayerEnters(){
  this.initClone();
  this.setTimer(0.05);
}

function initClone(){
  this.clone = this.showani(200, player.x, player.y, player.dir, player.ani.name);
  this.clone.actor.red = 0;
  this.clone.actor.blue = 0;
  this.clone.layer = 3;
}

function onPlayerChats(){
  if(player.chat == "init"){
    this.initClone();
  }
}

function updateClone(temp.x, temp.y){
  this.clone.x += temp.x;
  this.clone.y += temp.y;
}

function attemptUpdate(temp.m){
  if(temp.m != NULL){
    this.updateClone(temp.m[0], temp.m[1]);
    return true;
  }
  return false;
}

function updateAni(temp.g){
  if(this.clone.ani.name != temp.g){
    this.clone.ani = temp.g;
  }
}

function onTimeout(){
  this.runSystems();
  this.framecount ++;
  this.setTimer(0.05);
}
  
function runSystems(){
  
  if(player.hearts == 0){
    this.updateAni("dead");
    return;
  }

  temp.m = ThorRecoil.doRecoilMove(this.clone);

  if(this.attemptUpdate(temp.m)){
    return;
  }
  
  if(this.framecount - this.swordtime <= 5){
    return;
  }

  temp.m = ThorMovement.doMoving(this.clone);
  if(this.attemptUpdate(temp.m)){
    this.updateAni("walk");
  }
  else{
    this.updateAni("idle");
  }
  
  temp.pl = ThorHD.checkSwords(this.clone);
  if(temp.pl != NULL){
    temp.m = ThorRecoil.doRecoil(this.clone, temp.pl);
    this.attemptUpdate(temp.m);
    this.updateAni("hurt");
    return;
  }
  
  if(keydown(5)){
    this.swordtime = this.framecount;
    this.updateAni("sword");
    //The real system does have a 2nd layer of damage checks if you're ending blink time with the slash
  }
}

Having attempted a spar the hit mechanism itself was spot on as I had expected, hits were consistent between my true player and clone display where their coordinates were matched.

However coordinates were very slightly threw off each hit simply by the difference in our custom recoil having pixel-perfect movement values, compared to default recoils arbitrary angles. This was also expected but makes it impossible to do a complete test.

There is also the slight difference that should you walk into the edge of your opponents blocking area, the corner cutting is not the same, but again this is an intentional difference which looks smoother.

Hezzy002

07-22-2012 08:35 PM

You should change your recoil mechanism to match Classic's. After all, you SHOULD be trying to emulate their systems, not improve them.

ffcmike

07-22-2012 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hezzy002 (Post 1699945)

You should change your recoil mechanism to match Classic's. After all, you SHOULD be trying to emulate their systems, not improve them.

While it may not be an exact match, the difference is negligible, and avoids the erratic behaviour I described:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1699754)

As a result of the default level 3 speed being 0.6 tiles per frame, a value which can not be divided into whole pixels, your characters display is rounded to the nearest whole pixel coordinate, which is also the value synchronised to the server and other players, while your actual clientside x/y values remain at decimal pixel values.

Because of this, with default it is actually possible to see your character edge-on with another players sword, but you don't get hit because your absolute x/y value could be up to half a pixel away from that visible edge. The opposite can also be true, the synchronised value may be closer to your opponent than your absolute x/y value, which can result in your opponents client detecting a hit even though you were really up to half a pixel too far away.

Hezzy002

07-22-2012 08:56 PM

Sounds to me like you're just trying to justify things you don't want to emulate, but all the players want you to emulate everything 1:1. Your choice, but I don't understand why you just don't oblige.

ffcmike

07-22-2012 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hezzy002 (Post 1699952)

One of the advantages of having custom systems in the first place is that it enables you to make improvements. If you're going to go by being completely 1:1 then the same argument could be made for example with the respawn invincibility blink, which does affect PKing in a way which is contrary to default, as it prevents a player from spawn laming. The same argument can also be said of allowing players to walk through guild mates or saints outside of competitive levels.

LordSquirt

07-22-2012 10:31 PM

It could be that the server is hosted in a different location, Seattle is drastically different then Dallas/NY or wherever UN and whatnot are

ffcmike

07-22-2012 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordSquirt (Post 1699955)

It could be that the server is hosted in a different location, Seattle is drastically different then Dallas/NY or wherever UN and whatnot are

This was true for quite a while, but now the server was moved to Dallas just 5 days ago.

ffcmike

07-30-2012 08:27 PM

Thought I would post the current standings of this poll:

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4857/hdpoll.png

I'm surprised at there being no votes for the first option (as complaints usually involve hitting others on your screen), with there being so many for the 3rd, it may possibly be the result of the earlier votes biasing the later votes. Either way, complaints regarding the HD aren't so surprising when Classic has a past reputation for having a terrible HD, and the majority of present voters have an incorrect belief as to how it works.

Looking at the list of those who have voted for the serverside option, it is mainly comprised of newer players in comparison to voters of the 2nd option, though there are a few highly experienced exceptions.

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:32 AM.

Page 2 of 2

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page