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MontyPython
04-29-2009, 10:27 PM
Recently I've been thinking a lot about the Event System and the way Event Coins are distributed. I feel like right now, it's not exactly ideal. Yes, I do realize this is the same system that nearly every Graal server has used since the beginning of time itself, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved.

Quick disclaimer: If you don't like reading, just scroll to the bottom, I've summarized and outlined this post at the bottom (even numbered them) for anyone who dislikes discussing concepts, brainstorming in general, or just doesn't like reading. And since this is Era, I suggest that the majority of you just scroll down now.

The first problem I don't like is there's only one person that's going to come out with anything, regardless of what event it is. In a race, that's not so bad. Winner of the race is rewarded. But think of games like Team Deathmatch, supposedly team-based in nature, yet in the end, the actual event coin is going to go to just one person on the team based on a FFA or LMS. It doesn't matter how well that player performed on the team or on the actual Team-based event, as long as he does well in LMS or FFA.

That's a poor way to reward teamwork. And quite frankly, if you think about it, most PK events really are just FFA/LMS with an elaborate, drawn out introduction to thin the numbers. For a new player, this must be incredibly frustrating. My team wins, which means then we're placed on new teams, my team wins again, but then I get rolled in FFA/LMS. Cool, I just wasted 15+ minutes and have walked away with absolutely nothing to show for it.

I think that's why Chance is so popular on Era, it's faster, and it's based on pure luck.

Okay, yeah, I realize some people play events for the sake of playing events, but let's face it, the reward of event coins is the big reason people keep coming back to events.


I came up with a very basic, rudimentary idea for a new events system. This event system would run off Event Points rather than Event Coins. Or, if we still wanted to keep the ECs in the shop that sell for the Event Points. That's a small issue we can work out later, let's move on.

You gain points for participating in events, and of course, winning events. But please note the "participation", because I believe this is vital. I believe everyone should be able to feel like they're making progress towards some event rewards while they play events, whether or not they win or lose. This does not mean that winning the events will lose value, or that everyone can buy out the events shop and there will be no value left in Event Items. Note: This could be an absolute ***** to script, I wouldn't know. Maybe that's why there's never been a change in the system.

Here's the way I see it breaking down. These values I'm going to put forth are just examples, they are obviously not set in stone. Let's say we sell event coins at the shop at the price of one event coin per 25 points. Participating in an event will likely get you a couple points, and winning will give you a substantial amount. Let's give real-examples in current events:

A team-based game such as Team Deathmatch or Free-For-All:
If you kill someone on the opposing team, you get +2 points. This only counts for the first time you kill an account. The next time you kill the same player you will get nothing. However, you're still be rewarded for helping your team out. It'd take 13 unique kills to get one EC, so given the usual playercount in those events, it wouldn't devalue an EC very much.
Now, for resolution in the actual event, you could go another round, I suppose. Or you could give everyone on the winning team +10ish points. That's not a full EC, but everyone on the winning team is getting rewarded for winning. See a pattern? Also, as a side note, perhaps people who did more for the team (more kills, less deaths) could get an extra 2-5 points for helping more.

Now, participation points vary based upon the event. Let's take into account luck based events.

Chance: For each round you survive in chance, you get some participation credit. Obviously you didn't really do anything except pick a lucky box, but hey, that's something. Participation points! +.5 or 1 point. You're making a little progress. You're not getting nearly enough to farm ECs by just existing, but you are getting something for spending time doing the event, even if you lose on the next round or the last round.

Lucky Grab: Same concept, each round you survive you'd get +.5 or +1 point. Since there is a single winner for each of these events, that winner would likely get a good amount of points, say 15-20. It'd more likely be near 15, because they'd also have gotten a good amount of points for surviving each round.

Race events are much trickier to deal with. One idea I've come up with so far is that some races are multi-leveled (box race, bush race, gravity race, etc.). In those races, for each new level you make it to, you get +.5 or +1 points as long as somebody hasn't finished the race yet. Once they finish, it's done. No more participation points. It's just a reason to not type "leave" the second you see a person or two pull ahead of the pack.
OR a much more basic solution would be to have 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places.
1st place would obviously get the most points, 15-20.
2nd = 10-15.
3rd = 5-10.

For longer PK based events that involve less killing, such as a 16 man spar, each kill in that would yield more points than a kill in a large team-based game such as Team Death Match. You could get something around 5 points a kill. Most people aren't going to get more than 1 or 2. Winner of course would still receive his 15-20 points for winning.



Okay, I think I've gotten the concept across well enough. There's still some problems with it. Most noticeably is fitting participation points into every event. Knockout, for instance. Having 1st, 2nd, 3rd in that would be a terrible idea. Get +.5 or +1 points for every 30 seconds you survive? I don't know. Perhaps the events where you can't think of any good participation points could just have higher winner points values. That way, people could in a sense be betting away the participation points they'd likely get in hopes of getting 25-30 points instead of the usual 15-20.

The other problem is, of course, that people are going to be getting more ECs overall. There's a few solutions to this. First of all, have a point limit people can get every 24 hours. Make it reasonable, let's say 50-100 points. This still allows for gifted people to get a good amount of ECs like they would with the old system, but stops them from being able to consistently win whenever events are being hosted, and ruin the chances everyone else has at winning.

And of course, all the points/costs/values would have to be tweaked so that the events balance each other out. So that ETs don't only host TDM because it provides the most possible points, etc...

If it got out of hand, prices could be raised. However, eventually with this system event items are going to lose a little value. But so what? They're meant to mainly be fun toys. Take the instruments, for example. It's good that they're something to work for, but they're ridiculously expensive right now. They were released in a backhanded sort of way. Sweet! Instruments! Too bad most of you will never be able to afford them. And spoiler alert: None of them (except MAYBE the piano because it can go beyond the standard 2 1/2 octaves) are worth their price tags, or the time necessary to get them.

Then events like Battle of the Bands are being hosted, when a large amount of people probably don't have the means to even purchase one instrument, unless they want to sell some of their guns/other riches and buy them for cash. And when event items for the most part are supposed to be fun extras, they shouldn't have to sell their guns or other items actually important to core game-play to have a chance to play instruments.

Okay. That was a mini-novel. If you don't like reading, I'm going to condense.

1) Events and Event Coin Distrubtion right now need to be re-worked. There's only one person that walks away with anything from any event, including "team" based events.
2) Using points that reward both winners and participants in a fair way might be a good solution.
3) These points could either become the currency and buy items with them, or you could simply sell EC for the points.
4) Points would vary based on event (you're going to have to read if you want to see how, I'm not summarizing each event type.)
5) Overall, even if this system doesn't work, I'd like to see a system that encourages both new and old players to play events. Aside from pure luck based games, events are heavily favoring old players. Speed levels in Races, Better guns in PK events...(an axe versus a wooden plank or Kung Fu in Melee Spar), and the list goes on. While that's alright to reward people for playing for a long period of time, people who are new or just suck at events should be able to walk away with some sort of tangible reward for playing events.
6) Event items, for the most part, are toys. They are not essential to core game-play. They do not need to take months to obtain, because, quite frankly, they are not worth months of effort. Fun alternatives, not reasons to play.

Frankie
04-29-2009, 10:36 PM
Sounds pretty good.

I agree though that team related events should award EC to the whole team.

LordSquirt
04-29-2009, 11:01 PM
Regarding your post I personally only agree with some of your ideas.

I do agree in team events that the WHOLE team should get the EC. They all contributed their own role in the event and they should be rewarded for it. However, the only people who should get EC in my opinion are the people who are alive and on the winning team. Therefore, if someone dies, but are on the winning team they still don't technically 'win'.

In regards to you giving 'Event Points' based on participation and etc is what I mainly disagree in. I do see how you are trying to encourage new players into playing events, however, I don't see why they should be given Event Points just for playing in an event.

In response to the high instrument prices. I AT FIRST was going to sell them for money to take some more out of the economy. However, many people were complaining how there was nothing to buy with their ECs, therefore, I decided to turn it into an EC store (Some players, such as Sebastien, had over 500EC somehow). I based off the price of the instruments off the flute which was 30EC. Also, I recently decreased most of the instrument prices.

Frankie
04-29-2009, 11:17 PM
Regarding your post I personally only agree with some of your ideas.

I do agree in team events that the WHOLE team should get the EC. They all contributed their own role in the event and they should be rewarded for it. However, the only people who should get EC in my opinion are the people who are alive and on the winning team. Therefore, if someone dies, but are on the winning team they still don't technically 'win'.

In regards to you giving 'Event Points' based on participation and etc is what I mainly disagree in. I do see how you are trying to encourage new players into playing events, however, I don't see why they should be given Event Points just for playing in an event.

In response to the high instrument prices. I AT FIRST was going to sell them for money to take some more out of the economy. However, many people were complaining how there was nothing to buy with their ECs, therefore, I decided to turn it into an EC store (Some players, such as Sebastien, had over 500EC somehow). I based off the price of the instruments off the flute which was 30EC. Also, I recently decreased most of the instrument prices.
In most team events, if you die you get warped out, so that shouldn't be anything to worry about.

salesman
04-29-2009, 11:26 PM
You spoke to me about this a while back, and I believe it would be a much better system. However, the more I thought about it, I began to realize that it would be a hugggeee amount of work. Not to say I am not up for it, but there's no way it could be done without an entire team of people working on it, and I don't think Deo/Chris would want this to be a priority for everyone (could be wrong).

Anyways, in regards to team events with the current system...I don't think every player on a team should be awarded an EC because that's just way too many ECs that are being distributed. The reward for being on the winning team is being able to compete for that precious EC in an LMS or FFA. :cool:

MontyPython
04-29-2009, 11:34 PM
Yeah, I think that's the biggest issue. It'd be too much work to get a kind of system like that in place.

In response to Squirt, here's the deal, it's not just for new players, it's for everyone.

The way it'd play out is the people who are skilled are still going to come out on top, but people who play well (but not best) also get some sort of reward. They're just like "yeah, you did play". I mean, if the price of an EC was actually 25 points, and let's say you only played chance. Let's also say you never win chance. You'd have to survive at least 25 rounds to get enough points for one EC. That's probably longer than it'd take any player to win an event. It wouldn't be like handing out free ECs to terrible players, it's just a way of making progress even if you had a bad round.

Put it this way, you're in a 16 man spar. You beat every opponent except your last. What do you walk away with? Nothing. You might has well have lost the first round, it makes no difference. With the points system you'd be awarded each kill, and it'd give meaning to each spar, not just the last spar.

The thing about the Event Coin system now is you could spend all day playing events (if they were hosted all day) and leave with absolutely no coins. And for most people, that's exactly what happens, because there's only one winner per EC.

And Sales is right, if you gave the entire team ECs, that wouldn't be balanced, because all the prices are based on one EC won per event.

But yeah, workload. That's the big problem. I don't think it's enough of a problem to merit starting a project like that, just because events are side-stuff anyways.

Oh, also, good point about the flute, Squirt. Now THERE'S an over-priced instrument, hehe.

Frankie
04-29-2009, 11:46 PM
I think at least if there's like 3 people on the winning team, there's no reason to make them fight each other for an EC. I can see if there's a huge battle royal and the winning team has like 6 or 7 people, then that's pushing it.