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View Full Version : Guilds...are they over with?


sssssssssss
04-11-2009, 01:50 AM
This message is going to be more of a plea than anything else. Those of you who love the servers like zodiac and the ones to come like it will probably ignore me completely.
Guilds on graal used to mean something up to about 1-2 years ago. No, there may be no REAL reason for guilds, yes, we can all multiguild, but guilds used to be a very very very large part of graal. It kept us active, we had events, wars, and there was always opposition with other guilds, or alliances. Guilds kept the majority of graal going for a very long time.
Now what graal used to be made alot of is gone. The player counts of servers have slowly drifted. Yes I know many many people have quit in the last 9 years as well, since graal decided to go p2p, and many quit even afterwards. I've been playing graal since 1999, ive watched many friends disappear. But where have most of the player count gone to now? Zodiac and era. These, basically rp, servers have drained out graal from what it used to be. I understand it's different, and can be fun, I played Zodiac for a year, but it's killing what graal once was. There are ALOT of people that used to be in guilds like Veracity, MHX, SM, NBK, BTK, TNR, SDE (sorry if i didnt mention some here) that were really good guild members that are now stuck on Zodiac and Era.
Basically, what I am asking, is that people who play these servers remember how graal used to be fun, in a different way. That graal is almost in the past completely. Don't let it die. If you want to lv up, just go buy a good rpg with better graphics, or pay a whopping $10 a month for a much better online game, but play graal the way it used to be.

kia345
04-11-2009, 01:56 AM
So what you're saying is... Zodiac and Era suck?

I applaud you.

Rufus
04-11-2009, 02:09 AM
I was going to bring this up sooner or later as well. A couple of us have tried to get more attention paid towards guilds and their activities for a while now and they need fixing at a global level. I don't care for trivial things such as in-game guild management systems, but threads such as this (http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62370), this (http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71256), this (http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79336), and this (http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66341) have had no real attention or effort been placed into them from the appropriate staff.

Maybe now that we've got a new guild administrator he'll actually pick up some of these issues and do some research about guilds. It would be nice if Tig opened a dialog for each individual issue surrounding guilds, allowing the community to discuss proposed solutions, bounce ideas off each other, or provide their general opinion on the situation. I know Tig isn't really heavy in guild activity (never seen him in one) so I think it would help a lot. Let's hope things change soon too, because I really miss guilds having an importance.

Motherat
04-11-2009, 02:09 AM
So what you're saying is... Zodiac and Era suck?

I applaud you.

!pissed!

Motherat
04-11-2009, 02:19 AM
Listen, I was in US and I left because our whole guild system is messed up! I tried to script one, but it didn't get uploaded because of my reputation. Ze Cheik Jue NeZtE!

sssssssssss
04-11-2009, 02:23 AM
Even if they fix the many global guild problems, that will not necessarily fix guilds. Mainly, Era and Zodiac, and any alike servers to come (BTW ive been on a few teams there is alot of them) are killing guilds. I dont know if I already mentioned, but there are 105+ people on era tonight, and 85+ on zodiac. Many of those people used to be active guild members on classic, delteria, un, and np. They left because it was something new, and never came back. Yes a better guild system MIGHT make them come back, but again it may not either. It's up to us guild leaders to try and do this. We HAVE to try and get people back into guilds and off those servers. I just sat on era for 10 minutes, and all I heard about was people selling and wanting to buy crap, seriously?! on graal?! cmon, thats not what the game used to be, I know not everyone is like me, but that's [email protected]@# boring.
Its going to be up to the guilds and their leaders to try and recruit, do their own guild activities, and be active again, because its almost too late. I can tell you right now, with the new servers bringing new stuff, it will be over when they release for guilds if no one does anything about it. At least, what guilds used to be anyways.

Rufus
04-11-2009, 02:34 AM
I don't believe that servers such as Era or Zodiac are the cause of the decline in guild activity, nor do I think that they actually contribute that much in the downfall. As these servers have arguably more gameplay than the others, people are obviously going to play them and leave their home servers. If guilds were fixed on a global level it would provide a backbone for servers to appropriately cater for them, and it is up to the servers to provide the gameplay for guilds. Classic hasn't got much gameplay, and they're trying to work on that, but because of the problems facing guilds on a global level it is very hard to offer content for guilds specifically. The problems are evident in the recent thread Guilds and Warring (http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84647), where it was proposed to use a local guilds system in order to avoid them. It's the use of local guild systems on servers like Classic and Unholy Nation that are taking away the purpose of the global guilds, but if support is provided on a global level it doesn't have to be like that.

Matt
04-11-2009, 02:34 AM
I don't even play Era, and i can say they have no part in 'killing guilds'. They pretty just renamed 'guilds' to 'gangs' to match the theme of the server.

Fact 1: Also, the fact that Graals overall daily/weekly/monthly player count has dropped DRASTICALLY from than of the days your referring to, is most likely a large cause in 'killing guilds'.

Fact 2: Alot of the larger guilds from years ago have died due to inactive leader(s). People grow up, attend college, move on to other games, have irl issues, such as yourself. (Not to be rude.) 3 of the guilds you posted above (and most likely is a cause for other guilds) have had this problem, which is why there no longer active on Graal. (E.g, MHX moved from graal to WoW)

I'm against the statements relating to "this server is killing guilds because it's theme has changed", because there's a ton of factors as to why guilds aren't as they used to be. I mean, look at the daily player count of graal, there's just not enough players anymore to keep a lot of guilds active.

sssssssssss
04-11-2009, 02:53 AM
Rufus, you basically explained what I've been saying indirectly. Those 2 servers don't allow global guilds, and they have the largest player count. Granted, people left their home servers and guilds for those servers, but if those servers allowed global guilds, this wouldn't be as hard to get players to stay in the guilds they were in, or recruit. Taking the 2 servers, guilds just lost 200 players [in general, the server counts are roughly the same, which would actually mean a little more players]. Guilds should be global everyone and that would help solve a problem, but that doesnt turn from the fact that the largest 2 servers do not allow global guilds, kinda hard to run a global guild with that.
Matt, repeating the above for you as well, yes, people quit graal, alot, and people come back, alot. When graal went from free to p2p, this was a fear for guilds as well, b/c guilds lost many people, but how many guilds were there then? Alot. and how active were guilds then, heck of a lot more active then they are now. Even with Era 2-3 years ago, the player count on NP was still ok, UN was usually the largest, along with Era, but there was a good player count, and going back 4 years ago or so when delteria was here, maybe 5, it was still about 600 players on graal, like now, but the servers were evened out well.
Again, if you give a crap about guilds, you can try and advert the problem to something you can't help all you want, but the fact of the matter is, guild members and leaders need to try and pull from those servers, otherwise, kiss guilds goodbye when new servers start releasing their new content, along with whats already out there (no offense).

**edit:
to make clear as well, im not referring directly to player count on one server to get better, or for zodiac or era to die. I am simply saying, unless people who care about guilds realize those servers have no help for guilds besides on their own server, the graal guild that everyone once knew will be gone for good.

sssssssssss
04-11-2009, 03:51 AM
Well, yall can sit here and wish that graal guild staff will do something about it. I guarantee you that even if they do, people will still be on zodiac and era, and more servers like that will come (they already are), and guilds will still not get any better. The same people will be on the same servers, doing the same things. There will be no more wars, rivalry, activity, or anything else that will come out of changing the way guilds are run because it will still be the same people that there are now on classic and un in your guild, doing the exact same things. I will not just sit and wait, I hope you do the same.

TSAdmin
04-11-2009, 07:56 AM
I keep seeing parts of your argument relating to "People are stuck on Era and Zodiac" and stuff like that. To be perfectly frank, they are not stuck on those servers, they chose to go there, and did so knowing full well they probably couldn't take their Global Guild tag with them. People make their own choices. I am sure that since you care so much about global guild tags, you probably stick to the servers you choose to be on. Not everyone can, nor will, be just like you and follow the same ideals.

Now, Zodiac and Era may be very different in their themes, but essentially their guild systems are there to fit them, and in this regard they are alike. Nations, Gangs, whatever. They're still an integral part of their theme. If Global Guilds were enabled on either/both of them from the beginning, what happens to their theme? Diminished into people wearing a Global tag rather than participating in the server's culture. A global guild is not a Nation, nor is it a Gang. They just don't fit into those servers. I am sure that neither server ever thought they would become a high-end, playercount-dominant server, either. I know Zodiac didn't, that's for sure. They used to have the Global Guilds enabled, but since it had been a fully developed server where Nations played a big part, the theme took a massive punch in the gut. Disabling Global Guilds was probably what saved that area of their theme, and you cannot blame them for wanting to do so. I have been in guilds, myself, where that is exactly what happened.

I am in no way saying that Graal would be better off without Global Guilds here, but those 2 servers having them disabled makes each of them unique and in some ways a little more fun. A leader leaves, someone takes their place as well. If the leader leaves a Global guild and doesn't pass ownership on, it may very well eventually die out.

papajchris
04-11-2009, 04:38 PM
Zodiac allows guilds, but they call them clans. BTK had a clan on Zodiac for a while, which is like i said, basically a guild. I don't know if any clans last that long on Zodiac though, so i guess that helps your argument? And you are right about guilds. Thinking back to UN, the large guilds were SMK and UNF and then of course other ones in between and that you mentioned. tbh, i think that as the playerbase of Graal gets older, everyone is realizing they dont want to take orders or w/e from some kid over a game.

sssssssssss
04-13-2009, 04:38 AM
good lord, when did i say players were stuck on zodiac and era?
but the fact of the matter is, guild members and leaders need to try and pull from those servers
why would i say that if i said they were stuck there? -_-
No, i am simply saying servers with high player counts that dont allow global guilds, which is what happening, will eventually kill global guilds. They types of servers coming out, again, are like zodiac, ive worked on a few teams now, and they will do the same thing.
can i be anymore direct without having people say i said something when i didn't?

Matt
04-13-2009, 05:12 AM
Global guilds activity (wars, large pk fests ect) have been dead for years. Graal has too low of a player count.

DarkRenji
04-13-2009, 09:19 AM
Its stupid, I dont even want to point out why..

TSAdmin
04-13-2009, 09:42 AM
Its stupid, I dont even want to point out why..

Your post would probably be more helpful if you did point out why, though... Enlighten us to your insight.

sssssssssss
04-13-2009, 04:42 PM
graal has had roughly 600 player count total for a while, like 3-4 years, or longer, it's not the player count if the player count has been the same so long, and yet guilds are dying. Again, people, look at what youre saying first, low "regular" server count, low guild count, low guild activity, low guild membership count (with players that are active), high player count on era, high player count on zodiac. Those are facts, keep trying to argue them. So someone explain again why I'm wrong.

Matt
04-13-2009, 05:09 PM
graal has had roughly 600 player count total for a while, like 3-4 years, or longer, it's not the player count if the player count has been the same so long.

I'm assuming your looking at the 'Player Online:' on the graal page? That has been inaccurate for years. The player count is nowhere near 600. Were lucky to even see 250.

sssssssssss
04-13-2009, 05:26 PM
Almost every night you see 200 just on era and zodiac, usually around 105+ and 85+ every single night except like sunday. Then you take certain parts of the night where UN actually has about 70-80, then the 20 ish on Classic, 40-60 on GK, and about 20 to sum up the reast makes roughly... close to 400 sorry. You can then make an assumption on how many different players that actually equals to throughout the night on the player counts of the servers. Again, think guys. I may have been 200 off on player count, but count the different players that play (which yes is probably impossible for us **to count), ** makes up a little more.

salesman
04-13-2009, 06:23 PM
We're considering redoing the gang system on Era so that anyone can start their own gang...if it happens, I could look into reserving global guild names. I'd also have to find out if there's a way to check for global guilds and/or its members via script though. [Global guilds in general would still be "disabled", but somone could make a gang using their guild name]

I really don't think that would help solve your problem, but I don't see any harm in it either.

People change...games change...it happens. You can't just blame it on the popular servers -- they're obviously doing something right.

sssssssssss
04-13-2009, 07:50 PM
I'm not dissing any server, yes things change, but if some people don't want them to, they need to try, at least try, to do SOMETHING.
I'm probably done with this post, i can say something, then someone will say i said the opposite, or go off on something that, in all logic, doesn't make sense.

Matt
04-13-2009, 08:04 PM
No disrespect of course Cyril, but i think the problem here is that you left Graal, then came back (about 3 different times) without knowing much of what changed. I'm telling you, guilds have not been the same for years, even before Zodiac was open.

sssssssssss
04-13-2009, 10:32 PM
lol, i was only gone for a total of....6 months in the last 3 years, yes, this must be why. People, GEEZE, think. OMG.

Matt
04-14-2009, 01:34 PM
Who are you trying to fool? ^^

sssssssssss
05-01-2009, 10:02 PM
your dog, wtf? I watched Zodiac come in, watched my members quit the servers for it, and never come back. Are you going to try and tell me what happened to guilds and on the other servers when zodiac came out, or before it, when i was here? smart.

sssssssssss
05-01-2009, 11:28 PM
Anyways, this is off topic. Theres another thread kind of related to this, indirectly, i was simply putting my opinion on why guilds are going, not how long ive played graal or left it.

jacob_bald6225
05-02-2009, 01:31 AM
Maybe if you could only join one global guild it would be a good shot in the arm of guild activity.