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ffcmike
03-28-2009, 01:14 AM
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5994/classiclottoposter.png
(Credit to Midi for making this oh so wonderful image)

Some of you may or may not know that over the last few weeks we've been working on a Lottery/Raffle (tbh i'm not even entirely sure what the correct term is, feel free to correct me).

What i wouldn't expect people to know is that the main goal of this is an attempt to remove a mass amount of tickets from players aswell as get some valuable items into circulation, these would include currently unreleased items, some new, some old, aswell as items that are not always obtainable (Bat Form, Love etc), although it also supports the option of one time custom prizes.

The way this works is quite simply that you can buy one Lotto Ticket per GC Ticket, there will be a time of game inactivity inwhich to buy tickets (this is expected to be a 2 week period at first, perhaps reduced if/when new prizes are implemented), and at the end of this time a Machine NPC (this is set to be located within a level at the Castle) will automatically begin to spin the balls.
Before too long 3 balls will emerge from the machine and obviously the number combination is the winner.

I've attached some preview images just to give you all the right idea.
(and yes i am aware that there are 10 ball images within the machine and that the same number can be yielded more than once)

The winning number will always be a purchased ticket number, the maximum amount of overall purchasable tickets per game is 999 but there can only be one winner.
If i were to purchase say 500 tickets, this would give me an excellent chance of winning, but even somebody who has entered just one ticket would have an albeit small chance if winning.

The Prize will always be made clear before each game,
the prize order will be a random generated queue,
this means that an individual prize will be selected at random, removed from the queue, and then once the queue has been emptied it would rebuild itself from the full prize list in random order.

This may not be a lone solution to the whole ticket economy issue,
other ideas may yet be explored but this is something that while an exact release date isn't set just yet (i'm not sure why Ben Rain massed it would be released a certain weekend) could be put into practise soon,
there may well be other uses for the Ball Machine.

This being a forum thread and all means opinions are free to be made,
if this is an idea anyone dislikes i'd like to know exactly why you dislike the idea,
but even if any of you like the idea there is always room for it to be improved,
the more constructive an opinion is the more likely it is to be taken seriously.

xnervNATx
03-28-2009, 01:22 AM
id like to know if the prize are worth it

ffcmike
03-28-2009, 01:27 AM
id like to know if the prize are worth it

Obviously i can't speak for everyone when it comes to the worth of the prizes,
some aren't too different from GC Prizes which you might feel are useless, others are weapons which can cause damage which you may prefer, but you have to consider that with each game there can only be one winner, a game will occur every 2 weeks, and there will be a different prize every time, so each prize will have rarity.

xnervNATx
03-28-2009, 01:29 AM
Obviously i can't speak for everyone when it comes to the worth of the prizes,
some aren't too different from GC Prizes which you might feel are useless, others are weapons which can cause damage which you may prefer, but you have to consider that with each game there can only be one winner, a game will occur every 2 weeks, and there will be a different prize every time, so each prize will have rarity.

is this true. your gonna have trident in prize list

Mark Sir Link
03-28-2009, 01:32 AM
just recently I won the lottery and got a katana

Ares
03-28-2009, 01:37 AM
looks like a lot of time and effort were put into this, nice job. i'm looking forward to it

ffcmike
03-28-2009, 01:39 AM
is this true. your gonna have trident in prize list

It's certainly a possibility,
although i'd rather keep this type of prize to weapons that already have a planned eventual release.
In the case of the Trident this was remade under Massokre in 2006 and planned for Kulls Castle (the tower east of Brothers House + west of Aria/Gerudo Camp).

There are no concrete plans for Kulls currently,
it's had some thought, but nobody has been asked to make anything towards it as of yet.

If the Trident were to be released via its original method of buying it for a few thousand gelat it's safe to assume that everybody would have it, and so there wouldn't be much point in having it as a prize.

xnervNATx
03-28-2009, 01:43 AM
just recently I won the lottery and got a katana

zomg

jacob_bald6225
03-28-2009, 01:49 AM
If the Trident were to be released via its original method of buying it for a few thousand gelat it's safe to assume that everybody would have it, and so there wouldn't be much point in having it as a prize.

If you're doing this to burn tickets good job but if you're doing it to attract players, maintain interest, or boost morale it is a horrible idea. Winning npcs in a lottery is not an accessible gameplay element that will attract players in fact if I were deciding on what server to play I would want one where random events didn't determine who gets what. Random events are not fun, they're frustrating.

StrykerTFFD
03-28-2009, 02:07 AM
RNG gets annoying after awhile. Exciting at first, annoying down the road.

ffcmike
03-28-2009, 02:20 AM
If you're doing this to burn tickets good job but if you're doing it to attract players, maintain interest, or boost morale it is a horrible idea. Winning npcs in a lottery is not an accessible gameplay element that will attract players in fact if I were deciding on what server to play I would want one where random events didn't determine who gets what. Random events are not fun, they're frustrating.

That's a fair opinion but it's not like you'd be being forced to participate, that would be entirely your own choice.
And as you know it is not primarily an attempt to attract new players, but then if it does get some fun items into players inventory, and increase competitiveness within events it can indirectly have that effect, albeit ifs and buts however the same can be argued about any significant update really.

jorollychu
03-28-2009, 02:22 AM
2 weeks is too long

ffcmike
03-28-2009, 02:28 AM
2 weeks is too long
It might be too long, it might not be long enough,
ideally the first game or 2 would eliminate in the region of a few hundred tickets and from then on it would become competitive, but this isn't gauranteed, maybe those with a large quantity of tickets available might only sacrifice a fraction of their ticket total each game but still more than what most players can normally earn through events in that amount of time.
We need to try before we know for sure, and as already mentioned this time period is planned to be reduced eventually.

xnervNATx
03-28-2009, 02:50 AM
im not gonna waste more than 0 tickets in every!

BlackSolider
03-28-2009, 03:21 AM
Sounds like a good way to get rid of some tickets. Good work.

Shadow87
03-28-2009, 04:51 PM
Ya I honestly plan on holding onto my tickets, i might spend 1 or 2 on a ticket and then see my luck, but certainly not going to spend more than that. And, to attract players, well no update has been good enough to do that so far, and I know the newspaper wont, this lottery wont. On the statement thats about creating competitiveness between players, well it might? Thats something im gonna have to see.

BlackSolider
03-28-2009, 05:21 PM
Well the 'competitiveness between players' comes from, I think, the fact that most people have [i]so/[i] many tickets that winning events is really nothing special anymore. Do rich people get excited when they make a thousand bucks? I don't know, I'm not rich.

What I do know, is that people are happy when they get something they don't have, or achieve something they didn't achieve before. So with a reduced ticket count, maybe players will try just a little bit harder to win events because (hopefully) the prizes will be worth it.

Shadow87
03-28-2009, 05:48 PM
Well for that to happen, then GC has to host a lot more, but for that to happen, we need a bigger player count to happen, so really it stems back to getting us a better player count again.
And also, you have to ask, will the people with a lot of tickets want to use them on the lottery? Its like me, i dont want to spend all my tickets on the lottery, maybe 1 or 2, and then ill wait for released GC prizes.

Actually, i think there should be a daily drawing of tickets, then ill spend my tickets LOL, seriously though, i would. The fact of knowing there is a prize waiting to be won at the end of each day is fun. And im not saying it has to be a big prize, you could have like minor prizes during the week, and the big ones on like weekends.

ffcmike
04-20-2009, 01:06 PM
Update:
This is literally about 99.75% ready,
only really waiting on default prize list confirmation apart from the actual implementation of the lottery.

Ideally this would run sometime on the weekend,
ticket buying time is supposed to be 2 weeks long at first (subject to change at a later time),
but for the sake of cutting down delays we could perhaps do a shortened buying time for the first run and have this played either this weekend or the next.

fragman85
04-20-2009, 02:56 PM
I suggest making it so that the player has to be online when the lottery runs, otherwise he won't be able to win anything :o

BlackSolider
04-20-2009, 02:57 PM
IMO frag that is a bad idea. Too many people from different time zones, and perhaps, however unlikely, real life might get in the way.

fragman85
04-20-2009, 03:10 PM
It's supposed to bring up the Playercount :o

Maybe something like at the Weekend players have to go into the Castle (or whereever the Lottery will be placed) to check if they won :p

ffcmike
04-20-2009, 03:17 PM
"The Lottery is commencing".
"1........ yes!".
"6........ come on 4!".
"You have been disconnected from the server".
"Connecting to Classic".
"4".
"Bugger".

trifle
04-21-2009, 05:54 PM
Looks like a pleasure to be using that machine!

Shadow87
04-21-2009, 06:08 PM
Please wait to increase player count

please wait

please wait!

Bell
04-21-2009, 06:38 PM
Please wait to increase player count

please wait

please wait!

This project never was intended to increase playercount. Classic's only economy has always been ticket based. In recent times that economy was ruined and I find this to be a creative way of restoring that. It by far beats plan b of doing a ticket reset (been through that twice now and it sucks) and removing everyone's GC items or having a tiered pricing policy. There will always be a few people that just want to hold their tickets and that's fine. If you want to have 1500 tickets and be able to brag about having the most, go for it! But the rest of us would rather have toys to play with.

Kudo's to the members of the staff team that were involved in this particular project. Whether the release is considered small or large, I don't care. All things done to improve the quality of a server become a part in the overall increase of playercount in time.

Shadow87
04-21-2009, 07:59 PM
Ya bell, I've heard that one before.

Or instead of ripping us all off of our hard earned tickets, they could just keep making fun toys to buy with tickets.

How do you even know people will buy into the lottery? If they realize that they could get more for their buck if the dev was doing what has always been done and just kept updating the GC prize room, we probably wouldn't have a ticket stockpile problem.

Is this complicated? I feel people are taking things to extreme sometimes. For instance this..
"omg people have way to many tickets"
"Oh ticket economy on graal is plummeting!"
"New managers try to think of way to save graal economy!!!"
"Lottery idea thought up! Means to save Graal economy!"
"Lottery implemented! Spend lots of tickets to possibly win a prize!"
"People find out lottery idea is really a scam to make you waste tickets"
"People rather just buy new GC prizes to keep themselves occupied!"
"People pissed about not having any more tickets and not enough new prizes in their inventory!"
"GC prize room useless!"
"GCs being shot to death!"
"Thor and Storm hanged!"
"Someone is made manager!"
"Someone thinks that doing a quest would be a good idea!"
"Classic has a player count!"
"Hoorah for someone!"

...you are all screwing yourselves in thinking this ****s gonna be any kind of fun, they want you to waste tickets, hence the lottery. If you all really want those tickets to goto something useful, just ask them to make new NPCs that are fun but have no point to any kind of story line. They used to do it, now i don't know why they don't want to. I swear classic becomes more and more like Nazi Germany every day.

And keep in mind, the last couple of those quotes are just joking, im serious about the first couple.

BlackSolider
04-21-2009, 08:23 PM
Quick joke.

If this was turning into Nazi Germany, we'd go from a horrible economy where a couple thousand german dollars were worth 1 US dollar to a pretty darn good economy capable of waging war across Europe. People forget that, before starting ww2 and killing millions of people, Hitler took a country broken from the after effects of ww1 and turned it into a respectable economy again. Not saying what he did with that economy was a good thing, nor that he did it all himself, but he certainly played a roll.

History lessons aside, we still need better gc prizes whether this lottery is successful or not.

Shadow87
04-21-2009, 08:28 PM
Glad i wasn't pressing on the economy aspect of Nazi Germany, I was more taking a stab at how DC still really has no care for players like he said he did, its just what he wants gets done.

:) but at least we are on the same page that we need more GC prizes.

See they thought up a more complicated possibly flop of an idea solution, to a problem that had a very very easy solution. Players want more to do, give us more GC prizes, god you can crap those out. Then we'll spend our tickets.

Rufus
04-21-2009, 08:30 PM
we need more GC prizes.

Suggestions?

Shadow87
04-21-2009, 08:34 PM
Im not looking at it as a suggestion, its more you should probably go do this AND make the lottery, atleast then you give players that choice to spend their tickets, and see what they really want.

Rufus
04-21-2009, 08:36 PM
Im not looking at it as a suggestion, its more you should probably go do this AND make the lottery

That is what you call a suggestion. However, what I was asking was if you had any suggestions or creative ideas that could make for good GC prizes? I don't.

BlackSolider
04-21-2009, 08:36 PM
I liked the idea of a portable horse npc that you could change the colors/image of, and that only you could use.

Rufus
04-21-2009, 08:37 PM
I liked the idea of a portable horse npc that you could change the colors/image of, and that only you could use.

Context breaking, removes Tatsumi's promotion of an adventure server.

BlackSolider
04-21-2009, 08:39 PM
Wouldn't being able to always mount your sturdy steed help you go on adventures?

Shadow87
04-21-2009, 08:41 PM
Rufus i said that i won't look at it like a suggestion, because if i was manager, it would be more of an order :)
Something that is probably vital to do.

And why would a horse NPC ruin the idea of having it as an adventure game?

Link had Epona, who came to him at the call of his ocarina.

And i can think up some ideas of GC prizes, but would they make them? If its me suggesting them chances are DC won't let it happen. Hes biased like every other dev admin we have had.

Do you have to be biased to get hired as dev admin?

Rufus
04-21-2009, 08:44 PM
And why would a horse NPC ruin the idea of having it as an adventure game?

Link had Epona, who came to him at the call of his ocarina.

Unlike Epona, the levels on Classic rarely identify themselves. If Epona was placed on Classic I would be able to summon the horse from anywhere, even if was somewhere that a horse couldn't go, simply because you can't identify that stuff. It wouldn't "ruin" anything, but the concept as an event prize is almost Unholy Nation standard.

And i can think up some ideas of GC prizes, but would they make them? If its me suggesting them chances are DC won't let it happen.

What are they? Maybe someone who likes them as a suggestion would take them up and do the work on them? It also makes for a greater strength within your statements when you provide examples.

BlackSolider
04-21-2009, 08:51 PM
You can't use npcs in water I believe, so that should eliminate that problem. Do correct me if I'm wrong though. In addition, elaborate on "somewhere that a horse couldn't go" if water wasn't the only thing you were thinking about.

Shadow87
04-21-2009, 08:54 PM
Excuse me? Have you ever played ocarina of time? That ****in horse will come from anywhere you want it to, and you don't even have to do anything for it , just grow up and you can go and learn the song. Thats not even a quest.

Thats more an event triggered situation that you get epona out of. Rufus , if you don't know about the game, don't try to argue with me about it.

I agree that if we had a horse calling NPC, it should be gotten in a quest, but only because its an excuse for a quest, more side quest though.

And lets see, since you are obviously being a woman about this and demanding answers like you always do. Ill throw some ideas out there.

Nerf Gun LOL
Balloons that could cost a ticket each and you can carry around for a limited amount of time
Pack of cigs
How about Dolls/action figures/figures that could be placed in player houses, or just in your inventory to hold out and show people.
More boots.
Make like a 10 minute staff boot item, player can buy it for a nice amount of tickets, and it will give them the power of running everywhere they want for sometime.
Different NPCs that will show different emotions, kissing, holding hands, i dont know, homo **** like that.
Instruments even, i know UN has em, but does it really matter if we make some of our own?
Make a hover board , much like a skateboard, but without wheels, thats like 100 tickets even.
Stupid stuff is what GC prizes are, stupid, pointless ****, although i like that hover board.

Anyone can think of them, they just gotta get made. Give me more time i could actually think of some good legit stuff, this is all just whatever popped into my mind. I'm lookin at a pack of cigs, hmm...it would be funny to watch a player smoking, come on lets support pixel smoking! Graalmals!

fragman85
04-21-2009, 08:57 PM
I liked the idea of a portable horse npc that you could change the colors/image of, and that only you could use.

Actually PKT suggested that too, I even tried starting this project, but Classic seems to use custom Horses, so I forgot about it really fast again ;)

BlackSolider
04-21-2009, 08:59 PM
I'd buy a pet npc that followed me around, sort of like how pikachu followed Ash around. MAYBE THEY COULD BATTLE OTHER PEOPLE'S PETS LOLOLOL.

Seriously though, if we're going to add npcs (which we need to do,) make them A) good and B) useful. Balloons are cool and all (not) but I want something I can have fun with. Rock paper scissors npc can be fun (despite the LOL animation) because you can play with other people.

Rufus
04-21-2009, 09:06 PM
Rock paper scissors npc can be fun (despite the LOL animation) because you can play with other people.

This (albeit my idea) is what I was hoping the direction of GC prizes would go into. Promotion of interaction between players, but I honestly can't think of any other ideas similar to it. Listening to other people's ideas sometimes sparks things off, such as offering a "link cable" for sale to join the game system (maximus_asinus) but that would possibly be better suited to being sold in a shop I don't know.

Shadow87
04-21-2009, 10:13 PM
That's why with GC prizes, they shouldn't be so much top quality, as they are just fun.

RPS is a good one, mini games is perfect. Make a thumb war, make an arm wrestling npc where the person who jams s the fastest will win.

Stuff like that.

Rufus
04-21-2009, 10:16 PM
make an arm wrestling npc where the person who jams s the fastest will win

I like that one, though I don't know how it could be animated.

Luda
04-21-2009, 10:27 PM
How about having GC prizes in a medieval theme instead of modern fisher price toys.

I put what I feel about these prizes in bold.

Nerf Gun LOL
reminds me of UN

Balloons that could cost a ticket each and you can carry around for a limited amount of time
We have balloon npcs already made that are taken away when you are slashed, I think Thor only wants this for New Years.

Pack of cigs
When me and Exodus made a server together Ibonic told me we weren't allowed to sell cigs.

How about Dolls/action figures/figures that could be placed in player houses, or just in your inventory to hold out and show people.
Not everyone has a playerhouse but I wouldn't mind this.

More boots
Come on..are you serious?

Make like a 10 minute staff boot item, player can buy it for a nice amount of tickets, and it will give them the power of running everywhere they want for sometime.
Stupid

Different NPCs that will show different emotions, kissing, holding hands, i dont know, homo **** like that.
I don't mind this.

Instruments even, i know UN has em, but does it really matter if we make some of our own?
Night already wants instruments, he has something planned i think.

Make a hover board , much like a skateboard, but without wheels, thats like 100 tickets even.
Futuristic=***

Shadow87
04-21-2009, 10:30 PM
LOL okay , the ones i thought stupid were exactly what you thought were, so thats good.

jacob_bald6225
04-22-2009, 12:54 AM
You should be able to equip all 10 balloons at once and drift around the overworld randomly(IE: you float in wind gusts and cant be hit by anyone-- Then you can press D to drop off).

Hell-- maybe even with some control it could implement paratroopers.

EclipsedAngel
04-22-2009, 02:08 AM
You should be able to equip all 10 balloons at once and drift around the overworld randomly(IE: you float in wind gusts and cant be hit by anyone-- Then you can press D to drop off).

Hell-- maybe even with some control it could implement paratroopers.

Wasn't there hot air balloons or something on GK where it made the overworld small?
That looked cool.
Would look cooler if it was on classic.

BlackSolider
04-22-2009, 02:53 AM
Someone suggested a portable card table npc, rather than being stuck inside the card house all day. Lvl 14 card battles, woot!

Luda
04-22-2009, 03:53 AM
Someone suggested a portable card table npc, rather than being stuck inside the card house all day. Lvl 14 card battles, woot!

Lame, piss off with the damn portable npcs rofl

jacob_bald6225
04-22-2009, 05:33 AM
Wasn't there hot air balloons or something on GK where it made the overworld small?
That looked cool.
Would look cooler if it was on classic.

Yah it was about 3 years ago when they "previewed" it-- and said it was only going to be on gold worlds.

MysticX2X
04-22-2009, 06:40 PM
You should be able to equip all 10 balloons at once and drift around the overworld randomly(IE: you float in wind gusts and cant be hit by anyone-- Then you can press D to drop off).

Hell-- maybe even with some control it could implement paratroopers.

Maybe if the flying technology relased.:asleep:

Remonq
04-23-2009, 10:13 PM
Someone suggested a portable card table npc, rather than being stuck inside the card house all day. Lvl 14 card battles, woot!

me.

also: [email protected] that would be kinda awesome

ff7chocoboknight2
04-24-2009, 10:52 PM
Why not put it in that empty room inside the entrance of GC studios? Where the constuction guys are.

BlackSolider
04-24-2009, 11:48 PM
Tis not empty. But its useless at this point, other than the room later on that shows all of the cards.

ffcmike
04-26-2009, 11:47 PM
The Classic Lottery is now public,
come to the West Wing of the castle to either purchase tickets or find out more info.
The current prize list consists of:
Batform,
* LOVE *,
Life Time Bowling VIP Card,
*Conch Shell,
*Fireball,
*Shovel,
*SuperBomb,
*Torch,
*Dragoon Jump,
Morpher.

The first randomly selected prize was none other than the *Superbomb.

Ofcourse the actual running of the game itself will occur one week from now,
this is just the time inwhich tickets can be purchased.
The future time for this to occur really depends on how many tickets get purchased, at the moment it is planned for every 2 weeks.

Ares
04-26-2009, 11:54 PM
i got a feeling luda has the lucky ticket

ffcmike
04-26-2009, 11:56 PM
71 Tickets sold,
up to 929 left to go,
any one ticket could win.

StrykerTFFD
04-27-2009, 12:34 AM
I hope those items get released by other means as well.

Luda
04-27-2009, 12:36 AM
This is the ***est reason to release npcs thor

ffcmike
04-27-2009, 12:37 AM
Most of them are planned to be released in the not incredibly distant future anyway,
in the case of Batform and Love they are temporarily obtainable at specific times of the year (Autumn and Valentines), Bowling VIP Card is ofcourse winnable.

This is the ***est reason to release npcs thor

Releasing NPCs is not the objective.

Nataxo
04-27-2009, 12:41 AM
I bought 3 tickets yeah!

Rufus
04-27-2009, 03:07 AM
Batform
* LOVE *

Holiday NPCs are released in an attempt to encourage players to log on during them. The NPCs are then unavailable after the event in an attempt to promote a sense of rarity to the NPCs, and gratitude for logging on. When you promote that feeling of rewarding for logging on during events, it encourages players to log on with some regularity, if the holiday events are consistent. Why would you release holiday NPCs outside of the specific holiday, moreover why would anyone care? You're essentially removing their purpose and degrading them into random "fun" NPC that you can get from various methods.

Life Time Bowling VIP Card
Why offer a lifetime bowling card if the player doesn't actually deserve it? Again, the lifetime bowling card was an attempt to reward players for actually participating in bowling and building up their skill. If all it takes to gain lifetime access is to have won a few events then you're degrading the purpose yet again.

*Conch Shell

Is the Conch Shell going to unlock a couple of quests for the person who wins it or what? That's all it used to do, well, and make a horn noise. How wonderful.

*Fireball
*SuperBomb

These are both rewards for quests. The Fireball quest is currently being worked on, why would you offer it as a prize in the lottery? It's undermining the development team, because it's all for naught if you can get the prize willy nilly from a lottery. In addition to this, will these prizes be disabled in events? One person having that kind of advantage doesn't really go well against the promotion of "fairness" that has gone on for years.

*Shovel
I don't understand why you would release a Shovel before it had a few actual purposes. To then go on and release a few purposes for the Shovel at a later date will have the same effect as the Rat Form rat holes.

*Torch
What is the point in having a Lantern and the Torch on the server?

Morpher

So instead of readding the Morpher to the server because of a quest that you added, you're releasing it as a Lottery Prize? Lol.

Most of them are planned to be released in the not incredibly distant future anyway

So what is the point in players buying tickets for the lottery? Be the first person to get the NPC? What happens when they're released via their appropriate distribution channels such as quests? Does the player get nothing for doing them, or is the quest just unavailable for them? It doesn't exactly make for interesting quests with basic adventure features such as backtracking if you've already got the NPC. This is so contrived and a pretty embarrassing cop-out to be honest.

Luda
04-27-2009, 03:12 AM
Lottery Prize Suggestions:
-portable ctf
-portable bank
-portable horse
-portable bench (upgraded chair)
-portable mystic
-portable jail cell

ffcmike
04-27-2009, 03:37 AM
Holiday NPCs are released in an attempt to encourage players to log on during them. The NPCs are then unavailable after the event in an attempt to promote a sense of rarity to the NPCs, and gratitude for logging on. When you promote that feeling of rewarding for logging on during events, it encourages players to log on with some regularity, if the holiday events are consistent. Why would you release holiday NPCs outside of the specific holiday, moreover why would anyone care? You're essentially removing their purpose and degrading them into random "fun" NPC that you can get from various methods.

The Lottery isn't exactly a give-away,
by the time these Holiday NPCs are available again maybe a handful of people may have earned them with this method, it's just a potential speedy method of obtaining it with the large risk of being empty handed, hardly degrading.


Why offer a lifetime bowling card if the player doesn't actually deserve it? Again, the lifetime bowling card was an attempt to reward players for actually participating in bowling and building up their skill. If all it takes to gain lifetime access is to have won a few events then you're degrading the purpose yet again.

Again, it's not like absolutely everyone is going to end up with this Weapon, but for those that do there's a chance it might encourage them to start Bowling again because there's no hassle of spending gelat towards lanes.



Is the Conch Shell going to unlock a couple of quests for the person who wins it or what? That's all it used to do, well, and make a horn noise. How wonderful.

This is just something that was planned for an eventual quick release anyway,
you wouldn't expect it to wow anyone under normal circumstances but this method gives the rarity factor to this item.


These are both rewards for quests. The Fireball quest is currently being worked on, why would you offer it as a prize in the lottery? It's undermining the development team, because it's all for naught if you can get the prize willy nilly from a lottery. In addition to this, will these prizes be disabled in events? One person having that kind of advantage doesn't really go well against the promotion of "fairness" that has gone on for years.

Again, just a speedier method of obtaining it before it becomes widespread,
DC has agreed with them being prizes so hardly undermining the Dev Team.
And yes it will be disabled within events.


I don't understand why you would release a Shovel before it had a few actual purposes. To then go on and release a few purposes for the Shovel at a later date will have the same effect as the Rat Form rat holes.

You could call it a portable bush,
i'm sure some people would appreciate that.


What is the point in having a Lantern and the Torch on the server?

The Torch is like an upgrade to the Lantern,
you can damage and burn other players with it,
and even spread fires across objects (bushes, signs, healthpots etc),
players on fire temporarily cannot use fire weapons.


So instead of readding the Morpher to the server because of a quest that you added, you're releasing it as a Lottery Prize? Lol.

Until it gets re-added, yes,
I don't see why that's funny.


So what is the point in players buying tickets for the lottery? Be the first person to get the NPC? What happens when they're released via their appropriate distribution channels such as quests? Does the player get nothing for doing them, or is the quest just unavailable for them? It doesn't exactly make for interesting quests with basic adventure features such as backtracking if you've already got the NPC. This is so contrived and a pretty embarrassing cop-out to be honest.

When the NPCs get released theres no reason Quests would be unavailable to them, if they choose not to go ahead with the Quest so be it, some might even prefer that, plus we can always make Chests reward seperate items to those already with the prize like Zelda.

StrykerTFFD
04-27-2009, 03:42 AM
portable bush


*snicker*

Nataxo
04-27-2009, 03:44 AM
whats with the portable stuff?

Rufus
04-27-2009, 04:04 AM
The prizes are collectively an excuse to release NPC's in an attempt to reduce the tickets in the economy, but I don't understand how that is justified when all you're essentially gaining is some kind of contrived bragging rights. I know some people who have wasted their tickets at current "just because" but I don't see how you expect players to be dumb enough to bid for items with their tickets on a constant basis that they can get for free in the future. To me, the lineup of quest items just looks like a substitute for lack of creativity.

The Lottery isn't exactly a give-away,
by the time these Holiday NPCs are available again maybe a handful of people may have earned them with this method, it's just a potential speedy method of obtaining it with the large risk of being empty handed, hardly degrading.

Oh when you put it like that, it all makes so much sense. "You're essentially removing their purpose and degrading them into random "fun" NPC that you can get from various methods." They're holiday NPCs.

Again, it's not like absolutely everyone is going to end up with this Weapon, but for those that do there's a chance it might encourage them to start Bowling again because there's no hassle of spending gelat towards lanes.

It's like adding the CTF Trophy or the Egg Hunt Trophy as a prize that you can win. You're being rewarded for having skill with things like this, winning a prize in a lottery is not a skill, nor does it reflect it.

This is just something that was planned for an eventual quick release anyway,
you wouldn't expect it to wow anyone under normal circumstances but this method gives the rarity factor to this item.

You're expecting an NPC that only one person has first during a short amount of time (that does absolutely nothing of use) is going to hype the useless NPC up through some kind of boasting? What the hell?

Again, just a speedier method of obtaining it before it becomes widespread,
DC has agreed with them being prizes so hardly undermining the Dev Team.
And yes it will be disabled within events.

"Hey guys, the development team aren't working fast enough so we're going to give you the opportunity to win the prize before it's out!"

That's essentially the message you're giving off here, because they're currently working on the quest. It's not even a type of teaser or a means of hyping the future quest, it's more like a spoiler. "This is what you're going to get in the new quest, get bidding yo!" I wasn't aware that quests were just a means of gathering items, and that's certainly not how most new players I talk to I see them. Quests are supposed to be an adventure, and somehow the mystical Fireball and Superbomb NPCs have shown up in the castle, but if you don't win them it doesn't matter because it's ALSO in a quest? Right.

You could call it a portable bush,
i'm sure some people would appreciate that.

Not seeing the humor here.

The Torch is like an upgrade to the Lantern,
you can damage and burn other players with it,
and even spread fires across objects (bushes, signs, healthpots etc),
players on fire temporarily cannot use fire weapons.

How does a Torch upgrade into a Lantern?

Until it gets re-added, yes,
I don't see why that's funny.

Because it's a cop-out?

When the NPCs get released theres no reason Quests would be unavailable to them, if they choose not to go ahead with the Quest so be it, some might even prefer that, plus we can always make Chests reward seperate items to those already with the prize like Zelda.

If you're going to release additional NPCs in quests as a replacement for an item that you bought in the lottery, why don't you just add those NPCs to the lottery? Why would someone choose not to do a quest if the quest prize was something that they had purchased from the lottery? "It doesn't exactly make for interesting quests with basic adventure features such as backtracking if you've already got the NPC." I don't see how that logic is "like Zelda" either.

BlackSolider
04-27-2009, 05:00 AM
Guess its impossible to please everyone.

Shadow87
04-27-2009, 05:10 AM
I honestly didn't bother reading what Rufus had to say.

But all of this really just confirms for me this is just a dumb excuse to have people spend tickets.

I much prefer new GC prizes.

So two things.
Location = sucks, i hate going to the castle thats just me though, keep that in mind.
Prizes = Well i have a couple of those, not to interesting of a prize list to say the least.

And glad it IS possible to please everyone, but also this is how games go. Developers stick to how they want to make the game, the structure, the story, everything else to it, and they make it.

They don't take player suggestions/ideas, or playermade stuff. They make it all themselves because that is their job, and the ending product is a full game.

This is what i suggest dev do, because this stuff really is just getting pathetic, and thor i really mean no offense to you I know you are trying, that shows. But stop listening to us really, now i see it just isn't helping lol. I think you and storm need to have a sit down and really discuss what has to be done now. Create a structure to classic, get a basis and you two can go from there.

And remember, its yours and storms decision what happens with classic, DC is basically your *****, yes he can have ideas and such, but if you look at it from the view that you and storm are the managers, what you say goes right?
So again, create a story, make content based off that story, go from there, or go from whatever you have. But this stuff like the card game, and the lottery, it just isnt like the old classic and i think the best thing to do is get to that point again. This might not make sense, but hopefully Thor can get it.

MysticX2X
04-27-2009, 05:11 AM
The thing about releases is that they don't please everyone. The lottery is there as an attempt to clean up tickets. If you're unsatisfied with the items, you don't necessarily have to buy a ticket or even acknowledge the lottery. It's something to look forward to on Classic at least, and better than do nothing.

Though in the end, I think Storm's idea probably was the most ideal one to go with (Thread is somewhere in the first or second page of the Classic forum).

Luda
04-27-2009, 09:14 AM
STUFFZ

wh0z 1d3a wuz dis?

1t was th0rz 1d3ait was Thor's idea
no 1 sU6635t3d it no one suggested it
no 1 @s|<3d 4 it no one asked for it
no 1 bUm][D3d as|<1n6 4 it no one bumped asking for it
$0 w|-| 7|-|3 w0U1|) u $0|\/|3|-|0w c0|\|c1U|)3 7|-|47 7|-|3 $|-|0U1|) $70|> 1!$73|\|!|\|g 70 U$ 4|\||) $74r7 |)0!|\|g 7|-|3!r 0w|\| 7|-|!|\|g w|-|!c|-| 7|-|3r3 |)0!|\|g 4|\|w4
so why would u somehow conclude that they should stop listening to us and start doing their own thing, which they're doing anyway

xnervNATx
04-27-2009, 03:38 PM
wh0z 1d3a wuz dis?

1t was th0rz 1d3ait was Thor's idea
no 1 sU6635t3d it no one suggested it
no 1 @s|<3d 4 it no one asked for it
no 1 bUm][D3d as|<1n6 4 it no one bumped asking for it
$0 w|-| 7|-|3 w0U1|) u $0|\/|3|-|0w c0|\|c1U|)3 7|-|47 7|-|3 $|-|0U1|) $70|> 1!$73|\|!|\|g 70 U$ 4|\||) $74r7 |)0!|\|g 7|-|3!r 0w|\| 7|-|!|\|g w|-|!c|-| 7|-|3r3 |)0!|\|g 4|\|w4
so why would u somehow conclude that they should stop listening to us and start doing their own thing, which they're doing anyway


*lol*

Shadow87
04-27-2009, 05:02 PM
Because they are telling us they are listening, and trying to, but failing miserably at it. So instead, thor and storm need to take the reigns, think of an idea, stick to it, and start barking orders and manage the real way.

Development is there to create their image.

MysticX2X
04-27-2009, 07:08 PM
wh0z 1d3a wuz dis?

1t was th0rz 1d3ait was Thor's idea
no 1 sU6635t3d it no one suggested it
no 1 @s|<3d 4 it no one asked for it
no 1 bUm][D3d as|<1n6 4 it no one bumped asking for it
$0 w|-| 7|-|3 w0U1|) u $0|\/|3|-|0w c0|\|c1U|)3 7|-|47 7|-|3 $|-|0U1|) $70|> 1!$73|\|!|\|g 70 U$ 4|\||) $74r7 |)0!|\|g 7|-|3!r 0w|\| 7|-|!|\|g w|-|!c|-| 7|-|3r3 |)0!|\|g 4|\|w4
so why would u somehow conclude that they should stop listening to us and start doing their own thing, which they're doing anyway


A ticket solution was suggested for a long time.


@Tats: Thanks for making Dev sound like some slave tool.

BlackSolider
04-27-2009, 08:27 PM
Managers agree on a vision of what classic should be based on input from the players along with their own thoughts, and then the dev team goes and makes it happen, no?

MysticX2X
04-28-2009, 04:36 AM
That isn't how Tatsumi said it tbh but w/e.

acaremon02
04-28-2009, 09:09 AM
Wow, every thread I've read with a different title is talking about the same thing.

anyways,

Lottery Prize Suggestions:
-portable horse

I like that idea.
Maybe in the prize store, we can sell different model of portable horses..
Like the mintocat horse :P

Luda
04-28-2009, 10:15 AM
Wow, every thread I've read with a different title is talking about the same thing.

anyways,



I like that idea.
Maybe in the prize store, we can sell different model of portable horses..
Like the mintocat horse :P

lol i was being sarcastic :p

Shadow87
04-28-2009, 05:44 PM
Wow, every thread I've read with a different title is talking about the same thing.

anyways,



I like that idea.
Maybe in the prize store, we can sell different model of portable horses..
Like the mintocat horse :P

Well yes, that is because I want people to get the point already :)


@Mystic- Not a slave tool, but a work force. Everyone needs to sit down for a good team building. It would seem mystic that you have never had a real job, because any job, in a game that you don't get money for working on, or at an actual job you get paid for, there still always is a boss. DA BOSS! So in our case, Thor, and sadly, Storm. Development is lead by DC, who is UNDER Storm and Thor. Thor and Storm should be creating the concepts, even DC, creating a structure as i type this, that is what should be going on right now. I doubt that it is, but all in all, Development is a staff division under DC, who is under thor and storm. GC, under Night, who is under Thor and Storm. Ranger, under those two, and Stryker, under those two. Really thor and storm could control all the divisions if they really wanted to, but that is quite the load to handle. So they have 4 people to do that for them.

So again, not a slave team, but a staff division/work force. Come on , you should know that.

And Gladius, Managers should create the image for classic, what its going to be about. They should not be taking input from players...look where it got us. They should create the structure, and then yes, Development should make it. IF not that, what is development here for?

BlackSolider
04-28-2009, 07:41 PM
And Gladius, Managers should create the image for classic, what its going to be about. They should not be taking input from players

So managers aren't supposed to take input from players, and yet you're trying to tell them to turn classic into a quest-driven server? Something doesn't quite add up.

Besides, if they don't listen to the players, will the players ever be happy or feel important? The basic theory of a democracy is that the people are happier because their voice is heard, even if it is the minority party or viewpoint. Now obviously classic is far from a democracy, but unless the people feel a part of the community, they don't have any stake in it, and thus don't feel compelled to stay.

xnervNATx
04-29-2009, 05:39 AM
So managers aren't supposed to take input from players, and yet you're trying to tell them to turn classic into a quest-driven server?

a certain server called graal the adventure was "popular" because of the quests its had. if classic cant have that , then put it in the bin.

acaremon02
04-29-2009, 06:38 AM
lol i was being sarcastic :p

Why, it would be so awesome.

It's so damn "classic" compared to those convertibles UN/Era people drive.

Shadow87
04-29-2009, 07:02 AM
Actually gladius, I am just saying the wise choice to make would be to create the quests. They don't have to listen to me. Its their choice.

BlackSolider
04-29-2009, 07:08 AM
Indeed it is.

Cetellic
04-29-2009, 08:16 AM
If you ask me Managers shouldnt really be ASKING for player opinion, they should have their own idea of how to work things and their own plan, and if some player goes "hey it'd be cool if" the manager would listen and consider what the player suggested.

MysticX2X
04-29-2009, 01:11 PM
@Mystic- Not a slave tool, but a work force. Everyone needs to sit down for a good team building. It would seem mystic that you have never had a real job, because any job, in a game that you don't get money for working on, or at an actual job you get paid for, there still always is a boss. DA BOSS! So in our case, Thor, and sadly, Storm. Development is lead by DC, who is UNDER Storm and Thor. Thor and Storm should be creating the concepts, even DC, creating a structure as i type this, that is what should be going on right now. I doubt that it is, but all in all, Development is a staff division under DC, who is under thor and storm. GC, under Night, who is under Thor and Storm. Ranger, under those two, and Stryker, under those two. Really thor and storm could control all the divisions if they really wanted to, but that is quite the load to handle. So they have 4 people to do that for them.

So again, not a slave team, but a staff division/work force. Come on , you should know that.

Dev is a non paid work force. Your superiors really shouldn't order you around in that case. Getting paid is on a whole other level.

Also Manager's should make their decisions BASED on player opinion.

Cetellic
04-29-2009, 03:06 PM
Also Manager's should make their decisions BASED on the best course of design.

Fixed :D

BlackSolider
04-29-2009, 03:40 PM
The people in power have to do what is best for the server. Obviously that is opinionated, but it should be easier to figure out if you get enough thoughts together and decide on something that will make the majority happy. After all, if the people aren't happy, then they aren't having fun and thus they don't have a reason to stay.

Shadow87
04-29-2009, 07:28 PM
Mystic you obviously did not read what I said.

Paid or not paid, a manager is a manager, if he is not, then why the hell are we calling the dream team of thor and storm managers?

They are called managers because they manage the staff divisions and the server, i'll say it again, they should create the structure and basis, and its up to them to get that design down, get it going with the Dev admin, and then its Dev admins job to make sure the development team is working on time and meeting dead lines.

Sadly, for some reason, we are all against dead lines, people cry and moan when given them, even though they chose to sign up for the job. So i feel that is also a good reason we will never ever see anything good out of classic, ever, ever again.

And no, I do not care about their lives, I do not care what other lame crap they do or have to do, i do not care about their school either. If they signed up for the job, they should be prepared to do whatever it is they gotta do. If there was a good structure and design and plans for classic from the managers and dev admin, then it wouldn't be such a problem to give deadlines and have them met. And yes i do understand that its hard to replace people, but them tough ****, doesn't mean they don't have to work, if that's the case you are better off closing classic.

BlackSolider
04-29-2009, 08:27 PM
Yes, they agreed to the job. Yes, they should be prepared to work on stuff they might not be thrilled with. Yes, we need a better structure and plans.

But lets be honest here. What motivation do dev people have to do their job? No pay. No thanks. *****y bosses. *****y players. Here, I'll give an example: Manager: "Hey, I think this is what classic needs, so spend your free time working on it and have it done by saturday, no excuses." Really? If the dev person doesn't like the idea, or has stuff to do irl, what is motivating them to actually spend their free time doing it? Maybe the dev person likes castles, and you're asking them to make a cave. Not gonna work.

Yes tats, they signed up for the job and should be expected to get the work done in a timely manner. But really, what motivates these people to spend their free time working on graal stuff? They get nothing out of it (other than the satisfaction of their work being released and enjoyed by the public, but of course this only happens if they want to work on that project,) except another job assignment. What motivates a GC to host in their free time? When events are fun to watch or host, thats what. When players are *****ing the entire time or you're hosting a lame event, you really don't have that much motivation. So what motivates dev people? Do they find staring at the graal editor to be fun? Do they find spending hours typing g-script lines fun? I can't imagine it is for most people.

Point is, people are motivated to work when its fun, or at least if they get paid. Should they have signed up for the job if they weren't gonna stick it out through the tough times? Perhaps not. But you can't expect people to work hard when they get absolutely nothing out of it, whether they have some responsibility or not.

Gah, there I go rambling again.

Shadow87
04-29-2009, 09:12 PM
So ok no motivation to work, nothing gets produced. So lets just give players powers and let them go do whatever and hope that they make stuff we can use.

Great. Thanks for making it clear glad.

DutchGuy
04-29-2009, 09:22 PM
Yes, they agreed to the job. Yes, they should be prepared to work on stuff they might not be thrilled with. Yes, we need a better structure and plans.

But lets be honest here. What motivation do dev people have to do their job? No pay. No thanks. *****y bosses. *****y players. Here, I'll give an example: Manager: "Hey, I think this is what classic needs, so spend your free time working on it and have it done by saturday, no excuses." Really? If the dev person doesn't like the idea, or has stuff to do irl, what is motivating them to actually spend their free time doing it? Maybe the dev person likes castles, and you're asking them to make a cave. Not gonna work.

Yes tats, they signed up for the job and should be expected to get the work done in a timely manner. But really, what motivates these people to spend their free time working on graal stuff? They get nothing out of it (other than the satisfaction of their work being released and enjoyed by the public, but of course this only happens if they want to work on that project,) except another job assignment. What motivates a GC to host in their free time? When events are fun to watch or host, thats what. When players are *****ing the entire time or you're hosting a lame event, you really don't have that much motivation. So what motivates dev people? Do they find staring at the graal editor to be fun? Do they find spending hours typing g-script lines fun? I can't imagine it is for most people.

Point is, people are motivated to work when its fun, or at least if they get paid. Should they have signed up for the job if they weren't gonna stick it out through the tough times? Perhaps not. But you can't expect people to work hard when they get absolutely nothing out of it, whether they have some responsibility or not.

Gah, there I go rambling again.

your testimony proofs how people have changed during the years, where in graals early days people would love to make content, nowadays no one is motivated. Could it be the greed of mankind?

Rufus
04-29-2009, 09:25 PM
I am yet to see a justification for using quest prizes in the lottery. I'll assume it is just laziness and a lack of creativity then after all.

Point is, people are motivated to work when its fun, or at least if they get paid. Should they have signed up for the job if they weren't gonna stick it out through the tough times? Perhaps not. But you can't expect people to work hard when they get absolutely nothing out of it, whether they have some responsibility or not.

Try having fun with the misanthropic administration.

BlackSolider
04-29-2009, 10:25 PM
@ the flying Dutchman

Perhaps it could be greed. Perhaps anyone who truly had fun on graal, or at least making stuff for it, has moved on to bigger, nerdier things.

@ Rufus

Had to look up misanthropic. So we're going to point to [Synonyms:
1. antisocial, unfriendly, morose, surly.] bosses as the problem why people aren't motivated to work? Or am I misinterpreting your statement?

@ Tats

Real life example: how many people hate their jobs but keep doing it because they need the money? How many people actually get up early and look forward to work? We need to find a way to encourage the later and thus get rid of the former. Instead of saying "oh damn, I have that stupid cave quest to do," we want our devers to say "oh damn, this quest of mine is totally gonna rock because it was fun to make and thus I put a lot of effort into it." How do we do that exactly? Well you're asking the wrong person, but we have to find a way to motivate our dev team.

Shadow87
04-30-2009, 05:13 AM
Actually i love my job, and i would do it without pay.

And you know what, you gave me a great thought, think of video game developers, anyone who works with video games...they love their ****ing job, love it.

I know a guy who worked for konami, he said all he did was test games and he loved it.

They would do it without pay.

And you know what, Bosses should motivate their workers, they are there to motivate. So it is really partly their fault if their staff isn't motivated to work.

acaremon02
04-30-2009, 10:03 AM
I know a guy who worked for konami, he said all he did was test games and he loved it.



Please introduce me to this guy. I want his job.

MysticX2X
04-30-2009, 01:42 PM
Well he did test games people were paid to make.

BlackSolider
04-30-2009, 02:41 PM
That sort of proves my point tats. If people love their job, they're more than willing to do it (with or without pay sometimes.) If people don't love their jobs, most of the time payment is the only thing keeping them at that job.

Apparently some of our dev team doesn't love deving as much as your example loved testing video games. Can't blame em.

Shadow87
04-30-2009, 06:07 PM
Even video game developers love their jobs. IF THEY ARE GOOD AT IT.

If they hate it, then they shouldn't have that power that they have, why have it if they aren't going to develop? If they were good at it and it came easy to them, they would most likely love their job.

So you are still missing the point gladius, doesn't matter what kind of job, but im just using video game developers because duh, that's what our development team should be doing. Developing this video game.

And midi, you can become a video game tester for any company, just look for one.

BlackSolider
04-30-2009, 07:31 PM
A person might be good at math, but they sure as hell might not like spending hour after hour working on math problems. Not saying that they couldn't like it, but certainly they don't have to.

Shadow87
04-30-2009, 07:37 PM
If you like math, you are most likely a math teacher, or doing something that involves doing math, therefore you are doing math for hours and hours anyway.


I don't want to have to keep saying this, but it seems people are really really dense in the head.

They chose to be development, so they should put in the effort and work.

It doesn't get much clearer than that. Stop with the bull**** excuses, stop with the petty *****ing about me demoralizing them, i do it for fun because they have trashed classic and its not been fun really since tyhm.

Put out something good, start being smart about it, start thinking pro actively about what will happen once this certain content is released.

Then ill shut my big mouth and quit being an *******, until then, you all can also stop being so stupid and open your goddamn eyes.

Oh and btw, I just did the lottery for the first time. What a ****ing joke, good job screwing another thing up.

When you play lotto, you never, NEVER get numbers that are consecutive. Decreases your chances right away. Besides, if people are dumb and decide to spend all their tickets on it, then eventually the lottery will flop as well because GC does not host.

BlackSolider
04-30-2009, 07:45 PM
GC does not host with playercounts less than 10, which is what we usually have now adays.

jacob_bald6225
04-30-2009, 08:18 PM
When you play lotto, you never, NEVER get numbers that are consecutive. Decreases your chances right away. Besides, if people are dumb and decide to spend all their tickets on it, then eventually the lottery will flop as well because GC does not host.

Lies each number is a new drawing which is a separate event from the others...

1-2-3 is just as likely as 12-42-19

Cetellic
05-01-2009, 03:22 AM
I deal with random numbers alot and I approve of the above post.

The people in power have to do what is best for the server. Obviously that is opinionated, but it should be easier to figure out if you get enough thoughts together and decide on something that will make the majority happy. After all, if the people aren't happy, then they aren't having fun and thus they don't have a reason to stay.

Too many cooks spoil the meal. You want to take a single idea, create it, then evolve it with beneficial ideas.

Knowing how to make something good and just making it is alot better then going by player opinion.

BlackSolider
05-01-2009, 03:44 AM
But isn't the definition of "good" an opinion? A new overworld was a "good" thing to Hell raven, and we all know how successful that project was.

Obviously the person in charge has some creative ideas in their head, but their vision of classic might not be "good" to some players, and thus they will be unhappy. When a cook makes a meal (talking about having people over for dinner,) they try to make something that everyone will be pleased with, whether it is "good" to them or not. If they make a super-duper salmon dinner or something, it might be good to them, but if the people don't like salmon it doesn't matter how good it is, the people won't be happy.

Cetellic
05-01-2009, 03:49 AM
The problem isn't that there is a new overworld, it's that the overworld is not being taken an advantage of. A bigger overworld is fine, as long as you know what you're doing with it. Hell Raven apparently built a stepping stone for us that no one wants to build upon, he probably could've did more with it himself if he kept deving on Classic.

MysticX2X
05-01-2009, 03:51 AM
Obviously Clel doesn't get that decisions should be made based on player opinion. You find a medium with player input and then go on and choose an idea from there. This game was originally "for the players, by the players", but if two people are going to decide the fate of a server, that isn't really by the players.

I mean, why wouldn't managers decide based on player opinion? Gladius made a point with Hell Raven's idea.

BlackSolider
05-01-2009, 03:58 AM
Clel I wasn't talking about the overworld. I was talking about the overworld project as a whole. Hell raven thought it was a "good" idea. What did the public think about it at the time? I don't recall, but the point is, if the management doesn't ask the players opinions, then whatever projects they do attempt, it will look good to them, but perhaps not the players. When it doesn't look good to the players, they won't use it.

Say a manager decides to design a new town without asking players. To the manager, it could be the greatest idea in the world. To the players, who weren't asked what they'd like, it could be the biggest waste of time in the world. Perhaps they'll like the idea. But odds are, if a manager constantly decides which projects to do without asking the players what they want, that some projects aren't going to be "good" to a bunch of the players.

Cetellic
05-01-2009, 04:33 AM
But the overworld project as a whole could rock if devs would take an advantage of it...

BlackSolider
05-01-2009, 05:07 AM
Indeed it could. But is that what the people really want to see? Do they want a new overworld? Or do they want stuff to do on the overworld?

If the devs don't have the player's opinions, they're making their dream world, not the world the community wants to play. And if the community doesn't want to play in that dream world, they're going to leave.

Shadow87
05-02-2009, 04:37 PM
You say GCs never host with low playercount.

Thats why you all suck as GCs =P

You should never host when there is 1 player on, because hey what will you host? 2 active players though = good 2 player game.

And again, Development aren't little girls who can't cross the street, they do not need us to hold their hands and continue to give them suggestions, they aren't taking them anyway.

Its their job to provide a fun exciting server, they have failed miserably in doing so, let them keep trying, I rather watch them all crumble and watch DC fail miserably for being such a ****y prick. I'm surprised you all have not noticed yet that DC never cared about **** that any of you had to say, hes going to do what every other admin did and try to mold this to his own liking, not any of his teams liking, not thor or storms liking, but his own.

But again, they got nothing on Delteria if they keep going at this rate. I'm done with classic for now, they showed they cant handle running it anymore, im waiting for delteria to come out.

Rufus
05-02-2009, 04:52 PM
I'm done with classic for now, they showed they cant handle running it anymore, im waiting for delteria to come out.

Result.

Shadow87
05-02-2009, 05:36 PM
No sorry I forgot you were retarded and have trouble understanding what people say.

I meant my hope for classic is done, i am still going to talk about anything i want to about it. Sorry, i always forget you are insanely stupid Rufus.

BlackSolider
05-02-2009, 05:39 PM
2 people = a couple
3 people = a threesome
4 people = a boring event (imo) like sparopoly or drunken stupor, neither of which I enjoy hosting
5 people = a boring event like first to 5 sumo
6 people = a decent LMS
7 people or more = a quality event

That's a rough generalization. Yesterday I tried hosting with a playercount of 13. I saw about 6-7 people online who would probably join an event. I massed asking how many people would be interested in an event, and after a minute I had 3 pms. That's not an event. If I had gotten 4-5 people (or more,) I'd gladly (pun intended) try to host something. But I didn't. What the hell do you want me to do? Host a tea party for 3 people? Please. I aim to host fun, quality events. Quality and fun are both amplified by competition, and for the best competition, you need numbers greater than 6. Does that mean I can't host events with less than 6? No, but anything less than 4 is not an event in my eyes.

MysticX2X
05-02-2009, 08:17 PM
Not everybody who will play will automatically pm you saying they're interested...

BlackSolider
05-02-2009, 08:25 PM
So we're supposed to assume we're going to get more people? "Oh, only 3 ppl sent in, but I'm sure I can get 6 people." Will it sometimes happen? Sure. Will it happen all the time? Nope.

MysticX2X
05-02-2009, 08:41 PM
Is that a good enough reason to detag? Nope. I would definitely host with 3 people though.

BlackSolider
05-02-2009, 08:48 PM
It's a good enough reason for me, according to my definition of what a quality event should be.

If your definition of a quality event includes 3 person events, then have fun with that.

MysticX2X
05-02-2009, 08:56 PM
This is ultimately why the GC team fails. We have GC's who are too pessimistic to even host on a semi-decent playercount and have to resort to "getting a valid amount of PMs" in order to host. Granted if you only had 1 pm that wouldn't be a good sign, but 3 or more is.

Fail Fail Fail

Rufus
05-02-2009, 09:01 PM
This is ultimately why the GC team fails. We have GC's who are too pessimistic to even host on a semi-decent playercount and have to resort to "getting a valid amount of PMs" in order to host. Granted if you only had 1 pm that wouldn't be a good sign, but 3 or more is.

Fail Fail Fail

That, and there's only like 3 active people who host.

BlackSolider
05-02-2009, 09:06 PM
Apparently I'm a bad GC because I don't exactly follow your standards of hosting.

But try and look at it from a different perspective for once. Competitiveness brings out the best in people, no? In a truly competitive situation, everyone involved is trying their best to do whatever it takes to win. I for one believe that competition is best brought out in large numbers, and/or in a tournament structure. Three people isn't my idea of a competition, as I've said before.

From the perspective of good competition, I'm not doing anything wrong. If you look at it from other perspectives, I'm sure you can find fault with my methods. But I do what I do for good competition, which is what I believe in.

MysticX2X
05-02-2009, 09:17 PM
Large numbers brings guild alliances, no? That's not competition at all.

But that isn't the point.

It's the point that Classic is in a ****hole right now, so you have to lower your expectations to adjust to the status quo. You can't just keep your expectations the same always. You might as well quit then because Classic isn't going to elevate if the motivation of the staff members is like this.

BlackSolider
05-02-2009, 09:45 PM
Competition doesn't lower its expectations. It wants everything you got to try and win. When you start an event with only 1 opponent (as opposed to getting to a 1v1 situation at the end of a 8 person lms,) there's no chance to build up a competitive spirit. There's no chance to prove yourself by cutting down a horde of enemies. Anyone can get lucky in a 1v1 or 1v1v1 situation; it takes true skill to win a competitive 8 person free for all. That's what I'm trying to achieve when I host.

jacob_bald6225
05-03-2009, 07:07 AM
Would it have hurt to preview the prize through some screenshots before the drawing?

MysticX2X
05-03-2009, 04:38 PM
Competition doesn't lower its expectations. It wants everything you got to try and win. When you start an event with only 1 opponent (as opposed to getting to a 1v1 situation at the end of a 8 person lms,) there's no chance to build up a competitive spirit. There's no chance to prove yourself by cutting down a horde of enemies. Anyone can get lucky in a 1v1 or 1v1v1 situation; it takes true skill to win a competitive 8 person free for all. That's what I'm trying to achieve when I host.

Oh yeah true skill with 2 guild alliances already made? Oh u so clever gladius.:rolleyes:

Large events are better, yes. But Current Classic now simply won't comfort that satisfaction. Maybe you should adjust? If you don't want to host for 3 people while on tag, then that's just being selfish.

BlackSolider
05-03-2009, 05:12 PM
I adjust to acceptable levels. If there's 40 people on, however unlikely, I'm not going to host something that only 8 or 10 people can play; I'm going to host something with an unlimited amount so I can get as many as possible. Same thing with lower counts, like in the teens. I'm not going to try and host an event that needs exactly 8 people if I'm not convinced I'll get eight.

Yes, you need to adjust to your playercount, but do realize that there are limits. You can't have 30 people in one room for an LMS event; it'd be too crowded. Same thing our current playercount. Yesterday you hosted both a pit LMS and thin ice sumo for 2 or 3 people. Wtf. That's not an event. I don't care how bad our playercount is right now, I'm not going to "bastardize" (night's word) my events because I have standards. Are they too high? Well, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. So host your 3 person "events" and I'll host my quality events when the opportunity presents itself (like last night.)

xnervNATx
05-03-2009, 08:42 PM
That, and there's only like 3 active people who host.

oh my where is night?
not here.
classic staff team fail except faq , were more active than gc themself

BlackSolider
05-03-2009, 08:52 PM
Last time I checked, FAQ can sit on tag. GC's can't.

xnervNATx
05-04-2009, 12:36 AM
Last time I checked, FAQ can sit on tag. GC's can't.

last time i checked no events were hosted in a week

BlackSolider
05-04-2009, 12:54 AM
Last time I checked thats vastly exaggerated.

jacob_bald6225
05-04-2009, 01:05 AM
So no lottery winner announcement?

MysticX2X
05-04-2009, 01:16 AM
Darkcloud won the lottery. He's a staff member who probably has the superbomb in his inventory.

Whoop dee do?

I adjust to acceptable levels. If there's 40 people on, however unlikely, I'm not going to host something that only 8 or 10 people can play; I'm going to host something with an unlimited amount so I can get as many as possible. Same thing with lower counts, like in the teens. I'm not going to try and host an event that needs exactly 8 people if I'm not convinced I'll get eight.

Yes, you need to adjust to your playercount, but do realize that there are limits. You can't have 30 people in one room for an LMS event; it'd be too crowded. Same thing our current playercount. Yesterday you hosted both a pit LMS and thin ice sumo for 2 or 3 people. Wtf. That's not an event. I don't care how bad our playercount is right now, I'm not going to "bastardize" (night's word) my events because I have standards. Are they too high? Well, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. So host your 3 person "events" and I'll host my quality events when the opportunity presents itself (like last night.)
Okay, for one - you just said you were asking how many people would play an event and in return got 3 pms. So that means you would never host an event for 3 people even though those can remain competitively fun.

Also, if there were a lot of people who joined an LMS event, I'd call that fun too. More people = More frantic and fun.

I hosted small events because those people actually enjoyed them. It seems that you only host to satisfy yourself and not the enjoyment of others, even if in the smallest quantity.

BlackSolider
05-04-2009, 02:06 AM
If I don't find a particular event to be fun, I don't usually host it. It doesn't matter if it's pictionary or a 3 person lms. If its not fun to watch, I don't want to host it. When I host, I want to watch a competitive match going on. If an event isn't going to be competitive (by my previous definition,) I won't want to watch it and thus I won't want to host it. End of story.

God forbid a person wanting to play in or watch a competitive event.

MysticX2X
05-04-2009, 04:14 AM
That sounds selfish again. Hosting is generally not always a fun thing. You signed up for the job and accepted the difficulties you face including not having fun watching some while others may. You host for others fun, not your own though that is a plus.

Again you avoid the fact of a 3 man still being competitive, although it's fast.

BlackSolider
05-04-2009, 04:17 AM
What's more competitive: A pickup basketball game with 3 people or 8 people? With a 3 person LMS, you only have to watch two people. With an 8 person LMS, you have to watch 7 different people at all times, dodging more than twice as many attacks.

As far as I'm concerned, 3-4 person events aren't competitive enough to warrant an event. If you think otherwise, then host them. I won't, for reasons already stated, whether you agree with them or not.

Cetellic
05-05-2009, 04:21 AM
Indeed it could. But is that what the people really want to see? Do they want a new overworld? Or do they want stuff to do on the overworld?

If the devs don't have the player's opinions, they're making their dream world, not the world the community wants to play. And if the community doesn't want to play in that dream world, they're going to leave.

The point is, "new overworld" opens doors for "stuff to do on the overworld".

So if the community doesnt want *blank* hit detection, they're going to leave! They're not going to still play but complain about euro reach, oh no, they're gunna bails the moment something doesnt go their way!

We don't got time for the babies, they should bail anyway. Once the super awesome stuff is made it's obvious to build a new community to make up for the loss. Once that's done, we can then use player opinion to enhance what we have.

Rufus
05-05-2009, 11:04 AM
We don't got time for the babies, they should bail anyway.

Best thing you've ever said.

BlackSolider
05-05-2009, 03:22 PM
Once the super awesome stuff is made

But how long can we afford to wait for this "super awesome stuff" to be made? Classic can't afford to sit around as is for too much longer before everyone simply leaves.

MysticX2X
05-05-2009, 03:32 PM
The point is, "new overworld" opens doors for "stuff to do on the overworld".

So if the community doesnt want *blank* hit detection, they're going to leave! They're not going to still play but complain about euro reach, oh no, they're gunna bails the moment something doesnt go their way!

We don't got time for the babies, they should bail anyway. Once the super awesome stuff is made it's obvious to build a new community to make up for the loss. Once that's done, we can then use player opinion to enhance what we have.

There doesn't have to be a "new overworld". The overworld now can simply be changed up to sort out the defects with it.

xnervNATx
05-05-2009, 03:33 PM
But how long can we afford to wait for this "super awesome stuff" to be made? Classic can't afford to sit around as is for too much longer before everyone simply leaves.

its might be too late since every staff is now officially inactive

BlackSolider
05-05-2009, 03:34 PM
@ mystic.

IMO the overworld is fine, it's just empty. We need to fill it with stuff people can use repeatedly.

xnervNATx
05-05-2009, 03:42 PM
@ mystic.

IMO the overworld is fine, it's just empty. We need to fill it with stuff people can use repeatedly.

gr8 more requests , but no one to make them :(

Cetellic
05-05-2009, 05:16 PM
But how long can we afford to wait for this "super awesome stuff" to be made? Classic can't afford to sit around as is for too much longer before everyone simply leaves.

Have simple stuff made to keep everyone busy, with SUPER AWESOME STUFF being worked on waiting to rape... speed's not the issue with that setup, just make sure to have quality.

There doesn't have to be a "new overworld". The overworld now can simply be changed up to sort out the defects with it.

*hands Mystic a card that reads "FAIL!!!!"*

BlackSolider
05-05-2009, 07:29 PM
*sigh*

Clel I'm not talking about speed, quality, quantity, or any of that.

I'm simply saying I doubt can classic afford to wait more than a few months for new content. Eventually people are either going to give up hope completely or move to other servers (such as Delt.)

Cetellic
05-06-2009, 04:10 AM
Hmm, well what happened with that is you brought up length of time, "how long can we afford to wait for super awesome stuff to be released", it won't be released at "light speed", in order to be super awesome it must "take awhile". All I said was the fact that super awesome stuff would take awhile to release makes no difference, since I've already countered the "people leaving because of no new content" issue... well atleast in this scenario thingy =(

MysticX2X
05-06-2009, 04:13 AM
*hands Mystic a card that reads "FAIL!!!!"*

Thanks for elaborating. :asleep:

Rufus
05-06-2009, 04:13 AM
[..]if I was in control of dev speed wouldn't be a problem[..]

How?

BlackSolider
05-06-2009, 04:23 AM
We've seen how well fast releases work out. They don't. Releasing a bunch of **** quickly will fail if theres no long term planning behind them.

Pelikano
05-06-2009, 12:24 PM
So the Card Game (****ing 154854 years) worked well? lol

xnervNATx
05-06-2009, 03:32 PM
So the Card Game (****ing 154854 years) worked well? lol

for 4-5 days yea

BlackSolider
05-06-2009, 03:49 PM
The card game itself (design, scripting, images, testing, etc.) all took a few years due to several problems (the scripter left for a long time,) but I believe the actual public release was made too quickly and without enough thought about how things would turn out over two weeks. Though I doubt anyone could have predicted the outcome it had (card disparity, not the fact that it died.)

Mark Sir Link
05-06-2009, 04:11 PM
The card game itself (design, scripting, images, testing, etc.) all took a few years due to several problems (the scripter left for a long time,) but I believe the actual public release was made too quickly and without enough thought about how things would turn out over two weeks. Though I doubt anyone could have predicted the outcome it had (card disparity, not the fact that it died.)

anyone with 1/16th of a brain could have easily predicted it

Cetellic
05-06-2009, 08:00 PM
How?

Because when stuff would be made we wouldnt wait around for it to fissile out, we'd keep things moving, all in the while having something big being worked on in the background. Laying foundations down is important business.

Rufus
05-06-2009, 08:04 PM
Because when stuff would be made we wouldnt wait around for it to fissile out, we'd keep things moving, all in the while having something big being worked on in the background. Laying foundations down is important business.

So why is the Game Coordinator team in the state that is in while you're the assistant administrator?

Cetellic
05-06-2009, 09:01 PM
because it's just assistant admin, there's no control with it really. If I was admin it'd be a different story, cause I'd have direct control over my team and could make the drastic changes needed.

MysticX2X
05-07-2009, 12:34 AM
lol you have no restrictions on gc dev and you can simply tell night your ideas. Youre just finding excuses not to do your job.

Cetellic
05-08-2009, 04:30 AM
Mystic wth man, you always fail everytime you speak on something...

GC Dev and GC are two different areas. With GC Dev things are fine until I run into limitations put there by the dev department.

There's no way Night will give into the ideas I have in mind.

BlackSolider
05-08-2009, 04:34 AM
Are your ideas just wayyyyy out there, or do they break the current limitations in place?

(PS: this is a question, not an insult of any type.)

Cetellic
05-08-2009, 04:51 AM
They'd be pretty easy to implement, guess they may break certain limitations

MysticX2X
05-08-2009, 04:53 AM
LOL, I fail?

You fail when you can't even take asst admin to your advantage.

And if you think Night, a person who can be very rational, would not listen to your ideas, I bet it was probably stupid and outrageous along the lines of "FIRE ALL GC'S AND DO A MASS RE-HIRE".

Im not sure how Dev is restricting GC dev, but do explain.

Cetellic
05-08-2009, 05:21 AM
Things get pretty deep and I dont feel like explaining something pointless.

MysticX2X
05-09-2009, 02:47 AM
Then stop acting like you walk on water.

Cetellic
05-09-2009, 11:51 AM
I answered a question, then you come in with FAIL and suddenly assume I think I'm God.... What are you trying to prove here?

xnervNATx
05-09-2009, 03:42 PM
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7562/ggggm.th.png (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ggggm.png)

Shadow87
05-09-2009, 08:12 PM
Shut up already ****.

Sting didn't do **** as asst admin either, he made a lot of events, but Night always kept the team together. And anyone could have done what sting did, he was obsessed with WWF, so he recreated events of WWF to fit graal.

Clel is doing what every Asst admin has always done, basically nothing. Clel creates things, he does his part.

Night should be active and around to force you slackers to host, its everyones fault that GC is a pathetic pile of trash now. Clel you can actually tell them to host since night isn't around. And if they don't listen to you, then take it to night and tell him its about time he started dealing with this ****.


Oh and I have not read any of this stuff really, But the card game still remains garbage, why is that?

Where is its creators? Where are those changes promised?

BlackSolider
05-09-2009, 08:13 PM
*shrug*

Shadow87
05-09-2009, 08:15 PM
That was also meant for the card game thread har.

But lottery probably isn't doing any good either like I said. Someone care to correct?


Gladius do you shrug because i am right about GC?

You are hired as GC to be the events coordinator for the server, i see no such thing happen on classic. So obviously you all suck very much at doing your job, and since you are not going to argue that I guess i am right.

MysticX2X
05-09-2009, 08:23 PM
The GC team is in a pathetic condition right now, there is no doubt about it. But it's all in part with ensuring each GC does their part in hosting, which half only do.

Cetellic
05-09-2009, 11:16 PM
I came online and you're all talking about "YOU NEVER HOST" and junk, excuse me I just got back from a trip and fixed myself up a computer of my own. What did you expect throughout the time I was gone and stuff?

MysticX2X
05-10-2009, 12:11 AM
It's a long term trend I saw in you Clel. You've been hosting sporadically for the past 2 years.

BlackSolider
05-10-2009, 12:23 AM
@ tats.

We have 3 people that host: mystic, luda, and myself. This leaves us with 3-4 other GCs who either don't host or don't log on.

As for the card game, I've seen DC a few times the past week but haven't heard anything about the cards.

Cetellic
05-10-2009, 11:45 PM
News flash!!! Old gcs arent that active!!!! That is all!!!

MysticX2X
05-10-2009, 11:51 PM
How surprising..../sarcasm.

Edit: ey glad, you misspelled "Death" as "Luda".

ffcmike
06-25-2009, 12:14 AM
Just a reminder that this Lottery is still active and commencing every 2 weeks,
the current prize for Game #5 is Batform,
which some people missed the chance of obtaining last Autumn,
so this is a chance to win it if you don't want to wait until September.

Game #1 was won by Zackaios (albeit a re-draw) who recieved the Superbomb.
Game #2 was won by Nightmareangel, who already possessed the Morpher beforehand but claimed he didn't realise it was the prize before purchasing tickets.
Game #3 saw Laura/xnervnatx picking up the winning number, she has recieved the Conch Shell.
Game #4 resulted in Nataxo winning the Shovel.

Having said that,
there's a chance that future games might be post-poned if either playercount doesn't pick up or ticket purchasing remains low,
the draw for batform however will definately still go ahead.

James
06-25-2009, 12:26 AM
It's hard to purchase tickets when events are never hosted. :(

jorollychu
06-25-2009, 02:02 AM
i cant play because i'm prohibited from accessing the server sorry

maximus_asinus
06-25-2009, 02:46 AM
Classic should probably unban everyone they've banned within the last year. For the most part these people were the most dedicated Classic players.

Ontopic: I agree with James, I have no tickets, and there is never GCs on. How does this lottery attract people (well other than those people who had hoarded their tickets).

MysticX2X
06-25-2009, 03:07 AM
Tis a shame nobody gives events a chance when they are hosted.

jacob_bald6225
06-25-2009, 09:32 AM
Classic should probably unban everyone they've banned within the last year. For the most part these people were the most dedicated Classic players.

I concur they did ban some active players-- trolls or not it is still a community.

Crimson2005
06-25-2009, 06:19 PM
Classic should probably unban everyone they've banned within the last year. For the most part these people were the most dedicated Classic players.


That logic to me seems ridiculous. I think you know it is deep down too.

Mark Sir Link
06-25-2009, 08:27 PM
The logic of pick and choose enforcement is also pretty ridiculous. If I'm permanently banned, it's pretty likely nearly every player should also be permanently banned.

MysticX2X
06-25-2009, 08:42 PM
Not too many players draw and mass racist messages in front of a GP. I agree that you should be unbanned someday though.

DarkCloud_PK
06-25-2009, 10:07 PM
It could be possible but he would have to convince Stryker and the Management without a doubt that he would not continue the behavior that got him in the situation he is in.

James
06-25-2009, 10:11 PM
Tis a shame nobody gives events a chance when they are hosted.

Every event I played on Classic I liked.

I'm sure the people that are banned now aren't nearly as bad as the *****s that played in 1999-2001, which was probably 80 percent of the game including me. ;)

MysticX2X
06-25-2009, 10:24 PM
Every event I played on Classic I liked.


I like them too. It's just that you barely get any people to play them when players are actually on. That and the decreasing value of a ticket.

maximus_asinus
06-26-2009, 02:47 AM
I was as bad as Kevin, maybe even worse. I'm certain overall I've said and done some pretty awful things. Kevin is right, pick and choose enforcement just makes it look like GPs are targeting certain players.

Crono
06-26-2009, 02:48 AM
I like them too. It's just that you barely get any people to play them when players are actually on. That and the decreasing value of a ticket.

I don't know about you guys but I never played for tickets. I just played to win which was in itself fun, especially in close games of CTF.

maximus_asinus
06-26-2009, 02:51 AM
I don't know about you guys but I never played for tickets. I just played to win which was in itself fun, especially in close games of CTF.Same way. I've even logged off before recieving tickets because I was caught up in how good the game was and wasn't thinking.

jacob_bald6225
06-26-2009, 02:55 AM
makes it look like GPs are targeting certain players.

(Because they are)

BlackSolider
06-26-2009, 05:20 AM
Tickets were a nice bonus, but the satisfaction of winning a close event (especially ctf) was far more rewarding than a little yellow piece of paper with little to no value.