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cyan3
10-15-2008, 04:05 PM
Any plans for making a new levels editor? The current levels editor is out dated and should have an updated version. Also versions of the levels editor should be made to support Linux and Mac Operating Systems without windows emulation.

Crono
10-15-2008, 04:15 PM
They're apparently relying on players to make it for them and want it to be ingame rather than a superior seperate client.

:asleep:

cbk1994
10-15-2008, 04:25 PM
Stefan said this:

The size depends on the maximum texture size of the OpenGL driver. In the scripted level editor we made it so...

Which must mean they made one, or used Tig's, and haven't released it/added it to client-RC yet.

windows emulation.

Visualization is the correct word.

DrakilorP2P
10-15-2008, 06:13 PM
This is now a frequently asked question.

cyan3
10-15-2008, 09:23 PM
I would prefer an application editor I don't really like the idea of an online editor

DustyPorViva
10-15-2008, 09:24 PM
I would prefer an application editor I don't really like the idea of an online editor
Most would agree with you on that. They don't care though.

draygin
10-15-2008, 09:40 PM
I'd be happy if I could just expand the tile selection area and make it wider. With my 19" wide screen I have a lot of wasted space because my editor is bigger than the level is wide.
I personally don't want to use an online editor as that means people can bug me while I tile... that and an offline tile editor is good for those people who aren't good enough to work on a server but want to learn on their own.

pig132
10-16-2008, 07:27 AM
I'd love some GS2 support.

Umat
10-16-2008, 03:35 PM
I'd love some GS2 support.

Not gonna happen on a seperate leveleditor.

DarkReaper0
10-17-2008, 02:37 AM
Not gonna happen on a seperate leveleditor.

Which is why we all cry silently on the inside.

Loriel
10-17-2008, 04:49 PM
Visualization is the correct word.

Nah.

knightfire35
10-18-2008, 08:52 PM
I agree, but It won't happen for a while.

DustyPorViva
10-19-2008, 12:01 AM
I don't care about GS2, all I really care about is layers.

cbk1994
10-19-2008, 06:11 PM
I don't care about GS2

Agreed, though I care more about cross-platform-ness then layers. Probably because I rarely actually make levels.

Loriel
10-19-2008, 06:23 PM
I am still not sure what layers would actually be used for.

Crono
10-19-2008, 06:25 PM
I am still not sure what layers would actually be used for.

Wouldn't need NPCs for drawover effects and don't need copies of the same graphic with different colored corners. First things that come to my mind anyway, but I'd rather see GS2 support so I could practice it offline. :/

DustyPorViva
10-19-2008, 06:33 PM
I am still not sure what layers would actually be used for.
A lot. The thing that annoys me about layers is how much wasted potential they have right now. I've played around with layers a lot, and while I found I could do a lot with them, it's almost impossible to because I'd have to manually do the layers in wordpad. No to mention what Crono said, it just makes it a lot easier to do casual tiling. no need for a dozen different tiles just for different terrains. No need to have NPCs for treetops anymore since they'd be able to be drawn over different terrains and display over the player. Simple stuff like that is just so tasty. Tasty.

Especially in the next version when Stefan adds a layer drawing value to the actual layers. I mean, layers are used in most 2D games since the support for it. For a reason, right?

cbk1994
10-19-2008, 07:11 PM
I'd rather see GS2 support so I could practice it offline. :/

Personally, I think it'd take far too much work to implement, and you still wouldn't have serverside.

Unfortunately, it's hard to learn GS2 since there is a lack of places to try it. I hope they fix this, but I don't think a level editor will do that.

DustyPorViva
10-19-2008, 07:19 PM
Personally, I think it'd take far too much work to implement, and you still wouldn't have serverside.

Unfortunately, it's hard to learn GS2 since there is a lack of places to try it. I hope they fix this, but I don't think a level editor will do that.
I don't think it'd be that hard, then again I'm no programmer. Either way, the interpreter is already there(current Graal version), they just need to implement it into the level editor. I don't think serverside needs to be stressed, all it needs to be is good enough for people to be able to learn.

Crono
10-19-2008, 08:07 PM
and you still wouldn't have serverside.

Neither does GS1 on the level editor but we still learned how to use it from there and THEN moved onto serverside scripting.

Unfortunately, it's hard to learn GS2 since there is a lack of places to try it. I hope they fix this, but I don't think a level editor will do that.

Level editor is the best place to put it.

DarkReaper0
10-19-2008, 09:04 PM
Level editor is the best place to put it.

Level editor seems like the only place to put it.

cbk1994
10-19-2008, 09:15 PM
Level editor is the best place to put it.

Level editor seems like the only place to put it.

Unless they make another place.

xXziroXx
10-19-2008, 09:17 PM
Unless they make another place.

Yeah, lets call it... the Script Editor!!!

Crono
10-19-2008, 10:33 PM
Unless they make another place.

Why do that when you already have the level editor?

DarkReaper0
10-20-2008, 01:10 AM
Why do that when you already have the level editor?

It would be like making a cake section at a party, it's all food so why bother? :oo:

cbk1994
10-20-2008, 03:33 AM
Why do that when you already have the level editor?

There may be a better, easier way to do it. Perhaps even letting you use serverside.

Crono
10-20-2008, 04:09 AM
There may be a better, easier way to do it. Perhaps even letting you use serverside.

Isn't it possible to emulate an npc server offline?

But even then, I don't care for serverside scripting as GS1 was the same way. You learned it offline then moved onto serverside scripting once you understood the basics.

DustyPorViva
10-20-2008, 04:30 AM
I had an idea where you'd be able to host an NPC server off of your PC(much like you would any other server), and only have it available to your PC. This would allow the level editor to connect to connect to your NPC server much like it would for an online server, for the serverside function.

cbk1994
10-20-2008, 06:22 AM
I had an idea where you'd be able to host an NPC server off of your PC(much like you would any other server), and only have it available to your PC. This would allow the level editor to connect to connect to your NPC server much like it would for an online server, for the serverside function.

I doubt Stefan is willing to release the NPC-Server, no matter how much it is compiled, encoded, or anything else.

DustyPorViva
10-20-2008, 06:29 AM
I doubt Stefan is willing to release the NPC-Server, no matter how much it is compiled, encoded, or anything else.
No more risking than releasing Graal, no?

Loriel
10-21-2008, 12:25 AM
Either way, the interpreter is already there(current Graal version)

I thought the NPC server compiled gs2 to bytecode before sending it to the client?

DustyPorViva
10-21-2008, 12:29 AM
I thought the NPC server compiled gs2 to bytecode before sending it to the client?
To be honest a little bit past my knowledge. However, Stefan can't add clientside functions without updating the actual client... so I assumed the clientside stuff was interpreted by the actual client.

cbk1994
10-21-2008, 04:53 AM
No more risking than releasing Graal, no?

Try telling Stefan that.

DustyPorViva
10-21-2008, 04:57 AM
Try telling Stefan that.
No need to. He doesn't even give a damn about external tools, yet alone such a huge addition like this :P

No one has actually reverse-engineered the Graal client, as far as I know. Most they have done is editing things(I don't think I should actually mention the details).

Fry
10-21-2008, 12:37 PM
No more risking than releasing Graal, no?

There is a difference between the client and the server for a game, yes.

DustyPorViva
10-21-2008, 12:46 PM
There is a difference between the client and the server for a game, yes.
Err... duh... but what is the risk of a compiled server being released over a client? The client is just as important as the server, and if he's gonna be that paranoid about the server, he may as well just stop releasing Graal clients. Do you really think someone is going to reverse-engineer it?

It doesn't actually have to be a server, but simply a local hosting on the PC that doesn't even have the capability to communicate with an outside computer.

Loriel
10-21-2008, 10:40 PM
Do you really think someone is going to reverse-engineer it?

Yeah.

DustyPorViva
10-21-2008, 10:43 PM
Yeah.
Err... perhaps reverse-engineer is the wrong word. But no one has actually gotten the source of the Graal client itself. And like I said, to make sure that doesn't happen don't even add the support to communicate to remote computers.

Loriel
10-21-2008, 11:08 PM
But no one has actually gotten the source of the Graal client itself.
Of course not. It is generally impossible to get the source code out of the binary.

And like I said, to make sure that doesn't happen don't even add the support to communicate to remote computers.

... but it would be entirely possible to crack the binary to remove that restriction. Or to grab the scripting part out of the editor and embed it into a third-party server or whatever.

DustyPorViva
10-21-2008, 11:09 PM
... but it would be entirely possible to crack the binary to remove that restriction.
Not if it's not included in the first place. Instead of just putting a restriction, don't put the possibility in there at all.

atomuskus
10-24-2008, 07:01 AM
G-Construct recognizes GS2, but you can't play the levels in it yet.

DustyPorViva
10-24-2008, 07:18 AM
Gonstruct hasn't been updated in a while :(
I don't even think it's being worked on anymore.

Loriel
10-24-2008, 11:37 PM
G-Construct recognizes GS2, but you can't play the levels in it yet.

At the very most gonstruct is going to start up the Graal client and convince it to run the level. Anything more would require basically rewriting Graal from scratch.

Loriel
10-24-2008, 11:38 PM
Gonstruct hasn't been updated in a while :(
I don't even think it's being worked on anymore.

Personally I was kind of hoping that someone else would jump on the project. You can pretty much edit levels at this point, so I am not very motivated to tack on random features. :)

atomuskus
10-25-2008, 04:56 AM
I use it anyways since the level editor won't work for me.

cbk1994
10-25-2008, 05:37 AM
G-Construct recognizes GS2, but you can't play the levels in it yet.

It doesn't recognize GS2. It uses GS2 syntax highlighting. I could put some PHP or even Java in there and it wouldn't know anything was wrong.

DustyPorViva
10-25-2008, 07:53 AM
Personally I was kind of hoping that someone else would jump on the project. You can pretty much edit levels at this point, so I am not very motivated to tack on random features. :)
I found it was lacking in some areas to the point I couldn't use it. Also the fact that it didn't have layer support meant it didn't offer enough for me to move over from the current editor.

Mainly it had problems saving options/tile definitions. I don't quite remember though.

Fry
10-25-2008, 11:03 AM
I found it was lacking in some areas to the point I couldn't use it. Also the fact that it didn't have layer support meant it didn't offer enough for me to move over from the current editor.

Mainly it had problems saving options/tile definitions. I don't quite remember though.

The version in the source repository does saving and creating of tile definitions, could probably test that a bit and then update the executable.

Also if you could name some of the areas where it is lacking, they can maybe be fixed if they are reasonable, I just haven't had much time in the last few months, so not much has happened. The problem with most tile editing related changes is that they are personal preferences, in the future there should probably be a special options dialog for selection/tile behavior.

And the problem with layers is that there are some implementation obscurities in how Stefan intend(ed) to implement them in the Graal client, since, considering they are not even "officially" supported right now, there's not much information about it. That, and the actual usefulness of them (maybe someone could link a level where they are used?).

xXziroXx
10-25-2008, 05:04 PM
That, and the actual usefulness of them?

As stated by others in this thread (and other threads), the biggest plus with using layers is to be able to use a foreground and then have tiles with transparency drawn on top of them so you won't have to make another of the same tile with a different foreground for each foreground type.

napo_p2p
10-25-2008, 10:47 PM
Also if you could name some of the areas where it is lacking, they can maybe be fixed if they are reasonable, I just haven't had much time in the last few months, so not much has happened. The problem with most tile editing related changes is that they are personal preferences, in the future there should probably be a special options dialog for selection/tile behavior.

If you could get the flood fill finished, that would help a lot. Another thing I could think of is support for loading gmaps.

DrakilorP2P
10-26-2008, 12:46 AM
If you could get the flood fill finished, that would help a lot.

A semi-recent source repository version supports flood fill already.

xXziroXx
12-03-2008, 08:21 PM
Little bump, but, stuff like this is the main usefulness of layers - and yes, we DO need an editor that supports them.

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35566&d=1139919168

Credits to Angelus for the level.

Loriel
12-03-2008, 08:38 PM
Any chance you could post the level?

xXziroXx
12-03-2008, 08:58 PM
Any chance you could post the level?

If I'm not entirely wrong, the actual level is only on one layer. I think Angelus replicated it by using several images to make it look like it was layers, I remember him always saying how much layers would make it less complicated.

Basically, it would be divided in:


Layer 1 (lowest) - Some landscaping.
Layer 2 - The actual walkable part of the level, the part of the screenshot that's on the top.


The cloud images would also be placed on Layer 1, to make it look like layer 2 is above them.

Layers are 100% about making eye candy.

Fry
12-03-2008, 09:39 PM
Is it actually possible to assign NPCs to layers? As far as I remember the tile-layer is a property exclusive to tiles.

xXziroXx
12-03-2008, 09:53 PM
Is it actually possible to assign NPCs to layers? As far as I remember the tile-layer is a property exclusive to tiles.

Not as far as I know, no. But I remember Zero (zokemon) displaying an image below a layer, although I can't remember how he did it.

XdNemesisXd
12-03-2008, 10:57 PM
Looks nice it could b e like Heven lol

zokemon
12-04-2008, 12:09 AM
Tilelayers are all bunched together in one actual visiblity layer (right under layer 0 for TShowimgs and such). Because of this, you can't place anything inbetween any tilelayers; only above and below all of them. Placing something above is obvious but to place something behind it, you have to actually make a GUI object and move it behind GraalControl. So no, npcs can't be behind tilelayers.

Sorry!

And yeah, I haven't been up with Graal and all but did Stefan ever fix those external windows? If so I could have my built-in level editor done...