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View Full Version : New Content?


jacob_bald6225
05-13-2007, 09:25 PM
I think we should have some... or possibly some screenshots, or plans on what to expect. Good Idea I say.
Edit: This content I speak of does not have anything to do with events.

Minoc
05-13-2007, 09:41 PM
I really don't understand why it's still called "Classic". :[

jacob_bald6225
05-13-2007, 09:50 PM
I really don't understand why it's still called "Classic". :[

Because when there was the reset they decided to change the name back because if you do that then there will be a surge of new players thinking it is something new?

Tyhm
05-13-2007, 09:52 PM
I'd like some Old content...

Crono
05-13-2007, 10:25 PM
Because when there was the reset they decided to change the name back because if you do that then there will be a surge of new players thinking it is something new?

They should rename it to OLDSKOOL ADVENTURES

soulwazza
05-14-2007, 10:24 AM
soulwazza 4 unban :).

i readded Destiny , Avalon , Moonlit Lake Area, Chris Killems and a few other levels here and there + i made the snowtown hehe.

Pimmeh
05-14-2007, 12:40 PM
Why aren't they using the base of the old 1.26 levels?
If they fix every broken NPC there...the REALLY broken I mean.
I played that together with my brother for about a month! editing the baddy spawn at some hidden village to keep farming gold to finally buy that awesome horse!

Tyhm
05-14-2007, 06:44 PM
*groan* Not this argument again...
"Graal was best when it was Pachuka's old-and-forbidden levels!"
"No, Graal was best when it was Gerudo Desert and Onett Town and Northern Limits and everything was copyright-infringementopia!"
"No, Graal was best right before Tyhm got a hold of it and started assembling the map into a cohesive whole, just after Antago added Destiny and Ragnarok added Avalon."
"No, Graal was best when Tyhm was just started, after Eagan revamped CC and Floydian did the islands, but before he assembled all the quests into a tenuous storyline and removed all those fullhearts."
"No, Graal was best right after Tyhm left when Com013 made Dragon Island"

We're never gonna agree on it, and the nature of Graal is such that we can't very well upload every version...I tried such compromises during the shockedfrog debates and the Xmas/Graal2000 attempts. The results were:
1) If you're going to have the Old Levels, you have to remove the New Levels. Otherwise you split the playerbase. "My Version" has to be the Only Version, or it isn't really Classic, just Another Playerworld.
2) If you're going to try and put them both up, don't. There can only be one Graal Castle; if you put them next to each other it'll be confusing, and if you modify the original in any way to accomodate the new one (especially by moving the old one) it will lose all value as The Original Level.
3) Under no circumstances try and archive the old levels through a Silmaria warp somewhere. You won't do it right; see the previous two reasons. It'll either split the playerbase or it'll be a poor reproduction.

It depresses me. If Classic were mine to do over again, I think I'd start with a blank slate and add features from each version. That way nobody could claim I ruined Level 13 by right of it's clearly not Level 13, it's a reconstruction of the same.
I'd probably even plot an event around it too. Have the old world nuked by a new government of Lunarians, then remove them from the continuity, all save that rebel group of explorers and the colony in CC. All the players on Old Classic trying to survive as levels are torn asunder, holding off the invaders long enough for the scientists to use the Graals to transport as much of their world onto a new planet...

jacob_bald6225
05-14-2007, 11:41 PM
*groan* Not this argument again...
"Graal was best when it was Pachuka's old-and-forbidden levels!"
"No, Graal was best when it was Gerudo Desert and Onett Town and Northern Limits and everything was copyright-infringementopia!"
"No, Graal was best right before Tyhm got a hold of it and started assembling the map into a cohesive whole, just after Antago added Destiny and Ragnarok added Avalon."
"No, Graal was best when Tyhm was just started, after Eagan revamped CC and Floydian did the islands, but before he assembled all the quests into a tenuous storyline and removed all those fullhearts."
"No, Graal was best right after Tyhm left when Com013 made Dragon Island"


No, Graal was obviously the best when they removed all the content from it and put nothing fun or entertaining (Besides events) online for 2+ years.

syltburk
05-15-2007, 12:05 AM
I'd like some Old content...

I'd like all old quests. Actually ALL the old content.

Tyhm
05-15-2007, 03:19 AM
As I understand it, their aim is to bring back everything everyone ever liked about Classic all in one server. A noble pursuit; I don't think they'll ever be able to get people content with any single version of Graal Castle, Level13, etc., but it'd be nice to have every quest ever brought back online.
The trouble, of course, is priorities. They always get distracted by some Awesome Huge thing, like This massive release (if I manage to finish it before I lose interest/quit/get fired) will revolutionize and redefine Classic, it'll have all the quests at once, etc.; and we're all How about just Newbie House? Maybe Kull's? All we need is baddies and movement, right? Then I can make the Gerudo Fort quest for you again, and most of CC? That was all really simple after all...

Rufus
05-15-2007, 04:17 AM
Edit: This content I speak of does not have anything to do with events.

DC and I are busy making some new events right now! :D

Luda
05-15-2007, 06:28 AM
woooooopieeee doooooo events yet again, classic sucks.

Tyhm
05-15-2007, 07:38 AM
My favorite are the big events that resonate throughout eternity.

Like the invasion of Destiny. Even if you missed the big event, you could always relive it in the aftermath.

I think Supernick really "captured" it, even though he bulldozed NL to do it...

Kamaeru
05-15-2007, 09:26 AM
I used to like to go on 'Classic' and play all of the well-designed quests and sidequests. The thing that made it so great was that it was the only server on Graal that actually resembled something akin to a "finished" game, which is something to gawk at in retrospect. I think that reverting the server way back to a time in the genesis of its development and then being fickle about it is pretty foolish.

I'd really like it if someone hadn't done that.

DustyPorViva
05-15-2007, 03:51 PM
I think the problem is it seems like everyone who works on classic seems to think that people want something else. I think everyone wants to see the classic that they started on, the classic they grew up on. But really, what made classic, classic, was the people, just like any old server. I don't remember actually playing much except doing the quests, but running around messing with people, doing stupid stuff like fighting for the Graal Castle throne, guild wars and such. I don't think anyone could ever revive that, but if you're going to do anything close to that, it'd be bringing back at least the old overworld, not trying to create something new.
I think the gmap is a bad idea, but not because it doesn't have benefits, but because they can't replicate the Graal default engine without the specifics.

syltburk
05-17-2007, 11:56 AM
I can agree on the fact that classic won't be classic cause most people quit because of p2p or just left the game later on, but I want nostalgia not an new overworld really.

WHIPENIE4
05-19-2007, 10:24 PM
It doesnt really matter now. because either way. Guilds cant be the same because you can be in more then 1 now, the levels wont be the same because their technology has come "too far" to remain the same, the staff obviously cant be the same. But they are working on it so I have seem so there is some progress, it wont be the same without the features.... or should i say Not features. But there is progress being done. If I were them i'd just talk to someone who hasnt goten a new computer in ummm..... 8 years or so that have all the levels n stuff on their computer, someone would have it, but from what i can see they have the levels n stuff so..... yeah.... they are working on it

syltburk
05-20-2007, 03:42 AM
It doesnt really matter now. because either way. Guilds cant be the same because you can be in more then 1 now, the levels wont be the same because their technology has come "too far" to remain the same, the staff obviously cant be the same. But they are working on it so I have seem so there is some progress, it wont be the same without the features.... or should i say Not features. But there is progress being done. If I were them i'd just talk to someone who hasnt goten a new computer in ummm..... 8 years or so that have all the levels n stuff on their computer, someone would have it, but from what i can see they have the levels n stuff so..... yeah.... they are working on it

How would you know x-mann? You just said you came back, I can tell you right now it's been like this for a pretty long damn time.
People are getting tired of this dull information we're getting, I mean if this server won't be created for nostalgia, they might aswell remove the server forever.

WHIPENIE4
05-20-2007, 04:13 AM
yea well i said from what i see they are working on it because i was in the levels that storms working on earlier. i dont know what else to tell you. I am not in charge, and if you havent noticed, its hard to find good help these days, so yeah.

WHIPENIE4
05-20-2007, 05:51 AM
i got the levels now, if i had permission i would do it, i wouldnt even mind paying that 60 dollars every 6 months it wouldnt bother me at all. but yeah i doubt they'd give that a thought or even interest to their minds because they care only about that $. which this wouldn't bring in $, or it might but i have a sense of doubt.

Tyhm
05-20-2007, 09:11 PM
They have the old levels, I gave 'em to 'em.
The trouble is Classic doesn't play well with others. If there's 2 servers with the Real Classic Levels (one updated, one oldschool) the oldschool one will complain it's not the same because "Classic"'s stealing their rightful players, and vice versa. It's been attempted, Graal2000. Getting the levels right won't help.

DarkCloud_PK
05-20-2007, 09:38 PM
Well let me fill you in as one of the players that feels like you about content yet I actually see whats going on with my position. HR and his team have this epic new overworld and basically server redo planned out. I have to admit, with what they have behind their development veil so far is pretty nice, it will send some anger towards those vying for nostalgia but in all honesty, the content they have is pretty decent.

Problem is that the dev team, while large, is probably now the most inactive development team that has existed on this server. With that, they are currently working at a snails pace, on a project that is massive and still has much much much left before it will be complete, which will be the only time HR will consider releasing any of it to the public, until then it is kept in an account protected veil(I am supposedly not even allowed to post screenshots or anything of it). With the current speed of development, this ginormous project will seriously with no exaggeration or anything, will take 3-5+ years to finish. Why such a big project? Because of the who deal with each new LAT Admin that they have to completely destroy the work of the previous admin and rework the server in their own image. Below is a log between me and Storm about progress so far. You = Me. Opposite = Storm. HAVE FUN WITH ALL THIS TEXT LOL.

---

Tyhm
05-20-2007, 09:45 PM
(i suppose the log is either forthcoming or it isn't. maybe it'll be posted by the time I post, whatever)

Development behind a veil is a bad idea. 3-5 year delays with no visible improvement = making a different server. The whole point of Graal is the visible progress, the constant sense of potential. If you're gonna develop behind a veil, close the world you claim to be developing; at least then there's a race to make the best replacement, even if it's opened up to people you'd rather not compete with.

Or, as I'd rather, be honest and script an event where nuclear weapons fall out of kamikaze lunarian ships onto all the levels that you're currently working on, and release each "repair" as it comes available. Then you're not warping the server, you're fixing it. Hell, I authorize you to get a mod to delete this post just so you can claim it was somebody else destroyed the server and you're just trying to restore it as best you can, if it's not enough to shift the destruction to the Lunarian Empire...

Crimson2005
05-20-2007, 09:58 PM
epic.

Door
05-20-2007, 10:30 PM
To be perfectly honest, I have to side with DC on this one. I don't even mind if we do have amazing plans for the future that will take years.. but unless it's something so amazing, different, and new that we will not only be stealing players from UN and Zodiac, but also pulling new people in, then we better not lose the current playerbase. Classic has a really bad reputation right now. It's the "idling server." I play to talk to the people here, but my friends are leaving one by one. I was playing on Zodiac for a while, but now that I've switched back to classic, I'm constantly asked things like "Why do you play on Classic? There's nothing to do there" by the Zodiac players.

The reason why the Classic server is still alive now is because of all the diehard oldbies that refuse to let go of it. I can ask half the players on Classic at any given time about the 'good old days' and it sparks a reminiscent conversation. New overworld? Sure. I hate the current one, and would like to see a new one.. but that should not be a priority. What we need to focus on is keeping this server alive.

Shut Classic down? What the hell is that? If we lose our current playerbase, bringing the server back with a new overworld after a year is not going to make us popular at all. If Classic is removed for development, half the players will go to other servers and integrate there instead, forgetting about Classic, and the other half will return only to be turned off by the lack of familiarity, and then they will leave. Classic has nothing going for it right now except community. That's why anyone plays it at all. So let's shut the server down while we're working on it, and destroy that too. Excellent. Then there will quite literally be nothing left of Classic.

Geez.. it's so easy to please people, to make little things more fun. Add themes to things, celebrate special occasions, I even suggested that Master Storm add a silly little 'countdown' to the server, so that when he does release an item(when the countdown finishes), the playercount will be high high high with curious people(like, 42 of them! zomg!). We could have an event scripted to coincide with the release of the item, taking advantage of the high playercount. People would have fun! They'd think "There IS stuff to do on Classic once in a while. I better check up on the server more often so I don't miss out on more of it"

Oh, but God forbid we cater to the desires of players, because, you know.. all they do is complain.

What a horrible attitude to have. Attitude is aptitude in a lot of situations, and I think managing a server is just one of those situations.

Minoc
05-20-2007, 10:46 PM
I couldn't care any less for future progress.
With the exception of a few levels, the server has nothing to do with Old Main, and therefore its status should be no different than that of a regular playerworld.
Another server should take its place - either a continuation of Graal The Adventure (2004), pre-hera Classic (2001), or (preferably) a mixture of both.

Luda
05-20-2007, 10:58 PM
I couldn't care any less for future progress.
With the exception of a few levels, the server has nothing to do with Old Main, and therefore its status should be no different than that of a regular playerworld.
Another server should take its place - either a continuation of Graal The Adventure (2004), pre-hera Classic (2001), or (preferably) a mixture of both.

I agree

WHIPENIE4
05-22-2007, 05:30 AM
I couldn't care any less for future progress.
With the exception of a few levels, the server has nothing to do with Old Main, and therefore its status should be no different than that of a regular playerworld.
Another server should take its place - either a continuation of Graal The Adventure (2004), pre-hera Classic (2001), or (preferably) a mixture of both.

muhahaha and thus progress begins

jacob_bald6225
05-22-2007, 05:59 AM
Or, as I'd rather, be honest and script an event where nuclear weapons fall out of kamikaze lunarian ships onto all the levels that you're currently working on, and release each "repair" as it comes available. Then you're not warping the server, you're fixing it. Hell, I authorize you to get a mod to delete this post just so you can claim it was somebody else destroyed the server and you're just trying to restore it as best you can, if it's not enough to shift the destruction to the Lunarian Empire...

Large explosions were hella fun on graal2001.

syltburk
05-23-2007, 12:16 AM
The reason why the Classic server is still alive now is because of all the diehard oldbies that refuse to let go of it. I can ask half the players on Classic at any given time about the 'good old days' and it sparks a reminiscent conversation. New overworld? Sure. I hate the current one, and would like to see a new one.. but that should not be a priority. What we need to focus on is keeping this server alive.

What are you babbling about? I would say 5% at the most are oldbies still playing. People play classic because they want to be known as oldbies, most have left this game because they let the server go for years ago.
Owell at least they keep the playercount up.

DarkCloud_PK
05-23-2007, 08:26 AM
I would say 5% at the most are oldbies still playing.

After 21 years of being a middle class white male I can finally be considered a minority in some aspect yay.