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newCappa
09-14-2006, 09:21 PM
I dont really know what's the real meaning of the beer. But what i do know it thats its used by lamers to heal in PK, and thats not what it suppose to do. :mad:
I demand that someone rescripting the beer so when you got under 50 or 40 in AP you wont be healed.

Minoc
09-14-2006, 09:48 PM
I agree, it should have a healing rate of one heart per 10 seconds.

Also, remove the AP restrictions and the PK rooms, they make the kills count meaningless less. :[

maximus_asinus
09-14-2006, 09:58 PM
Your complaint will fall on deaf ears. I made this complaint near the introduction of the Beer NPC, and Massokre refused to take action. Having the Beer NPC effectively removes the AP restriction, because anyone with a little free time can collect a few and start PKing. We don't have to remove the beer outright, just place a few more restrictions on it.

And Minoc, the AP restrictions is a great thing. Nowadays, everyone lames, and giving them the ability to heal whenever they please will only reinforce their strategy. PK Rooms, I'll agree, should go, because they interfere with the PK points system.

Minoc
09-14-2006, 10:11 PM
And Minoc, the AP restrictions is a great thing. Nowadays, everyone lames, and giving them the ability to heal whenever they please will only reinforce their strategy.
It's much harder to lame players with 8 hearts.

Rufus
09-15-2006, 01:18 AM
I agree with this and have also complained about it.

Massokre is sadly on leave though and if he were actually going to do anything (which I don't actually know if he will) then it might be a while until that happens.

Tyhm
09-16-2006, 11:47 AM
Well, at least you're thinking. I mean, it's one thing to say "Beer is wrong!", another to say "It shouldn't heal people below 40AP". That's a single line of code and, if everyone's on board, it's easily implemented.

I liked my beer. When you got drunk and couldn't walk straight.

newCappa
09-16-2006, 03:08 PM
I liked my beer. When you got drunk and couldn't walk straight.
this beer is the same exept you can carry it whit you in you inventory.
I dont like to complain but this time i feel like i have to. :\

Tyhm
09-16-2006, 08:14 PM
*shrugs* Perhaps while you're Carrying Beer, taking damage causes it to spill. That'd be funny, at least. Graphically it could force the shield image temporarily to one of the Beer Shields, so your character holds it off to one side while he swings his sword, and he deflects arrows with the mug...Likewise, perhaps there could be a gani for Chugging, and if you're interrupted the mug shatters on the ground...

Balance-wise, I don't really see the problem with a carryable heal item with a penalty attached...but then, I think I'm missing part of the picture. Can anyone purchase it with equal ease, or is it restricted to The Evil? Does it allow people to fully heal in a no-healing area or something? If the penalties are strong enough, healing low-AP PK'ers isn't that bad...if the penalties are strong enough.

jake13jake
09-17-2006, 02:04 AM
*shrugs* Perhaps while you're Carrying Beer, taking damage causes it to spill. That'd be funny, at least. Graphically it could force the shield image temporarily to one of the Beer Shields, so your character holds it off to one side while he swings his sword, and he deflects arrows with the mug...Likewise, perhaps there could be a gani for Chugging, and if you're interrupted the mug shatters on the ground...

Balance-wise, I don't really see the problem with a carryable heal item with a penalty attached...but then, I think I'm missing part of the picture. Can anyone purchase it with equal ease, or is it restricted to The Evil? Does it allow people to fully heal in a no-healing area or something? If the penalties are strong enough, healing low-AP PK'ers isn't that bad...if the penalties are strong enough.

Well, it's a bit complex. Every time you drink a beer, it adds onto a timer by 20 seconds.

If the timer is => 40 seconds it will make you stumbly... very difficult to fight.

In terms of healing:
If the timer is at 0 seconds it will full heal you.
Otherwise if it's <= 100, it will heal you one heart per beer.
if it's <= 200 it will heal you half a heart per beer.
if it's greater than 300 it will hurt you a full heart.

However, if you're in a nopklevel and your AP is less than 40 it won't heal you.
And usually stopping to drink a beer makes you vulnerable (freezes you for 1 second). I figure that if a player stops while PKing to drink, their extra heart is likely to disappear.

maximus_asinus
09-17-2006, 07:22 AM
When a lamer uses the beer, they're usually cautious enough to run far enough away where they can use it without getting hit, but even that isn't needed. If you're PKing, and both parties are on low health (around 1-2 health per person) and then one person heals with a beer (they are healed full health no matter their AP), I doubt they mind being hit once, and the other person wouldn't stand a chance, as it would be 8 hearts VS 1-2 hearts.

Also a lamer wouldn't use the beers so much that they're only healed 1 heart per use. They use the NPC, and continue to lame, and most likely they'll need another beer 20 - 30 later if they're not being careful.

Also the stumbling thing doesn't really have much effect on PKing, usually if you're pressing a direction when you slash, you'll face the proper direction.

jake13jake
09-18-2006, 01:31 AM
Also the stumbling thing doesn't really have much effect on PKing, usually if you're pressing a direction when you slash, you'll face the proper direction.
You wish... pressing the direction arrows triggers your direction to get messed. If someone's able to lame a large amount of kills by using beer, they're probably an above average player. Also, Tyhm, current stumbling inevitably leads to the same outcome as your stumbling algorithm, just a lot cleaner (don't know if YOU wrote it, but ick).

maximus_asinus
09-18-2006, 07:24 AM
You wish... pressing the direction arrows triggers your direction to get messed. If someone's able to lame a large amount of kills by using beer, they're probably an above average player. Also, Tyhm, current stumbling inevitably leads to the same outcome as your stumbling algorithm, just a lot cleaner (don't know if YOU wrote it, but ick).
Actually I don't wish. Spar me next time you're online and give me the drunk system, and I'll show you that anyone can make it work.

Tyhm
09-18-2006, 04:49 PM
You wish... pressing the direction arrows triggers your direction to get messed. If someone's able to lame a large amount of kills by using beer, they're probably an above average player. Also, Tyhm, current stumbling inevitably leads to the same outcome as your stumbling algorithm, just a lot cleaner (don't know if YOU wrote it, but ick).

Yeah, I did. In my defense, it was overriding like 5 other scripts (including the boots and bowling ball; drunken bowling was particularly interesting). This is why I don't claim to have been a particularly good scripter, just a particularly stubborn one...and back in the days before NPCServ, you needed stubborn more than anything.

How often does this timer reset, exactly? Or approximately - after an hour? A day? A week? Never? The stumbling penalty doesn't mean much if they can full-heal, wait a little bit (or relog), and full-heal again...IMHO, the "Full-Heal" should be a % based on AP (the standard
playerhearts+=(int( 2*(playerfullhearts*(playerap/100)) )/2); thingy), so that the polite players can heal themselves during quests without throwing the balance way off, and PKers get maybe a heart out of it.

Hmm, I feel a poll coming on:
What would be the best way to improve the balance re: Beer?
- Longer period of vulnerability
- Heals based on AP
- Won't heal at all based on AP
- Staggering faster
- Slower recovery...

-Ching
09-18-2006, 05:10 PM
Classic is becoming a s***hole, I think it's about time the development staff should start listening to the players, and instead of the 'uh why dont you tell me whats wrong' attitude you give to the players that complain, why dont you get on and play the fkin server yourself and you'll see whats wrong. Man it's bad, I havent played there much in these past couple of weeks, but these past two days I have and it's got really bad.

The Staff roster is getting worse (The GPs being really poor)
The movement system feels like it's been designed by a 8 year old kid
The Exodus spar room (Which is now the main one) is poor (People who arnt in the spar ring can still open and close the ring doors and If there's already one person in the ring and another two run in at the same time, some weird bug happens where there's 3 people in the ring, the 3rd person is warping all around inside the ring, but cant see that he's doing it)

Classic has turned into a pos and the playercount has dropped yet again, it's really annoying to see, and the pathetic 'well-i-like-it-even-if-the-rest-of-the server-doesnt-so-im-not-changing-a-thing' attitude Massokre and Storm seem to have is really screwing the server over.

Polo
09-19-2006, 11:34 PM
I changed it so that when you have <40ap, beers will only heal a maximum of 1 heart (can still injure you, or not heal, for the reasons given above). I'll see how that works out, and can make further adjustments to balance it if needed.

I've been looking at Exodus' spar place, and will try to fix it up in the next few days (moving back to my university property tommorow though, so could be a hectic few days).

I have a few tweaks which I may apply to the hit detection, just for a day or so, to see how people respond. Will speak with Massokre about those before I change anything though. I also have some quite good news and things which I need to discuss with Massokre also, but I wont detail them here as people will just start rumors.

Lets see how things pan out... ^^

newCappa
09-21-2006, 12:34 PM
I changed it so that when you have <40ap, beers will only heal a maximum of 1 heart (can still injure you, or not heal, for the reasons given above). I'll see how that works out, and can make further adjustments to balance it if needed.
Thank you!:cool:

WanDaMan
09-21-2006, 08:58 PM
I just pause at 1 heart and save my 20g :o

jake13jake
09-22-2006, 09:00 PM
I changed it so that when you have <40ap, beers will only heal a maximum of 1 heart (can still injure you, or not heal, for the reasons given above). I'll see how that works out, and can make further adjustments to balance it if needed.

That sounds good.

maximus_asinus
09-22-2006, 09:32 PM
That sounds good.
I asked you to do this a couple months ago and you refused. It only sounds good because he forced it on you.

newCappa
09-23-2006, 12:43 AM
well, we got waht we whant right? (atleast i did) lets just drop this now.

WanDaMan
09-23-2006, 01:22 PM
I have no idea what's occured but I will say that no one is perfect.

Tyhm
09-25-2006, 04:10 AM
No sense looking a gift horse in the mouse.

Although if we want to continue this debate - and I don't know whether or not we do - Massokre, would you like to shift the burden of dealing with these fine-tuning things on MasterStorm, and MasterStorm, would you be willing to take on that responsibility?
Seems it'd free Massokre up to work on quests and the big picture while the GM deals with everyone crying that the bank card doesn't work right when you change your direction in burger refuge...or that people wearing all black with 0 AP are effectively invisible in Ventrue's Fort...or whatever.

maximus_asinus
09-25-2006, 07:18 AM
No sense looking a gift horse in the mouse.

Although if we want to continue this debate - and I don't know whether or not we do - Massokre, would you like to shift the burden of dealing with these fine-tuning things on MasterStorm, and MasterStorm, would you be willing to take on that responsibility?
Seems it'd free Massokre up to work on quests and the big picture while the GM deals with everyone crying that the bank card doesn't work right when you change your direction in burger refuge...or that people wearing all black with 0 AP are effectively invisible in Ventrue's Fort...or whatever.
Yeah Massokre needs all the free time he can get seeing as he fired the remaining staff members tonight. First Exodus quit, then Kevin and I, then Luda. He fires Hell Raven, and PR, and in turn Shimmy quit. Probably a few others I missed.

Crono
09-25-2006, 02:25 PM
well, we got waht we whant right? (atleast i did) lets just drop this now.

hey you used goku's stance in your sig >:[

maximus_asinus
09-25-2006, 02:26 PM
hey you used goku's stance in your sig >:[
Close the hand and put a large sword in it, and he has the Cloud stance from Final Fantasy.

newCappa
09-25-2006, 09:58 PM
hey you used goku's stance in your sig >:[
well, I like that stance.

Luda
09-25-2006, 10:10 PM
well, I like that stance.

I thought you just looked at your avatar and made it kinda like that.

newCappa
09-26-2006, 08:52 AM
yeah, that too.:cool: like i said. I like this stance.

Minoc
09-28-2006, 07:23 AM
Cappa, now you have the ability to restrict it even more. :]

Tyhm
09-29-2006, 04:45 AM
But please don't go on a rampage. Classic's Administration needs to be a relay rather than a time trial - there'll be plenty of time to go back over everything every other admin's done wrong once you've finished the race, but for now, look forward rather than backward.

And my offer stands - if you need any help or source regarding Classic's vainglorious history (such as wanting to look at my craptastical old system, the script for the Zorbi Ring or Bowling, etc) I still got the .zips around here somewhere.

newCappa
09-29-2006, 03:07 PM
Im very glad to hear that! thank you tyhm

jake13jake
09-29-2006, 09:26 PM
But please don't go on a rampage. Classic's Administration needs to be a relay rather than a time trial - there'll be plenty of time to go back over everything every other admin's done wrong once you've finished the race, but for now, look forward rather than backward.

And my offer stands - if you need any help or source regarding Classic's vainglorious history (such as wanting to look at my craptastical old system, the script for the Zorbi Ring or Bowling, etc) I still got the .zips around here somewhere.

I'm still going to script, I'm just going to be my own staff division from now on.

Tyhm
09-30-2006, 10:23 PM
Oh good, nice to have some stability for a change. (I went much the same route myself - The Black Ops, we called ourselves, because scripters shouldn't have to deal with the public, you know, publically. Didn't work, turned out we were all closet glory-hogs.)