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Thallen
09-04-2005, 06:33 AM
This is a desperate plea put out there to anyone who can help this game at it's roots, the classic servers, the sword servers, where a longlived aspect of the game is being bludgeoned carelessly...

What do you do after you complete all of the quests on a server? Sure, you can collect NPCs, make friends here and there, and explore, but everyone who has played Graal and is even faintly recognized is probably known for sparring or PKing. Sparring is being killed on Graal by speedhackers.
Before there was really minor speed, people were using godmode - with the fall of that, it has opened my eyes to exactly how many people do take the time and effort to cheat to win spars. So many people do it, and so little people actually recognize it. I'll admit it - I check out hacks every now and then to see what they do, and nowadays, for the most part, they don't even work for Windows 98. There is one hack in particular going around that allows players to increase their speed by such a small interval as .02 units - I don't think this refers to TPS, or tiles per second. So many people use this hack now that it's ridiculous. .50 is the default set speed. Many use .52, but that is very hard to recognize. What's killing me is seeing players get away with winning spar tournaments using this hack on .54 or .56. It is an obvious speed increase, and is clearly visible to the naked eye. So many staff members fall for the "I have a dual core processor, 5000GB RAM, and a ALPHAx v8800 video card with spinning rims," excuse, or even the popualar, "I just lag."
Out of the small percentage that I do manage to shed light upon and teach this masterful arts of catching speedhackers, an even smaller percentage will punish them, as they say they have no proof. Can anyone on Graal come up with a solution to this? Any way to single out even the most minor speedhackers, any script, anything at all? I am growing so tired of wasting hours on spar tournaments each week to lose by someone using speed, and I know a handful of others are as well.


Please do not respond to this thread if you're not willing to talk about the subject itself. Don't point out anyone who uses any of these hacks, I probably have structured a list much bigger than yours, regardless...

MKxTortoise
09-04-2005, 07:09 AM
Isn't there something in RC that makes the NPC server go nuts if someone is speedhacking?

Darlene159
09-04-2005, 07:13 AM
Isn't there something in RC that makes the NPC server go nuts if someone is speedhacking?There is something you can add, yes
It detects if someone is going over a certain speed, and says something on RC I believe

Lance
09-04-2005, 07:19 AM
There is something you can add, yes
It detects if someone is going over a certain speed, and says something on RC I believe

That would be Stefan's speedhack detection system, configured via the speedhacktolerance= serveroption.

However, I have not seen it set off (or in the logs) for quite some time, despite being on RC on several servers. :\

MKxTortoise
09-04-2005, 07:21 AM
so if that option is there, why doesn't everyone have speedhacktolerance=.5?

I was told once there was an issue that caused laggy sparrers to trip it, but still.

Lance
09-04-2005, 07:22 AM
so if that option is there, why doesn't everyone have speedhacktolerance=.5?

I was told once there was an issue that caused laggy sparrers to trip it, but still.

The recommended value is 90. Stefan has said, however, that tripping it once is not sufficient for a ban (even though lag should not set it off at this level), but just to warn them. If it happens repeatedly, however, a ban is justified.

MKxTortoise
09-04-2005, 07:23 AM
The recommended value is 90. Stefan has said, however, that tripping it once is not sufficient for a ban, but just a warning. If it happens repeatedly, however, a ban is justified.
If that's the case wouldn't it imply a flaw in the command?

Lance
09-04-2005, 07:25 AM
If that's the case wouldn't it imply a flaw in the command?

No, it implies that we as Good Administrators are covering that fraction of a percent that lag could set it off. :)

MKxTortoise
09-04-2005, 07:43 AM
No, it implies that we as Good Administrators are covering that fraction of a percent that lag could set it off. :)
So there is a flaw, then. If the chance is greater than zero, it's flawed.

Lance
09-04-2005, 07:43 AM
So there is a flaw, then.

Nope. The system works exactly as it is designed to (if it's enabled).

Lord Sephiroth
09-04-2005, 08:58 AM
Isn't there a speeding log you can set up so it logs whenever someone goes over a certain speed? Babylon had one for a while, I'll check later to see if it still does, but it logged people going too fast with the account name, speed, and time it was done.

[Edit]
No Babylon doesn't have it any more, but it was around when Babylon was classic / just gone to UC, so it was about a 7 or 8 months ago.

konidias
09-04-2005, 09:07 AM
I'm not sure but I think Stefan's thing checks the speed that the game is running, not the player.... Not really positive on that though.

A solution would be to use scripted movement, with pixel perfect speed. Then you can do serverside checks of the speed to see if it's over a certain value. That usually solves the people who are editing their walk speed with other programs. But a lot of people use those program speed increasers which just increases your entire program's speed. (it makes everything like it's in hyper mode)

If Stefan's script is detecting that, then you're pretty much preventing people from speed hacking, with the combined two safety measures.

napo_p2p
09-04-2005, 09:15 AM
Nope. The system works exactly as it is designed to (if it's enabled).

It worked pretty well at one point. But I think it doesn't work anymore :(.

Smutastic
09-04-2005, 10:35 AM
Sure, you can collect NPCs, make friends here and there, and explore

Or you could scam, hack and act like a prick!

I'll admit it - I check out hacks every now and then to see what they do

Wait, you want speedhackers/godmoders gone but you still try out those programms... because? You could gain some funny advantage like warping/more speed/something else? Logic+1

So many staff members fall for the "I have a dual core processor, 5000GB RAM, and a ALPHAx v8800 video card with spinning rims," excuse, or even the popualar, "I just lag."

Looks like these staff members aren't pretty smart, read the posts above.

I am growing so tired of wasting hours

Aw, I feel sorry for you.

Polo
09-04-2005, 01:06 PM
That would be Stefan's speedhack detection system, configured via the speedhacktolerance= serveroption.

However, I have not seen it set off (or in the logs) for quite some time, despite being on RC on several servers. :\

We had our go off yesterday. I personally see it weekly. For reference, we have ours set to 90 as recommended.

Scripted movement (such as Classic etc...) tends to stop a good proportion of traditional speed trainers, as only the ones that increase the entire Graal work rate get past it.

You cant ever really script a system that checks the distance a player moves and works out if thier speed is boosted. If its clientside it could get disable, and if its serverside you have badwidth/lag implications. You'd also need some way of it not triggering during alternat mevement or cutscenes where the players speed may legitimately be increased. x_x

Malinko
09-04-2005, 04:41 PM
I guess in logic, playerworlds could make a custom heart system and movement system similiar to the original. Then if there is some change within this, then it could show a detection to Administrators in RemoteControl. This only being for spar rooms that is. Of course, this idea could fail.

konidias
09-04-2005, 07:36 PM
You cant ever really script a system that checks the distance a player moves and works out if thier speed is boosted. If its clientside it could get disable, and if its serverside you have badwidth/lag implications. You'd also need some way of it not triggering during alternat mevement or cutscenes where the players speed may legitimately be increased. x_x
It's possible to have something check serverside like every 60 seconds or so. That really wouldn't lag much. All it's doing is comparing your speed variable to the maximum allowed speed.

There's also the possibility of scripting an rc command to check an account's current speed. So if someone reports that a person is moving really fast, the staff could check their walk speed that way. Then it wouldn't have to be doing frequent checks. It depends on how active the staff are and whatnot.

Polo
09-04-2005, 09:08 PM
It's possible to have something check serverside like every 60 seconds or so. That really wouldn't lag much. All it's doing is comparing your speed variable to the maximum allowed speed.

There's also the possibility of scripting an rc command to check an account's current speed. So if someone reports that a person is moving really fast, the staff could check their walk speed that way. Then it wouldn't have to be doing frequent checks. It depends on how active the staff are and whatnot.

Well yes, but for variable editing its quite easy to check/prevent anyway. I'm talking about those who make the graal clock run at an increased rate.

Crono
09-04-2005, 09:11 PM
I'm not going to mention any names but I find it quite ironic that one person here is posting what he/she is posting.

Darlene159
09-04-2005, 09:15 PM
I'm not going to mention any names but I find it quite ironic that one person here is posting what he/she is posting.Agreed, but let's not turn this thread into a flame fest against anyone :redface:

Wormx2
09-04-2005, 09:42 PM
If you kill the current movement system, you'll kill the Blink tech. :frown:

Lots of people are just paranoid. Whats .56 speed? It's nothing too worry about. Them moving one tile quicker than you doesn't make their sword quicker than you hitting the 'S' button. Means they'd run into it faster.

(PS: QS was banned for 'Speed hacking' and then unbanned when he came back on and explained what happened. :asleep: )

Thallen
09-04-2005, 11:58 PM
If you kill the current movement system, you'll kill the Blink tech. :frown:

Lots of people are just paranoid. Whats .56 speed? It's nothing too worry about. Them moving one tile quicker than you doesn't make their sword quicker than you hitting the 'S' button. Means they'd run into it faster.

(PS: QS was banned for 'Speed hacking' and then unbanned when he came back on and explained what happened. :asleep: )
So it's cool to use just a little speed? How about just a little godmode? Using hacks is a legal, don't try to turn the situation around.

Infernix
09-05-2005, 04:00 AM
Ha Thallen your so right I dont even bother trying to spar these days because its gotten so lame. The hacker detection on this game is pathetic and just ruins one of its greatest aspects known as sparring. Ill even admit right now I used to use a speed hack that does the same thing Thallen speaks of. Yet the only reason I used it was because I couldnt to compete with those who did. Why Im saying this is to let you know if you dont fix the problem globally and keep a VERY close update on it its only going to get even worse. Yes, I stopped the whole trainer use thing when stefan updated graal and trainer were not working for awile. What a great time that was I even managed to win the pulse singles spar tourney since I didnt have to compete with "Hackers" as they call them.

Btw GPs out there think they know when someone is hacking. Well you cant know somthing until you use or know how it works. So they are so easily tricked...and some staff on server know who hack yet still support them. And I have a Question. Why the hell do you globals Ban people who hack time after time again and let them go? I meen damn everyone should use a trainer if we can all get away with it. Its Pathetic, Just 1 of the biggest let downs of the PWAand graal in general. This stuff makes me wanna slap stefan in the face with a fish and ask him why he doesnt he or someone else fix it. !pissed! !pissed! !pissed!

ANd P.S. Adding .6 on to your speed is crazy take it from a guy who has done it before.

Polo
09-05-2005, 01:51 PM
You know I've genuinely never had a problem with this. I've certainly never noticed it myself, yet I've always managed to remain 'competetive' to a degree. I've never lost to someone and thought, "Liek omigosh, they is a hax0r", I've thought about thier technique and how to adapt to it to perform better next time.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying that in my experience, I'ts never given them enough of an advantage to make me notice its happening. Id say make sure they are actually abusing before pointing a stick at them.

TB3
09-14-2005, 04:52 PM
Just an idea, delete my post if you don't like it, but you could possibly record the players x/y and level in a database npc every so often in intervals (5 seconds possibly) this information can be used for a multitude of things later. And upon the resaving of information check the new player x/y and if level's are same then you could possibly check the distance travled compared to a maximum value ?

You could possibly even run a seperate client script using timevar2 and a serverr.variable to determine if the player is running over his or her speed limit, (reporting to rc if so) this in conjunction with the above and the allready built in (but not too effecient we allready use it) check maybe that will solve the problem for the most part?

Prior Flame:
- Yes I know the clientside check could be hacked / disabled, but if they miss it or disable it incorrectly they will have allready been reported. And thats why you would have multiple checks to catch the culprit either way.