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Jaquet
01-21-2005, 11:09 PM
All my frineds have been saying that when they installed the new client, graal got really laggy for them and like they move in single frames. It happened to a whole bunch of people and they rebooted the computers and it still lagged. Is this a bug or something? It doesnt lag at all for me but for others it does lag.

xManiamaNx
01-21-2005, 11:20 PM
For me it did the exact opposite. I have no lag. Which client 2.3 or 3.whatever-the-latest-number-is?

Jaquet
01-21-2005, 11:44 PM
They have the new one, they installed it and then was asked to reinstall it and so they did and then they cant even play the game its so laggy

Benm00t
01-22-2005, 12:08 AM
Yeah i heard reports of that today, hasn't happened to me though. Its less laggy.

Jaquet
01-22-2005, 12:10 AM
yeah its less laggy for me too

Blitz_Hunter
01-22-2005, 12:23 AM
It runs alot smoother for me and lag is hardly noticeable, except at certain times. :cool:

Nitkizi
01-22-2005, 01:06 AM
2.3 client runs smoother for me than the 3.13 client. Which one are they using? They are both 'new'.

Admins
01-22-2005, 04:04 AM
They have the new one, they installed it and then was asked to reinstall it and so they did and then they cant even play the game its so laggy

Who asked to reinstall what ?
If v3.1 is slow then please install the latest gfx driver.

maximus_asinus
01-22-2005, 04:10 AM
I didn't find it was very laggy for me other than they people move a little weird. Or maybe thats just classic.

Jaquet
01-22-2005, 04:46 AM
Ok, Misty and her mom were on GK. Her mom said that when she installed the new client, she tried going on GK and it asked for her to update after she did. So she did. It did it on both computers. It installed 2.3 and now when they go on any server, they cant even move because it lags so bad. The tiles dont load on maloria, they cant go on the gmaps on GK, shes stuck in her house pretty much cuz thats the only place it doesnt lag and we dont understand why. It is happening with Alan Steele too.

superb
01-22-2005, 05:15 AM
Ok, Misty and her mom were on GK. Her mom said that when she installed the new client, she tried going on GK and it asked for her to update after she did. So she did. It did it on both computers. It installed 2.3 and now when they go on any server, they cant even move because it lags so bad. The tiles dont load on maloria, they cant go on the gmaps on GK, shes stuck in her house pretty much cuz thats the only place it doesnt lag and we dont understand why. It is happening with Alan Steele too.

I think they should try removing graal completely from their computer and reinstalling it.

ZalleWarriorPrincess
01-22-2005, 05:20 AM
I think they should try removing graal completely from their computer and reinstalling it.
Me and misty share computers.. We have done that.. 3 times already.. >_< Nothing will do except more lag because all the graphics have to download again. And I dont have time to keep doing it.. I have to do things on gk. It's not us its the version of graal.

Eagle
01-22-2005, 05:24 AM
Me and misty share computers.. We have done that.. 3 times already.. >_< Nothing will do except more lag because all the graphics have to download again. And I dont have time to keep doing it.. I have to do things on gk. It's not us its the version of graal.

Are your Drivers up to date?

ZalleWarriorPrincess
01-22-2005, 05:25 AM
Are your Drivers up to date?

I just reformatted my computer and did a windows update of everything. So yes.

superb
01-22-2005, 05:31 AM
I just reformatted my computer and did a windows update of everything. So yes.
You shouldn't use Windows Update for drivers. You need to find the name of your hardware manufacturer and get drivers directly from them.

ZalleWarriorPrincess
01-22-2005, 05:39 AM
You shouldn't use Windows Update for drivers. You need to find the name of your hardware manufacturer and get drivers directly from them.

We aren't computer technicians. We just try to avoid anything that can harm our computer and figure out how to make it run smoother. x_X

ZanderX
01-22-2005, 05:46 AM
We aren't computer technicians. We just try to avoid anything that can harm our computer and figure out how to make it run smoother. x_X

...

You don't have to be a computer technician to install a video card driver.

ZalleWarriorPrincess
01-22-2005, 06:03 AM
I know that.. Just where to go though? That's what I meant.
The thing is.. it's not our computer. I can go on another servers..and it be okay.. a bit slow but when we get on GK. Lag hell. x_x I mean if it was our computer we couldn't play other games.. And we can without problem. It's graal itself.

superb
01-22-2005, 06:07 AM
I know that.. Just where to go though? That's what I meant.
The thing is.. it's not our computer. I can go on another servers..and it be okay.. a bit slow but when we get on GK. Lag hell. x_x I mean if it was our computer we couldn't play other games.. And we can without problem. It's graal itself.
Yeah I wasn't trying to say it wasn't Graal's fault. You aren't the only one having problems. I was just saying you shouldn't rely on windows update for driver updates.

maximus_asinus
01-22-2005, 06:07 AM
I tried the new client on my computer that I've never updated the drivers on and it still works. I don't think thats the problem, and usually everyone suggests that as the course of action.

xManiamaNx
01-22-2005, 06:34 AM
Which `new version' is lagging everyone? 2.3 or the 3.1 client?

Jaquet
01-22-2005, 06:34 AM
the 2.3 is lagging them

xManiamaNx
01-22-2005, 06:36 AM
If it's 2.3, all I can say is to upgrade your vid. card drivers. If that does't help, use the 3.1 client.

maximus_asinus
01-22-2005, 07:31 AM
If it's 2.3, all I can say is to upgrade your vid. card drivers. If that does't help, use the 3.1 client.
They shouldn't be forced to use the 3.1 client. It isn't finished and is very buggy.

Snakeandy7
01-22-2005, 10:34 AM
Why not wait for them to do as people have said? It will probably fix it.

Admins
01-22-2005, 03:33 PM
The default gfx drivers for Windows 2000 and XP are quite ****, you are lucky if games and videos are working. Especially the drivers for Nvidia are quite bad, they crash the computer often.
We will probably add something to v3 to detect the gfx card manufacturer, the gfx card driver version and display a message if its too old or may be directly opening the web site for downloading the driver.

Crono
01-22-2005, 04:08 PM
Stefan I get some sudden frame lags between levels on gmaps. These weren't there before the update. I have the latest ATI drivers and yes my computer can handle graal.

AMD Athlon 2700+ @ Athlon 2100+ (dont ask)
256DDR Original Apacer
ATI Radeon 9800pro
Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm 200gb
Windows 2000 pro

:O

fuNkym0nky0
01-22-2005, 06:28 PM
This is bugging me. Im not lagging at all, but still all my freinds are and I cant play with them. Graal isnt very fun when you dont have freinds to playt with. If this keeps up, youll have a lot of people quitting.

TooManyK9s
01-22-2005, 06:34 PM
We have three computers in the house one wont work at all , one goes frame by frame and the other works the same as before...:/ And that one was the most laggy in the past and was the worst one for playing graal. Strange.The one that wont work at all we just got it this Christmas.Today is redownload day.:)

Admins
01-22-2005, 08:13 PM
I would suggest:
1. Download new gfx driver and install it
2. Close programs that use a lot of cpu time
3. The only thing that I could imagine causing this is the new timing Graal uses to not block the cpu for 99% of the time even if it doesn't need it. If there are other programs running which take a lot of CPU time then those might lag Graal now, although I wouldn't think that the old version of Graal could run fine while those other programs are lagging the computer. It might be possible to add an option to Graal to use the old timing (trying to steal all CPU power without caring about other programs) or automatically do that when Graal is running slow. Will release a new version next week to test that.

superb
01-22-2005, 11:01 PM
Here's my question Stefan...

Why should Graal make people's computers a friggin' oven? It seems to me you just need to work out the kinks in the new system. A game of Graal's calibur should NOT need to use so many CPU cycles. If this were Doom3, maybe I'd understand, but this is GRAAL, not exactly up there on the graphic scale. I can only imagine how many people get 1st degree burns on their legs when playing graal for long periods of time on their laptops... :x

pacMASTA
01-22-2005, 11:08 PM
you have to think though Graal3D is attached to it so maybe even though its no on its using the CPU it would but i dunno

Polo
01-22-2005, 11:09 PM
Here's my question Stefan...

Why should Graal make people's computers a friggin' oven? It seems to me you just need to work out the kinks in the new system. A game of Graal's calibur should NOT need to use so many CPU cycles. If this were Doom3, maybe I'd understand, but this is GRAAL, not exactly up there on the graphic scale. I can only imagine how many people get 1st degree burns on their legs when playing graal for long periods of time on their laptops... :x

Well for a start, the GFX are not the CPU intensive thing as thats all handled by the GFX card. Secondly, Doom 3 uses baddies with predefined logic in a compiled environment, Graal does not. Graal interprets/processes script in real time (although the B-Tree is changing that?). Thirdly... Im using stock cooling and a single added case fan, and i get at most a 1 celcius rise in CPU temperature, which I call insignificant.

Ibonic
01-22-2005, 11:15 PM
you have to think though Graal3D is attached to it so maybe even though its no on its using the CPU it would but i dunno

Graal3D isn't "attached" to Graal 2. Graal 2 is just opening the Graal3.exe when you try to log into a 3D server; If you don't have Graal3.exe, it tells you that you have to download it first.

And that just reminded me that Graal3.exe even while on the Graal3D servers takes less CPU than Graal 2 does for me.

superb
01-22-2005, 11:16 PM
you have to think though Graal3D is attached to it so maybe even though its no on its using the CPU it would but i dunno

Graal3d is less cpu intensive than graal2d...lolz

Ibonic
01-22-2005, 11:25 PM
Im using stock cooling and a single added case fan, and i get at most a 1 celcius rise in CPU temperature, which I call insignificant.
My desktop computer doesn't rise in temperature either, but the auto-sensing fans (controlled by temperature) which normally run slow start going a lot faster to keep the heat down/stable when Graal is running. With fans that run at the same speed all of the time, it's not very noticable. But the temperature increase with laptops is extremely noticable, I actually went out of the way to buy a 'cooling pad' just so I could use Graal 2 for longer periods of time without damaging the hardware.

Polo
01-22-2005, 11:52 PM
My fans dont adjust speed, and on Classic, Graal is only using like 2 or 3% cpu time on my AthlonXP 2600+.... I dont know, I dont exactly think its grossly innefficient.

Ibonic
01-23-2005, 12:12 AM
the GFX are not the CPU intensive thing as thats all handled by the GFX card.
I believe Graal 2 does (or did) use DelphiX; If you look at the samples/tutorials for that, DirectX or OpenGL, most of them take as much CPU as possible before you have anything more than some simple text or a single graphic displayed on the screen -- but those are generally bad coding practices where people continuously redraw the entire scene when it's not needed, or they have no kind of 'sleeping' taking place in the timer. I assume Stefan didn't do something like that, but it's ridiculous when you see how many people do.

Graal is only using like 2 or 3% cpu time on my AthlonXP 2600+

First time I've ever seen that reported >_<
The new level editor only uses 2-3% of the CPU for me too, but I have even better processors than that with good video cards in my desktops and Graal 2.2.2 still uses 99% or as much is available.

Darlene159
01-23-2005, 12:17 AM
Hmm, I find the new updated version great. Everything is alot smoother, and alot less lag for me.
I can even play on UN with little lag, where before it froze my Graal because I lagged so bad.

Polo
01-23-2005, 01:12 AM
Graal 2.2.2 still uses 99% or as much is available.

Graal 2.2.2 is not the current verion though. Since 2.3 it has been optimised to not take full CPU time.

superb
01-23-2005, 01:14 AM
Graal 2.2.2 is not the current verion though. Since 2.3 it has been optimised to not take full CPU time.

And Stefan said he was going to put THAT BACK IN. That was what my post was about in the first place... x.x

Ibonic
01-23-2005, 01:53 AM
Graal 2.2.2 is not the current verion
I typed it out for that reason, in hope that people will know I was referring to the old version. And I mentioned what I did about heat and so on because I also thought we were talking about Stefan readding the CPU hammering / personal oven feature from pre-2.3 versions.

Admins
01-23-2005, 02:29 AM
And Stefan said he was going to put THAT BACK IN. That was what my post was about in the first place... x.x

The question is if Graal should go back into the old mode when it's running slow, e.g. if people ignore to install good gfx drivers. v2.3 and v3.1 should only take 3-5% CPU time on a normal PC, but if you have a bad gfx driver or programs running which take a lot of cpu time then the new version might be slower because it is not trying to steall all the cpu time.

Skyld
01-23-2005, 02:43 AM
2.2 and forward have always baen laggier than 3.0 and forward for me, despite my graphics drivers. So I just use 3.1 now. :)

Ibonic
01-23-2005, 02:44 AM
The question is if Graal should go back into the old mode when it's running slow ...

That might be the easiest solution, but probably not the best.

If you decide to make it automatically detect if it's running slow, can you add some kind of override so that it doesn't force you to use the old timing? Maybe even ask in a dialog, e.g. "Graal has detected a very low frame rate, would you like to try the pre-2.3 timing method?" and then save the preference which can also be toggled in the options window.

Jaquet
01-23-2005, 01:27 PM
Alright, for all the people who lag real bad with the new clients of graal. We found the problem. Misty/Reiko/Nayoko's Computers were running on 32 bit color and so they lowered it down a little to 24 bit to maybe 16 bit im not sure (i use 16 bit and its very smooth) and the lag went away. So maybe the client doesnt support 32 bit colors and it causes the lag because it tries loading up so many colors? If you lag try lowering your your colors by going to start/settings/control panel/display/settings and set the colors lower than 32 bit.

superb
01-23-2005, 02:05 PM
Alright, for all the people who lag real bad with the new clients of graal. We found the problem. Misty/Reiko/Nayoko's Computers were running on 32 bit color and so they lowered it down a little to 24 bit to maybe 16 bit im not sure (i use 16 bit and its very smooth) and the lag went away. So maybe the client doesnt support 32 bit colors and it causes the lag because it tries loading up so many colors? If you lag try lowering your your colors by going to start/settings/control panel/display/settings and set the colors lower than 32 bit.
that's a graphics driver issue; it has nothing to do with graal.

Admins
01-23-2005, 06:42 PM
Alright, for all the people who lag real bad with the new clients of graal. We found the problem. Misty/Reiko/Nayoko's Computers were running on 32 bit color and so they lowered it down a little to 24 bit to maybe 16 bit im not sure (i use 16 bit and its very smooth) and the lag went away. So maybe the client doesnt support 32 bit colors and it causes the lag because it tries loading up so many colors? If you lag try lowering your your colors by going to start/settings/control panel/display/settings and set the colors lower than 32 bit.

It of course takes double the video memory if you use 32 bit. It can also take more normal memory depending on the video driver. Drawing the images onto screen can take longer if it's 24 bit or 32 bit, old NVidia cards were optimized for 16 bit.

unixmad
01-23-2005, 06:50 PM
Can be good to test speed when we start graal and if it's slow we can propose to reduce to less than 32 bit mode ...

Should be also possible when we start directx to force less than 32 bit mode ? What's your point of view Stefan ?

Shaun
01-23-2005, 07:41 PM
I use 32 bit and everything runs smoothly for me; however, there is more lag (than previous versions) when I slash a person. Hit delay some call it.

Projectshifter
01-24-2005, 08:21 AM
We aren't computer technicians. We just try to avoid anything that can harm our computer and figure out how to make it run smoother. x_X
Wait, you want to avoid trying to harm your computer yet you ran Windows Update?

Can be good to test speed when we start graal and if it's slow we can propose to reduce to less than 32 bit mode ...

Should be also possible when we start directx to force less than 32 bit mode ? What's your point of view Stefan ?
Yes when you draw windows with OpenGL/SDL (torque engine uses similar) it asks for the bit rate for vid cards so you should be able to choose what rate to show things at :) 32bit is actually just 24bit with some technical things ;)

Kaimetsu
01-24-2005, 08:38 AM
Wait, you want to avoid trying to harm your computer yet you ran Windows Update?

PS, you just make yourself look stupid when you say these kinds of things. Please show evidence of any harm that:


Isn't quickly rectified
Exceeds tolerable limits, as compared to other operating systems
Outweighs the benefit from security fixes


Otherwise I can only assume that you are acting on some ridiculous zealous assumptions without bothering to check the facts.

32bit is actually just 24bit with some technical things ;)

I would not think that an alpha channel qualifies as 'technical'.

Admins
01-25-2005, 04:42 PM
24 bit often need to be stored as 32bit value so many drivers just offer 32 bit as option and not 24 bit, even if 8 bit are completely wasted (we are speaking about the color depth of the display not of a texture, displays don't have transparency ;) ).
When using OpenGL or DirectX in window mode then the game must use the color depth of the current video mode, it has no choice. The only way to change the color depth would be to change the color depth of the desktop or go into fullscreen mode where it can do whatever it wants to do. I think the best thing is to open a webpage when the game is running slow, and on that webpage we give tips&tricks for speeding up the game.