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craig17
01-10-2005, 01:19 PM
WHy would you reset everything on classic I had all the oldbie items red fork had it all from long logn tiem ago had all the new quests done had everythign complete was just nice to wlak around on there and do my own thing alot of thsoe can't get anymore and all the new crap have to get again wtf no wonder why the graal servers are dying so much from the day it went p2p to Unimax loosing it to hacks people remking player worlds over and over again all the dam resets on certain servers or them being takin down now all the graal 3d and fairy land crap how long is that going to last before its reset, you guyes need to do somethign for the peopel and stick with it not move on to another project everytime somethign new gets thrown you way, these servers were actualy good one time when they were maintained properly. but why would u change classic of all any servers man dam.........

petro1212
01-10-2005, 02:17 PM
WHy would you reset everything on classic thast FU***** bullshi** had all the oldbie items red fork had it all from long logn tiem ago had all the new quests done had everythign complete was just nice to wlak around on there and do my own thing alot of thsoe can't get anymore and all the new crap have to get again wtf no wonder why the graal servers are dying so much from the day it went p2p to Unimax loosing it to hacks people remking player worlds over and over again all the dam resets on certain servers or them being takin down now all the graal 3d and fairy land crap how long is that going to last before its reset, you guyes need to do somethign for the peopel and stick with it not move on to another project everytime somethign new gets thrown you way, these servers were actualy good one time when they were maintained properly. but why would u change classic of all any servers man dam.........
<Edit>Persoanl attacks arent needed<Edit>

Unpredlctable
01-10-2005, 03:39 PM
Well, though neither of your posts really will do anything, because their just a series of rants and raves to get us Classic to change back to a server which is no longer up (only, what, a week later?).
You can't expect the developement team to complete Classic and give you back every single one of your old items (which have to be rescripted to work with the NPC Server, every one of them). Sure, it would've been better and would have made everyone a lot less angry if the basics were completed first before getting rid of Graal the Adventure and releasing Classic Dev.

Darlene159
01-10-2005, 03:42 PM
I am pretty sure that they had to do a reset because they now have the NPC server, otherwise you would just get disconnected constantly for having items in your account that dont work with the NPC server.

Emily_Cruddas
01-10-2005, 03:45 PM
True, classic was only built upon since it was made, and alot of the quests were said to not work right at times, my guess is that someone wanted to make classic just right, but it may never be like it once was, the reason?....stefan is not the one making everything again. :frown:

Unpredlctable
01-10-2005, 03:50 PM
Everyone whined because we didn't get the NPC Server for the longest time, now they're whining more because not it's not the same.
Just give it time. Like I said, it's been only a week now.

syltburk
01-10-2005, 03:50 PM
Classic will never be like it was, even if we dont have a npc server or not. Alot of the oldiez back @ the days have now quit.

protagonist
01-10-2005, 04:41 PM
Classic will never be like it was, even if we dont have a npc server or not. Alot of the oldiez back @ the days have now quit.

They didn't start out "oldiez".

I might actually start playing, now that everyone's on the same level.

syltburk
01-10-2005, 05:20 PM
:d:d

Inspiration
01-10-2005, 06:19 PM
They removed a ton of content from the server, yet over 1-2 years have nothing "New" to show, or even improvements in the levels?

Snakeandy7
01-10-2005, 06:32 PM
That's true, Inspiration. I never looked at it that way :[

Darlene159
01-10-2005, 07:27 PM
They removed a ton of content from the server, yet over 1-2 years have nothing "New" to show, or even improvements in the levels?Hmm, maybe the content was removed in order to update it and make it work with the npc server....I hear they werent done with it when it was converted, anyway from what I have seen and heard, Classic wants to keep the classic feel.

Inspiration
01-10-2005, 07:57 PM
That would normally make sense, but I worked there, I know how well things are being "done".

I'm just saying, does that look like a year, or even a months, worth of work? Maybe they will suprise me and come out with a crapload of new content, who knows.

Polo
01-10-2005, 11:16 PM
Right. I became Classic Manager in April 2004, so thats 8 to 9 months ago, and straight away myself and Selflon started working on the NPC server trying to continue where Tyhm had left it. The problem was we had no kind of working movement for the server, and stuff like bombs and bows were just screwed.

Nothing was working properly, and by converting the existing classic it just meant that it was getting buggier by the day. After just over amonth it was decided that it was too messy/broken to continue, and so the server was wiped clean. This was about 7 months ago now. With a fresh server, I set about touching up a few of the main levels and getting asmall overworld up so that I had room top develop on. At this point I also made it so normal players could log on, thus providing me with feedback.

Over the next few months, I worked on various script and behind the scenes stuff such as totally rescripting the movement, and adding various chat based command, and reworking the Staff Tool's, basically ensuring that a tight framework was ready, making it easy for us to develop for, allowing to develop quests and the like a lot fast that we could before wiping.

At the start of October (3 months ago), I moved to university, and the ports for Graal are blocked here, so I can only get on from one of the copmputing labs (although they are sorting our the ports for me). This meant I couldn't really work during this time. In the 3 weeks I was home for christmas I worked like a small demigod to get the NPC Server ready to a playable state.

Now when you ask me why theres little in the way of content, realize that I've not had the 3 years of development time you all seem to think I've had. Also realise that classic was at a point where it simply no longer represented the history of graal, thats another reason why the content is gone. I'm by no means lazy, so please, be patient with me.

Inspiration
01-10-2005, 11:53 PM
Never attacked you yourself, but you have certain staff members who need a very large attitude re-ajustment.

craig17
01-13-2005, 12:26 PM
Well I guess its something some of us will miss maybe it one day will be up to date and maybe better I always wanted it to grow bigger but by then I liked it the way it was so, guess we'll see just long time here prolly before this account got banned and renewed with p2p had 3000 hours then with friends accounts had a good another 2000 hours give or take, but just all the good times thats all. I'll be looking forward to see how it all goes maybe Ill jump into it again

Rufus
01-14-2005, 07:22 PM
What about the ideas that were Graal The Adventure, the quests and such?

Snakeandy7
01-14-2005, 07:26 PM
I like the new 'classic'. It's fun :P

TB3
01-14-2005, 08:09 PM
Im not reading most of your comments so forgive me if this has been said but...
1 most weapons would have worked if //#CLIENTSIDE was added except many
of them dealing with gralats would have not / as well as warp rings would have to have triggeraction,x,y,serverside,#w; in them so its not for that reason.
2. And didnt they have a Dev server ?? shouldnt this have all been calculated and tested before release? I don't play classic any more , I am just wondering why this happened? W
Well anywayz good luck fixing it or improving it or whatevery ur doing to / with it XD

Polo
01-14-2005, 08:40 PM
We got loadsa bugs out using the Dev server, but as ever, we needed a lot more people on to make sure everything was ironed out. True a lot of the simpler items can easily beconverted, but some cannot, such as any that deal with attacking. Additionally, we hope to bring back a lot of the old skool weapons like the gelat snake.

TB3
01-14-2005, 08:56 PM
We got loadsa bugs out using the Dev server, but as ever, we needed a lot more people on to make sure everything was ironed out. True a lot of the simpler items can easily beconverted, but some cannot, such as any that deal with attacking. Additionally, we hope to bring back a lot of the old skool weapons like the gelat snake.
Which ones couldnt be used? for attacking that is ? Arent you still using playerhurt and playerdies ect... / old heart sys ?

Polo
01-14-2005, 09:38 PM
No i totally reded all the hit detection, movement and health system. its all visually the same, but under the bonnet i can do a lot more stuff now.

Snakeandy7
01-14-2005, 10:51 PM
Spin attack please!!

DarkShadows_Legend
01-15-2005, 12:19 AM
I was wondering what was up with the hit detection. It seemed off by a few tiles.
I like that you guys killed off the lag. I can play there more often now. :)

Projectshifter
01-15-2005, 01:58 AM
1 most weapons would have worked if //#CLIENTSIDE was added except many
of them dealing with gralats would have not / as well as warp rings would have to have triggeraction,x,y,serverside,#w; in them so its not for that reason.
I really wish you would not speak on matters which you do not know. You make it seem like Polo was dumb for not just adding //#CLIENTSIDE. That is a VERY common misconception. Keyword there is misconception, because that is what it is. Scripts are not that simple. You have to do a lot more than just make it clientside, and even if this were the case, it would not make them secure, which leads to problems.


Also regarding new content and such... I hate to point out the blatently obvious, but the word classic is defined as "Having lasting significance or worth; enduring. " as one of the ways on dictionary.com It's not supposed to be something with the latest and greatest. It's supposed to be nostalgic. It shows the old way that Graal used to be, but now it's been updated with the NPCServer so there is greater control over things, and so that things are more efficient. The levels and all that were not meant to change and the point of Classic getting a new NPC Server wasn't for it to be all-new. So please, accept that classic is, well, Classic, and it's meant to be like that for a reason.

HoudiniMan
01-15-2005, 02:10 AM
No i totally reded all the hit detection, movement and health system. its all visually the same, but under the bonnet i can do a lot more stuff now.

Personally, the new movement and fighting repulses me.

I understand why it was done and all, but Graal has a perfectly useable movement system built in, the CLASSIC movement system. I have to publicly object to this change because it changes how people interact with each other.

It feels fake, scripted, and people have to fight where the npcserver is detecting their hit, instead of each other.

If you guys reverted to the normal built in movement system I'd definately come back. As of now, however, I have very little interest in returning.

oinknessx
01-15-2005, 02:13 AM
Personally, the new movement and fighting repulses me.

I understand why it was done and all, but Graal has a perfectly useable movement system built in, the CLASSIC movement system. I have to publicly object to this change because it changes how people interact with each other.

It feels fake, scripted, and people have to fight where the npcserver is detecting their hit, instead of each other.

If you guys reverted to the normal built in movement system I'd definately come back. As of now, however, I have very little interest in returning.
Oooh you told them. :frown: I concur.

HoudiniMan
01-15-2005, 02:15 AM
Oooh you told them. :frown: I concur.

I'm not trying to insult them or "own" them... I'm just stating my strong opinion on this new movement jazz.

Polo
01-15-2005, 03:27 AM
The problem is that a lot of things such as bombs and arrows do not work on the gmap when using old movement and hit detection. I tried to get it as close as I could, and i'm always tweaking it to make pk more fun/enjoyable.

One of the main problems is that a lot of the old content was buggy and this was made even worse when an npc server was added. Its more a case of totally recreating everything rather than converting the old stuff. It would be helpful if people were constructive and helped me improve the server rather than just spamming me to change it back. Thats not gonna happen, so get over it >_<

HoudiniMan
01-15-2005, 03:33 AM
I would definately try to help you improve it but I don't believe i'm qualified. I encourage anybody with STRONG experience in movement systems to lend a hand in any way they can to work towards the smoothess of the old system.

Polo
01-15-2005, 04:17 AM
I dont really know what is 'unsmooth' about what is currently there

Nappa
01-15-2005, 04:30 AM
I dont really know what is 'unsmooth' about what is currently there

I was able to hit people from like 3 tiles away the first day the npc server was up. I don't know if that's changed now though.

Polo
01-15-2005, 06:05 AM
I was able to hit people from like 3 tiles away the first day the npc server was up. I don't know if that's changed now though.

Ahhh... only if you are real laggy or somthing

oinknessx
01-15-2005, 06:35 AM
I didn't know Classic had a system! But then again, I probably had a total of 2 hours on classic within the last 4 years.. :frown:

Snakeandy7
01-15-2005, 11:09 AM
I prefer new classic, I like the new movement system aswell. I think it is very nice :D

Tyhm
01-17-2005, 07:56 AM
Look. I had a real simple theory for it all.
Have Stefan set up a special NPCServer where everything's assumed to be CLIENTSIDE unless it specfically says otherwise (like a clientside tag at the end). Where Toweapons still works, playerrupees++ was still a command, etcetera. Then we'd fix it one command at a time, and as we went, we'd disable the old clientside commands.
"Simple." And we'd stay motivated because we'd be making progress.

But Stefan said it was quite impossible, and so we had to convert three or four years essentially from scratch. Not just that but reinvent arrows for serverside. Swords for serverside. Hearts for serverside. MOVEMENT for serverside. BADDIES for serverside. BOMBS for serverside. ITEMS for serverside. FRELLING SIGNS FOR SERVERSIDE. "SAY 3" IS NO LONGER A COMMAND.

So my head exploded and I quit. And these young revolutionaries took it upon themselves to take my toil, three years of my life, dig it out of the dumpster and try and make it playable again.

Thank you.

Curt1zzle
01-17-2005, 08:09 AM
They didn't start out "oldiez".

I might actually start playing, now that everyone's on the same level.

I was born an oldbie.

I skipped the whole fetus thing and crawled out on my own. >_<

Nappa
01-17-2005, 08:18 AM
I dont understand why you would need to make your own health and fighting systems.. ? (I don't play classic, so forgive me if its something different or complex)

Polo
01-17-2005, 10:40 AM
I dont understand why you would need to make your own health and fighting systems.. ? (I don't play classic, so forgive me if its something different or complex)

Were using gmap's, and the built in bombs and bows dont work on gmaps. This means we had to convert all the fighting (hit detection) to serverside, and to do that we had to disable the old swords, which meant using disabledefmovement;, thus requiring a rewrite of the movement.

The system is exactly the same as before the npc server, except now the hit detection is serverside, and spar rating and ap (which is now pk rating) are changed to a (better?) system. Apart from that there is probably a <5% minority difference where the rewrite isn't exactly the same, but thats not noticable.

TB3
01-18-2005, 09:39 AM
I really wish you would not speak on matters which you do not know.
Thats why i was inquiring O_o I didn't know what problems he may have been running into.

You make it seem like Polo was dumb for not just adding //#CLIENTSIDE.

Not my intentions I did not know that the damage / hit detection system was rescripted , I was under the impression that it was still the built in sword hit detection thats why i asked

That is a VERY common misconception. Keyword there is misconception, because that is what it is. Scripts are not that simple. You have to do a lot more than just make it clientside, and even if this were the case, it would not make them secure, which leads to problems.

Yes I know this well, however most of classics weapons as I remember them were not as complex to have needed a buttload of rescripting. However with a new damage / health system that may be otherwize.


Also regarding new content and such... I hate to point out the blatently obvious, but the word classic is defined as "Having lasting significance or worth; enduring. " as one of the ways on dictionary.com It's not supposed to be something with the latest and greatest. It's supposed to be nostalgic. It shows the old way that Graal used to be, but now it's been updated with the NPCServer so there is greater control over things, and so that things are more efficient. The levels and all that were not meant to change and the point of Classic getting a new NPC Server wasn't for it to be all-new. So please, accept that classic is, well, Classic, and it's meant to be like that for a reason.
That wasnt directed at me , but agreed.

Were using gmap's, and the built in bombs and bows dont work on gmaps. This means we had to convert all the fighting (hit detection) to serverside, and to do that we had to disable the old swords, which meant using disabledefmovement;, thus requiring a rewrite of the movement.

The system is exactly the same as before the npc server, except now the hit detection is serverside, and spar rating and ap (which is now pk rating) are changed to a (better?) system. Apart from that there is probably a <5% minority difference where the rewrite isn't exactly the same, but thats not noticable.
I don't completley see why the new movement system / swords but yet I haven't used them on gmaps before.
But it sounds good , good luck with it. XD

yojimbokintoray
01-18-2005, 11:50 PM
classic is doomed and i blame you all...

stefan should readd the year 2000 server it did own if they did not add newbish staffs and started adding new lvl's..
A 2000 server would be way better then the **** storm is making for classic.

StrykerTFFD
01-19-2005, 12:47 AM
More lovely input from Raistlin.

It's pretty obvious the Classic server was rushed to get a NPC Server version up. I'm sure with a little more time other things could've been finished, but heck this works. People should stop assuming this is the "finished" product and realize we're far from done. :cool:

Polo
01-19-2005, 12:58 AM
- Classic Clientside-mode removed: Classic has been
switched to use NPC-Server, so the client doesn't need
insecure script commands like "toweapons" anymore

It wasn't really rushed to get up. Classic server mode was being removed and thats why it was more important to get nice working movement and hit detection so that we could open rather than working on quests.

StrykerTFFD
01-19-2005, 12:59 AM
They were removing Classic server mode...so of course it was rushed. x_x

Polo
01-19-2005, 01:02 AM
I like to prefer the term a switch of priorities.

If we'd had more time we'd have done loadsa quests n stuff, but alas we didn't I dont think the server was not ready to go up, but I think it could be a lot more complete. Hence, I dont think it was rushed.