PDA

View Full Version : Icky Rank


Zurkiba
11-27-2004, 07:58 PM
RP Student?

You cant get furthur away from RPing then to have an official rank, 'RP Student'

Change it to something more rpish like Immigrant or Student

meishanli
11-27-2004, 08:21 PM
Mmm, currently theres some new players who doesn't understand very much about RP, so they agreed to be in a learning group.

Mikogens=Immigrants

They have to know the basics at least. There's quite a handful of Mikogens sometimes, and it's confusing to remember who is who. So the rank "RP Student" makes it easier(for myself and the co-leaders) to see the certain people who needs to be worked with. :)

Zurkiba
11-27-2004, 08:33 PM
Mmm, currently theres some new players who doesn't understand very much about RP, so they agreed to be in a learning group.

Mikogens=Immigrants

They have to know the basics at least. There's quite a handful of Mikogens sometimes, and it's confusing to remember who is who. So the rank "RP Student" makes it easier(for myself and the co-leaders) to see the certain people who needs to be worked with. :)
But it's just a horrid rank... just turn it into Student.

zell12
11-27-2004, 09:17 PM
If you can't remember that Student = RP Student, you shouldn't be the leader.

meishanli
11-27-2004, 09:40 PM
But it's just a horrid rank... just turn it into Student.

Makes sense, did so. Thanks.

If you can't remember that Student = RP Student, you shouldn't be the leader.

Never said that. I said sometimes theres quite a handful of Mikogens makes it hard to remember who is who.

LordZen
12-01-2004, 03:11 AM
Why give immigrants a special title when they shouldn't have any special recognition to begin with? They are brand new to the kingdom.

Not trying to be a jerk, I just feel like all those rank name changes was counter productive to the modernization ideal. Making everything more confusing, rather than less.

Emily_Cruddas
12-01-2004, 04:19 AM
That's what you get when you allow the throne to go to someone just because their related. :cool:



Were the people of Zormite Republic allowed to agree who was next ruler? If my info is correct passing the title like that is just so....unrepublic like....

LordZen
12-02-2004, 10:58 AM
I guess your idea of what a republic specifically defines is a little flawed, then.

The people do not directly make the decisions in a republic, that is a democracy. In a republic, representatives do all that for them.

xAndrewx
12-03-2004, 10:57 AM
I don't see why people are complaining, they only do this to annoy you, Most of the people who posted don't play and don't offer advice.

sage_scooby
12-03-2004, 11:06 AM
I just dont see how it matters. This isnt real life and it is not a representation of real life. So why does it even matter. Its just a game and whether you view it as a flawed system or not is your opinion. And like most things in which you have an opinion on yours doesnt matter.

csod123
12-07-2004, 03:50 AM
That's what you get when you allow the throne to go to someone just because their related. :cool:



Were the people of Zormite Republic allowed to agree who was next ruler? If my info is correct passing the title like that is just so....unrepublic like....
i would also like to add that Zen is right, a TRUE republic is run by officials, and that you cannot judge a ruler when they first come, it is just dumb. i am confident that Akira will make a great leader. ^^

Emily_Cruddas
12-07-2004, 10:29 AM
Ok, i'm a bit more intelligent now, thank you LordZen. =)



I would still like to know one thing, who represents Zormite? Just whoever is in charge at the time? Or a select few?

csod123
12-08-2004, 01:56 AM
the select few are supposed to be but i don't know about Zormite, i got low rank :(

darkemporor
12-08-2004, 04:21 AM
RP Student?

You cant get furthur away from RPing then to have an official rank, 'RP Student'

The 'RP Student' tag was not created as an actual roleplaying rank. It was created for potential newcomers outside the kingdom who were interested in receiving RP training. A non-RP, _temporary_ tag (RP Student) was created so these 'RP Students' could enter the castle for training classes in a controlled environment. It also made it easy to identify students from immigrants who might also be involved in such training.

The tag should be removed at the end of each training session since those who wear it are not members of Zormite and do not serve in a roleplaying capacity whatsoever. After two RP training sessions, the RP Student can enter Zormite with the Mikogen (immigrant) rank as an entry level RP rank.


Why give immigrants a special title when they shouldn't have any special recognition to begin with? They are brand new to the kingdom.

The Mikogen rank is not a special title. 'Mikogen' replaces the word 'Immigrant'. Its RP significance is unchanged.

We feel the word 'immigrant' is out of place in the Zormite ranking system (being an English word) while most ranks above it had names derivative of Greek words. Rather than asking why immigrants get a special title, we asked why any English word belonged at all in this arrangement. Eventually, all the random English rank titles were replaced with original names that are more consistant with prevailing Zormite ranks.

For a reference of current Zormite ranks and their meanings :
New Rank Systems of the Zormite Republic (http://forums.graal2001.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54821)

Wren Sagesun Archigos
Eldekahn (aka Chancellor) of the Zormite Republic

LordZen
12-08-2004, 05:57 AM
Like Dictatress, Chancellor, Citizen, Statesman, Ambassador, Nobleman, Postmaster, Duelist, Sentry, or the more historical: Trademaster?

Point is, Immigrant was not out of place, Wren. Titles such as Archist, and those existing within the former Ministry of Religion had more original names for a reason, not because that was the way it all should have been. The political ideology of "Archism" received its name as a derivative from the royal family's name whom the group of loyalists rallied around. Archist is a natural extension from the term Archism, similar to how a Democrat would be a member of the Democratic party.

Titles in the Ministry of Religion had special names because they refered to religious men and women adhereing to the principles of an established religious cult.

A government is something that should bring order to the land it governs. It does not make much sense if the people of a nation go through great pains restructuring the government of one's land, with the goal of greater stability and order, only to cause more confusion by adopting new names for the positions people would hold that are not of the same tongue that all of the people of the nation speak!

.....I would know. :\

darkemporor
12-08-2004, 05:12 PM
Like Dictatress, Chancellor, Citizen, Statesman, Ambassador, Nobleman, Postmaster, Duelist, Sentry, or the more historical: Trademaster?

Point is, Immigrant was not out of place, Wren....(It doesn't make sense to) cause... confusion by adopting new names for the positions people would hold that are not of the same tongue that all of the people of the nation speak!

What language do Zormites speak, Zen? English? I dont think this is a supportable argument for having both English and Greek derivative rank names in our ranking structure for several reasons.

Listen, I reigned as Dictatress a full year and am still active in the leadership of Zormite. Frankly, it has always been very difficult to get players to RP the political end of Zormite culture. They're just not as interested in it as you are, Zen. No offense, but the constitution is incomplete and hard to understand for most players.

Even so, I preserve your political concepts out of personal respect for you. I have strived to remain sensitive to your contributions to Zormite. But I'm telling you, I have found (1) when people enter the political system of Zormite, they stop actively RPing. (2) The criticism from outside has been too great to ignore in regards to the lack of roleplaying and originality in our kingdom.

You approved, with great praise, my addition of the Ministry of Information, which has rank names entirely created from Greek derivatives (like the MoR). In fact, so closely did it align with your philosophy, you mistakenly took credit for it's creation in another thread. You also expressed approval of the ministry of Arcane Arts rank names. If its good for the MoR and the MoI and the MoAA, its surely good for the political and social structures as well. The same creativity logically applies to the governmental ranks.

Should originality be exclusive to the ministry of religion? Ancient culture effects modern cultures. It stands to reason Zormite modern ranks (including both political and social) would have been named with influences from ancient languages and religions. This would apply to all the ministries, not excluding modern day ranks. Making the rank names fit across the entire spectrum of the ranking structure makes more sense, and is more original and more consistent.



"Archism" received its name as a derivative from the royal family's name.... Archist is a natural extension from the term Archism...

So is Archion and Archioness and all the ranks with 'archi' prefixes. True, they aren't rank names YOU created, but they do fit your criteria, and mine, having origins established with the royal family name of Archigos. While I made every attempt to respect and preserve your ideology of Zormite's governmental structure in all that I did, and the original ministries as you envisioned them, please allow me a small bit of room to be creative and contribute my own personal touches as well. Oddly, you have been the only person to criticize the rank name changes. To those who study the RP meanings and who actually play Kingdoms, the new rank names have been entirely supported.

Wren Sagesun Archigos, Eldekahn of Zormite

LordZen
12-08-2004, 11:37 PM
I was supportive of the rank names in the Ministry of Arcane Arts because that goes hand and hand with the same ancient teachings premis which the religious sect was expected to follow.

I was and still am supportive of alot of it, it just bugged me when a whole aspect of my methodology is wiped out and replaced by something that was only intended to reign over specific parts of the government structure.

The military, government positions, the political structure, and social titles should have been left alone by in large.
Taken from a txt document created on April 27, 2003

This view of Archism can be more generalized into being "a political belief in which stability of a state is sought to be enhanced by modernizing a government, while preserving important traditional values of the culture. A constant emphasis on the importance of maintaining a functioning independent governing body is evident in the policies enforced within an Archist system."
The traditional values being preserved in the religion and study of ancient magic, etc in the way of rank titles. But mostly in Archism, that statement deals with the importance of the monarchy and its last ruling family. Modernization should have been apparent in the operations of government, which would include the military and most other government positions. Strategus was not a word I made up, like most of hte others were that where in the ministry of Religion. It already existed in the english language.

I just feel like some of the more recent rank changes was taking a step backwards, rather than forward.

Ah and let them all say what they want. It does not require one to make up words to be original. It just means you have to be different than everybody else and your predassesors. If there is any real outcry against what the Republic's basis was, then it was because we were being far too original, rather than not enough.

And your right, the new leaders of any kingdom has the right to do with it whatever he or she chooses. Even as much as I may not like it. You are allowed plenty of freedoms, also, to operate within the framework I created, but I tell you this: this most recent change is not consistant with my vision.

Thats all I am gonna say.

Sorry we got into it in this thread, I know you dont like that. I didnt intend on it, I just made a statement and you rebutted so, I rebutted as well, lol.

darkemporor
12-09-2004, 03:16 AM
Forgive me but, what document are you quoting Zen?

Wren

Zurkiba
12-09-2004, 03:49 AM
Actually the Zormites do speak a form of English. As English is the common language, all of the kingdoms speak a single language. The Zormites are different though, their S's become Z's.

Personally when I lead I got latin names for a few, and made the kingdom have a unique 'Roman Tribal' theme. Like my mounted people were the [insert Latin name here] which stands for Fishmonger.

LilNiglet
12-09-2004, 04:28 AM
Mmm, currently theres some new players who doesn't understand very much about RP, so they agreed to be in a learning group.

Mikogens=Immigrants

They have to know the basics at least. There's quite a handful of Mikogens sometimes, and it's confusing to remember who is who. So the rank "RP Student" makes it easier(for myself and the co-leaders) to see the certain people who needs to be worked with. :)
Edited by Wren: Please try to be less insulting.

LordZen
12-09-2004, 07:54 AM
Forgive me but, what document are you quoting Zen?

Wren
Its a txt file I have in my Zormite Republic folder, "NAPZ.txt". I have quoted from it a couple times in the past I think.

I also have a txt file with the proper names and accounts of all Archigos family members up until around the time I resigned, a txt file with an early ZR rank structure, a log of me and Lance arguing about the Astri issue, a recruiting requirements list w/ blacklist at bottom, an apology txt file to Lyndzey documenting my disapproval of former Strategus Bosh's invasions of Samurai soil without my consent (Zormites first offensive war on GK), gfx for the Zormite Blade, shield, unreleased Katar, unlreleased sword, ganis for the unreleased sword, bmp's of zormite armor and helmet concepts, concept art of a zormite water-zombie monster, a file providing basis for a zormite religion courtesy of InuMaru, um a backup of Zormite members as of June 5th 2003, etc.

I also have a rough draft version of the constitution, and I have 2 notes at the bottom about what the first 2 amendments were supposed to be. Forgot about the 2nd one. >_<
------

Amendment I. < Outlawing of Opposing Political Parties >

Amendment II. <Establishing the Title of "Dictator" for the Senior Official>

And if you want to see NAPZ.txt in its entirty:
~National Archist Party of Zormite (NAPZ)~

This political party was the first formed after the Zormite Reconstruction Era of 1603-1608AE. During that period, the monarchial system fell apart, and radical reforms were implemented to modernize the government. These reforms were seen as absolutely crucial to the survival of the state, because during this period Zormite witnessed many of its neighbors going through revolution after revolution. The excessive exchanging of power among those states (leader after leader) was seen as a weakness. The leaders of Zormite sought a method to circumvent similar happenings within their borders, and when Zormite Golden Age ended, panic ensued.

The National Archist Party of Zormite (NAPZ) emerged as the only truly organized group prepared to take on the responsibilites of governing the people. They were a group of loyalists to the former ruling family: Archigos. Their political ideology developed into Archism. Archism is the belief that the traditional royal bloodline of Archigos was seen as most fit to rule. The Archists were also fully aware of the dangers of a weak government, and advocated the importance of preserving the state as a whole. Their main focus was to preserve the monarchy in some form, while modernizing the government to increase stability.

This view of Archism can be more generalized into being "a political belief in which stability of a state is sought to be enhanced by modernizing a government, while preserving important traditional values of the culture. A constant emphasis on the importance of maintaining a functioning independent governing body is evident in the policies enforced within an Archist system."

I did not just randomly do everything I did, I put deeper thought behind it all than that..

darkemporor
12-09-2004, 03:54 PM
Its a txt file I have in my Zormite Republic folder, "NAPZ.txt". I did not just randomly do everything I did, I put deeper thought behind it all than that..

This is all well and good. Thanks for sharing.

My point is - you can't hold your successors to a standard you havent even bothered to make known to the public. If you didn't share it openly as 'policy', its nothing more than 'deep thoughts' inside your head - of which no one else is aware.

Wren Sagesun Archigos
Eldekahn of the Zormite Republic

LilNiglet
12-10-2004, 04:21 AM
Edited by Wren: Please try to be less insulting.
I'm not insulting, I'm stating my opinion where it has relevance. Isn't that the rule? Post in the correct forum?

Anyways, yeah, this dictatoress chick is ruining RPing, if there was even any RPing in the first place. ugh. kingdoms is nothing like i'd thought it to be.

darkemporor
12-10-2004, 05:46 AM
....this dictatoress chick is ruining RPing, if there was even any RPing in the first place. ugh. kingdoms is nothing like i'd thought it to be.

What's this then? OH, sure. One person has so much influence on a game full of disinterested new players... while our forum teems with bitter, complaining oldbies who won't play anymore and seem only to linger here to despise those who still do.

Where's the history, the inspiration, the instruction, the experienced leadership, the hand at our backs? Oh yeah. Sitting right here, lifting a contemptuous finger only to point outwardly to blame someone else for failing to meet an expectation you couldn't acheive yourself.

If we failed, so did you.

Wren

LordZen
12-10-2004, 05:48 AM
I'm sorry, Wren, I cannot help it if you cannot remember the foundations apon which you told me you understood and would honor. All of that is nothing new, I have not changed my ideas of an Archist modeled zormite republic at any point after you gained control, nor did I long before I even knew you personally. I have repeated it over and over again, quoted from it over and over again, and I know for fact you understood what the Archist ideology meant when I first handed over dictatorship.

Hints that I already had foundations of the Archist ideology laid at the very time of creation are apparent in the wording of my post here (although not stated) I point out that the Archigos monarchy has been abolished and I already have the acronym NAPZ established.

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44488&highlight=napz

I quoted that whole txt file also in this thread (GoZelda was inquiring about how our Party system works):

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45383&highlight=napz

I posted this last one after you took power:

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52441&page=2&pp=15&highlight=napz

It was no secret, ever. x_x I know you were aware of it, I dont know why you are pretending you weren't. I used to show that whole text file to every zormite member joining into the party ranks as a rule of thumb because they needed to understand what it was they were agreeing to (it was a requirement in the old recruiting guidelines that one familiarizes themself with the constitution and the history of the NAPZ party before joining into it). The popularity of the party branch of ranks declined but I continued to, and did before the decline, show that txt file to anybody who was curious or if it came up in conversation.

darkemporor
12-10-2004, 06:01 AM
I know you were aware of it, I dont know why you are pretending you weren't.

Zen, all Im saying is I never read the document you quoted. You quoted it as if everyone had access to it. If it were doctrine, you should have given it to me. Even having read it, I dont see conflicts regarding the name of ranks.

The threads you reference are from 2003 and I could not have hoped to find them or even know they existed unless you pointed me directly to them, which you never did, alright?

The only document you pointed me to was the Constitution, which I have preserved in stickies since I began my rule. You never gave me recruiting guidelines at all. You were well off the game by then and the kingdom was being ruled by the religious ministry leader Chaokir.

Wren

LordZen
12-10-2004, 06:19 AM
The last link is May, 2004. :\

Anyways, I'm not saying that it was nessisary to read that document to understand what was going through my head. I'm just showing you that the same thing has been going through my head since the beginning, and my instructions to you prior to the transition of dictarship included those thoughts. You cannot honestly tell me that you did not know Archism was based around the Archigos royal family. Blah, I explained everything to you Wren. Regardless of how long ago it was, I am just re-asserting that you were made aware of it at one point in time, regardless of whether or not you recall it now.

And yea that txt file does not dictate a certain way the ranks should be, but I have explained my reasoning in this thread, and you are arguing the logic. You are arguing logic who's basis is that of an idea I created. How can you argue with me about my own idea?

It specifically talks about preserving traditional values, but at the same time modernizing the government and making it more efficient.

"The already established Zormite government makes a decision later on to change names of non-religious official government titles from that of the language which all zormite citizens speak and understand, into that of a language nobody uses and has to receive special instructions just to know what they mean." <--- That is not progress. That is not a positive step toward effeciency. Thats all I am saying.

...

I dont know how many other ways I have to say it.

I loved the military structure. Strategus, Duelist, Sentry, etc. There was no reason to change those. There was no reason to give an Immigrant a special title. Blah :frown:

darkemporor
12-10-2004, 06:32 AM
Oi, Zen. Im not arguing your philosophy or denying a knowledge of it. Read through again when you aren't so heated up. All Im defending is the rank name changes, that's it. Up until now I've done everything else in an effort to make you happy.

With every response you've misunderstood me more. I haven't said half of what you're suggesting I did. *last post*

Wren

Smutastic
12-10-2004, 07:38 AM
The whole discussion was pointless anyway.
It's awesome there's a way to learn RPing for guys who are new, the rank doesn't really matter since It's temporary (<- as Wren said). After they finished their workshop they're becoming Mikogen (<- as Wren said).
It's just easier to distinguish.

xAndrewx
12-10-2004, 10:03 AM
People just want to try and stir troubles. I tend to ignore them.

LilNiglet
12-11-2004, 02:17 AM
What's this then? OH, sure. One person has so much influence on a game full of disinterested new players... while our forum teems with bitter, complaining oldbies who won't play anymore and seem only to linger here to despise those who still do.

Where's the history, the inspiration, the instruction, the experienced leadership, the hand at our backs? Oh yeah. Sitting right here, lifting a contemptuous finger only to point outwardly to blame someone else for failing to meet an expectation you couldn't acheive yourself.

If we failed, so did you.

Wren

Hi I already told you, we tried desperately to fix this before you even came around, and failed miserably. And people were pretty mature back then, imagine if I tried to train these "LOL WUT U HAV FID???/ I GIEV 2 IWD AND 3 EA AND A FEW DIAZ WTF"

FenixTheBanished
12-11-2004, 06:06 AM
RP Student is a horrible rank, you shouldn't have to put something so obvious to remember what / who a rank is. "Student", would obviously infer one whom is to learn. Edited by Wren: Please try to be less insulting

Oh, and Wren, there's an option for signatures for a reason. Use it.

LordZen
12-11-2004, 08:23 AM
heh, funny how RP Student is practially the only rank that they think is deserving of an obvious distinction and meaning.

darkemporor
12-12-2004, 02:20 AM
Oh, and Wren, there's an option for signatures for a reason. Use it.

'Option' is just that.

I can or I dont have to, mkay. You missed my sig in the post prior to yours, I guess. ^^



heh, funny how RP Student is practially the only rank that they think is deserving of an obvious distinction and meaning.

You dont really know what 'we' think Zen. :\

And since you've started calling us 'they', Im finding I care less of what you think.

FenixTheBanished
12-12-2004, 02:29 AM
You dont really know what 'we' think Zen. :\

And since you've started calling us 'they', Im finding I care less of what you think.

What would you rather be called? The has-been, and Akira?

darkemporor
12-12-2004, 02:45 AM
What would you rather be called? The has-been, and Akira?

Ms. Wren, ma'am, to you. >.>

Or...

No wait! Your Highness . Yeah, I like that. :cool:

Zurkiba
12-12-2004, 02:51 AM
The new kingdom leaders fail to understand that roleplaying has it's own fragile ecosystem. If one small thing goes wrong then the overall roleplaying fails.

LordZen
12-12-2004, 08:24 AM
I realized you may make something of my using the word "they", but I figured you more likely to correctly assume I was just refering to yourself and the new Dictatress, not Zormite as a whole entity. Guess I figured wrong. *shrug*. No matter how you count it, I am not either of you, so I dont know how I could include myself in that reference lol, thus "they".

LilNiglet
12-12-2004, 07:08 PM
The new kingdom leaders fail to understand that roleplaying has it's own fragile ecosystem. If one small thing goes wrong then the overall roleplaying fails.
They're doomed to the same mistakes we made. :cool:

GoZelda
12-14-2004, 09:49 PM
'Option' is just that.
Oh okay, I'll keep that in mind.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Cyrin

there ish no spoone

MY SPECIAL ZORMITE FORUM SIGGY =D

Sig Edited by Wren: Please use images and text sizes that don't distort normal layout display of the thread

Zurkiba
12-14-2004, 10:51 PM
Sig Edited by Wren: Please use images and text sizes that don't distort normal layout display of the thread
Wow... You cant edit his message because of that. I mean go look at the graphics forums

Crono
12-14-2004, 10:52 PM
Zuri, they just want to use their powers a little. ;)

GoZelda
12-14-2004, 10:56 PM
Sig Edited by Wren: Please use images and text sizes that don't distort normal layout display of the thread
But Kamuii can? Tsk.

Sig
Bwahahaha.

----------------------------------------------------
http://www.icomm.ca/emily/pictures/cow.jpg
http://www.wirz.de/music/grafik/cow.jpg - for Crono <3
there ish no spoone
My special sig for teh zormite forums wtf leol l00k i even takl liek tehm xDDDDD

darkemporor
12-15-2004, 12:11 AM
Much nicer! Thanks. ^^

Now if you could only stay on topic. Apparently the original theme has been exhausted.