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Ziro_Vitrudestec
02-02-2004, 12:48 AM
I really think roleplaying administration is needed. Right now, it seems kings are the only "Administrators" of RPing as it is. And for the most part, RPing isn't even administrated. People NEVER RP while on RPing tags...no respect is shown for roleplaying what-so-ever.

Basically, an RP admin(s) would decide how much responsibility kings should have. If kings should make sure RPing is being done while on RP tags, the administrator will make sure kings are doing this. If kings refuse to follow the rules of the RP admin(s), they should be removed by the RP admin. One or two admins should really be enough for this job.

Valder
02-02-2004, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by Ziro_Vitrudestec
I really think roleplaying administration is needed. Right now, it seems kings are the only "Administrators" of RPing as it is. And for the most part, RPing isn't even administrated. People NEVER RP while on RPing tags...no respect is shown for roleplaying what-so-ever.

Basically, an RP admin(s) would decide how much responsibility kings should have. If kings should make sure RPing is being done while on RP tags, the administrator will make sure kings are doing this. If kings refuse to follow the rules of the RP admin(s), they should be removed by the RP admin. One or two admins should really be enough for this job.

I don't know if it'll work. People would most likely leave GK if they were FORCED to roleplay. If there were more roleplaying events instead of raffles and trivia, then maybe people would actually roleplay more.

Ziro_Vitrudestec
02-02-2004, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by Valder


I don't know if it'll work. People would most likely leave GK if they were FORCED to roleplay. If there were more roleplaying events instead of raffles and trivia, then maybe people would actually roleplay more.

Where the hell did I say RPing admins would "FORCE" people to roleplay? I said people in roleplaying groups SHOULD be roleplaying if they're wearing the name of that ROLEPLAYING group. People should NOT be allowed to join a roleplaying group and NOT roleplaying.

Honestly, GK is a role-playing game, so people SHOULD have to roleplay while playing, but that's not the point I'm trying to make in this thread. I'm referring to how RP groups should ALREADY be ROLEPLAYING but they're not. And RP admins should be around to fix things.

Please learn what the hell you're talking about before you put in your 2 cents.

Termina_Owner
02-02-2004, 03:20 AM
Well.. In my mind, the problem really is fixible... If the people would support more RPing, then there would be... If people actually had Roleplaying events, (Well, events such as wars aren't really roleplaying... How can famrers participate? By fighting massive elite trained samurai's with thier shovel?), maybe using mailboxes more would have a more wide "RP" effect:

Dear Grettal,
We'll be having a Punk'n & Rum festival near the entrance of the castle for my 5th year of leadership. We'll be having the most pleasent of the feasts, along with a couple Jester's to heighten your mood for your hardship you had on the farm. Alongside, if you could provide us with a couple of punkins for the festival, I'd be willing to buy you them at 10 platium coins each.

-- King Gloton


Such things would promote, and warn people about events. Festivals and Celebrations are a much more easily "RPed", seeing as people are not only showing thier bull-strength, but also the "characterist" properties a character has (Intellegence, Charisma, and Wisdom).

I had to spend about thirty minutes for someone to ask me 200 plat seeing my barbarian couldn't count (And stupider then that, he told me he was a wizard... Now, as a barbarian, I hate magic for the sheer reason I don't understand it, but I did as if I didn't hear it). Finally he managed to just say what I had in brackets (Using weight to tell how much money he wanted... T'was about 20 lbs of plat, I think... My barbarian gave him more or less the ammount).

As for Administators doing that? I don't know how they'd help. Least they could do is host Events, which can be done by the Event Team. The kings of the kingdoms must work together, and untill then, I don't know why Graal Online should get some people do support RolePlaying. The people are constantly showing that they'd rather go do 20 brutal maps then have a decent "RP" Community.

Ziro_Vitrudestec
02-02-2004, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by Termina_Owner
Well.. In my mind, the problem really is fixible... If the people would support more RPing, then there would be... If people actually had Roleplaying events, (Well, events such as wars aren't really roleplaying... How can famrers participate? By fighting massive elite trained samurai's with thier shovel?), maybe using mailboxes more would have a more wide "RP" effect:

Dear Grettal,
We'll be having a Punk'n & Rum festival near the entrance of the castle for my 5th year of leadership. We'll be having the most pleasent of the feasts, along with a couple Jester's to heighten your mood for your hardship you had on the farm. Alongside, if you could provide us with a couple of punkins for the festival, I'd be willing to buy you them at 10 platium coins each.

-- King Gloton


Such things would promote, and warn people about events. Festivals and Celebrations are a much more easily "RPed", seeing as people are not only showing thier bull-strength, but also the "characterist" properties a character has (Intellegence, Charisma, and Wisdom).

I had to spend about thirty minutes for someone to ask me 200 plat seeing my barbarian couldn't count (And stupider then that, he told me he was a wizard... Now, as a barbarian, I hate magic for the sheer reason I don't understand it, but I did as if I didn't hear it). Finally he managed to just say what I had in brackets (Using weight to tell how much money he wanted... T'was about 20 lbs of plat, I think... My barbarian gave him more or less the ammount).

As for Administators doing that? I don't know how they'd help. Least they could do is host Events, which can be done by the Event Team. The kings of the kingdoms must work together, and untill then, I don't know why Graal Online should get some people do support RolePlaying. The people are constantly showing that they'd rather go do 20 brutal maps then have a decent "RP" Community. ]


The truth is that this stuff is NOT going on. Roleplaying admins could make sure this stuff is going on. In addition, as for stuff that requires development, they could tell the staff what's needed and see their way through it that it be done. Also, you're giving just giving examples of BIG MOMENTS of RPing (events). In addition to this other things are important. A war can bring about plenty of minor RP moments. Let's say you're a newbie, RPing, exploring the world of GK. You come accross a secured Samurai town and there's a townguard on duty. He sees you and tells you to state your business. He'll be unpleased since you have no important business and will ask you to leave because they're in "times of war". But if you go to the Forest and they're currently being peacefull, they'll aide you for your long journey, feed you, heal you, share their wise knowledge with you, and set you on your way to the Zormites who should be just as or almost as wise and helpfull. Noone else in the game knows this is happening, but this newbie is having RPing fun...

As for war, EVERYONE can participate in war. Farmers are affected. Farmers have to harvest food. Food is very important. Let's say Dustari is having war against Zormite on Zormite's land. Dustari's farmers need to send food over to the foreign island to aide their soldiers. And let's say Samurai is allied with Zormite. Zormite's food-farms and supplies are being destroyed by Dustari so Samurai sends food to a "safe zone" (place that Dustari's soldiers have not reached yet...) on Zormite and keeps them running...

Or before a planned battle, you have a festivel to get the soldiers motivated and food is needed for that. Or you can even create a bigger-involved story from farmers. A Samurai farmer's crops are gone one day and the farmer wants the situation to be investigated. Word has it that Dustari people came by and stole all these crops. Samurai is upset, wants the debt repaid. Dustari won't repay, so a war begins. It turns out that the pirates really took the crops and had someone lie for them. While Samurai is setting a full-force attack to Dustari, pirates come through the other side of Samurai and get them while they're weak and make their crews wealthier.

Termina_Owner
02-02-2004, 03:44 AM
True. True.

HOWEVER... There isn't much of an RP spirit already... Sure, these are good ideas, however not enough people would actaully follow up with it. Farm-lands would be destroy... Well, Farm-Lands... Erm... Let's see... Corn grows in 2 minutes... Erm... Yea, I see how Pirates would be able to go overnight and still the crop that was planted 2 minutes ago, in which the farmer wouldn't see and launch a big war because of the missing corn.

As for Wars, it just won't work... Send one highly boosted AC player, and he can take down the whole kingdom (Talk about heros! Erm... The return of Rambo!). A good knight could kill about 5 soldiers before they kill him... In a war. Not a good knight kill the whole army. As for Gaurds, they can just be there, the newbie's still on peaceful mode, so he doesn't give a **** what the gaurd can do... Kingdom lands should be constantly on Battle Mode. Put it this way: The king comes in land, in peacemode, and goes and takes down the forts walls from the case. He just walks in, going straight to the treasure room, and summons monsters to do his filthy work. The trick is done, he gets the treasure, the gaurds whom specialized into melee attacks wouldn't get anything because the king is untouchible.

Grant you that that is a VERY poor example of Rolepaying, and that the king should be expelled by his kingdom. But **** like that happens, and no one's there to prevent it. I don't play GK anymore... I wanted to RP, but there was nothing much I can do: Last RP Event I played was Valder's Mine Hunt thing in the caves, and I couldn't do anything, reason being, I was a level 1 sorceror praying to brigid, and I wasn't allowed using any magic except Magic Bullet (In which the people there gladly blocked my missiles from even reaching). Sure, it would have been a decent RP Event if I was a level 12 Barbarian, but it so happens that I wasn't.

Erm... I'm done. It's a losing case regardless.

--Chris--
02-02-2004, 04:18 AM
GK does need RP Administration with a bit of rights such as warp player to moderate wars and such. They can also host their own RP events to increase kingdom relations and productivity or so. Their should be around 5 of them to form policies, be easily contacted at just about any time needed, etc. Personally I'd say people like myself, Ziro, Ghost Pirate, Zurkiba and Lance would do a good job.

Hm..other than RP administration I believe FAQ are also neccessary. It wouldn't take much either; just Lance or Jagen to create a local guild "(FAQ)" that doesn't even need to neccessarily go under the staff list nor do they even need many rights if any at all and hire a few trust worthy, experianced players such as DragonX and graaliholic.

graaliholic
02-02-2004, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by Termina_Owner
True. True.

HOWEVER... There isn't much of an RP spirit already... Sure, these are good ideas, however not enough people would actaully follow up with it. Farm-lands would be destroy... Well, Farm-Lands... Erm... Let's see... Corn grows in 2 minutes... Erm... Yea, I see how Pirates would be able to go overnight and still the crop that was planted 2 minutes ago, in which the farmer wouldn't see and launch a big war because of the missing corn.

As for Wars, it just won't work... Send one highly boosted AC player, and he can take down the whole kingdom (Talk about heros! Erm... The return of Rambo!). A good knight could kill about 5 soldiers before they kill him... In a war. Not a good knight kill the whole army. As for Gaurds, they can just be there, the newbie's still on peaceful mode, so he doesn't give a **** what the gaurd can do... Kingdom lands should be constantly on Battle Mode. Put it this way: The king comes in land, in peacemode, and goes and takes down the forts walls from the case. He just walks in, going straight to the treasure room, and summons monsters to do his filthy work. The trick is done, he gets the treasure, the gaurds whom specialized into melee attacks wouldn't get anything because the king is untouchible.

Grant you that that is a VERY poor example of Rolepaying, and that the king should be expelled by his kingdom. But **** like that happens, and no one's there to prevent it. I don't play GK anymore... I wanted to RP, but there was nothing much I can do: Last RP Event I played was Valder's Mine Hunt thing in the caves, and I couldn't do anything, reason being, I was a level 1 sorceror praying to brigid, and I wasn't allowed using any magic except Magic Bullet (In which the people there gladly blocked my missiles from even reaching). Sure, it would have been a decent RP Event if I was a level 12 Barbarian, but it so happens that I wasn't.

Erm... I'm done. It's a losing case regardless.

It's been mentioned before, but a special mode where everyone has the same stats, same speed, etc. and can't use any of their own equipment, and instead each kingdom has maybe 10 gold platemails, 20 silver, 25 silver warrior helms, 10 wands, etc. The king could choose who would get what equipment, and then everyone would be fair and equal. Some would have better equipment (being a higher rank in their kingdom), and equipment would have to be handed out in this way, because if every knight got gold plate, silver warrior, etc. then the kings would just set everyone to the same rank. Maybe a special RP admin (like chris was saying) would be able to choose when kingdoms would HAVE to go into this mode, and then when the battlefield is chosen, spells like earth to dust, restoration, create food, and the random seeds and shell bomies would be disabled, and then you would need some people to farm (supply food) and anyone who dies gets kicked off the mode and off the island (i forgot to mention, when the battle /whatever is going on, nobody can enter/exit the area unless they die) and then the battle would go on until one side loses/gives up... and yeah, it would work well that way.

Another thing is the farming. There is the *water* song that speeds up crops. Maybe that can speed it up to the way it is now, and without the song a crop could live forever, and when it was finally harvested it would have huge amounts of whatever... example someone "fast farms" a strawberry into 7 strawberries, or someone takes the longer way, waters it a few times an hour, and in, say, 5 hours they harvest it and get 500 strawberries. Bigger reward and less upkeep, but there is a chance someone could steal it, and would work well for RPing too.

Originally posted by --Chris--
GK does need RP Administration with a bit of rights such as warp player to moderate wars and such. They can also host their own RP events to increase kingdom relations and productivity or so. Their should be around 5 of them to form policies, be easily contacted at just about any time needed, etc. Personally I'd say people like myself, Ziro, Ghost Pirate, Zurkiba and Lance would do a good job.

Hm..other than RP administration I believe FAQ are also neccessary. It wouldn't take much either; just Lance or Jagen to create a local guild "(FAQ)" that doesn't even need to neccessarily go under the staff list nor do they even need many rights if any at all and hire a few trust worthy, experianced players such as DragonX and graaliholic.

About FAQ people: then atleast the newbies would know what to do, since they wouldn't have to ask a random person things like "how much stone do i need for my house?", and would get a response without someone insulting them. (though it's quite annoying when one asks "can you be my friend?" :\ )

Termina_Owner
02-02-2004, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by graaliholic


It's been mentioned before, but a special mode where everyone has the same stats, same speed, etc. and can't use any of their own equipment, and instead each kingdom has maybe 10 gold platemails, 20 silver, 25 silver warrior helms, 10 wands, etc. The king could choose who would get what equipment, and then everyone would be fair and equal. Some would have better equipment (being a higher rank in their kingdom), and equipment would have to be handed out in this way, because if every knight got gold plate, silver warrior, etc. then the kings would just set everyone to the same rank. Maybe a special RP admin (like chris was saying) would be able to choose when kingdoms would HAVE to go into this mode, and then when the battlefield is chosen, spells like earth to dust, restoration, create food, and the random seeds and shell bomies would be disabled, and then you would need some people to farm (supply food) and anyone who dies gets kicked off the mode and off the island (i forgot to mention, when the battle /whatever is going on, nobody can enter/exit the area unless they die) and then the battle would go on until one side loses/gives up... and yeah, it would work well that way.

Another thing is the farming. There is the *water* song that speeds up crops. Maybe that can speed it up to the way it is now, and without the song a crop could live forever, and when it was finally harvested it would have huge amounts of whatever... example someone "fast farms" a strawberry into 7 strawberries, or someone takes the longer way, waters it a few times an hour, and in, say, 5 hours they harvest it and get 500 strawberries. Bigger reward and less upkeep, but there is a chance someone could steal it, and would work well for RPing too.


The idea for the farming would work fine... As for Admins, I don't think they are neccessary (sp?) -> Not until people actually TRY to have some good RPing... The average player on GK doesn't roleplay, and untill they decide otherwise, I think that there shouldn't be such a strong division to manupilate RP.

Some way that could work would have RP Admins have a pretty powerful powers in the start, but gradually back off from Graal's RP once it gets started. In that sense, I wouldn't mind RP Admins.

graaliholic
02-02-2004, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by Termina_Owner


The idea for the farming would work fine... As for Admins, I don't think they are neccessary (sp?) -> Not until people actually TRY to have some good RPing... The average player on GK doesn't roleplay, and untill they decide otherwise, I think that there shouldn't be such a strong division to manupilate RP.

Some way that could work would have RP Admins have a pretty powerful powers in the start, but gradually back off from Graal's RP once it gets started. In that sense, I wouldn't mind RP Admins.

I was thinking the RP admin would kinda be like the event master, they set up an RP sometime in the future, and tell the leaders of two or more kingdoms to try to get as many of their members on at that time, and then do whatever the event would be (of course it would have to use the system I mentioned, or it would never work). The "winners" could get, like more armour, improvements on armour, better weapons, etc... ( or what I just thought of, plat for the treasury, which wouldn't work off of the market stands, and the plat would go towards buying more equipment off an RP admin...) maybe even part of the other kingdom's treasury would go to the winners. Just my thought though.

Ziro_Vitrudestec
02-02-2004, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Termina_Owner


Some way that could work would have RP Admins have a pretty powerful powers in the start, but gradually back off from Graal's RP once it gets started. In that sense, I wouldn't mind RP Admins.

Yes, ideally it would be that RP admins have to do lots of big things/changes in the beginning, but eventually, they would let things take their course and just make sure everything is going well.

Originally posted by --Chris--

GK does need RP Administration with a bit of rights such as warp player to moderate wars and such. They can also host their own RP events to increase kingdom relations and productivity or so. Their should be around 5 of them to form policies, be easily contacted at just about any time needed, etc. Personally I'd say people like myself, Ziro, Ghost Pirate, Zurkiba and Lance would do a good job.

Hm..other than RP administration I believe FAQ are also neccessary. It wouldn't take much either; just Lance or Jagen to create a local guild "(FAQ)" that doesn't even need to neccessarily go under the staff list nor do they even need many rights if any at all and hire a few trust worthy, experianced players such as DragonX and graaliholic.

That is indeed a nice list of people who could do well as RP admins. It probably should be a team with an ODD number of people so that they can also vote upon certain things.

As for FAQ's, I think that's getting a little more specific. Maybe there can be 2 groups of staff teams- those who are involved with the RPing/stories of the game and those who are involved more with the game mechanics instead. That would basically be what you said FAQ is and what I suggested, in another thread, someone like DragonX should be (a person with the perspective as a player, being able to understand player's problems more and help them better...). That's really what GK needs: game administrators as well as balancing. The balancing is the more important issue, administration could be a step to improvment.

Originally posted by Termina_Owner

As for Wars, it just won't work... Send one highly boosted AC player, and he can take down the whole kingdom (Talk about heros! Erm... The return of Rambo!). A good knight could kill about 5 soldiers before they kill him... In a war. Not a good knight kill the whole army. As for Gaurds, they can just be there, the newbie's still on peaceful mode, so he doesn't give a **** what the gaurd can do... Kingdom lands should be constantly on Battle Mode. Put it this way: The king comes in land, in peacemode, and goes and takes down the forts walls from the case. He just walks in, going straight to the treasure room, and summons monsters to do his filthy work. The trick is done, he gets the treasure, the gaurds whom specialized into melee attacks wouldn't get anything because the king is untouchible.

Grant you that that is a VERY poor example of Rolepaying, and that the king should be expelled by his kingdom. But **** like that happens, and no one's there to prevent it. I don't play GK anymore... I wanted to RP, but there was nothing much I can do: Last RP Event I played was Valder's Mine Hunt thing in the caves, and I couldn't do anything, reason being, I was a level 1 sorceror praying to brigid, and I wasn't allowed using any magic except Magic Bullet (In which the people there gladly blocked my missiles from even reaching). Sure, it would have been a decent RP Event if I was a level 12 Barbarian, but it so happens that I wasn't.


What you and graaliholic were talking about deals more with game mechanics. If game mechanics cause problems for RPing, whatever administration is in charge (right now...the closest thing is kings) should work around these things. A war's battles should not be determined on levels/stats/items. So for now, the best battle I could see possible is for kings to decide on a winner for each battle before it happens. The winner of the war could be decided before the whole war (something that should take at least a month ideally...one time I drew out an ideal minor-war plan which involves several events taking place over the course of 1 or 2 months....i think it was 1 event per week), but that's if each king is too weak/immature to come to terms/agreements on their own at the right time. THOSE kind of people take RPing too seriously (can't handle "losing") or just usually can't RP well and want to "win" everything.

Valder
02-02-2004, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by Ziro_Vitrudestec


Where the hell did I say RPing admins would "FORCE" people to roleplay? I said people in roleplaying groups SHOULD be roleplaying if they're wearing the name of that ROLEPLAYING group. People should NOT be allowed to join a roleplaying group and NOT roleplaying.

Honestly, GK is a role-playing game, so people SHOULD have to roleplay while playing, but that's not the point I'm trying to make in this thread. I'm referring to how RP groups should ALREADY be ROLEPLAYING but they're not. And RP admins should be around to fix things.

Please learn what the hell you're talking about before you put in your 2 cents.

That was uncalled for. I never stated anything against you and you don't have any right to flame me. GK may be a roleplaying server, but that doesn't mean everyone will roleplay. Most people on GK can roleplay, but choose not to for some unknown reason. If items weren't so important and the EXP system didn't suck, then maybe people would roleplay more.

Termina_Owner
02-02-2004, 08:38 AM
... The point is, the people on GK are too immature to actually handle "losing", or even think of "RP" circumstances.

As for Game Mechanics, they play a great role in the game. You once said to me that the game itself is what is actually happening, in which we didn't need to use PMs IC, seeing all the actions we do in game is actually what our character is doing: Thus saying, if a person has a speed of 6.3 and is royally going accross the whole world, then that is into consideration that he took 4 seconds to cross main. Likewise, if the game mechanics permitted such a speed, then therefore they presume that the character in person has the ability to do such things as a RP Character. => If a character has +10 on all his items, and 26 IWDs on his sword, then I presume that his character has the capibility of using such items, seeing as the character using items which boasted his speed to 6.3 is IC.

If the Game Mechanics wasn't set to such an absurd quantity, then our in game characters wouldn't be so much of supernatural beings. There is nothing anyone can do, atlast. Seeing too much people would complain, Graal Online couldn't afford a readjestment of the server, and seeing players AREN'T willing to give up there overpowered equipement, then you are in a deadlock.

The ONLY way out, as I see it, would be creating a twin sister in which the people who WANT to roleplay goes there... However this would require a lot more effert: They'd have to fix the ways in which players abuse... I see the most liable way to fix it in a shot would be removing any "enchantments", except the prayers for weapons, in which they'd be given higher expectencies. Saying such, there wouldn't be SUCH a big differance between a Mitheral Armor, and a Golden Armor.

To start with, there would have to be a limit to RARE armor... Maybe have it so that each kingdom would have a mitheral (5 in total), in which the King would usually wear. The other armor's building rates would be highered, making it harder to build a certain type of armor, and making it so that there would actually be a differance between a silver warrior armor, and a gold armor.

Erm... As you see... Most of the problems are Mechanic...
Graal Fixes = Players Will + Fixes to Current System

Without one another, you are doomed to go back in stone age.

-- I am tired. I may have stumbled upon myself a few times, but I think my general message is passed.

RP Admins can only increase the Player's Will, they can't do much about Mechanical problems. As for equipement, if a kingdom has more smiths then others, then they should have more...

Damn man... I've been ratting myself too much! :) I could easily intergrate all this into my server! I'm excited... Erm! Erm!... I got to go! CIAO!!!!

Erm... Right... ENJOY!

Borgie
02-02-2004, 01:51 PM
im not going to post a 5 meters answer cuz no one would really read it...

graal is a game and being forced to roleplaying would made it less attractive...
rolplaying = good
forcing = bad

just my general oppinion

Satrek2000
02-02-2004, 01:56 PM
About the FAQs, I like the idea, and maybe it can even be combined - they could answer in a rp-ish fashion, and encourage placers - specially new ones - to engage in rp-conversations.

narkotic
02-02-2004, 04:21 PM
My vote is no.

This is a glorified events master. Instead of creating so many wasted positions, you should focus on that group instead. What have they been doing lately? The things that you're suggesting, they should have some influence. A separate group isn't needed. A separate group JUST to make a FAQ isn't needed either.

To be honest, take it a step further from a FAQ. Create a game manual for new players that includes screen shots and diagrams. This game has a few instructions on the website and it sets the players loose on the game. The island that they land on doesn't tell them much. It has a little scene about pirates (probably the only scripted IC moment I've seen thus far) and then sets you loose. You get one main quest in the mainland and after that it's done.

I think as players we must also recognize that others have different views on what roleplaying is. The fact that we run around with our avatars is in fact the basic form of roleplaying. I haven't seen any real indication on what requirements there are in roleplaying on kingdoms from staff members. All I've seen are the opinions of players who are involved in the community.

I agree that kingdom leaders should be responsible for the quality of roleplaying and enforcement of commonly agreed rp guidelines. Where are these guidelines different? It'd be nice if these leaders met, discussed roleplaying, and decided on a common set of rules to be used.

Also, why is it that Kingdom leaders have to do everything with roleplay? It's not only their responsibility, it's every other player's as well. Although I'm a little disappointed that the self-proclaimed 'best roleplayers of kingdoms' GaNgStAs decided that the little event they would start up would be an irrational war with KJ.

I think every single one of you is lucky. There is a chance that you can become giants among men. In most roleplaying games, the leaders of organizations have already been decided. They are either NPC's, or they are PC's run by staff members. The fact that a new player could someday become the leader of their associated kingdom is an interesting twist, but one that has brought many problems. There's of course frustration and perhaps a tad bit of resentment towards others when they feel someone unworthy has attained a position of leadership. Then we see some who have not kept their word on fullfilling their duties.

Kingdoms is at an interesting point. Roleplaying is pretty much non-existant these days. I don't believe that a council or staff positions is needed for this. Although, the support, encouragement, and participation of the current staff would be a breath of fresh air. Roleplaying in Kingdoms is obviously a concern by good portion of the playerbase. It'd be great if we saw a bit more concern from that party over some of these issues :-/

tc_topcat
02-02-2004, 06:42 PM
I think that somebody not enfocing but giving RP traininng so to speak would be helpful, and that within this group the newbies get tested and watched for a short while to see their abilities and also have a few outsiders watching on them to show they do RP while away from the "group", if they pass, they should be accepted to their chosen kindgdom,as i have seen many kingdom members giving excellent answers to get in kingdoms but as soon as a person of authority is not around, its back to l33t or normal talk.

Like it was said before Chris and Lance would be good at this as they have both sucessfully led a kingdom, i dont think ziro would be good at it...his constant abuse and snide remark woudl be enough to boost any newbies spirts to RP :rolleyes:

GoZelda
02-02-2004, 06:47 PM
A referee during war :\

Monkeyboy_McGee
02-02-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Ziro_Vitrudestec
I really think roleplaying administration is needed. Right now, it seems kings are the only "Administrators" of RPing as it is. And for the most part, RPing isn't even administrated. People NEVER RP while on RPing tags...no respect is shown for roleplaying what-so-ever.
Please learn what the hell you're talking about before you put in your 2 cents.

Wtf...why the hell don't -you- learn what the hell you're talking about? You're speaking as if you are the only person on kingdoms who has ever roleplayed in the past, EVER. Your ignorance in this matter is just disgusting, sereously. I dunno where the heck you get the idea that nobody ever roleplays on GK, and i wish this idea didn't exist at all. People DO roleplay on kingdoms; just because you aren't around to see it, mr god-of-RP, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Sure, there are some people who wear the tag but never RP, but there are -plenty- of people who, when they encounter another IC person, roleplay with them. I think you know this fact already...are you just denying it to make yourself seem a more superior roleplayer than everyone else, or something? >=/


Originally posted by Termina_Owner
Stuff about wars...

Heh, this guy knows what he's talking about when it comes to wars. While i do agree we should have an RP admin, and that he should be there to regulate wars, he doesn't stand a chance in hell of doing his job until a decent, scripted War system is sorted out =x
People seem to do a hell of a lot of work on things like items and more ways of people levelling up (maps and stuff) but i don't see anyone working on things to enrich roleplaying. I'd try to do something, but when it comes to GK development i would be teh crappo plus i don't know how to do it anyway :(


Originally posted by Valder
Most people on GK can roleplay, but choose not to for some unknown reason. If items weren't so important and the EXP system didn't suck, then maybe people would roleplay more.
Yah, like i said above, lots of emphasis is being put on items and stuff (examples, the new years items, the event island, eventcoin shop, stacked brutals =x) but nothing being done to improve the roleplay situation (apart from player efforts that is).


Originally posted by narkotic

I agree that kingdom leaders should be responsible for the quality of roleplaying and enforcement of commonly agreed rp guidelines. Where are these guidelines different? It'd be nice if these leaders met, discussed roleplaying, and decided on a common set of rules to be used.
I like this idea, but i woulda thought it would have been done long ago :confused: . Some sort of council leading to a mutual agreement would help things hugely O_O



I think that we should have at least one or two Roleplay Admins. Not for the same reasons as Ziro ("noone ever ever rps, blah blah") though.
A roleplay admin would be a great help. If set up properly, he could be a relay between the game developers and the kingdoms [leaders]; he could tell them what the kingdoms need and ask if it is possible, or if it will/is being done.
Also, the RP admin would be able to take some stress off the kingdom leaders. There is immense pressure on the leaders to keep their kingdom in check - monitor their members, helping the newer ones, dealing with a barrage of PMs asking "can i join plz i wat 2 b dusatiri :(", etc etc etc. The Admin could help to regulate and monitor the kingdom's members (perhaps either advise a misbehaving member, or alert the kingdom leader, or deal with the member directly).
An RP admin could also help in kingdom events, such as wars (if a decent war system ever comes about), or if the admin has warp rights, he/she could warp away misbehaving people such as non-kingdom players and even deal with misbehaving players in the kingdom.

I vote yes :D

Satrek2000
02-02-2004, 07:34 PM
While I think some kind of system for wars is required, I'm inclined to vote no on the topic.

"RPing is going down"
"We could rp more
"Let's blame the RP-admin, after all, it's his job"
"Great idea! Let's shout corruption on the way, it's more fun than roleplaying anyway."

I can become an excuse for not rping rather than one to rp.

Besides, it would already improve things if kingdom leaders would talk to each other and invent some kind of diplomacy - and if people would learn to seperate ic from ooc, so that (for example) Dustari hating the Pirates doesn't result in senseless loathing and pking.

Monkeyboy_McGee
02-02-2004, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Satrek2000

"RPing is going down"
"We could rp more
"Let's blame the RP-admin, after all, it's his job"
"Great idea! Let's shout corruption on the way, it's more fun than roleplaying anyway."

Replace RP-admin with Kingdom Leader there, and you've got what ziro thinks :(

Satrek2000
02-02-2004, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee
Replace RP-admin with Kingdom Leader there, and you've got what ziro thinks :(

Let's boil it down - most players go with Homer Simpson in saying "Rping? Can't someone else do it?" :rolleyes:
Derive from there "If XY doesn't, then why should I?" and so on...

narkotic
02-02-2004, 07:59 PM
I agree with you Satrek.

It's not only that, though. Let's take a look at the playerbase. There are a LOT of young people playing Graal Kingdoms. These kids pop on to have fun, whether that be to kill monsters, talk with friends, annoy other people, whatever. Their purpose is to enjoy the game while they are logged in.

A lot of the talk about RPing is over demands. Everyone MUST roleplay. RPing is all that's important. Have we forgotten that RP is but a tool to have fun?

I think these players believe that RPing is a chore. If they do something that a more experienced roleplayer might comment or scold them for, they become discouraged and give up. This creates a negative attitude and a resistance to adopting a more roleplay encouraged environment.

Roleplaying isn't hard at all. It takes LITTLE to no effort. You also have to consider, though, that this is a game for younger people. Not everyone knows how to type real well. I learned the home-row keyboard layout early on, and have become quite adept at sprawling out anything that's on my mind. Someone who isn't quite as adept with the keyboard, however, would have a problem typing out their roleplay messages. This also frustrates them. Also, the chat interface for the game isn't the best for a roleplaying environment.

All I can say is, there's a lot of ignorance all around. The only way you're going to get any change is to start educating people and leading by example. Creating rules and unneeded enforcement of said rules is only going to produce angst and rebelion from players. Don't tell me that their opinions shouldn't matter on the subject, however, since they also pay to play this game.

You can't just strong-arm someone into doing what you want. The best way is to communicate with them, find out what they feel the problems are, and address them. Of course, a couple of them have been mentioned: imbalances in classes and equipment, impractical war system.

I just hope what I am trying to do has some impact. You can basicly make up any story you want for your character or the group you're involved with. What type of real, rich story or history is there with Graal Kingdoms? Oh, the times of Graal 2001 and 2000, etc. Other than the settings that have been created, I don't see much else going on, though.

Satrek2000
02-02-2004, 08:16 PM
I agree that there's a lot of ignorance arround, and many don't know how to rp properly - or don't find themselves in a position to.

A RP-Admin can't help that though, it rather takes some kind of group effort. Besides, with rping being rather a tool, I think it would be better to incorporate it into something else than to make it the sole purpose of such a staff position. Having FAQs who encourage players to rp, give advice in that respect and such, would be more helpful I believe.

narkotic
02-02-2004, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by narkotic
This is a glorified events master. Instead of creating so many wasted positions, you should focus on that group instead. What have they been doing lately?

Heh, that's why I mentioned that in the first paragraph of my post.

The Event Masters seem to be the current positions that meet the description that Ziro presents. The only issue is that they are not fullfilling those duties. Instead we are seeing events that are raffles and trivia, which were part of his complaints.

There were some RP events starting up, but from that point there hasn't been much else. Is there a reason for this? Have you guys become disinterested in your positions or trying to bring more RP influence into the GK events?

--Chris--
02-02-2004, 10:02 PM
*Breezes through responses*

FAQ answering in a rp-ish fashion = wrong Satrek. Graal's rping isn't taken to that extreme nor should it be (especially when it comes to a job like FAQ where people expect straight forward answers and where PMs are automatically OOC and such.)

To Narkotic: Justin Yashimata/graaliholic and myself actually plan on writing one, it would be really huge though (there's so much about this game you people don't know unless you messed with CF for ages :x) FAQ are neccessary considering not even half the GK playerbase uses the forums and sometimes people just want to know the answer to some little specific thing immediately, sometimes things require to be demonstrated. Almost all servers have walkthroughs and such on websites, stickied on forums and whatnot but still FAQ are required (far less a server with as much flexibility as GK.)

To everyone else speaking of balance and such: I actually plan on making quite a decent fix suggestion for just about _everything_ on GK, so far everyone that has heard has liked 'em. Stefan told me on debug he'd acknowledge the thread when it's complete but it'd require the co-operation of quite a few debug staff such as Jagen. It can actually be done in one well planned weekend :x

My God...polls annoy me. Why don't they show the accounts that voted and what? No-one has identified themself as a voter nor put their reasoning except Narkotic and Ziro. Obviously you can tell what certain people voted (I put yes =p) but it would be a nice feature/option :x

Satrek2000
02-03-2004, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by --Chris--
FAQ answering in a rp-ish fashion = wrong Satrek.

I'm not saying that they'd force people to rp. I just think it would be a nice position from where to spread at least proper grammar and a lack of r, u and such. It can go in the right direction, I'd say ;)
As for the fixes you're working on, whenever you need someone to praise them... I don't know, all I would do would be to give an opinion ;)

Monkeyboy_McGee
02-03-2004, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by --Chris--
No-one has identified themself as a voter nor put their reasoning except Narkotic and Ziro.

I identified myself w/reasons :p maybe you skimmed through too quick ;)

Ziro_Vitrudestec
02-03-2004, 01:56 AM
Many of you are missing the point. As I said to Valder in a frusterated manner (for him voting though he was interpretting the poll question as a DIFFERENT question...meaning he was voting for the wrong thing x.x), I'm not suggesting (in this thread at least) that we make all players RP by means of RP Admins. I said that RP Admins would regulated KINGDOMS. I also did NOT say EVERYONE does NOT RP. However, as for those who said many people do RP...this is true and I acknowledge it, but this MANY are not MOST of the population of GK. For the MOST PART, people are basically crapping upon RPing. RP admins would make sure kingdoms are used only for RPing. If RPers can't trust kingdoms to be the right place for RPing, where the heck do you expect them to go for RPing? Creating a new RP group is a wasted effort as none have ever worked out and if they did SEEM successfull by getting their own island and such they were actually not RPing to begin with and just left a scar on GK's world. So you want to know where to go if you want to RP? ANOTHER GAME. That's exactly where you go. Or hey....Valikarlia doesn't charge yearly. Though GK was supposed to be the gold RP server like Val was an RP server, we might as well go to Val if that's the only place to RP and stop spending money yearly on Graal. Is that what the staff wants? I'd hope not. This is probably why Graal 2001 (or at least something like it where it's more accepted to NEVER RP) AND Graal Kingdoms should both be gold servers. One could be the major-RP server for roleplayers, the other could be the non or only minor-RPing server. This way, RPers and you complaining non-RPers who want to join kingdoms and NEVER RP will still be paying yearly to support this game. However, hopefully the people who want to join a kingdom and NEVER RP won't get their way. That's really what I'm adressing; people who wear a kingdom tag and do NOT RP. An example is Samurai members being seen on tag adressing (with IC text...anything not in parenthesis while using an RP name is IC text no matter what a kingdom's rules say, it's just common RP knowledge) their leader who is off tag as...well, their leader.

Termina_Owner
02-03-2004, 01:58 AM
I voted no.

For one, Roleplaying is a tool, as of now, in which not many people use.
For two, not enough players are willing to give up some time to do some roleplaying, so I don't see why would "want" turn into "need".
For three, the server needs a lot more fixes in order to get a liable RP Structure
For Four, current kings/staff should be already doing what "RP Admins" would be doing.
For Five, there are too much immature kids that can't imagion themself being in a stupid barbarian, or even less be smart enough to immitate a very intellegent wizard.

I DO want someone to do something about RPing, HOWEVER, I will not profit myself if it would only profit me. If 70% or more wants to roleplay, then I guess the manager of G2K2 would do something to encourage the great majority of the people.

I'm out.

Monkeyboy_McGee
02-03-2004, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by Termina_Owner

I DO want someone to do something about RPing, HOWEVER, I will not profit myself if it would only profit me. If 70% or more wants to roleplay, then I guess the manager of G2K2 would do something to encourage the great majority of the people.

Not sure if i'm interpreting right, but....you're saying that the staff will only start encouraging more rp if more people want to roleplay...but since most people want to "pwn" the staff encourage that instead?

:(
I remember when GK first came out, including/after the christmas preview. like, back then 99% of the 2k2 population had come from 2k1, which meant around 60-70% of the people were from kingdoms. Then i stopped playing. I really don't know how the hell the ratio of RPers to non-RPers shifted so much, but i wish it hadn't. Now, only a small % of the population are RPers and most are new people trying to figure out what to do, or "pwners" =/
How did the change occur?

Termina_Owner
02-03-2004, 03:01 AM
Yea.. You interpreted that right: Stefan's gift for christmas was giving away items... ITEMS... Can I reapeat? ITEMS!!!... Now, why would that happen? Why didn't he make a super-awesome-memorible event?... Other then lack of time, and him being on vacation, I see it that there isn't much players would participate. Why work for the minority?

I started playing the the economy was broken. I am helpless there. As for newcomers, all they see is ownage. I haven't been on Battle Mode once mainly because I know that I wouldn't be able to either hit, or even scare the person. I'd wish to go Battle Mode for the sole purpose that when someone goes on my ship, I can go into an arguement with then, and maybe even kill them in honor of my ship, but alas, it's hopeless.

Valder
02-04-2004, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by Ziro_Vitrudestec
Many of you are missing the point. As I said to Valder in a frusterated manner (for him voting though he was interpretting the poll question as a DIFFERENT question...meaning he was voting for the wrong thing x.x

Umm... I never voted...

Nidonemo
02-27-2004, 11:50 PM
I don't think we need an RP Admin, I mean, that's the leader's of the Kingdoms job. An RP Admin would kinda be like an appendix on the body of GK, you don't really need it and it only will be removed once it becomes corrupt. :P Now don't take this the wrong way, it's just GK is kinda like a half and half sorta server. Not like Val. where this idea is already set in motion.

Damix2
02-27-2004, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee


Not sure if i'm interpreting right, but....you're saying that the staff will only start encouraging more rp if more people want to roleplay...but since most people want to "pwn" the staff encourage that instead?

:(
I remember when GK first came out, including/after the christmas preview. like, back then 99% of the 2k2 population had come from 2k1, which meant around 60-70% of the people were from kingdoms. Then i stopped playing. I really don't know how the hell the ratio of RPers to non-RPers shifted so much, but i wish it hadn't. Now, only a small % of the population are RPers and most are new people trying to figure out what to do, or "pwners" =/
How did the change occur?

Are you joking me, 60-70% of 2k1 did not roleplay, hell if more people on 2k1 roleplayed then on kingdoms I'd be suprised

Monkeyboy_McGee
02-28-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Nidonemo
An RP Admin would kinda be like an appendix on the body of GK, you don't really need it and it only will be removed once it becomes corrupt. :P

Kinda like alch items and stuff...but they won't be removed :P

Originally posted by Damix2


Are you joking me, 60-70% of 2k1 did not roleplay, hell if more people on 2k1 roleplayed then on kingdoms I'd be suprised

Dunno, i'd say that on a good day around 50-60% -did- roleplay on 2k1 :\
Or at least wore the kingdom tags and participated in the kingdom stuffness o_O

XiLe
02-28-2004, 08:15 PM
I think we should have RP Admins... it wouldn't be a really strict thing, but having RP admins and then eventually adding more RP-inclined things to the server would probably bring up a bit more role playing among the players... you wouldn't get in trouble for not RPing, and the RP Admins wouldnt either, but it'd just be making players thing more about RPing... go ahead and yell at me if you want but that's my opinion.

WanDaMan
02-28-2004, 09:48 PM
I don't think so, graal kingdoms isn't all about RPing...
If you want to RP join a friggen kingdom, I.E KJ.
I guess you could have one for the kingdoms to set up kingdom wars and stuff that'll be leet.:)
Depends....

Damix2
02-29-2004, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee


Kinda like alch items and stuff...but they won't be removed :P



Dunno, i'd say that on a good day around 50-60% -did- roleplay on 2k1 :\
Or at least wore the kingdom tags and participated in the kingdom stuffness o_O

That sir is bull****, you might have a few on tag, but not a person roleplayed, most of the kingdoms didn't even have RP tests to join.

Desolator12
02-29-2004, 07:07 PM
the way I see it, if people were forced to RP... people would just start to Power RP more...

example: *ki11z j00 wit ubar swurd fo duum!!!*

RPing is an art... some people just don't like to do it... some people have no idea what that means... some people don't give a rat's ass and "pwn j00 wit ubar swurd fo duum!!!"

sure, killing monsters, getting money, and getting items is nice... but this MMORPG has turned into a MMOK(ill)F(est)

my two cents... we should promote RPing, but if they don't want to, they don't have to... and there's no way whatsoever we can make them want to... unles we gave them 200 dias, and even then, they would take and run away with them...

Ziro_Vitrudestec
02-29-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Desolator12
the way I see it, if people were forced to RP... people would just start to Power RP more...

example: *ki11z j00 wit ubar swurd fo duum!!!*

RPing is an art... some people just don't like to do it... some people have no idea what that means... some people don't give a rat's ass and "pwn j00 wit ubar swurd fo duum!!!"

sure, killing monsters, getting money, and getting items is nice... but this MMORPG has turned into a MMOK(ill)F(est)

my two cents... we should promote RPing, but if they don't want to, they don't have to... and there's no way whatsoever we can make them want to... unles we gave them 200 dias, and even then, they would take and run away with them...

Well, at least kingdoms should be reserved for RPing. RP Admins should see to that.

KyJe27
02-29-2004, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Ziro_Vitrudestec
Well, at least kingdoms should be reserved for RPing. RP Admins should see to that.

If this is what the Rp Admins would do and only do... I support 100%. What I would really like to know from people who do not Role Play is why they don't... Do they think it is stupid and a waste of time to think up a educated RP response? Are they just too un-intelligent to come up with a reasonable respons of their own? All I know is that some of the most enjoyable moments comes from Rping...

-=Example of a Rp event=-
For example you have just won a Warhammer of Sorcery for defeating the Coven Dwarf of Milthandurm in the Cave's of Milthandurm... Dosn't the memories of Rping with other people trying to find this Dwarf running through the cave's of Milthandurm(Which would be a randomly generated cave on the Event Island...) just seem a lot more enjoyable than just a event almost identical to the one listed above with no story.

I don't even need to list why Role-Playing should be "forced" in Kingdoms (Hell I do not even have to use the word "forced"... Role-Playing is already expected in Kingdoms... Leaders have failed to enforce Rp.)

people who just stick their toung out at the meer idea of haveing to say something like "Good knight! Do you happen to know the path I should take that would lead me to the fair town of Bogerna?" Just give it a try... it is acctually more enjoyable than saying half wited sentances like "**** it's to the north dawg!"

I vote yes and you should to.

I mean there is always the means of not Rping while off tag... Or do you only want to not Rp while on tag and totaly F the system. x.x

MysticHaste
03-03-2004, 08:53 AM
Enforced RP on Tag, and no Interupting On Tag RP-ers.

Is what I support.

Not off tag.

KyJe27
03-11-2004, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by MysticHaste
Enforced RP on Tag, and no Interupting On Tag RP-ers.

Exactly... Graal in general is a MMORPG. That means it's a massive mulitiplayer online ROLE PLAYING GAME.

Now people have totaly dejected Rping on normals Graal servers which is sad but okay... But people pay to play on Kingdoms. Kingdoms is based in Role-Playing, It even has a nice background story to it; if any of you read it on Graal's main website you know what I am talking about.

I realize that people are busy, stubborn, bored, too young to understand or play by the "rules", or even too hyper active "ADHD" to control themseleves (Monkey_Boy for example).

That is why people off tag and or not in a kingdom should not be forced to Rp... but they should at least give it a try. All people in a Kingdom on the other hand should be "forced" to follow set and monitered Rping rules. We are not ****'s trying to enforce radical ideals and or morals on people. This game and this server in particular was made for Role Playing. The more you continue to to ignore the rules the less "rich" and enjoyable the game becomes as a whole. Right now I would classify Kingdoms as a "MMOG" Massive Mulitiplayer Online Game.

Now for the people who argue that there should not be Role-Playing enforced for solely Kingdom members on "Graal: Kingdoms" through weather it be by the Kingdom leader him/herself or through a Rp Moderator. Why are you even playing Graal? Why did you even shell out the money for a subscription? It makes no sense whatsoever, you play a role-playing game to not roleplay.

Chris should be the Rping Moderator and he should be able to choose a couple worthy people to help him out with it. Kingdoms is just going to revolve around item/power players and not on the highly potential role-playing attributes it posses. Please we need a Mod now... right now.:(