PDA

View Full Version : Kingdom Amnesia


MasterNuke
01-13-2004, 05:41 AM
void rant() {
Ok... I think I know why the RPish kingdoms became so dull... starting with Dustari.

Dustari is dull because they're not striving to gain more power by taking over other nations. (Loss of Power Hunger)

Zormite is dull because they're not striving to gain more power by taking over other nations. (Loss of desire for amphibious assimilation)

Pirates is dull because they don't do anything a pirate does at all! (Loss of pirateness)

Forest is dull because they seem to no longer care about nature/war/domination. (loss of Nature's Justice/whatever fantasy race'ish warfare/domination of non-Forest people)

Samurai is dull because they don't care about their culture being diminished. (Loss of Samurai Spirit)

}

Edit: Stay tuned for more ideas

Satrek2000
01-13-2004, 09:43 AM
I would like to see some struggles and wars, and believe they would be fun, but two things are needed to make them so:

1. a war system to prevent respawns and schedule battles.
2. players have to get ic and ooc sorted - I could, in theory, run up to Wren and shave her pet (sorry Twusk ;) ), causing a diplomatic incident which will lead to a cold war between Zormite and Dustari, and still be friends with her ooc. Also, wars have to be talked through, even surprise attacks should be made known - we have time zones to deal with, so wars should last longer than an hour, and people will want to fit their online-time to a potential crisis.

I hope you get what I mean.

narkotic
01-13-2004, 02:48 PM
1. There's more that can be involved than just wars.

2. Acts such as that would be out of character, and also be considered the action of a single party. In such a situation, you'd be booted out of your kingdom for attempting to bring ruin to the diplomacy shared between the two countries.

I think MasterNuke's rant is valid. He is ranting about the very character of the Kingdom's themselves. They are no longer roleplayed to their original roots. Would the Dustari or Zormites of the past consider an alliance together, or even with the Samurai whose honor they hold most dear? Would the pirates segregate themselves in a corner and forget the rest of the world exists? Would Forest stand for the modernization that the other kingdoms have forced upon nature, destroying and slaughtering thousands of nature's creatures and creations?

I've noticed that people argue a lot about RP in this game. At the base level, methinks, a change has to be made on the character of the separate Kingdoms themselves. Where are their stories? Where is their culture? The closest I've seen/read, is the article on 'how to talk like a pirate' in the Pirate forum. Then there's Forest's tendency to use elven language while they converse with others. I have even adapted some japanese words into my vocabulary, just to attempt some authenticity while I am in character.

So before you can really get on to your people about roleplaying, I think there truly needs to be some decisions made about the very character of these kingdoms. Write your history, don't just end up as archetypes and races. There's more to RP than that.

MasterNuke, I do agree with your rant, but I have to turn and ask you why they should act that way? Is it due to the intent of their creators? Is it due to an unwritten history (that goes long before the beginning of their very existance, I am not talking about a history since a few people started the roleplaying group together)? Or is it something else entirely, such as the feelings of individuals who do not participate in these kingdoms and don't know the true feelings of the people within them.

Satrek2000
01-13-2004, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by narkotic
1. There's more that can be involved than just wars.

Most of Ed's rants were about a lack of wars, in a manner of speaking - at least as far the expansion and such are concerned.

Originally posted by narkotic
2. Acts such as that would be out of character, and also be considered the action of a single party. In such a situation, you'd be booted out of your kingdom for attempting to bring ruin to the diplomacy shared between the two countries.

Really? That's exactly my point. Even though the example wasn't meant to stand up to a test, if we want wars, we need reasons for them. They don't even have to be valid, just believable. And the best reasons, IMHO, are those based on interaction, spiced with creativity.

Originally posted by narkotic
I think MasterNuke's rant is valid. He is ranting about the very character of the Kingdom's themselves. They are no longer roleplayed to their original roots. Would the Dustari or Zormites of the past consider an alliance together, or even with the Samurai whose honor they hold most dear? Would the pirates segregate themselves in a corner and forget the rest of the world exists? Would Forest stand for the modernization that the other kingdoms have forced upon nature, destroying and slaughtering thousands of nature's creatures and creations?

For one, things change - there are family-ties now between Dustari and Zormite, and - while this is rather ooc - many Samurai/KJ wouldn't know honor if it stepped them on the feet.
But let me ask you - what should we do? Most players wouldn't be able to handle such a situation - or rather wouldn't want to and just keep pking. Besides, why should we all of a sudden rp hate against a former ally? While we need dynamics, changing them without some reason will be very counter-productive.

Originally posted by narkotic
I've noticed that people argue a lot about RP in this game. At the base level, methinks, a change has to be made on the character of the separate Kingdoms themselves. Where are their stories? Where is their culture? The closest I've seen/read, is the article on 'how to talk like a pirate' in the Pirate forum. Then there's Forest's tendency to use elven language while they converse with others. I have even adapted some japanese words into my vocabulary, just to attempt some authenticity while I am in character.

I see a difference between what you rp and how you do it. You can portray a pirate by talking about boats and attacking ships at sea (simplified), and while saying arr every now any then might add, it doesn't make you a pirate on it's own right.

narkotic
01-13-2004, 05:19 PM
"Most of Ed's rants were about a lack of wars, in a manner of speaking - at least as far the expansion and such are concerned."

Yes, political animosity and prejudice create wars. It's sad that the values he listed which would create this environment no longer exist in any of the kingdoms currently here. But the same rants can also be directed towards the roleplaying factor, in that all of these kingdoms have very little to offer besides for their setting, and the social support for game mechanics (help with leveling, answering questions about how to do things in the game, etc.).

"Really? That's exactly my point. Even though the example wasn't meant to stand up to a test, if we want wars, we need reasons for them. They don't even have to be valid, just believable. And the best reasons, IMHO, are those based on interaction, spiced with creativity."

It wasn't a very good example is all I'm saying. Although, I'm sure it would be pretty comical and that pet might need a shave anyway. I agree with the reasons for wars, but as everyone aligns with each other, that idea dies slowly as everyone becomes one big kingdom with different states.

"For one, things change - there are family-ties now between Dustari and Zormite, and - while this is rather ooc - many Samurai/KJ wouldn't know honor if it stepped them on the feet."

The family ties would have gone against the original values of these kingdoms. There sure was a lot of 'Romeo and Juliets' running around in those countries eh? If we go with that excuse, then let's just call them Dustmites and be done with it, and find some other evil kingdom ruler to create the fifth kingdom.

I am a member of Samurai now. There is a lot of material to work there, and there is a LOT of potential as well (almost all of the members are otaku's, not hardcore, but they have joined for a reason). It's the same as the people who like pirates. They just need to be guided into their roles, and insulting them isn't going to help. You can at least admit that there has been a change within the Kingdom, and it is changing for the better.

"But let me ask you - what should we do? Most players wouldn't be able to handle such a situation - or rather wouldn't want to and just keep pking. Besides, why should we all of a sudden rp hate against a former ally? While we need dynamics, changing them without some reason will be very counter-productive."

What should be done? I think Kingdom leaders and their members need to get together and start writing the histories of their Kingdoms. Not just the actions that have happened since the kingdom was created by some players, I mean, myths, stories of conflict and war from years past, songs; create the culture that their Kingdoms deserve to distinguish them from all the other Kingdoms. There's more than setting and the way graphics look and the name of your ranks. There needs to be lore, and the creative people will have a field day since I see very little of it.

I'm not saying that people should roleplay hate for their allies, but I believe as the culture of all these kingdoms drifts apart and become unique, the alliances will be seen as unfavorable to some. They will eventually drift a part, perhaps limit the alliance to a trade agreement, and then at some point arguments arise over trade routes or the control of certain... islands *wink*

"I see a difference between what you rp and how you do it. You can portray a pirate by talking about boats and attacking ships at sea (simplified), and while saying arr every now any then might add, it doesn't make you a pirate on it's own right."

I agree with you on that, and that was the point of that little bit. So far, all I've seen is a document about how to talk like a pirate. Then I've seen how certain people talk to one another. Language is important, you must understand. Look at Lord of the Rings. That entire universe was created around the elven language. It is a tool to be used in roleplaying, just the same as your wars.

The pirates should honestly be at odds with everyone. They should commanda fleet and own the seas. Any boat in their waters without the jolly roger should be sunk down and their crew to sleep in davey jones' locker. An angry group, composed of the races and culture of the other kingdoms, who form crews that are allied together under the name 'The Crescent Pirates.' Pirate-talk is an important tool, as it sets them apart from the other kingdoms a great deal. I also think they should be running around blowing up other boats quite often, and 'looting' quite a bit as well. I don't encourage stealing of course or scamming, but proper roleplayers probably couldn't help chasing down some pirates that ran off with their diamonds and are off to make the quick escape in their pirate vessel.

Nothing is going to change without the active participation of the kingdom leaders and their members. Isolation isn't going to solve it, and neither are alliances. While additional support with in-game mechanics that would allow ease of 'wars' and such, wars are not going to save the state of roleplaying within the Graal Kingdoms universe.

There's a long road ahead, nothing can be changed quickly. Rome wasn't built over night, and no quick fix is going to change habits that have developed over the span of this game's existance. As an individual I know I will fail in this, just as Ziro failed in his attempts to bring a global improvement in roleplaying. By joining together as a group, though, I think everyone will benefit and there will be a vast improvement overall. There will be resistance to those who like the way things have been, but I'm sure that after a while they will realize the fun that comes out of a well-done roleplaying session. But don't forget, roleplaying is only a tool in that fun, and no one would put all their faith in it to save everything. That's where we agree on the game dynamics issues.

Muha_builder
01-13-2004, 06:25 PM
Dustari is dull because they're not striving to gain more power by taking over other nations. (Loss of Power Hunger)
right.... you know we recently had a war with nighthawks and that we are in full controll of there island now?

Monkeyboy_McGee
01-13-2004, 06:34 PM
Hmmm, im getting a bit tired of these types of threads, which is a first time for me o_o
I mean, Ed has every right to make the thread, but is it really necessary?

There've been people crying out "OMAAGD PLPP NEED MOR WARZ" in countless threads recently, and the topic has burned down to two statements:

One is that lots of people want to fight in more wars. Part of the reason, i find, is that RP isn't strong enough anymore plus stats and levels and all that crap encourage fighting more than RPing (they don't have to, but they are doing =/). A good way to encourage RP is to encourage inter-kingdom relations, and an easy solution to this is fighting (although i personally don't think it is a very good solution at all, just a quick and easy one).

The second is that there is no way of having these wars that everyone wants. There is no system, or RP admin or anything, to stop respawners or to make anybody follow any guidelines. Also there is no system to stop powergamers from killing everyone on the field and then just having an average duel with another powergamer.

Wars are not a feasible solution to Rping problems right now.

Satrek2000
01-13-2004, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by Muha_builder

right.... you know we recently had a war with nighthawks and that we are in full controll of there island now?

It was a battle, not a proper war - which, in my mind, should last a week or so and be mutually planned. ;)

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee
Wars are not a feasible solution to Rping problems right now.

Certainly not, but the point is that, with a proper system, they wouldn't harm either.

Monkeyboy_McGee
01-13-2004, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Satrek2000

Certainly not, but the point is that, with a proper system, they wouldn't harm either.

O yes, there's no denying that :D

LoveableNalle
01-14-2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Satrek2000



For one, things change - there are family-ties now between Dustari and Zormite, and - while this is rather ooc - many Samurai/KJ wouldn't know honor if it stepped them on the feet.
Kurenai Joukai declares war on Satrek2000 :P

GoZelda
01-14-2004, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by LoveableNalle

Kurenai Joukai declares war on Satrek2000 :P
Satrek200 != RP...
Although Samurai does seem to declare war on single persons o.o;

Would the pirates segregate themselves in a corner and forget the rest of the world exists?
Well, seeing that Pirates don't really have a nation they can... Like :
'Hey a ship let's attack it', not:
'Hey a ship, is it Samurai? Is it Zormite? NO! IT's DUSTARI! Well guess we can't attack it then.'

Besides, the rules have change. And you probably didn't understand them neither.

right.... you know we recently had a war with nighthawks and that we are in full controll of there island now?
Power-hungry for a reason of war means that you attack a kingdom for an increase of territory for example. Not because they attack your allies.

narkotic
01-14-2004, 03:07 PM
"Well, seeing that Pirates don't really have a nation they can... Like :
'Hey a ship let's attack it', not:
'Hey a ship, is it Samurai? Is it Zormite? NO! IT's DUSTARI! Well guess we can't attack it then.'

Besides, the rules have change. And you probably didn't understand them neither."

Pirates attacking other ships, wouldn't that be an RP situation? If it was with anyone besides those in their own kingdom, it wouldn't have been valid (or it would have been OOC).

Yes, the rules have changed, after I wrote that post so your comment wasn't needed. I did understand them, that's WHY they have been changed.

Also, of course Satrek is OOC... I guess you've lost your sense of humour, that or you're letting your grudge against nalle show which is poor sport.

GoZelda
01-14-2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by narkotic

Well, seeing that Pirates don't really have a nation they can... Like :
'Hey a ship let's attack it', not:
'Hey a ship, is it Samurai? Is it Zormite? NO! IT's DUSTARI! Well guess we can't attack it then.'

Besides, the rules have change. And you probably didn't understand them neither."
Please use quotes, easier to read.

Originally posted by narkotic

Also, of course Satrek is OOC... I guess you've lost your sense of humour, that or you're letting your grudge against nalle show which is poor sport.
I thought she was serious because it sorta hapenned to me o.o;

thelostviking
01-14-2004, 04:59 PM
Satrek dangers the alliance if dustari would be rp they would have to kick him out now lol.

Satrek2000
01-14-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by LoveableNalle

Kurenai Joukai declares war on Satrek2000 :P

I'm afraid I have to decline your offer, although I feel quite flattered by it, honored Empress *bows* ;)

Monkeyboy_McGee
01-14-2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by GoZelda

I thought she was serious because it sorta hapenned to me o.o;

No, cyrin, you happened to it.