PDA

View Full Version : The Most Important Duties


narkotic
01-10-2004, 05:45 AM
I am wondering, since obviously I am a **** and through my 20 years of life I have no clue about leadership or what's involved in running an organization, even though I have run a few groups myself over the past 8 years... what are the most important duties of kingdom leaders for this game?

I have my own ideas on it, but I'm just wondering what other people think. Please, if there is flaming in this thread don't lock the entire thread, just delete the posts that are flames. I've already had one post locked for such a silly reason when the thread was meant to spark thought, reflection and change.

Hopefully there will be some inspiring and thought provoking additions. I'm speaking mostly to all the kingdom leaders, of course.

--Chris--
01-10-2004, 06:28 AM
"I am wondering, since obviously I am a **** and through my 20 years of life I have no clue about leadership or what's involved in running an organization" <--- <3 your sarcasm

Well, my priorities are like this:

1) Developing items, revamping island and such.
2)Assigning ranks/rights.
3)Recruiting through a somewhat complex RP test.
4)Maintaining my recruits (includes holding events) and moderating their behavior (also on forums.)
5)Having no negative relations in my diplomacy.

protagonist
01-10-2004, 04:09 PM
1)Be dependable, if someone needs help with something then be the first in line to help them out, support them.
2)Recruit and promote responsibly, based on RPing and not stats/whether they are your friends or not.
3)Set guidelines for RPing, don't let your members act like fools on their tag unless they are very obviously speaking ooc (in brackets or with OOC in their name).
4)RP often! This will keep your members' interest.

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

KyJe27
01-10-2004, 11:24 PM
"4)Maintaining my recruits (includes holding events) and moderating their behavior (also on forums.)"

"3)Set guidelines for RPing, don't let your members act like fools on their tag unless they are very obviously speaking ooc (in brackets or with OOC in their name).
4)RP often! This will keep your members' interest."

Let me guess your going to push for these people to be replaced too narkotic....:rolleyes:

narkotic
01-11-2004, 12:02 AM
The Kingdoms in GK serve a purpose to assist in the storyline, correct? So they assist the game, and create more fun for the players who are involved in the different Kingdoms in the game?

Then one of the reasons for a leader in a Kingdom to exist is to also ensure the enjoyment of all their members. The purpose of the Kings, Queens, Dictators, Lords and Governors too, is to basicly serve the people that make up their Kingdom. To take it into a positive direction, that will bring more enjoyment to all the members, which will also be fair and take into consideration their own interests, wishes and desires.

When a large number of those members disagree with the direction being taken, wouldn't it be in your best interests to re-evaluate the course of action, and actually listen to such complaints? Or perhaps, if they asked you questions and clarification on things, wouldn't you want to address them in the most polite and helpful manner?

Some might be thinking, you wouldn't have to address someone pleasantly ICly, if your character wasn't the most pleasant sort. I can understand within IC conversations, but I am speaking of commonly agreed OOC mediums of communication: guild messages, private messages, forums.

I also ponder on the ownership of the different Kingdoms. Do they belong to the members that play in those kingdoms, therefore allowing them to have a voice and role in the direction of the kingdom, or do these kingdoms belong to the one who is in the king rank? Is this person's power absolute, or is it only valid with the will and trust of those that are below them.

Being dependable, recruiting and promoting responsibly, setting guidelines and regulations, setting an example with roleplayng, creating content and events along with a storyline, and conducting diplomacy, are all merely activities that should be expected of a ruler. Shouldn't the overall duty of a Kingdom leader be the one where they ensure the members of their Kingdom are having fun as a result of their activities?

KyJe27
01-11-2004, 12:20 AM
Narkotic, first you accuse us of haveing rules that you do not like/enjoy and try to make us change them. Now that you know we are allowed and should enforce our rules your trying to shove political garbage into these people heads by saying everyone is not haveing fun. I agree some people do not like the rules but there are plently left that do, not to mention plently more who still want in. As for the people with a problem, either conform or leave it's your decsion. I already guild pm'ed this in game, being in a Kingdom is not a right, it's a privilage.

Is it just me or dose every other kingdom leader belive in this?

Also you said something about being twenty and knowing more about the world and it's workings... Wait till your fourty and you will kick yourself for saying such a thing. :rolleyes:

-Get a clue, because nobody else can give you one.

narkotic
01-11-2004, 03:31 AM
"Narkotic, first you accuse us of haveing rules that you do not like/enjoy and try to make us change them."

Let me make this clear first. I have enjoyed my time in Crescent Pirates up until a few days ago when there were people who spoke to me about the rules you are referring to. All I have done, for the most part, is present these issues to the public. I understand where they are coming from, since they have been in CP for a while now, and these changes were made without their opinions being a concern to you and Ziro.

"Now that you know we are allowed and should enforce our rules your trying to shove political garbage into these people heads by saying everyone is not haveing fun."

Hmm, no I have not retired the thought that you and Ziro are not allowed to make these changes. For the most part, I am trying to find out if other kingdom leaders would take into consideration their kingdom members opinions if they made a choice to post something as drastic and extreme as what you and Ziro produced, and then immediately put them into law without any discussion from those it actually affects. When they disagree with anything, you tell them to leave if they are unhappy. This fundamentally is the wrong way to run a kingdom, and I am sure there are other kingdom leaders who feel the same way but have not actually spoke to either of you about it.

You see, I wish things from you were so credible, but they aren't. You're one of the people that your members complain about. Suddenly you were brought in, and you become the second highest rank in the guild after the Governor speaks high praise about you. You must understand, methinks, that with a title brings respect, and not many people respect you, including myself. Especially for how quickly you respond with sarcasm and rude statements.

"Also you said something about being twenty and knowing more about the world and it's workings... Wait till your fourty and you will kick yourself for saying such a thing."

Hmm, well let's look at my artful piece of sarcasm.

" since obviously I am a **** and through my 20 years of life I have no clue about leadership or what's involved in running an organization"

Does this say I know more about the world and it's workings? I think I was pretty specific in what I was talking about. This was about leadership and running an organization, such as a Kingdom.

Also, that's quite a statement about the 40 years old bit, since you're only 17 yourself.

"Get a clue, because nobody else can give you one."

I have a clue, Yuber. The original intent of this post was summed up with the following statement: "Hopefully there will be some inspiring and thought provoking additions." There was never an original intent for an attack on the Crescent Pirates or its leadership, but since you have responded to my thread off-topic with your sarcasm, I was forced to respond with more specific details and examples. Is this politics? Of course, and any person has their own views, I just wish to express mine. If you don't want to hear them, that's fine as well. I'm just glad you nor Ziro can lock my thread here so I cannot express them.

Monkeyboy_McGee
01-11-2004, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by narkotic
For the most part, I am trying to find out if other kingdom leaders would take into consideration their kingdom members opinions if they made a choice to post something as drastic and extreme as what you and Ziro produced, and then immediately put them into law without any discussion from those it actually affects. When they disagree with anything, you tell them to leave if they are unhappy. This fundamentally is the wrong way to run a kingdom, and I am sure there are other kingdom leaders who feel the same way but have not actually spoke to either of you about it.

Ziro_Vitrudestec
01-11-2004, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by KyJe27
Narkotic, first you accuse us of haveing rules that you do not like/enjoy and try to make us change them. Now that you know we are allowed and should enforce our rules your trying to shove political garbage into these people heads by saying everyone is not haveing fun. I agree some people do not like the rules but there are plently left that do, not to mention plently more who still want in. As for the people with a problem, either conform or leave it's your decsion. I already guild pm'ed this in game, being in a Kingdom is not a right, it's a privilage.

Is it just me or dose every other kingdom leader belive in this?

Also you said something about being twenty and knowing more about the world and it's workings... Wait till your fourty and you will kick yourself for saying such a thing. :rolleyes:

-Get a clue, because nobody else can give you one.

Hey, Yuber, I know how we can calm down all the complaints and make these people happy. That would be by putting these rules into action:

-People don't have to be IC on tag ALL the time. They should RP though and we encourage this. You should do this if the situation allows it. (vague rule)
-People will be promoted based on how many hours they have lgoged onto Graal, how long they've been in the kingdom, and what level they are
-PKing is not allowed on tag or while RPing. I mean...who's ever heard of a pirate that...*gulps* kills people? Or does illegal things? A practicioner of piracy who commits crimes? THAT'S NONESENSE!
-If someone breaks any rules, the kingdom officials MUST beg, plead, and be nice (as nice as if you were talking to your only remaining friend/family who is very weak, fragile, and could die by a minor touch)
-People in the kingdom who complain about how our RPing is horrible WILL be frowned upon and even punished
-You don't have to be a pirate. GK doesn't have a good system for being pirates. And since roleplaying is TOTALLY about how you look in-game and has NOTHING to do with imagination and pretending, it's IMPOSSIBLE to be a pirate. So all you people who don't want to talk at all like a pirate, dont like acting like a sailor, and just want to be some other type of person are now allowed in here.
-By placing these new rules into action, we will simply disregard the hard, long efforts of the members and leaders from the past, especially Ghost Pirate, and just continue being a shamefull group under the name of what was once the Pirate Crew.
-I will say "lol" in RP events.


Do you see why I don't care about making those people happy? Not only am I afraid of Ghost Pirate seeking out my current physical location and removing my skull from my spine, but believe it or not...*gasp* I prefer an RPing environment. I'd rather make the RPers happy. They also have less complaints. A non-RPer worries more about items and game mechanics; getting his kills and items stolen...etc. I won't have an RPer PM me and saying "Oh, man! Sailor <insert name> stole my eye patch right off my eye! We were by my house and he said '*rips off your eye patch*'. Do something plz!"....Since you decided to bring the topic into this thread, I'll say it now...I'm not going to care much about this flame war since it can be summed up like this: "RPers" vs "Non-RPers/Bad-RPers/People who don't want to learn to RP".

KyJe27
01-11-2004, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by narkotic
You must understand, methinks, that with a title brings respect, and not many people respect you, including myself. Especially for how quickly you respond with sarcasm and rude statements.

I give respect to people I respect.

The sarcasm is a bad habbit from my older brothers.:(

I also have been on kingdoms for a long time... I was in Crecent Pirates but my account ran out. When I came back I was already Blackguard, but the original Captain left so Ziro asked me to take his place. I did not just inherit it from Ziro because I am his friend nor because I have a high level.

Another reason for my sarcasm is you cannot say something inteligent to a immature person(s) in a argument. Sometimes it is best to stoop to their level so they can see how dumb they look when how annoyed they get with you. :rolleyes:

Alisa and yourself have proven yourseleves not to be immature... but there was some among your group that are.

Monkeyboy_McGee
01-11-2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Ziro_Vitrudestec


God, is this guy just stupid or what...

PS.

Originally posted by Ziro_Vitrudestec



Do you see why I don't care about making those people happy? Not only am I afraid of Ghost Pirate seeking out my current physical location and removing my skull from my spine, but believe it or not...*gasp* I prefer an RPing environment.

Wtf...and a wts, also. I -highly- doubt Ghost Pirate would do any of the idiotic things you do. If anything, he would hunt you down and remove your skull from your spine for being a crappy governor.


PSS. How to be a good kingdom leader: Do whatever Ziro isn't doing. ;)

narkotic
01-11-2004, 10:19 PM
First off, Monkeyboy, I appreciate your support, but I have to say that I need you to refrain from personal attacks against Ziro and Yuber. These attacks lead to an excuse to close the thread under the pirate forum, before I could even respond to some of the things posted under my last comments there. It's not helping the situation, only heating the flames. Thanks.

"People don't have to be IC on tag ALL the time. They should RP though and we encourage this. You should do this if the situation allows it. (vague rule)"

People have to be IC all the time while on tag. This is commonly accepted by all the kingdoms, and no one has challenged this. It is the issue of having people put -OOC- in their name while on tag, only to ensure there is 'activity' amongst the members. The point is, the isolation you've put into effect cancels the need for -OOC-. Everyone besides CP members are OOC, therefore there's no need for us to put that in our name. So if you see members walking about and they aren't talking piratey (when they are not on the pirate island, and there are no pirates around) they are breaking no rules. The people around them are OOC, therefore there's no need for them to talk ICly. What's the point in talking between (( and ))? By your very rules, they'd just be talking to themselves since everyone around them doesn't really exist.

I would say that, even if people are off tag, that their actions reflect CP. Having a Captain go off tag, trick a bunch of people to come into a tavern, and then proceed to pk them all without much of an IC reason fer it, doesn't reflect well on your hardcore roleplaying environment that keeps being shouted about.

"People will be promoted based on how many hours they have lgoged onto Graal, how long they've been in the kingdom, and what level they are"

For all I know, that's how things are going right now. Members have complained that over your 3 months as Governor, they feel they have been wrongly overlooked for promotions, while they have to watch people bumped up to high ranking positions on the very day they join. The prestige for those positions go down the toilet, and the ones in question that received these promotions are now kicked for not following the rules. How did they get to those high positions then? Can't tell me it's a fluke...

"PKing is not allowed on tag or while RPing. I mean...who's ever heard of a pirate that...*gulps* kills people? Or does illegal things? A practicioner of piracy who commits crimes? THAT'S NONESENSE!"

PK'ing during RP is understood as acceptable, and many people agree with this. Scamming people is not, and there was a scammer within the clan, and when confronted about it, the victim received the response "we're pirates, what do you expect?" Would you sit idley with the same answer? I'm sure you wouldn't. Of course, you're too smart to fall for a scam, but not everyone lives a life where they don't trust people. That needs to be taken into consideration. Thankfully Coven resolved the issue and booted that player out. That person still doesn't have their equipment, and I might add, it made the overall impression of CP as being a haven for scammers.

"If someone breaks any rules, the kingdom officials MUST beg, plead, and be nice (as nice as if you were talking to your only remaining friend/family who is very weak, fragile, and could die by a minor touch)"

Nobody has asked for this. If a major rule is broken that goes against game policy and such, I agree with punishment. People who don't RP correctly shouldn't be confronted harshly. You're not going to teach them anything if you hurt their feelings. Remember, a number of your members are still young men and women, and the adults in your group don't take kindly on how you speak to them either. Respect is the issue at hand in that regard.

"People in the kingdom who complain about how our RPing is horrible WILL be frowned upon and even punished"

Those of us who are against your rules have no problem with the RPing in the kingdom. We are absolutely in support of a stronger Roleplaying environment in the Crescent Pirates. What worries us is that you are taking us away from a public RP environment, and are trying to make it completely private. By doing so, you are removing us from the very basics of Kingdoms. If you're making us OOC to all the other kingdoms, you're writing us right out of the GK storyline. What's to stop a rogue group of pirates who wish to roleplay with the other kingdoms from starting up, and taking over your organization? That'd be more in character than the items in the document you've written. As a matter of fact, besides for the way people talk and the fact that not everyone agrees with some of your rules in other kingdoms, what IC reason do you have for us to roleplay that no other kingdom exists?

"You don't have to be a pirate. GK doesn't have a good system for being pirates. And since roleplaying is TOTALLY about how you look in-game and has NOTHING to do with imagination and pretending, it's IMPOSSIBLE to be a pirate. So all you people who don't want to talk at all like a pirate, dont like acting like a sailor, and just want to be some other type of person are now allowed in here."

I think the system for GK is very much in favor of pirates. We have ships, there's a lot of clothing that looks like a good pirate could wear, we have eye patches on several heads, a weapon that is a hook, an awesome looking island. You're also contradicting yourself. First your sarcasm is about how we feel that roleplaying has nothing to do with imagination and pretending (which we don't), then you say that being a pirate is all about talking like one. There's more to being a pirate than the way you talk, but people get jumped on all the time because they don't talk piratey enough for your standards.

"By placing these new rules into action, we will simply disregard the hard, long efforts of the members and leaders from the past, especially Ghost Pirate, and just continue being a shamefull group under the name of what was once the Pirate Crew."

Some of the people who are against ye are some of these long-standing members and leaders. I honestly am not a long-time member myself, but I'm sure Ghost Pirate would have had it in his plan to try and improve the overall quality of the server's roleplaying, and not say that no one likes your rules so they can't play in your sand box anymore.

"Do you see why I don't care about making those people happy? Not only am I afraid of Ghost Pirate seeking out my current physical location and removing my skull from my spine, but believe it or not...*gasp* I prefer an RPing environment. I'd rather make the RPers happy. They also have less complaints. A non-RPer worries more about items and game mechanics; getting his kills and items stolen...etc. I won't have an RPer PM me and saying "Oh, man! Sailor <insert name> stole my eye patch right off my eye! We were by my house and he said '*rips off your eye patch*'. Do something plz!"....Since you decided to bring the topic into this thread, I'll say it now...I'm not going to care much about this flame war since it can be summed up like this: "RPers" vs "Non-RPers/Bad-RPers/People who don't want to learn to RP"."

You don't care about making the majority of your members happy, and you fear a person who is no longer affiliated with CP, or as you like to nostalgically refer to as the Pirate Crew. You want to make this out to be an RPer versus Non-RPer, but in actuality it's a powerhungry butt-kisser group versus people who have a different opinion than you and believe you should spread some of that power more and let more people be involved in decisions for the kingdom as a whole.

"I give respect to people I respect."'
So, Yuber, if everyone followed this philosophy, no one would respect anyone or anything else. If you give respect before someone shows they don't deserve it, you'll receive more respect in the long run.

"The sarcasm is a bad habbit from my older brothers."
This is an excuse, take responsibility for your actions.

"I also have been on kingdoms for a long time... I was in Crecent Pirates but my account ran out. When I came back I was already Blackguard, but the original Captain left so Ziro asked me to take his place. I did not just inherit it from Ziro because I am his friend nor because I have a high level."
I understand now, but what IC reason is it for you to receive back your position? What IC reason was it that you disappeared and you needed to be replaced?

"Another reason for my sarcasm is you cannot say something inteligent to a immature person(s) in a argument. Sometimes it is best to stoop to their level so they can see how dumb they look when how annoyed they get with you."

Ignore them, then. As a leader, you should always be above such things. Bringing yourself down doesn't prove you right, as you know, two wrongs don't make a right. You're not helping your position when you respond to someone who stands in front of you calmly and maturely with sarcasm, rudeness, and overall jerkyness. These people who act immaturely should be looking bad on my position, but by acting immaturely yourself, you're actually hurting your more than mine.

narkotic
01-11-2004, 10:21 PM
There are young people in CP, there's no doubt about that. This is a game for all audiences. You both are young yourselves, so you really haven't a reason to look down among your peers. I initially started all this as a means to try and make you see from a different direction on how your actions look, but you rejected those opinions and suggestions, and said I was attacking you, insulting you, and calling you stupid. I did not make those accusations, but instead you have proven them yourselves.

Now, those of you Kingdom leaders who have probably read this and the other post in the CP forums, you see what many of us are dealing with in our leadership. This really is an embarassment at times to the RP community and Kingdoms as a whole. This evening, at around 6:00pm EST, a revolution will be starting. If you wish to support this, please contact me in game. There are more people than just the pirates that are affected by the complete isolation proposed and enforced by the Governor of the Crescent Pirates.

kc5ikc
01-11-2004, 10:54 PM
Im not sure the Governor or Yuber understand things...here's a cut from his post Roleplay of Crescent Pirates Post.

For now on, in character, the kingdom of the Crescent Pirates will remain in isolation from all other kingdoms. All Crescent Pirates are to refrain from any in character discussion with any non-pirates.

We will remain nuteral IC with all kingdoms. This means we break any alliances or hosility we have IC with kingdoms.

In a sense, a very major sense, CP will be like a seperate role-playing game.

This is because all kingdoms have their own standards of roleplaying. We like to have the strictest, with no exceptions. If you refer to our rules, you see ALL players in CP must be in character on tag at ALL times UNLESS they have "-OOC-" in their name. We feel these are traditional ways of roleplaying and are simply commonly accepted as well as being common-sense rules. We will now enforce this rule even more. We understand other kingdoms may not necessarily require RPing on tag all the time. We will not waste our time trying to change this. Some people seem to enjoy these systems better. However, if we try to make our system work with these others, it does not work well at all. It is in our best interest that we discontinue doing so.


1. If you see Ziro, you yourself state in this that if we refer to our rules, that all players must be on tag at ALL times.

2. Just because other Kingdoms don't uphold to YOUR roleplay standards, doesn't mean we shold shun them and keep Roleplay IC to just our Kingdom....Its arrogant to make such a comment and some see it as just that.

I personally see things you have done in the past as being good, I have stood by since your posting that we will break IC relations to Roleplay amongst ourselves and to see what is coming about. The problem thus far is that you haven't started any rumors of any trouble, nor have we seen any type of Kingdom roleplay event come about. Yuber leaves out for a period of time because his account gets cut off. During which time, you made a comment that the Blackguard was disbanded and inactive, and even went as far in game to state that with the lack of experience in roleplay amongst ourselves, that anyone able to demonstrate good roleplay would advance quickly. Though we can't be IC with anyone outside the CP, because of the rules...we don't acknowlege the outside world as being Roleplayers. So what are we supposed to do? everyone waits day to day to see Roleplay events in Kingdom since we are, our own little game away from everyone else, and to this day, you've yet to produce a Roleplay event since the one in which you were sick. When and how long are we supposed to wait to Roleplay events....events that you even state will be happening soon.....I know they time to setup...but people don't wanna sit around Idle. GoZelda just planted treasure about the Isle to create some sort of event and thats about the extent of our roleplay events as of late.....

Knightress
01-11-2004, 11:00 PM
Like it or not, Cresent Pirates is an embarassment at this point....This isn't RPing in the Community, it's chaos in the community...It's embarassing!
We had a vote on the Governor stepping down as Gov, due to his rules and speaking down to his Kingdom's people and was voted out 8 to 3 (11 votes in all) You've been asked to step down Ziro, you are a bad leader due to not caring about your people in the Kingdom and due to your rules of isolation...
I'm asking for a Global Admin on GK to remove him and place Kerith and Norm in control, so the Cresent Pirates stand a chance of surviving on GK :\

Monkeyboy_McGee
01-12-2004, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by narkotic
First off, Monkeyboy, I appreciate your support, but I have to say that I need you to refrain from personal attacks against Ziro and Yuber. These attacks lead to an excuse to close the thread under the pirate forum, before I could even respond to some of the things posted under my last comments there. It's not helping the situation, only heating the flames. Thanks.

Understood. Apologies :)

GoZelda
01-14-2004, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee

PSS. How to be a good kingdom leader: Do whatever Ziro isn't doing. ;)
Not making rules, ranks, enforce RPing, try getting kingdom event items? Dunno what's so good about that.

KyJe27
01-15-2004, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by GoZelda

Not making rules, ranks, enforce RPing, try getting kingdom event items? Dunno what's so good about that.

Ignorance is bliss for some people. :p

Monkeyboy_McGee
01-15-2004, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by KyJe27


Ignorance is bliss for some people. :p