PDA

View Full Version : Republic or Monarch?


sageofthehalo
02-03-2003, 07:26 PM
Zurkiba is "fighting" to make Dustari into a Republic, where instead of having somone next in line for king, we have "terms" 1-2 month period of where somone is voted king. Personally, I do not think we should tamper with what we have now, Dustari has been a monarch for since I can remember, and I think it should stay that way, Please post your thoughts. Now remember, this monarchy doesnt include anU. I am talking about when he is gone.

busyrobot
02-03-2003, 07:38 PM
I only voted for the monarchy idea because we need the stability, I don't trust we would survive the bickering over who lost and if what was fair, and damaging buy-votes-for-ranks stuff.

I think we should have the King be King, but perhaps the Prince or other top positions can be voted for.

A power-sharing, with King being the Ruler still, that is possible.

Otherwise, monarchy is still the wisest choice.

sageofthehalo
02-03-2003, 07:42 PM
I agree! I was elected for Prince ((Even though the person I was running against wasnt heir but I was)), so I tihnk Prince and others should be voted for, the the king should be handed down to the heir, that goes the same for the queen.

Neoreno
02-03-2003, 07:54 PM
Treason! Blasphemy! The king is appointed by Divine right! How dare you disagree. *coughs*

zell12
02-03-2003, 08:08 PM
Republic is wanted by some people to get Kamuii as king.
Monarchy would still be the best bet, if only you would keep royal blood as royal members, so you don't have an idiot like anU as King.

sageofthehalo
02-03-2003, 08:20 PM
Yah, I had no say in anU being king *coughLarriendecicedcough*

Zurkiba
02-03-2003, 08:26 PM
This vote should not have happened just yet because I have not made the rough draft of the government overlay.

But the Monarchy will not be stable... We have two examples on why Monarchy does not work... anU is king, and Larrien quit.
And Bitty... You havn't been in Dustari all the long =x...

You see... The republic would mean that the people choose who they want. And I'm making the draft right now so read that before you run off and vote for this.

And yet again... I never got a vote. So it wasn't a public poll.

sageofthehalo
02-03-2003, 08:36 PM
I've been in Dustari for a good year and half or more I mind u --.--

:\


And if there was a republican, everything would get waay to confusing, and people would end up using bribery to choose the new king and such, which would make even that unstable.


Both the monarchy and the republican has their drawbacks, but right now more people want monarchy, know how to run a monarchy, and it has run fine.

Zurkiba
02-03-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by sageofthehalo
I've been in Dustari for a good year and half or more I mind u --.--

:\


And if there was a republican, everything would get waay to confusing, and people would end up using bribery to choose the new king and such, which would make even that unstable.


Both the monarchy and the republican has their drawbacks, but right now more people want monarchy, know how to run a monarchy, and it has run fine.
You've only been on the forums for three months...
And I do not remember you.

It would be be confusing. There is no differnce with confusion if you elect your king or your prince.

busyrobot
02-03-2003, 08:55 PM
I propose we enterain the Republic idea, and refine it over the next while.

We have a vacuum of leadership right now - no (popular) King, a very new prince, a former King in limbo, we don't need to add to that a vacuum of no tested structure. We would surely collapse.

We should try the whole Republic or partial republic thing in a few weeks, hash out the system in the mean time (not just say 'yes Zurk/no Zurk) and work it out so it can be stable before implementing anything.

Our only hope for any new system to work is to make it flawless on paper, and then hope the chaos that occurs when it's practiced can be kept to a minimum. I don't want to sound alarmist, but there are many more systems that look good on paper than work when tried.

So, to start lets at least take the time to make it look good on paper, because if we can't do that, then there is no hope it will work.

Zurk, do post what you come up with, it's an intruging idea.

Googi
02-03-2003, 09:28 PM
Well, I don't play Kingdoms, but a Republic sounds more fun.

ZanderX
02-03-2003, 09:32 PM
Monarchy. Republics are crap.

Googi
02-03-2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by ZanderX
Monarchy. Republics are crap.

Why's that?

MilkyWay0016
02-03-2003, 09:58 PM
A republic would take away all RPing.
OMG I RP TEH PRESIDENT LELZ

<=(

Maybe there should be a system where if the majority of Dustari seems to oppose a ruler, they can vote them out :)

busyrobot
02-03-2003, 10:36 PM
at least 2/3 majority.

It's too risky to change leaders at whim if the Kingdom is tightly divided.

Also, I am concered that people will refuse to cooperate with the King, believing they will get their way as soon as they can stir up enough decent.

Brad
02-03-2003, 10:38 PM
monarchy

Zurkiba
02-03-2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by MilkyWay0016
A republic would take away all RPing.
OMG I RP TEH PRESIDENT LELZ

<=(

Maybe there should be a system where if the majority of Dustari seems to oppose a ruler, they can vote them out :)
Roman Republic...
The title is King.

At the rate Dustari is going... it's becoming the next Zormite (2k1)... where a new king comes in every ten seconds.

Googi
02-03-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Zurkiba
At the rate Dustari is going... it's becoming the next Zormite (2k1)... where a new king comes in every ten seconds.

Bad comparision. You were one of those kings, remember?

Zurkiba
02-04-2003, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Googi


Bad comparision. You were one of those kings, remember?
I stayed for much longer than 10 seconds...

And I'm sorry but you cant say I'm a bad Kingdom Leader... (Not in refference to Googi's post)

Dustari seems to always be in a power struggle with ranks
Zormite used to be newbie ville
Samurai I'm not sure about
Pirates Did what they wanted rather it was RP or not
And the Karakaze just couldn't RP.

But when I controlled a kingdom... they followed my Iron Fist. Everyone RPed or I killed them. And they were excellent in forgien policy. They knew who their leader was and they knew what they could do.

If you think you could surpass me... then go get a kingdom with a single member, and make it evolve into a super power. Astri fell because I was backstabbed by the people I helped.
---
When I lead a kingdom I make it for that day... which is a mistake. I do not plan for the next month or such. But I help the kingdoms who are in deep trouble.

Googi
02-04-2003, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Zurkiba
And I'm sorry but you cant say I'm a bad Kingdom Leader...

...Zormite was deleted while you were king, and then you were banned for hacking :\

sageofthehalo
02-04-2003, 12:40 AM
The only reason they followed your commands under your "iron fist" is because they where scared of you! THATS THE ONLY REASON. You said either they did what you wanted them to do, or u killed them.


And to think just this morning you where saying "set my rank to king"

If you where EVER King of G2K2 Dustari, well I would go baibai.

Brad
02-04-2003, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by sageofthehalo
The only reason they followed your commands under your "iron fist" is because they where scared of you! THATS THE ONLY REASON. You said either they did what you wanted them to do, or u killed them.


And to think just this morning you where saying "set my rank to king"

If you where EVER King of G2K2 Dustari, well I would go baibai.

Yeah, and noone would care.


He lead with an iron fist and I believe that is how kingdoms should be run.

MilkyWay0016
02-04-2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by Brad


Yeah, and noone would care.


He lead with an iron fist and I believe that is how kingdoms should be run.

Only if the person with an ironfist is a good leader :\

And you made people RP your way, Zurkiba. I remember when you were king of forest it was like the most un-fun time for other kingdoms. Dustari, at least. I'm not sure how it was in forest.

Just becuase you were "at war" with Dustari and Zormite didn't mean you had to threaten us (Execute Gryffon and Bitty or we attack you), etc. You can be a cool guy, but you ruin RPing for anyone that doesn't kiss your shoes.

You use all this doublespeak, saying you were helping us by making us get rid of GREAT THREATS TO DUSTAIR>!#!)#*AD
and such =\

Zurkiba
02-04-2003, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by Googi


...Zormite was deleted while you were king, and then you were banned for hacking :\
It fell under Tseng and Nappa =x

I quit Zormite before that...

Originally posted by sageofthehalo
The only reason they followed your commands under your "iron fist" is because they where scared of you! THATS THE ONLY REASON. You said either they did what you wanted them to do, or u killed them.


And to think just this morning you where saying "set my rank to king"

If you where EVER King of G2K2 Dustari, well I would go baibai.
No, they follow me because I'm a strong leader. It's like voting for the President of the US... Who would you rather vote for?

Conditions: USSR is back and bringing a threat to the US
Persons Running:

Hons - Ex-Marine, killed thousands with bare hands, won ten battles through stratagy, master of war

NerdyGuyz - Nerd with pocket protecter, Never been laid.
---
They follow me because I've earned their loyality.

This morning I was trying to assist you in your little rebellion.. I know how the GUI works and I thought I could do something. I do not know why you keep trying to use that against me because I've explained it to you many times.

MilkyWay0016
02-04-2003, 03:37 AM
Yeah, uhm, who would vote for a murderer over a nerd?

And why are you asking us this, arn't half the people here nerds?
Wrong question, dood.

And I really hope you don't vote for your leader on the basis of how many times they've been laid.

Brad
02-04-2003, 03:40 AM
I AM HANS

Googi
02-04-2003, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by MilkyWay0016
And I really hope you don't vote for your leader on the basis of how many times they've been laid.

Clinton got elected :\

Originally posted by Zurkiba
Hons - Ex-Marine, killed thousands with bare hands, won ten battles through stratagy, master of war

NerdyGuyz - Nerd with pocket protecter, Never been laid.

Sounds like you're making it out to be like You vs. Kaimetsu.

I'd vote for Kaimetsu.

Zurkiba
02-04-2003, 03:43 PM
The conditions is that it's a war torn world... Do you want a leader who would protect you... or one who would issue pocket protectors?

And why is it every single thing I say in example is somehow reffered as me?

Googi
02-04-2003, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Zurkiba
The conditions is that it's a war torn world... Do you want a leader who would protect you... or one who would issue pocket protectors?

I want the person most likely to find a peaceful solution, who isn't going to be the bloodthirsty, "LETS KIL STUF K" person.

Zurkiba
02-04-2003, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by Googi


I want the person most likely to find a peaceful solution, who isn't going to be the bloodthirsty, "LETS KIL STUF K" person.
No, the examples of the people was a strong leader and a weak leader.

Peace is not an option... war is the only way.
Do you really think there can be months of peace of Graal?

busyrobot
02-04-2003, 09:12 PM
Zurk,

I find your lack of depth frightening.

Your nerd comparison is like saying the only choices are between a psycho and a flower pot.

Obviously, a flower pot in an inanimate object, and cannot lead so - YES, PSYCHOS #1! PSYCHOS #1!

Your 'nerd' would issue pocket protectors?

What if the choice was between the nerd and a bowl of oatmeal? "NERDS #1! NERDS #1! NERDS #1!"

My point is, when you setup an analogy that is polarized, lop-sided, and completely unreflective of any real situation, it doesn't count for much.

The facts are you need strong leaders who are more than intimidators, and you can't have leaders who cannot intimiate when needed either.

As Erik, you used force to obtain your goals, and it backfired because no one would support you when your dominate strength wained. You couldn't even tell when people lied to you just to get you to let them live.

If I thought war was all graal had to offer, I wouldn't even play.

Wars will come, they always do, and we must be prepared. We don't, however need the level of aggression you subscribe to.

Zurkiba
02-04-2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by busyrobot
Zurk,

I find your lack of depth frightening.

Your nerd comparison is like saying the only choices are between a psycho and a flower pot.

Obviously, a flower pot in an inanimate object, and cannot lead so - YES, PSYCHOS #1! PSYCHOS #1!

Your 'nerd' would issue pocket protectors?

What if the choice was between the nerd and a bowl of oatmeal? "NERDS #1! NERDS #1! NERDS #1!"

My point is, when you setup an analogy that is polarized, lop-sided, and completely unreflective of any real situation, it doesn't count for much.

The facts are you need strong leaders who are more than intimidators, and you can't have leaders who cannot intimiate when needed either.

As Erik, you used force to obtain your goals, and it backfired because no one would support you when your dominate strength wained. You couldn't even tell when people lied to you just to get you to let them live.

If I thought war was all graal had to offer, I wouldn't even play.

Wars will come, they always do, and we must be prepared. We don't, however need the level of aggression you subscribe to.
The point of the comparision was to state a strong leader is key to having loyality.

Force was not used in my kingdom. Ask my members. Force was used when the security of Astri was threatened.

I'm here in my defense, and I was just setting an example on WHY my members followed me. I only killed those who backstabbed me... like Elazul. The war with Samurai, one cause was Elazul... but that's not the only cause.

MilkyWay0016
02-04-2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Zurkiba

I only killed those who backstabbed me... like Elazul. The war with Samurai, one cause was Elazul... but that's not the only cause.

Itís not always about you. Stop putting your petty revenge in front of everyone else's fun, okay?

I seriously hope no real nation is ever unlucky enough to have you in power
Did you ever stop to think the reason war happens so much on graal is because of you?
At least, the not fun wars.

Before you were in forest king, Dustari and PC at least had lots of fun harmless skirmishes, then you come along and sha-BAM: OMGZ LETZ KIILL EVER1 LELZ

Stop laying the blame on other people and start acting your age :o

Googi
02-04-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by Zurkiba
Peace is not an option... war is the only way.

If that were the case, the world would be doomed no matter who got elected. Do you really think that it's possible to "win" a nuclear war?

sageofthehalo
02-05-2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Zurkiba



Peace is not an option... war is the only way.
Do you really think there can be months of peace of Graal?


Umm we havnt had a kingdom war since....November...

busyrobot
02-05-2003, 01:46 AM
The point of the comparision was to state a strong leader is key to having loyality.

And my point is you are wrong. :D

Strength only allows you to bend people, but you cannot break them, unless they get so frustrated they leave Graal forever.

If you bend them, at some point your strength waines for a moment, and they snap back.

Force buys you two types of loyalty:
1) Those you can step on and have no recourse but to obey you.
2) Those who wish to use their affiliation to you as borrowed strength, so they can step on people who will have no recourse but to obey them.

In either case, the currency is volitile:
1) Will stab you in the back and plot agianst you as soon as they can.
2) The second type will switch loyalties when someone else can promise them a better deal.


I can't understand why you have such trouble understanding this, when you experienced this type of 'disloyalty' first hand.


Side note: Of course, strength is an important asset for a leader. However, a vision that inspires people to work together is more important. Different visions appeal to different people, and a stable Kingdom should pick their goals wisely to disinterest likely powermongers who destablize things, and appeal to good RPers, and people who will work hard (and become or remain strong), and maintain goals that don't inherently create enemies.

Fun debate though.

Zurkiba
02-05-2003, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by sageofthehalo



Umm we havnt had a kingdom war since....November...
Originally posted by boukon_malisous {Today}
hehe, thank you infinite, but we are not done with Zormite. War will be on Saturday against Zormite

sageofthehalo
02-05-2003, 04:58 AM
I said "since".....I am soooo not having an illiterate king.

Kaimetsu
02-05-2003, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by Googi
Sounds like you're making it out to be like You vs. Kaimetsu.

Hey, wait a second. Pocket protectors? I can kill people with my bare hands too :(

Zurkiba
02-05-2003, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by sageofthehalo
I said "since".....I am soooo not having an illiterate king.
And I'm proving that you cant go for a long time without war.