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Pir
06-19-2002, 02:04 AM
I have come across a dilema. we are making the shied usable with pretty much all weapons. but there is a problem with the attacks that use two hands. my idea was to make it so the shield is on the player's back, but there is no time to show another gani of the player putting the shield on the back and such.

so, should it just dissappear or just appear on the player's back?

Ghost Pirate
06-19-2002, 02:05 AM
Oh yes go ahead and post this in main and not in 2002 suggestions

_0AfTeRsHoCk0_
06-19-2002, 02:05 AM
Well, having it just appear on his back sucks :(
There has to be the exact same gani when you draw your sword that puts the shield on your back.

Spark910
06-19-2002, 02:06 AM
Thats on NW! =( (Annoyed Another Idea Used)
Hmm Well If you dont got time for Gani then the answer is just on back,

Pir
06-19-2002, 02:07 AM
ghostie, a mod can move it if neccasary.


see, thats the problem, just appearing on the back would look dumb, i could make it so he through it you throw it on the ground, but you'd have to pick it up after each two handed attack

Pir
06-19-2002, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by Spark910
Thats on NW! =( (Annoyed Another Idea Used)
Hmm Well If you dont got time for Gani then the answer is just on back,

1) Didn't know
2) Shields dont fit in pockets so where else would it go?

Ghost Pirate
06-19-2002, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by Pir


1) Didn't know
2) Shields dont fit in pockets so where else would it go?


They fit in bottomless bags

how can a full sized axe fit in a pocket?
or sword for that matter?

DragonX2
06-19-2002, 02:14 AM
I would like my sword to be at my side in a sheath (sp?) and my shield on my back.

Pir
06-19-2002, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by Ghost Pirate



They fit in bottomless bags

how can a full sized axe fit in a pocket?
or sword for that matter?

we're working on it, soon they wont be bottomless. and im going to talk to stefan about quivers, sheathes, etc etc

feivel
06-19-2002, 02:17 AM
You mean two handed sword attacks,
simple,
someone carrying a shield will not use two handed sword attack unless they manually throw there shield away,
someone without a shield will be able too,
why do you think Samurai do two handed sword attacks,
they dont have shield, they have armor.

Pir
06-19-2002, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by feivel
You mean two handed sword attacks,
simple,
someone carrying a shield will not use two handed sword attack unless they manually throw there shield away,
someone without a shield will be able too,
why do you think Samurai do two handed sword attacks,
they dont have shield, they have armor.

yeah but people dont want to loose their shields just to do a stronger attack

Ghost Pirate
06-19-2002, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by Pir


yeah but people dont want to loose their shields just to do a stronger attack


A eye for a eye!

Pir
06-19-2002, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by Ghost Pirate



A eye for a eye!

i like to keep my eyes, and teeth.

DragonX2
06-19-2002, 03:24 AM
The chests in buildings should be usable by the players. Let us open them and put our items in there and you can make different kinds of locks that can break (harder locks can be made but with more material) and you need like a certain type of weapon to destroy it. A wooden lock could be broken with any weapon, metal with swords, a diamond with ice arrows or something, etc. So we can put stuff away and not carry so much weight around, like it? XD

Pir
06-19-2002, 03:35 AM
i like it, therer'd be massive theivery and complaining, but people woud get over it.

BlKnight
06-19-2002, 04:03 AM
Don't mke shields availible for all weapons! That'd be stupid, just amke the two handed weapons and stuff better. I mean who ever heard of a dagger and a shield or something?

Or at least make like the shield that up 25% of your endurance.

Tyhm
06-19-2002, 04:24 AM
I like the bottomless bags, I just think they need to actually slow you down. That way you can have heavy and slow merchants and blacksmiths guarded by knights in cumbersome armor verses light and nimble thieves who have nothing, and therefore nothing to lose...

DragonX2
06-19-2002, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
I like the bottomless bags, I just think they need to actually slow you down. That way you can have heavy and slow merchants and blacksmiths guarded by knights in cumbersome armor verses light and nimble thieves who have nothing, and therefore nothing to lose...

You don't like my idea though :(

Neonight
06-19-2002, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by Spark910
Thats on NW! =( (Annoyed Another Idea Used)
Hmm Well If you dont got time for Gani then the answer is just on back,


You don't work on NewWorld, do you?


Besides, that's kind of like saying "!! YOU BREATHED! YOU STOLE MY IDEA TO LIVE!"

Ghost Pirate
06-19-2002, 05:24 AM
Originally posted by Neonight



You don't work on NewWorld, do you?


Besides, that's kind of like saying "!! YOU BREATHED! YOU STOLE MY IDEA TO LIVE!"


he must really be trying

the sad thing is

How do people get these ideas?
because they are most of the time already there...in the real world

Its like going on one game and saying
OMFG YOU STOLE MY SWORD IDEA
OMFG YOU STOLE MY IDEA OF ARMOR
OMFG YOU STOLE MY IDEA OF HAVING IDEAS! aswell

Neonight
06-19-2002, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by Ghost Pirate



he must really be trying

the sad thing is

How do people get these ideas?
because they are most of the time already there...in the real world

Its like going on one game and saying
OMFG YOU STOLE MY SWORD IDEA
OMFG YOU STOLE MY IDEA OF ARMOR
OMFG YOU STOLE MY IDEA OF HAVING IDEAS!


Is that not what I just said?

Ghost Pirate
06-19-2002, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by Neonight



Is that not what I just said?

No you didn't smuggle bunny =)

You said real life

I said games

=)

We can just say we had the same idea =X


I also wanted to add more examples

Pir
06-19-2002, 06:29 AM
i like bottomless bags its fun, and we are having a wieght system :-P dont worry

and i've decided not to make all the weapons useable with the shields, i just gotta ask stefan.

haunter
06-19-2002, 06:57 AM
I think there should be an Item storage system, like a trunk or something. except it's seperate for each person, so no one can steal from you trunk, and as for two handed attacks, If you have a shield, you can't do them, simple as that.

BlKnight
06-19-2002, 08:24 AM
Same with dagger, make it take up both hands (though obviously not weilded with two hands) but in turn make them stronger than swords so they can actually be used for assassination.

Tyhm
06-20-2002, 12:40 AM
I'd prefer Daggers Akimbo. As has already been successfully argued, a bigger sword moves slower and does more damage - unless you're living in some bizzarre hypothetical-world where every dagger hit goes directly through your heart and every sword hit glances off your shoulder.

Pir
06-20-2002, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
I'd prefer Daggers Akimbo. As has already been successfully argued, a bigger sword moves slower and does more damage - unless you're living in some bizzarre hypothetical-world where every dagger hit goes directly through your heart and every sword hit glances off your shoulder.

same here, not hard to make the ganis, or script the attacks

BlKnight
06-20-2002, 03:46 AM
Daggers Akimo?

Oh and yes Thymme that magical world where all posined daggers hit through the heart shoudl abotu right. Since you ca use shields with swords. It would be pretty stupid to have daggers do little damage and not allow shields. And having them do more damage is more practical than letting them use a shield.

Tyhm
06-20-2002, 04:28 AM
Nee. They can't do more damage - they should be cheaper, or faster, or (my preference) level faster than swords. A newbie strike with a dagger is weaker than a newbie strike with a sword (don't bring a knife to a swordfight), but in the hands of a master assassin, you're lucky to survive the first attack

BlKnight
06-20-2002, 05:00 AM
Well I am ok with this if there can be posinos only for daggers. Maybe they could be really expensive so only a assassination of dukes or kings or herectic rebel leaders would warrant it.

Also dagger are different than knives! Knives are maybe 6'' right? While daggers can be anywhere from 12 to 18''.

Tyhm
06-20-2002, 05:42 AM
Um, no...a dagger that's a foot and a half long is called a Short Sword.

BlKnight
06-20-2002, 06:37 AM
Umm no...swords were pretty damn long Tyhm....a short sword would maybe be three feat or more. A knife is around 6 inches maybe. A tanto is a sgort dagger maybe 8-10 inches or more. A dagger is a dagger...whic are pretty long...I've never seen a dagger at my dojo or at museums (not only oriental museums, lots from many time peroids and places) that was less than a foot a a few inches...although I have seen them as small as 11' in websites.

haunter
06-20-2002, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by BlKnight
Umm no...swords were pretty damn long Tyhm....a short sword would maybe be three feat or more. A knife is around 6 inches maybe. A tanto is a sgort dagger maybe 8-10 inches or more. A dagger is a dagger...whic are pretty long...I've never seen a dagger at my dojo or at museums (not only oriental museums, lots from many time peroids and places) that was less than a foot a a few inches...although I have seen them as small as 11' in websites.

I have a knife in my kitchen that's like 3". Does that mean it's not a knife?

Pir
06-20-2002, 07:18 AM
why the hell does it matter? me stefan or er1c pick the names....not you guys

screw all the scientific historic mumbo jumbo ;)

haunter
06-20-2002, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Pir
why the hell does it matter? me stefan or er1c pick the names....not you guys

screw all the scientific historic mumbo jumbo ;)

Call it a... Harrypoterroxsharpthing

Tyhm
06-20-2002, 09:31 PM
WHAT THE HELL? 11 foot swords?!?

Yeah, your average sword is 3-4 foot, your average short sword is 1.5-2, counting blade length here. If our daggers are too short to be daggers, then call them knives and have done with - daggers just sound better. You can't possibly expect me to believe that the Nail Dagger is a foot long...

Pir
06-20-2002, 09:42 PM
in graal size doesnt matter, blknight or whatever should stop trying to make everything too realistic.

BlKnight
06-21-2002, 03:42 AM
Tell that to Tyhm than too. He said that it was unrealistic that daggers do more damage than they do now. I said it isn't and supproted it with real life examples. Please read all the messages Pir if you must comment on a matter that in no way affects the actual stuff that happens on the server.

Tyhm
06-21-2002, 04:19 AM
Um, no you didn't dude...you said that a stab through the heart with a poisoned dagger wielded by an expert assassin would do more damage than a clumsy sword swing, which I agree, but it's not even remotely a fair comparison.

A slash with a normal sword verses a slash with a normal dagger, the normal sword does more damage.
A stab with a normal sword verses a stab with a normal dagger, the normal sword does more damage.

If you refuse to make fair comparisons, your arguments are null and void.

BlKnight
06-21-2002, 04:55 AM
The current thing I am debating is that you as well are trying to argue my suggestions using real life examples (ie. swords in real life do more damage than daggers) while Pir told only me to stop doing so.

Pir
06-21-2002, 06:51 AM
why the crap does it matter. im going to make 2 new weapons, The BLKnight Machine Gun and The Tyhm Bazooka, karate will do more damage than both. please shut up

haunter
06-21-2002, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Pir
why the crap does it matter. im going to make 2 new weapons, The BLKnight Machine Gun and The Tyhm Bazooka, karate will do more damage than both. please shut up

What about my Harrypoterroxomgsupersharpthing??

BlKnight
06-21-2002, 07:47 AM
It's a public forum Pir, we can argue about pointless topics if we feel like it. You posted this thread to get information on a idea you decided not to go ahead with, and now is but a free discussion thread, so I don't see why you are annoyed by these messages.

Tyhm
06-21-2002, 11:24 AM
A compromise -
as these are Diamond daggers, it makes sense they would be harder, sharper, and more damaging than Steel swords. However, I will not admit that a diamond dagger would do more damage than a diamond sword, and still think they should add diamond swords and metal daggers - probably the metal dagger should be the absolute cheapest and easiest weapon in the game to make, rivaled only by Karate - 1 blade and 0 gold gets you a Simple Dagger.

BlKnight
06-22-2002, 12:06 AM
Fine. Diamond daggers are stronger (a bit) than regular swords. And faster. But the regular swords have a longer range as they do now and ovbiously can be used with a shield. The diamond swords are stronger than diamond daggers, but you can't use a shield with them........agreed?

Tyhm
06-22-2002, 12:13 AM
Sure. If diamond swords are ever made of course, they'll probably work with shields just on account of because that's the way the system works...
but Daggers are essentially light, short blades. Making them perfect candidates for akimbo weapons - it makes more sense to have a dagger in either hand than a sword in either hand, I suppose, as much as I'd like to fight with two axes and all that. ^___^

haunter
06-22-2002, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
Sure. If diamond swords are ever made of course, they'll probably work with shields just on account of because that's the way the system works...
but Daggers are essentially light, short blades. Making them perfect candidates for akimbo weapons - it makes more sense to have a dagger in either hand than a sword in either hand, I suppose, as much as I'd like to fight with two axes and all that. ^___^

DUEL FRYING PANS! BWAHAHA! *PING* *PING*!

BlKnight
06-22-2002, 03:45 AM
Thats no fair then Tyhm. That means daggers are weaker than swords and diamond daggers are weaker than diamond swords. It's way too unbalanced. if your idea works.

Sword Advantages-power
-range
-ability to use shield

Dagger Advantages:-speed

It's unfair to have to sacrifice power range and ability to use shield just for a faster weapon.

Here is a final comprimise: both are equal in damage.

That way you can choose range and shield use or speed but both do same damage.

Tyhm
06-22-2002, 05:03 AM
Swords are more expensive, and speed matters. Plus there's no guarantee there will ever be diamond swords. Plus a master with a metal dagger should be able to do more damage than a newbie with a diamond sword - level should affect damage, not just accuracy.

BlKnight
06-22-2002, 05:13 AM
Pretend that we are talking about axes (just to get the dagger and sword thing away) would you think that a weak axe with short range that uses both arms but is faster is equal to a strong long range and one handed axe that is slower?

Tyhm
06-22-2002, 05:19 AM
If the smaller axe does half the damage and has twice the speed, heck yeah! Double the chance of hitting with at least one of them!

BlKnight
06-22-2002, 05:34 AM
Fine, make the dagger more accurate...makes sense since when you're clsoe enough to be able to use it you'd be sure enough to hit (unless it's blocked).

Finnaly we have the whole daggers and sword thing settled....took us what? 3 pages?

Ok next topic, accuracy should increase by leveling not power. I meaa how do you get the weapon doing more damage the more you use it? Here is an example.....I take a baseball bat and start htting people with it, after a while it's easier to hit the pople, but the actual bat doesn't do anymore damage...at the msot your strength increases not the weapons.

haunter
06-22-2002, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by BlKnight
Fine, make the dagger more accurate...makes sense since when you're clsoe enough to be able to use it you'd be sure enough to hit (unless it's blocked).

Finnaly we have the whole daggers and sword thing settled....took us what? 3 pages?

Ok next topic, accuracy should increase by leveling not power. I meaa how do you get the weapon doing more damage the more you use it? Here is an example.....I take a baseball bat and start htting people with it, after a while it's easier to hit the pople, but the actual bat doesn't do anymore damage...at the msot your strength increases not the weapons.

I think the weapon command in a RP menu refers to your experiance with that weapon. So you would be more accurate and be able to give more damage with that weapon.

Tyhm
06-22-2002, 06:37 AM
Your skill with the weapon increases. As your skill increases you go from missing and the occasional hit to hitting and the occasional Hard Hit to Hard-Hitting and the occasional Critical Blow.

My point is that if you match fighters, one with a sword and shield against one with a dagger, the person with the sword and shield will and should win by virtue of they're a freaking tank. You gotta be damn good with a dagger to win in a fair fight, or fight dirty/use stealth somehow

BlKnight
06-22-2002, 07:22 AM
Ok I was planning to psot a bunch of arguemenst to that but I thinkw e should drop that subject and go on to bigger and better arguements.

Tyhm
06-22-2002, 07:42 AM
*shrugs* If you say so. I don't really see how one could safely argue that in a fair fight, a newbie with a metal dagger would defeat (or even stand a chance against) a newbie with a shield and sword.

Oh, but here's an idea. Hold Dagger+Away+Facing opponent's back - attack to the throat, guaranteed hit for big damage. The tricky part is sneaking up behind someone...Since you can't use the dagger to defend, it's a valid "combo" move...
If you could charge it too, like hold away, then release to attack, you could do one-hit kills with the dagger...but I imagine you'd have to be really good to be an assassin.

BlKnight
06-22-2002, 07:55 AM
Yeah or practice gaining the victims trust. How about you have to hold the combo for 30 seconds (but they can't move) so if there is a guard there or whatever that can hit you the count restarts.

Whatever a newbie with a dagger should be wrose off than a newbie with a sword and shield but an expert with a dagger who knows how to manouver etc should stand equal to a master with a sword and shield. Whatever leveling way or whatever you want to have it.

Tyhm
06-22-2002, 09:28 PM
Hangon...so a master with a metal dagger verses a master who's a fargin' tank, metal sword and shield, the master with the dagger ties?

I still say that'd have to come down to how the fight plays out. Certainly, if the master with the dagger gets the jump on the master with the sword and shield, and nimbly runs behind and backstabs repeatedly, the dagger master would win...but if it's a head-on encounter in Mines2, I mean come on, it's just a bloodbath.

One of the reasons I want Daggers Akimbo is that you can get double damage that way. If a dagger does 2/3 the damage of a sword of the same materials, and you go in with a dagger in either hand against a guy with a sword and a shield, you'll do 1/3 more damage than he will - and faster - but with basically no defense. If you go in with a dagger you're sacrificing all defense for offense and speed - you need to be able to kill them quickly and get out of there before you get killed. The weapon makes the strategy.

BlKnight
06-23-2002, 12:05 AM
Well yes, if the dagger and sword and shield guy went face to face and started swinging the dagger user should fail. But if used properly and ran around too fast for the swordsmen there should be a chance of the dagger user winning.