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darkriders_p2p
05-02-2002, 05:27 AM
I guess it would be nice to start a thread for ideas on what the nations are, and what they will do.
1.I'll start, are the nations gunna be a guild tag thing you can use like Dustari?
2.what type of nations will there be? THERE HAS TO BE ZORMITE OR ZORMITE RELATED NATION FOR US FISHIES!
3.will nations get anything special?

Tyhm
05-02-2002, 05:51 AM
1) Not quite. If I could figure out guildtag scripting maybe, but since Classic has no NPCServ probably not.
2) Zorbi (Ceres) Nation will exist. There are 10 in all.
3) Yup.
Graal Nation - Shield (defends against all attacks from that direction) - Spin 2 (throw your sword afterwards) - 90 AP Min
Ninji Nation - Counter (immediately attack anyone who hits you with their sword), Parry (deflect sword blows outside spar rooms) - 80 AP Min
Ceres/Zorbi - Whirlpool (widerange water attack) - Regen in water - 70 AP Min
Lunaris - Lunaris Blast (spaceships drop bombs on the map) - Revive where you died - 60 AP Min
Rag narok - Dragoon Jump (rushing sword attack) - Strafe (constantly face your opponent) - 50 AP Min (Rag narok was a PKer. ^_^)
Gaia - Something to do with turning arrows into items, I think... - deflect arrows - 40 AP Min (might make it 50 Max and give them a PK weapon)
Sardon - Osmosis (steal MP from players) - 2x MP Regen - 30 AP Min (might make it 40 max and/or swap with Gaia)Babord - Steal (knock a player's gelats all over the place) - AntiSteal - 30 AP Max
Vampire - Bite (steal a player's heart) - Vampspeed (dash across a level in a second, inside or at night) - 20 AP Max
Lizardon - Baddy Form - Other baddies won't attack - 10 AP Max

Feedback is appreciated. Cries of "THAT'S STUPID!" will be ignored - I'm primarily concerned with the balance issues. Goes to figure the low AP races would need better PK Weapons since they can't heal...
There's gonna be castles configured for Nation battles and stuff, so it'll be neat, you'll see.

freddyfox
05-02-2002, 06:51 AM
I think I'll be playing classic a lot more if there's a lizardon race.

Tyhm
05-02-2002, 06:59 AM
*makes a note to upload a screenshot*

Yeah, I got it so you can select almost every baddy skin ever uploaded. Excepting, of course, the spiders and frogs, and some lousy ones like the blue Antago baddy and the Starcon Lava baddy.

darkriders_p2p
05-02-2002, 08:17 AM
so technically the only thing that would have ANY point would be Lizardons, for us PKers.AP Limits are about the lamest things since NuclearTreeFrog =\
But really, you should give some bonuses to the PKers (even though you don't like us).PK beer would be nice although you hate the idea of it, but something along the lines of it.
Fishies should get increased swimming powers, and should be able to gain ap a tiny bit faster in water, that would be leet.
And so the shield would stop normal hits like sword?
And fish are PKers too, remember that ^_^

Tyhm
05-02-2002, 09:51 AM
Can't gain AP on free servers through scripting, shield blocks EVERYTHING that comes from that direction, and you might like Vampire better.

Questa
05-02-2002, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
Can't gain AP on free servers through scripting, shield blocks EVERYTHING that comes from that direction, and you might like Vampire better.
I don't play on Classic, but I like what Tyhm does for it, :)

darkriders_p2p
05-02-2002, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
Can't gain AP on free servers through scripting, shield blocks EVERYTHING that comes from that direction, and you might like Vampire better.
I should have re-read that, but Vamps =\
speeding is gunna be fun because its will own

freddyfox
05-02-2002, 10:56 AM
Question: For changing nations, do I, say, have to have 10 AP or lower to become a lizardon? Or is that the amount that I'll stay at?

darkriders_p2p
05-02-2002, 11:30 AM
lol, he means that you pick the nation, u stick with it, and thats the AP you have to have for the certain thing you have to work, so Lizardons 10 ap rule wouldbe, they won't attack u until under 10 ap :O

Qwert616
05-02-2002, 12:38 PM
Wow, I may start playing Classic a lot more.

Brad
05-03-2002, 12:35 AM
Sardon sounds fun :]

Tyhm
05-03-2002, 04:56 AM
As it stands you have to maintain that IP range to stay in the nation...I dunno though, under 10 AP could be tricky. Over 90's not that hard, you just don't kill anybody directly...since you have a defensive weapon, you just try to blockade them basically...erm...unless they leapfrog...

Maybe I should make it you need X AP to join? ^^;

freddyfox
05-03-2002, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
Maybe I should make it you need X AP to join? ^^;

Sounds good. Just make it so that the player's AP doesn't go above 10 AP or 20 AP or whatever.

Tyhm
05-03-2002, 08:03 AM
Can't. NPCs can't affect playerap on freeservers.

Valder
05-03-2002, 11:20 AM
Ninji sounds interesting as well as Lizerdon. Can't wait Tyhm <3

SaijinGohan
05-04-2002, 01:58 AM
Hmm so many cool choices!

Zolrieg
05-05-2002, 03:41 PM
you never cease to amaze me Tyhm, good job!

sounds a lot like my "Region" system in a way, but a lot different and unique, oh well, I'm just rambling and ranting now...

I'm going to bed..... zZzZzzzZzz...........

Tyhm
05-19-2002, 02:17 PM
I've been doing a lot of testing on it. So far, Lizardons are unswordable in their baddy forms, Vampires generate their own hearts every time they drain someone who can't be hit, Thieves are insanely irritating, Gaias get a cool mass-driver bow now that makes radial explosions, the Zorbi weapon ices everyone but lags too much, Lunaris' attack, while impressive, is too easy to dodge, the Dragoons seem to be destined to be the most popular with their incredible sparring powers, and it's hard to defend the Ninji or Graal nations without losing so much AP that they kick you out...gotta work on that.
Bugs aside, anybody got ideas on the AP issue? I can't lock it within the national bounds...I can't have Knights PKing and Lizardon Saints...

Terazel Tenjin
05-19-2002, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Tyhm
I've been doing a lot of testing on it. So far, Lizardons are unswordable in their baddy forms, Vampires generate their own hearts every time they drain someone who can't be hit, Thieves are insanely irritating, Gaias get a cool mass-driver bow now that makes radial explosions, the Zorbi weapon ices everyone but lags too much, Lunaris' attack, while impressive, is too easy to dodge, the Dragoons seem to be destined to be the most popular with their incredible sparring powers, and it's hard to defend the Ninji or Graal nations without losing so much AP that they kick you out...gotta work on that.
Bugs aside, anybody got ideas on the AP issue? I can't lock it within the national bounds...I can't have Knights PKing and Lizardon Saints...

Judgement is still bugged (doesn't do the amount of hearts damage you said it would do), but stick with it. I still think it sucks as passive. Give Lizardons some perks for killing people and highly encourage it (maybe fight to be elder...?). Rag nation's jump attack actually works? Didn't the last time I tried it (yeah yeah, months ago). Since I'll still pro-Graal Knights, I say make some sort of sword throw attack or sword offense (like effect magic) that works like judgement but with a wider range of influence. I have a gani saved up for it ;)

albus777
05-20-2002, 12:54 AM
Here's a screenshot of when Tyhm was testing.

darkriders_p2p
05-20-2002, 10:15 AM
Minoc was using the NPCs and attacking ppl today =\
and kills don't go up with the NPCs, but deaths do.

Tyhm
05-20-2002, 10:33 AM
*makes a note to kick Minoc in the nuts for messing with his stuff*

Terazel Tenjin
05-20-2002, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
*makes a note to kick Minoc in the nuts for messing with his stuff*

Wow, that guy has a lot of that stuff in his GP account...

So wait, he was messing around with this stuff instead of staying on a bit longer to catch hackers? Hmm. Typical. *snitches to Lyndzey*

Terazel Tenjin
05-20-2002, 11:29 AM
Hah! Check his Nation in profile the next time you see him! Huzzah.

Raziel
05-21-2002, 11:01 AM
hes Gaia. hey i have a question: once ur in a nation ur in it for the rest of ur acct life? or can you reset nation with ur acct?

Tyhm
05-21-2002, 01:31 PM
You can quit one nation to join another, and you're booted when you leave the AP Range

Minoc
05-21-2002, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Terazel Tenjin


Wow, that guy has a lot of that stuff in his GP account...

So wait, he was messing around with this stuff instead of staying on a bit longer to catch hackers? Hmm. Typical. *snitches to Lyndzey*
I always make random checks on people, lately there are almost no hackers though, and when people are not pming me for help, I sometimes just check some NPCs :\
Btw when I first tried it I didn't know Gaia Shot hits people when they are paused :|

Spanko
05-21-2002, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by Tyhm
As it stands you have to maintain that IP range to stay in the nation...I dunno though, under 10 AP could be tricky. Over 90's not that hard, you just don't kill anybody directly...since you have a defensive weapon, you just try to blockade them basically...erm...unless they leapfrog...

Maybe I should make it you need X AP to join? ^^; Just do the AP ranges somewhat differently, EG you could make the required limits different for joining then it is to maintain. (So you can only become a lizardon with less then 10 AP, but once you're one you only have to stay under 30, that kind of stuff)

Terazel Tenjin
05-22-2002, 06:57 AM
Further testing suggests that the AP isn't going to work efficiently...

I can't think of anything for Lizardons besides some perks such as healing a heart everytime you slay someone with a certain AP or get some AP drop no matter who you kill, but for Graal Knights for example, should have some sort of handicap going against people with 40 AP and above. Maybe you CAN'T attack someone with 40 AP and above if they are in a good alignment Nation.

Currently, you get booted out of Graal Knights if you accidentally kill a bystander with the sword and other weapons, so that leaves you only PKing people with low AP (in theory; I didn't do that). The lizardon healing thing (already integrated) works, but it's a bit unbalanced.

Tyhm
05-22-2002, 11:33 AM
1) Assuming I could even do it, what if there's a Graal verses Ninji/Dragoon war?
2) Maybe it should just be Lizardon healing in beds?
3) What's everyone else think of the strict AP limits to join, 30 AP leeway before you're booted?

albus777
05-22-2002, 11:38 AM
I really don't like the ap limit, because what if nations were to go to war? I don't know how it works, but would that mean you would get booted?

Bortlad
05-22-2002, 11:57 AM
I don't like the AP limit that makes you get booted... cause today i went from 100 ap to 0 ap in a very short period of time....
An AP limit to join is understandable but I know that if there is an AP limit to stay in the nations that I will be kicked out of any nation that i join within a day or 2...

Terazel Tenjin
05-23-2002, 06:34 AM
AP limit makes RP sense, but it should only be at the time you join. After that, you shouldn't be booted out no matter what, unless you do some offensive things or go rogue.

albus777
05-23-2002, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Terazel Tenjin
AP limit makes RP sense, but it should only be at the time you join. After that, you shouldn't be booted out no matter what, unless you do some offensive things or go rogue.
That is perfect.

Bortlad
05-23-2002, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Terazel Tenjin
AP limit makes RP sense, but it should only be at the time you join. After that, you shouldn't be booted out no matter what, unless you do some offensive things or go rogue.

I completely agree, but if Tyhm still wants the AP to play more of a role, make it so that you can only use the nations NPCs if you are within the AP limit...

Tyhm
05-23-2002, 02:53 PM
You already can only use the Nation Skill in AP Range...the Nation Weapon works regardless.

Yeah, I'll take off the postjoining requirement, that should help.

Minoc
05-23-2002, 04:34 PM
But make it that AP will drop if someone kills with Gaia Shot.
It will be annoying if people with gold names in Gaia nation will go everywhere and kill people =\

Tyhm
05-24-2002, 04:16 AM
Gaia shot drains magic FAST...I don't think it's gonna be that big an issue.

BBflat
05-24-2002, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Minoc
But make it that AP will drop if someone kills with Gaia Shot.
It will be annoying if people with gold names in Gaia nation will go everywhere and kill people =\
Gah. How many times does it have to be stated you can't mess with AP?

Minoc
05-25-2002, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by BBflat

Gah. How many times does it have to be stated you can't mess with AP?
I used the Gaia Shot =\

Tyhm
05-26-2002, 03:43 AM
Which is funny in an annoying sort of way, as I'm certain you weren't invited to test my stuff. :grrr:

Minoc
05-26-2002, 04:03 AM
=\ I didn't know it was wrong, I just added all NPCs.
But now it's gone and I deleted it from the other GPs I showed that =\

DarkCloud_PK
05-27-2002, 12:19 AM
Hmm, I see we have hats there now...
Perhaps we could use these hats to show seniority.
Example, you get "blank" hat after being in the Nation for 12 hours, and this one for 24, and only the edler gets this hat.
That way we could use hats for something other than a decoration(unless it's already that way).

Wow, that idea was half-asked.
I'll think of something better later.

darkriders_p2p
05-27-2002, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by DarkCloud_PK
Hmm, I see we have hats there now...
Perhaps we could use these hats to show seniority.
Example, you get "blank" hat after being in the Nation for 12 hours, and this one for 24, and only the edler gets this hat.
That way we could use hats for something other than a decoration(unless it's already that way).

Wow, that idea was half-asked.
I'll think of something better later.
OR u can give hats away for hours, like 1000 hours you get all the hats, because I now got 1000 hours :P

But really, Staff having hats is sad, release it for everyone :(

albus777
05-27-2002, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by darkriders_p2p

OR u can give hats away for hours, like 1000 hours you get all the hats, because I now got 1000 hours :P

But really, Staff having hats is sad, release it for everyone :(
WAIT FOR NATIONS

Tyhm
05-27-2002, 06:27 AM
Been thinking about that.

Any staffers who have the hats and are not on the testing squad will be summarily executed for crimes against me. And yes Minoc, I am looking at you.

DarkCloud_PK
05-27-2002, 08:57 AM
Hopefully those executions will be public and I won't be executed ;)

Anyway, are we stuck with the usual hats or can Classic procude their own? I'd hate to see Babord go with just a monocle.

Tyhm
05-27-2002, 08:59 AM
I guess we can make our own, but I mean, what is a thief hat? They don't really have hats...they're thieves...

DarkCloud_PK
05-27-2002, 09:07 AM
...could give them some Pirate Hats and Eye Patches, Pirates are Theives in a way, and we have Lord Chimp in Babord with all his Pirates, fits the theme.
Bandana could work as well.

Minoc
05-27-2002, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Tyhm
Been thinking about that.

Any staffers who have the hats and are not on the testing squad will be summarily executed for crimes against me. And yes Minoc, I am looking at you.
I never had the hats XD

Tyhm
05-27-2002, 02:37 PM
M'kay, I guess Pirate and Thieves works better than Pirates and Lizardons.

Vikings too?

And what do I give the Dragoons, besides the two Dragoon Helmets?

Spanko
05-27-2002, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Tyhm
M'kay, I guess Pirate and Thieves works better than Pirates and Lizardons.

Vikings too?

And what do I give the Dragoons, besides the two Dragoon Helmets? If you're going for Vikings you should (let someone) make one of those horned helmets.
Dragoons is harder to think of though. :/

DarkCloud_PK
05-27-2002, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Tyhm
M'kay, I guess Pirate and Thieves works better than Pirates and Lizardons.

Vikings too?

And what do I give the Dragoons, besides the two Dragoon Helmets?

I'll go through there and give it a look.
Might as well check out the other Nation's hats as well, as long as I'm there.

Tyhm
05-27-2002, 11:42 PM
There are two viking hats, I currently have it assigned to Lizardon...
the Dragoons only have the two Dragoon helmets and the purple hair wings Saria made...
the Vampires just have sunglasses, because I don't think Vampires really wear hats...the Thieves now have all the pirate hats and the monocle....
the Graal Nation has all the helmets, the Ninji have all the Samurai recolors, but I don't think I can really break those up...

DarkCloud_PK
05-28-2002, 07:11 AM
I'll try making a Dragoon hat from the Dragoon head(head23.png) over the next few days. I'll have to resize it so it fits on most heads though. Then you could just make 5-6 recolors of it.

DarkCloud_PK
05-29-2002, 10:44 AM
Meh, whenever I try coloring it back in by hand, it comes out too low quality.
Tried about 5 times.
Sorry, Tyhm.

Tyhm
05-29-2002, 11:42 AM
Oh well, didn't really want to make Classic hats anyway.

I almost want to give them the winged knight helmet, but I just know that'd get confusing...

Terazel Tenjin
05-29-2002, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Tyhm
Oh well, didn't really want to make Classic hats anyway.

I almost want to give them the winged knight helmet, but I just know that'd get confusing...

Don't focus on hats for Classic. It doesn't even look all that good on the bodies on Classic. If anything, should make it so that permaclothes saves hats, too, or have another permaclothes NPC that's for hats.

Tyhm
05-30-2002, 04:56 AM
Feh, just one more reason for the dragoons and vampires to complain, plus I'd have to double up my nation/hourchecking code in the permaclothes and in the hat setters so you can't save all the hats from another nation, then quit and keep using them...

kevy
05-31-2002, 09:49 AM
woah, i just read threw this whole topic, and am very cornfused...

Tyhm
06-06-2002, 12:48 PM
Zorbis, Thieves and Vampires remain underpowered...no ideas...

DarkCloud_PK
06-06-2002, 11:07 PM
I'll be sending you some new ideas later.

magicbud3344
06-07-2002, 04:20 PM
i would love to be a vampire, and maybe have the ability to drain the hearts of others and add on to your hearts,and you could jump of walls and run on walls ^-^

DarkCloud_PK
06-08-2002, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by magicbud3344
i would love to be a vampire, and maybe have the ability to drain the hearts of others and add on to your hearts,and you could jump of walls and run on walls ^-^

They can already heal by biting others for hearts.
Jump and run on walls?
No.

Terazel Tenjin
06-09-2002, 08:34 AM
Originally posted bymagicbud3344
i would love to be a vampire, and maybe have the ability to drain the hearts of others and add on to your hearts,and you could jump of walls and run on walls ^-^

Infected bite should be implanted...

Vampire speed is pretty close to jumping off of and running on walls. Graal's 2D, ya know.

BLOOD_kane
06-19-2002, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
1) Not quite. If I could figure out guildtag scripting maybe, but since Classic has no NPCServ probably not.
2) Zorbi (Ceres) Nation will exist. There are 10 in all.
3) Yup.
Graal Nation - Shield (defends against all attacks from that direction) - Spin 2 (throw your sword afterwards) - 90 AP Min
Ninji Nation - Counter (immediately attack anyone who hits you with their sword), Parry (deflect sword blows outside spar rooms) - 80 AP Min
Ceres/Zorbi - Whirlpool (widerange water attack) - Regen in water - 70 AP Min
Lunaris - Lunaris Blast (spaceships drop bombs on the map) - Revive where you died - 60 AP Min
Rag narok - Dragoon Jump (rushing sword attack) - Strafe (constantly face your opponent) - 50 AP Min (Rag narok was a PKer. ^_^)
Gaia - Something to do with turning arrows into items, I think... - deflect arrows - 40 AP Min (might make it 50 Max and give them a PK weapon)
Sardon - Osmosis (steal MP from players) - 2x MP Regen - 30 AP Min (might make it 40 max and/or swap with Gaia)Babord - Steal (knock a player's gelats all over the place) - AntiSteal - 30 AP Max
Vampire - Bite (steal a player's heart) - Vampspeed (dash across a level in a second, inside or at night) - 20 AP Max
Lizardon - Baddy Form - Other baddies won't attack - 10 AP Max

Feedback is appreciated. Cries of "THAT'S STUPID!" will be ignored - I'm primarily concerned with the balance issues. Goes to figure the low AP races would need better PK Weapons since they can't heal...
There's gonna be castles configured for Nation battles and stuff, so it'll be neat, you'll see.


Or have one nation thats a combo of all called "Uber Cashmonies Tyhm Delux"....or not :D

DarkCloud_PK
06-20-2002, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by BLOOD_kane



Or have one nation thats a combo of all called "Uber Cashmonies Tyhm Delux"....or not :D

Your Chris Farley sig scares the hell out of me.

mikepg
06-20-2002, 12:49 PM
You guys are actually gonna make a nation called Rag narok? Boy, that's original.

It's also an online game btw.

magicbud3344
06-20-2002, 03:18 PM
NINJAS >:[
where is this vampire nation at?

Tyhm
06-20-2002, 09:34 PM
It was a Graalian first (Rag narok Draconis of Avalon - yeah, it censors if I take out the space), and a mythological context before that.

I could call it the Nation of Avalon, but that lacks the same punch.

The Ventrue people are working on making a Vampire Island, on which they hope the castle will be placed. I guess if it's good enough, it'll go there.

DarkCloud_PK
06-20-2002, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Tyhm
It was a Graalian first (Rag narok Draconis of Avalon - yeah, it censors if I take out the space), and a mythological context before that.

I could call it the Nation of Avalon, but that lacks the same punch.

The Ventrue people are working on making a Vampire Island, on which they hope the castle will be placed. I guess if it's good enough, it'll go there.

Yeah, I heard a lot about Vamp Island, sounds like it's going to take a lot of time and skill to make from what I am told. Hopefully they have both, as the ideas they have sound pretty good.

kevy
06-20-2002, 11:41 PM
maybe theives could cloak for a short period of time?

kevy
06-20-2002, 11:42 PM
or would that not work, from that anti-invisble hack thing?

Terazel Tenjin
06-21-2002, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
It was a Graalian first (Rag narok Draconis of Avalon - yeah, it censors if I take out the space), and a mythological context before that.

I could call it the Nation of Avalon, but that lacks the same punch.

The Ventrue people are working on making a Vampire Island, on which they hope the castle will be placed. I guess if it's good enough, it'll go there.

We all know what [email protected] means from Norse mythology...maybe that isn't the BEST name for the nation. Why not call it Avalon Dragoons or something, like Graal Knights?


Originally posted by DarkCloud_PK
Yeah, I heard a lot about Vamp Island, sounds like it's going to take a lot of time and skill to make from what I am told. Hopefully they have both, as the ideas they have sound pretty good.

From what I've heard about it (I hear something about it these days like every other week from Sting), it sounds like it might be fun script-wise, but some of their scripters have asked me to help out with REAL simple scripts (or ideas on how to script certain things like the coffins in the graveyard) so that doesn't bode well. It will probably be fun to mess around with/in if and when it goes up, but I doubt it will be a graphical masterpiece.

Tyhm
06-21-2002, 11:47 AM
The new Zorbi weapon's fun. Stick someone in a bubble and send them bouncing across the level. You gotta love that.

BLOOD_kane
06-21-2002, 01:40 PM
I miss Rag...he was cool, but now his email doesnt work and I quit that OTHER game we played so i got no contact with him anymore. Wow sounds cool. So where exactly will each Nations capital be? (most are a given but some arent)

albus777
06-21-2002, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Tyhm
The new Zorbi weapon's fun. Stick someone in a bubble and send them bouncing across the level. You gotta love that.
Yea, it's nice. Just annoying when Dark Cloud traps you and keeps using it though ;)

DarkCloud_PK
06-21-2002, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by albus777

Yea, it's nice. Just annoying when Dark Cloud traps you and keeps using it though ;)

That was for one day, shoulda seen all the bubbles Tyhmmie made in Bro's field. I got him back, yes I did.

Tyhm
06-22-2002, 12:37 AM
Graal Nation - Graal Castle
Ninji Nation - Ninji Castle
Lunaris Nation - Southern Lunaris
Ceres Nation - Zorbi Castle
[email protected] Nation - Avalon
Sardon Nation - Under Sardon's Tower
Gaia Nation - Nimda Forest
Babord Nation - undecided, may be removed/replaced
Vampire Nation - Vampire Island if it ever gets finished and approved, Voluran's Mausoleum otherwise
Lizardon Nation - I'm thinking of revising the Lizardon Temple, such that the existing Temple becomes a Castle with certain doors only available to Nation members and baddy-triggered doors set to allow passage of Lizardon Nation members - they're immune to baddies, so they'd be well defended there.

albus777
06-22-2002, 12:40 AM
The Babord nation might be removed completely?

draygin
06-22-2002, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
Zorbis, Thieves and Vampires remain underpowered...no ideas...

Zorbs: maybe swim even in super deep water that you normally cant? Or some sort of water cannon type weapon.

Thieves: Thief npc where you steal like 5g from a person. (had this on providence way back when) Maybe run slightly faster than normaly players. Since a thief would normally be fast. Possibly some sort of invisibility that lasts for a limited time or until you move. Sucha s you're invisible as long as you dont move but when you do you reappear.

Vampires: maybe a morph to turn into a bat and or wolf for a limited time or so?

Also when is all of this set to be released?

albus777
06-22-2002, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by draygin
[B]
Thieves: Thief npc where you steal like 5g from a person. (had this on providence way back when) Maybe run slightly faster than normaly players. Since a thief would normally be fast. Possibly some sort of invisibility that lasts for a limited time or until you move. Sucha s you're invisible as long as you dont move but when you do you reappear.
B]
That is nice and all, but money is nothing on Graal Classic.

Tyhm
06-22-2002, 01:03 AM
Um, yeah...already got a new (and admittedly damn fun) weapon for the Zorbi. Thieves already have a stealing weapon, but as was pointed out, no point to it. Vampire morph is a bit Castlevania, but I might end up doing that anyway.

DarkCloud_PK
06-22-2002, 01:28 AM
Yeah, but I saw Zorbi Bubble causes 0.5 damage now, doesn't that ruin the non-violent aspect?

Babord were meant to be theives, but since money is useless since it rains gold from the sky constantly, thieves have no use on Graal. I gave some ideas to Tyhm and so did Ter about what Babord should be replaced with. There's going to be a vote in the voting booth about what Babord should be replaced with(or get removed). I got some non-violent ideas for both the Ghosts and Gnomes, so I hope one of them wins the vote.

albus777
06-22-2002, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by DarkCloud_PK
Yeah, but I saw Zorbi Bubble causes 0.5 damage now, doesn't that ruin the non-violent aspect?

Babord were meant to be theives, but since money is useless since it rains gold from the sky constantly, thieves have no use on Graal. I gave some ideas to Tyhm and so did Ter about what Babord should be replaced with. There's going to be a vote in the voting booth about what Babord should be replaced with(or get removed). I got some non-violent ideas for both the Ghosts and Gnomes, so I hope one of them wins the vote.
Gnome/ghost nations???? You're kidding, right?

draygin
06-22-2002, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by DarkCloud_PK
Yeah, but I saw Zorbi Bubble causes 0.5 damage now, doesn't that ruin the non-violent aspect?

Babord were meant to be theives, but since money is useless since it rains gold from the sky constantly, thieves have no use on Graal. I gave some ideas to Tyhm and so did Ter about what Babord should be replaced with. There's going to be a vote in the voting booth about what Babord should be replaced with(or get removed). I got some non-violent ideas for both the Ghosts and Gnomes, so I hope one of them wins the vote.

It's not the fact that there is lots of money. It's just being a thief is fun. I mean going around stealing money then running away after you rob some one. One could cause alot of chaos with this. Or cloak until they come by then rob them. Personally even with loads of money I'd still have a hell of a time doing it.

albus777
06-22-2002, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by draygin


It's not the fact that there is lots of money. It's just being a thief is fun. I mean going around stealing money then running away after you rob some one. One could cause alot of chaos with this. Or cloak until they come by then rob them. Personally even with loads of money I'd still have a hell of a time doing it.
It was real fun on Providence cause people would get mad. But, it wouldn't be as fun as you think, people would just laugh at you if you stole their money on classic.

draygin
06-22-2002, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by albus777

It was real fun on Providence cause people would get mad. But, it wouldn't be as fun as you think, people would just laugh at you if you stole their money on classic.

I think they would get pissed make it steal like 100g at a time. Then go rob newbies or something. =D Or just people. It's not alot of money but the fact that some one is stealing a 100g from them over and over would really piss them off I think. I'd even be willing to help make a thief slum base type area if you like.

Tyhm
06-22-2002, 05:11 AM
Somewhat, but I mean, with as many cashhackers as there are, why hoard cash? I can't sell anything because so little of the money is legit...

draygin
06-22-2002, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
Somewhat, but I mean, with as many cashhackers as there are, why hoard cash? I can't sell anything because so little of the money is legit...

That and the black Galat that you pay a 1000G to get and is worth 100,000 that kind of kills any concept of money. Maybe if you could create Scripts to fight hacking like they have on 2k1. Then get rid of the black gelat and reset all accounts. Sure they would scream in protest. But they would get over it and it would give alot of people stuff to do with the new quests. See I would love to have my account reset. But I"m not willing to do it voluntarily because I dont want to lose some of the stuff like my hook shot. If you could get rid of the black galat and a way to minimize hacknig such as if over X amount of money is gathered in x amount of time perhaps jail the person? I mean say if you gain 10000 g in less than a minute then you're obviously hacking. Not sure what can and cant be done with out an npc server scripting. Also maybe make it so trial accounts cant use items at all. That way people wont get on trial accounts to hack then switch back.

Or you could just make the prices out rages until every one on the server spends all the money :p

Tyhm
06-22-2002, 06:41 AM
Black Gralat doesn't show up for everyone, and I can't script antihack measures until Stefan disables the debugger-in-online-mode hack.

Tyhm
06-22-2002, 07:56 AM
Graal - Defense - Check, they have the shield, and the Judgement technique
Ninji - Offense, Swordsmanship - Not really, Ninja Stars are cool but not all that Swordsmanlike. Parry is though.
Zorbi - Peace. Check and check.
Lunaris - Exploration. Not really, the respawning advantage is handy but the nuke strike isn't very explorery for all its coolness.
Dragoon - Sparring, Swordsmanship - Check on both, they got a sword technique and the strafe thing, buuut it's a bit much like Ninji...Strafe was originally theirs....
Sardon - Magic. Check and check.
Gaia - Archery. Check and check.
Vampires - more PKing? - automatically gain health when next to the bleeding, dash across the room, but they need more of a unique identity than cool weapons
Lizardon - PKing and evil - Baddy Form, regeneration and Protection from Baddies, what more could you possibly want? ^_^

Terazel Tenjin
06-22-2002, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by albus777

Gnome/ghost nations???? You're kidding, right?

No. The idea that I came up with for Babord replacement is either pirates (bleh), mercenaries/bounty hunters (based on that hera quest), or wraiths (ghosts, based on the haunted mansion). Trying to keep the theme with the location.

Edit: Could also link the Babord to the asylum, but I am not sure how that would work out...

Terazel Tenjin
06-22-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Tyhm
Graal - Defense - Check, they have the shield, and the Judgement technique
Ninji - Offense, Swordsmanship - Not really, Ninja Stars are cool but not all that Swordsmanlike. Parry is though.
Zorbi - Peace. Check and check.
Lunaris - Exploration. Not really, the respawning advantage is handy but the nuke strike isn't very explorery for all its coolness.
Dragoon - Sparring, Swordsmanship - Check on both, they got a sword technique and the strafe thing, buuut it's a bit much like Ninji...Strafe was originally theirs....
Sardon - Magic. Check and check.
Gaia - Archery. Check and check.
Vampires - more PKing? - automatically gain health when next to the bleeding, dash across the room, but they need more of a unique identity than cool weapons
Lizardon - PKing and evil - Baddy Form, regeneration and Protection from Baddies, what more could you possibly want? ^_^

Lunaris' nuke can be renamed/modified into something more peaceful, like xenopurge or something (wipe out foreign "viruses" for landing?). Dragoon...I still see a problem with the uselessness of the jump attack. Should have some passive advantage/skill on horses (problem is it might be underused or excessively abused when public) and some NPCW like multiple attacks.

Graal Knight's judgement is still mind-bogglingly slow (works smoothly and quickly when someone else uses it, but the whole thing lags down when YOU use it), and I think the blast radius is too large to be fair right now. The light-ring area should be the radius (and the area of safety); it seems to be at least twice that as of now when the attack moves along.

Ninji might need a boost with stars, maybe shoot it in all four directions or something.

DarkCloud_PK
06-22-2002, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by Terazel Tenjin


Lunaris' nuke can be renamed/modified into something more peaceful, like xenopurge or something (wipe out foreign "viruses" for landing?). Dragoon...I still see a problem with the uselessness of the jump attack. Should have some passive advantage/skill on horses (problem is it might be underused or excessively abused when public) and some NPCW like multiple attacks.

Graal Knight's judgement is still mind-bogglingly slow (works smoothly and quickly when someone else uses it, but the whole thing lags down when YOU use it), and I think the blast radius is too large to be fair right now. The light-ring area should be the radius (and the area of safety); it seems to be at least twice that as of now when the attack moves along.

Ninji might need a boost with stars, maybe shoot it in all four directions or something.

Yeah, Lunaris's Nuke doesn't fit in with what they are.

As for the Ninjis, Ter, I don't think we want to build off the stars idea, instead, try to create some kind of skill with their sword. Their skills don't lie in throwing stars, they are swordsmen.

DarkCloud_PK
06-22-2002, 11:51 PM
Oh yeah, Vamp is way too overpowered in most cases.
In AC the healing wasn't too excessive, wasn't too many dead people to heal off of, but I'll try it on a busy day and see how it fairs. The part I'm worried about is biting anywhere else, when fighting, you can easily just go near the person and hit D a few times to heal to full as most people are injured when fighting. It's even more excessive when youhave a group of people fighting.

Terazel Tenjin
06-23-2002, 03:27 AM
I still say the bite deal should be enhanced and tweaked: infected bite that does heals the user 0.5 everytime he does 0.5 damage on someone via using bite attack, and freeze user for however many seconds that's fair everytime he heals one heart or so. And maybe limit the power so that you can't kill people with 3 hearts or lower with infected bite.

I think my xenopurge idea would work. Basically same NPCW, renamed, remove the fire, and focus on make more of those radiation rings (green)...

Ninji, bleh. There are good ideas for ninji attacks on 2k1 and 2k2, but we don't want them *****ing to us about how we copied their ideas...some martial arts are always a good idea for ninja types, and if not, then ways to attack multiple enemies at ease (if used on one person, triple the damage or consistency). Knights and Dragoons should have more of those swordsmen skills...

And Dragoon, well, your ideas would be better than mine. Dragoon strafe is fun and possibly useful, but fact is, it's still an NPCW...making it completely passive would be worst, and there aren't many things I can think of for Dragoons since I'm not really familiar with dragoon history (realisitcally).

Tyhm
06-23-2002, 03:28 AM
The bite weapon is messed up, I gotta replace that with something else.

Terazel Tenjin
06-23-2002, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
The bite weapon is messed up, I gotta replace that with something else.

It would suck if that was completely removed...that's a trademark. You can also do something such as lure (suck targeted players toward user, freezetime on victims)

Tyhm
06-23-2002, 03:35 AM
Lure would be tricky.
Bite has gone passive.

DarkCloud_PK
06-23-2002, 06:27 AM
Tried it out on a busy day.
I was nearly invincible with it, you couldn't kill anyone with this, until I got jailed by a MasterStorm for abusing my"powers", idiot GPs*sigh*. Just imagine all PKs being invincible like that, eventually people would get pissed.
Some kind of restrictions need to be placed on the Vamp Nation.
Perhaps:
Freeze for some time while biting, Shouldn't just be run around near some players and tap the D button to refill.
Vampires usually slowly decay, so put that into the Nation, have them like very slowly lose health over a period of time.

Terazel Tenjin
06-23-2002, 07:39 AM
Should specifically state that you are testing it out so the GPs would stop *****ing left and right about you "abusing" your powers.

By true vampiric legends, they are only weaker in sunlight; they don't torch up and turn into dust when they touch sunlight. Driving a stake through their hearts only immobilizes them, not kill them outright.

Making bite nighttime only would be good, but it would also be sort of useless. So passive is good, and maybe they get less health during daytime and do less damage. Lure is another classic vampire trick, either that or feral claws or some sort of speed frenzy.

Tyhm
06-23-2002, 12:34 PM
Grrr, DAMMIT YOU TWO PAY ATTENTION!

THE BITE NPCW IS BUSTED! YES! IT IS TOO POWERFUL! THAT IS WHY I AM ASKING WHAT TO REPLACE IT WITH! BITING HAS BEEN MADE AUTOMATIC WHEN NEAR A CORPSE OR A WOUNDED PLAYER!

Just for that, I'm deleting the bite NPCW outright.

DarkCloud_PK
06-23-2002, 10:47 PM
Err, yeah, should have seen that.
Oh well, I'll get working on thinking something up for them if Ter's lure doesn't work after I get done with hiring.
Too bad Stefan never publishes news.

SuperThug312
06-24-2002, 01:05 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by draygin
[B]

"and the black Galat that you pay a 1000G to get and is worth 100,000 that kind of kills any concept of money. Maybe if you could create Scripts to fight hacking like they have on 2k1. Then get rid of the black gelat and reset all accounts. Sure they would scream in protest. But they would get over it and it would give alot of people stuff to do with the new quests."

Well that would really really suck, i meen what about all the people with gani's they earned from spars??
I think it would be really wrong to do!The good players of graal that worked hard to get items like lv 3 sword and magic should not be punished over a few losers that cant do things for the selves. I agree with the x,y thingy though it should be done.
Why not just clear everybodys Bank account? It would be less harsh than having everything deleted period.

freddyfox
06-24-2002, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Tyhm
Vampires - more PKing? - automatically gain health when next to the bleeding, dash across the room, but they need more of a unique identity than cool weapons


When it's day, they should move slowly outdoors and have a weaker attack power. When it's night or they're indoors, they should move quickly and have more attack power.

Terazel Tenjin
06-24-2002, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by freddyfox


When it's day, they should move slowly outdoors and have a weaker attack power. When it's night or they're indoors, they should move quickly and have more attack power.

Won't work with the multination system (you can join more than one nation, and you keep all passive powers you have gained from the nations you have joined; nation weapons you get to keep if you are currently in that nation). Everyone that have joined the vampire nation will be unjustly slow during day and overly speedy at night, while people who haven't remain the same (obviously).

Dash (passive, if it's still up) doesn't work well anyway. We tested it in Angel Clan and that was way too much speed, plus the gani refused to surface at the time of activation. Anything with speed should be reconsidered. If bite has gone passive and has a much smaller radius, then that's fine. Lure might be a decent weapon if it WORKS, and maybe some sort of weapon type called Mist would be interesting if that works...(hides from anyone that's not currently in the vamp nation, protects them from some attacks, maybe?)

The main problems right now are with Ceres (underpowered), Dragoons (unless attack), and Babord nation (if it goes Wraith instead of Gnomes after the vote).

draygin
06-24-2002, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by SuperThug312

Well that would really really suck, i meen what about all the people with gani's they earned from spars??
I think it would be really wrong to do!The good players of graal that worked hard to get items like lv 3 sword and magic should not be punished over a few losers that cant do things for the selves. I agree with the x,y thingy though it should be done.
Why not just clear everybodys Bank account? It would be less harsh than having everything deleted period.

I hadnt considered just erasing the bank accounts. That would be a good idea if you could get rid of the hacking first.

Also for dragoons what about a lance? For horses you attack side ways when riding. Make a lance that goes straight out infront so you can run people over.

Com013
08-30-2002, 09:00 PM
Now with the species, are Nations going to get weapons?
magic advantages/disadvantages?

Which weapons would they get?


Graal - Full Shield?
Gaia - Some powerfull bow, but what exactly?
Faster, like a laser gun (Just a green line drawn immediatly between you and your target)? Or a bow like on G2002, so you can shoot over your allies? (I already made this).
Dragoons/Rag - Strife? (will be very powerfull).
Ninji - Some sword thingy, but what is it going to be exactly?
Badland - Some scroll to stop baddies attacking you?

DarkCloud_PK
08-30-2002, 11:06 PM
Currently:

They do supposedly have Magic advantages/disadvantages, though I never see them.

Graal:Judgement(Damages PKs, Heals saints) and The Shield that blocks anything from the direction it is facing.
Ninjis:Throwing stars that do damage according to HP and they parry attacks.
Rag/Avalon isn't there anymore.
Sardon gets magic redriecting and osmose.
Badlands have baddies avoid them when they have low AP, they have something else, but it doesn't work.
Gaia has the bow where you target around with the arrow keys and you fire and the ability to take some projectilies that hit them and refire them. The bow would be nicer though if you could target with the mouse and fire with the mouse button.

Com013
08-31-2002, 12:30 AM
I could try to make a bow where you use the mouse to target...I hope Tyhm'll accept it.