PDA

View Full Version : PNGs are allowed!


Admins
05-10-2001, 10:04 PM
Please stop spamming about
no to use png... Graal's preffered
file format is png/mng, all screenshots
are saved in those formats.
I know that IE is too dumb to support
this quite good format, may be they
have a contract with the gif-copyright owners?
If you want to view pngs inside the browser
you can download one of the many
plugins for this

Admins
05-10-2001, 10:08 PM
Oh forgot to say:
IE can display pngs, but only a special
subtype of it (24bit like Graal screenshots)
and it internally thinks it cannot display it
when you click on an URL ending with .png

IceHawk
05-10-2001, 11:42 PM
Stupid IE.


Do you know where you can download these plugins?

WhoopA
05-11-2001, 12:21 AM
Quicktime 4 supports display of pngs, I know that much.

freddyfox
05-11-2001, 01:34 AM
I believe if you click on a PNG link, then wait a bit, it takes you to a website where you can download the plugin.

fugitive316
05-11-2001, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by Stefan
Please stop spamming about
no to use png... Graal's preffered
file format is png/mng, all screenshots
are saved in those formats.
I know that IE is too dumb to support
this quite good format, may be they
have a contract with the gif-copyright owners?
If you want to view pngs inside the browser
you can download one of the many
plugins for this

I save all my graphic work in .png format :)

I have IE and see .png's fine, without any extra plug-ins *shrugs*

Admins
05-11-2001, 03:13 AM
What IE version?
Png is much better than gif,
the compression is much better
and you can use 24bit colors -
if you compare a Graal screenshot
that takes 60k (when having
many lights on it) with a JPEG
then you will see the difference
I always must reduce the screenshots
to gif/jpeg before uploading them
as screenshot of the day :-(

I guess gifs are still popular because
there are good editors and
animated pngs (mng) are not supported
by many programs

fugitive316
05-11-2001, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by Stefan
What IE version?


Version 5

KJS
05-11-2001, 04:25 AM
I have IE v5.5
and pngs load perfectly fine for me...

mabie people need to update there windows things for internet explore or something.

You can do that by clicking the update windows button (I find it when I clicke the start menu then on top of programs folder there is a thing called update windows)

I do that every once and a while...

But I also have Window ME
that might have some type of plug in built into it for internet explore

Rekad
05-11-2001, 04:49 AM
Ive noticed something, if pngs are soo much better(which I know) why arent all graal graphics in .png format?

Tyhm
05-11-2001, 06:57 AM
Note: PNGs work everywhere but on these vB forums. Gifs used to have the same exact problem. It's something to do with MIME types, I think.

fugitive316
05-11-2001, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by Tyhm
Note: PNGs work everywhere but on these vB forums

I see .png images perfectly on this board.

Termina_GP4
05-11-2001, 07:32 AM
well, i cant. also the character maker. i cannot see it and i have IE 5, i used to be able to. then a got new cpu with Windows ME (the old cpu also had IE 5)

Admins
05-11-2001, 08:00 AM
Rekad don't ask me why people still use
gif, I am only doing graphics in png

Rekad
05-11-2001, 08:40 AM
I just realized why people use people on graal use .gif instead of .png. its because most of em are americans, an as you know, America is one of few countries that havent went to the Metric System. Americans use the system of mesurement that is all screwed up, it takes five minutes to convert acres into miles, while the metric system has a handy set of prefixes and unit names to make converting measurements really easy, yet 12 inches to a foot and 5,212 feet make 1 mile. We Americans must do things the hard and repetive and slower way!

fugitive316
05-11-2001, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Rekad
We Americans must do things the hard and repetive and slower way!

YES!

*does the "pledge of alliegence" *

05-11-2001, 09:12 AM
I use PNGs for graphics on graal now. I didn't used to.

Rekad
05-11-2001, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by TrueHeaT
I use PNGs for graphics on graal now. I didn't used to. did you move to canada? dont do that! its not the american way!

KJS
05-11-2001, 10:04 AM
I started to make all my grafics into pngs when I first found out that graal supported it. I knew that pngs were better then gifs

Lugie
05-11-2001, 11:36 AM
yes, hard way... i cant see MOST .png either...

also there are 5,280 feet in a mile, not 5,212 ;-)

Rekad
05-11-2001, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Lugie
yes, hard way... i cant see MOST .png either...

also there are 5,280 feet in a mile, not 5,212 ;-) yes, but Im American, and American schools are the 14th best school in the world... CUBA HAS A BETTER EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM!!!!!!!

05-11-2001, 11:44 PM
I was born in Canada ...

galen
05-12-2001, 02:45 AM
Bah! I've never liked PNG/MNG encoding. My experience with animated GIFS and Netscapes semi-priporitory animated JPEG format is that MNG is usually 10-30%+ larger. I can _always_ get non-animated GIF/JPEG smaller than PNG. Granted, when 24bit is required (which it usually isn't) JPEG is what I'd use and a level 5-7 compression which does cause jpeg artifacting. JPEG was build for photographs. A photograph at 300+dip even with level 5 compression the artifacting isn't bad. Now a screen shot as 96dbi (which is a screen shot) is will cause great jpeg artifacting so I'd use GIF w/ LZH compression. Graal very rarly has more than 256 colors on screen at any given time even when 3d lighting effects are used. When saving a GIF, the image editor can adjust the local palete so you can still see all (or 90%+) of the colors used in the 3d effects. After this you can use a GIF compression utility to remove all extra colors in the palete that aren't used, thus making the file even smaller. Other than on photographs, I don't need to see 16 bloody million colors in prestine quality.

PNG sucks !

Admins
05-12-2001, 03:48 AM
Galen are you ill?
Almost all Graal2001 screenshot have more
than 256 colors, you can see that by
looking at the gralats/bombs/arrows count
at the top of the screenshots converted to gif
(its most of the time white instead of gray shaded
like in Graal)
PNGs are always smaller than gif,
you have much better compression and
the color table can be smaller, so also saving
file size for smaller images.

When using the gif2mng program included in
Graal to convert an animated gif to mng then
it is sometimes bigger than the original gif
because Graal doesn't support all the
features of png/mng. In mng you can
have animated JPEGs, special effects
and file reducing methods.

For things like screenshots you will
always get better results with png/mng than
using gif/jpeg because the quality is
100% and the file size is smaller.
Saying that pngs sucks is really stupid. If
you don't work with real life images
(landscapes, faces etc.) then png/mng
always beats gif/jpeg

Rekad
05-12-2001, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by TrueHeaT
I was born in Canada ... THAT explains it! you probably measure in meters too, or as the canadians spell it "metres"

galen
05-12-2001, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by Stefan
Galen are you ill?

Eh, maybe I am. I will attempt to prove my accuations. I'll post a followup Monday.

MoonAngel
05-12-2001, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Rekad
THAT explains it! you probably measure in meters too, or as the canadians spell it "metres"

1- Meters is in english, Metres is in french without the è and only Québécois spells it like that in canada, since its a french word =P

2- Everyone makes typo errors =P

3- I use Netscape Navigator, i probably need to update, but all pngs are sent as downloads, so i cant see them on-screen, but Microsoft sux so i dont use IE

4- Will there ever be a Linux version of Graal?! = |

galen
05-12-2001, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by MoonAngel
Will there ever be a Linux version of Graal?! = |

I hear Graal runs under WHINE

CrazedMerlin
05-12-2001, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Rekad
I just realized why people use people on graal use .gif instead of .png. its because most of em are americans, an as you know, America is one of few countries that havent went to the Metric System. Americans use the system of mesurement that is all screwed up, it takes five minutes to convert acres into miles, while the metric system has a handy set of prefixes and unit names to make converting measurements really easy, yet 12 inches to a foot and 5,212 feet make 1 mile. We Americans must do things the hard and repetive and slower way!
*idea* stfu

Zulithe
05-12-2001, 07:04 PM
I can't see .png on this forum.

I have IE 5.5, Windows 98SE, and Quicktime 5.01 installed, if I click a link to a .png file on this forum it will just display a red x image.

However, if I download the file and then open it from Windows Explorer, it will open the .png file in IE and I can see it fine.

So... I'm really not sure WHY... but I noticed many people have this problem and I wish there was some walkaround...

Zulithe
05-12-2001, 07:13 PM
here is a little experiment...

for those of you who can't view .png images on this forum click this link:

http://palmzlib.sourceforge.net/images/dir.html

it is a site with 10 or so .png images, I can see them all fine.

So why can I see them there... but not here? There must be a problem with this forum. Maybe this forum needs to be updated to the latest build.

IceHawk
05-13-2001, 02:38 AM
When I click on a .png in this forum, I see a little page with a red/blue diamond in the center.

MoonAngel
05-13-2001, 06:30 AM
same thing for me = \ damn windowz .. it sux! =P

click here

http://www.512productions.com/windowssucks/index.html

Admins
05-14-2001, 04:02 PM
Hmmm I see it correctly
May be we only need to
edit the mime type list for this
http server

unixmad
05-14-2001, 08:24 PM
Testing PNG:)

http://palmzlib.sourceforge.net/images/plogo.png

FatherDante
05-14-2001, 08:33 PM
I've never had trouble seeing .pngs.

I like them better.

Rekad
05-15-2001, 03:55 AM
yeah, Ive never updated my computer and I see .pngs perfect

Zulithe
05-15-2001, 04:07 AM
If someone uses tags to imbed a .png image into a message I can see it fine

but if they post it as a file attachment... I can't click on it to view it. I need to download it by right-clicking and selecting "save as" and then reopen it.

O.o

galen
05-16-2001, 05:15 AM
A default Quicktime install jacks up IE's PNG display. Go to QT's control panel and unassoicate PNG with QT.

funnylinkwantsbomys
05-16-2001, 11:47 AM
1 word paint shop pro

galen
05-18-2001, 02:49 PM
As proof, thought several days late, here (http://www.terraweb.net/galen/imgtest.zip) are my test image formats.

NightLord
05-20-2001, 05:04 AM
I didn't like pngs at first either but after using them for a short while I started to like them better. I now use png for all my grahpics.

That zip galen posted doesn't work for me.

Zulithe
05-22-2001, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by galen
As proof, thought several days late, here (http://www.terraweb.net/galen/imgtest.zip) are my test image formats. I can view all of the files in that zip using IE, accept the last one (tif) which opens for me in Image Viewer.

And quicktime is not associated with my .png files, IE is :D

05-22-2001, 05:19 AM
I can view .pngs, just not attached .pngs. It shows up as some little diamond.

aran_lesai
05-22-2001, 08:05 PM
I like the quality of png/mng, but I don't like using it (yet) because it is a fairly new format, and does not have universal support yet.
Free (good) gif editors are still hard to find. I have one that supports png, but it can't animate either gif or png, and it can't set transparency in png, but for gif, trans. can be set to any rgb value. Since most of my images use transparency, I have no choice but to use gif for now, unless someone knows of a png/mng editor/animator that can set transparency and doesn't cost anything (shareware is fine). Please give me a link if you have one.
I have IE 5.5, no quicktime, and I can see embedded pngs just fine, but linked ones are still a problem. For now, I am running Win 95 first release, *cough cough m$ sucks* until I finish building my new comp. *cough cough Linux rocks* I kinda agree that u don't need 856 bazillion colors in one pic, but I do like better image quality. Oh, well, I guess I'll just have to wait till png/mng are more supported. Same thing happened when gif was new, so it is only a matter of time (hopefully short :D)