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iniquitus
02-18-2002, 10:42 AM
Greetings again all,

I'm now on my brand-spankin' new Apple iBook and it's really gorgeous, I never thought I'd buy a Mac a few years ago, but with a laptop like this, how can I refuse.

I'm wondering. Is there any chance for MacOS X and Linux versions of Graal in the near future? I e-mailed Stefan about this over a year ago and he responded to me that one was in testing and that it would be released soon. It's been a year, I'm still here, we're still waiting. So what are the chances of a MacOS X client being released for people like moi? I'll beta test, and de-bug if help is needed. Let me know Stefan! :D

I'm assuming that with 2002 it's not gona happen, but I can always dream can't I? ;)

Sir Kwang
02-18-2002, 10:49 AM
slimchance =P

iniquitus
02-18-2002, 10:51 AM
Tell me about it... I just wish he'd tell me "no. there will never be one!" instead of saying "working on it." for the last 3 years...

revalation
02-18-2002, 11:15 AM
there is a linux version.

Domini
02-18-2002, 11:22 AM
Wouldn't Mac OS X and Linux have the same code? They both are Unix(mad).

iniquitus
02-19-2002, 10:22 AM
I've yet to see a Linux *Client* version of Graal, I know the *Server* runs on Linux.

freddyfox
02-19-2002, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by iniquitus
I've yet to see a Linux *Client* version of Graal

It hasn't been released publically.

Echos
02-19-2002, 10:33 AM
You mean to tell me, that besides schools, people actually buy macs of their own free will?! :confused: :confused: :confused:

Frolic_RC2
02-19-2002, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Echos
You mean to tell me, that besides schools, people actually buy macs of their own free will?! :confused: :confused: :confused:

Sad, sad thought.

iniquitus
02-19-2002, 11:04 AM
iBooks run Debian beautifuly. I initialy used mac's because it was a cheap way to get a PPC system (if you buy form IBM they start at 5000$) PPC is by far a beter processor then x86, the Apple G3 is 64bit, and the G4 is 128bit, and while a g4 is only at 1Ghz in clockspeed right now it still beats the most powerful x86 chip on the market for MUCH MUCH less. When I got this new iBook I noticed that Darwin/MacOS X was actualy starting to be a decent OS, it's lightning fast, beautiful to look at, has amazing performance, and is just plain awesome.

I'm a network admin for a small hospitial here in northern maine (us). I manage over 500 Dell PC's every single day. I've placed a boycot on XP for performance problems (the OS itself uses up almost 512mb of ram without doing anything) as well as SERIOUS security problems. I've released patches to Microsoft for XP and they didn't even acknoledge there was a security problem (this was when the betas were released). so if it's a choice between Windows XP (since 2000 sucks for anything but business, and even there it has no real worth in enterprise computing) and MacOS X, it's MacOS X hands down.

You should keep in mind that you cant really judge a computer form your experience with it from a school, most schools have older, out of date computers, and these computers also have alot of kids abuseing them every day; moreover, they are usaly setup by a complete ***** who has no idea what she/he is doing, and in general, most people will have a bad experience with ANY school computer, I've done work for 3 schools that have PC's and 4 that have Mac's, the Mac's can take the beating of student use ALOT beter then the PC's can, and the PC's are a nightmare in a school environment, especialy when students know how to do amature stuff like editing batch files, or editing registry entries. or even get administrator and teacher passwords from stupid people who let windows create a local .pwl file.

Trust me, it's alot diferent to own one. Look at any Mac owner, and see if they are complaing, look at any PC owner and you'll never hear then end of their complaints about Microsoft and windows. Maybe there is a reason for this.

Personaly, I like jumping on my new Mac when I get in from work, it's nice to work on something that has style and personality to it instead of working with Windows day-in/day-out. I have 2linux boxes siting here besides me, 1 openbsd, 1 freebsd, and one running gnu/hurd (if you even know what that is.) trust me, when it comes to operating systems, i'm not filed under the "ignorance is bliss" catigory. I have no problem recomending a Mac to anyone who wants a good, solid, powerful computer. And I hope to see Graal ported to MacOS X so I can start playing again since I removed windows from my network ;-)

ZanderX
02-19-2002, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by iniquitus
PPC is by far a beter processor then x86, the Apple G3 is 64bit, and the G4 is 128bit, and while a g4 is only at 1Ghz in clockspeed right now it still beats the most powerful x86 chip on the market for MUCH MUCH less.

Ha. Haha. Hahaha. I honestly don't know where you learned how to examine or even know anything about processors, because the G3 is certainly not 64bit, neither is the G4.

Originally posted by iniquitus
I'm a network admin for a small hospitial here in northern maine (us). I manage over 500 Dell PC's every single day. I've placed a boycot on XP for performance problems (the OS itself uses up almost 512mb of ram without doing anything) as well as SERIOUS security problems. I've released patches to Microsoft for XP and they didn't even acknoledge there was a security problem (this was when the betas were released). so if it's a choice between Windows XP (since 2000 sucks for anything but business, and even there it has no real worth in enterprise computing) and MacOS X, it's MacOS X hands down.

Good for you, Network Admin guy! Sadly, XP does not eat up 512mb of RAM. If you were using BUILD 0001, maybe. I don't know, but it certainly does not eat up 512MB of ANY kind of RAM on ANY kind of system.

XP has few, if any, security problems. IE6 and MSN Messenger do, but not XP itself. It's widely regarded as one of the most security operating systems ever.

2000 does not suck for anything other than business, you bleeding idiot. I don't know, I guess considering I used it for months as a desktop OS for home use, and so do my friends, I guess it REALLY sucks even though it's amazingly stable and compatible with stuff.


Originally posted by iniquitus
Trust me, it's alot diferent to own one. Look at any Mac owner, and see if they are complaing, look at any PC owner and you'll never hear then end of their complaints about Microsoft and windows. Maybe there is a reason for this.

I know Mac owners who complain.

I'm a PC owner, I rarely ever complain about Microsoft or Windows, neither do a lot of my technophile friends.

All in all, my verdicts on you are as follows:

Human Being: 8/10
Graalian: 7/10
Computer Literate Individual: 2/10

Crono Illusion
02-19-2002, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Echos
You mean to tell me, that besides schools, people actually buy macs of their own free will?! :confused: :confused: :confused:

Yes, people do. I highly recommend you play around with a Titanium G4 Powerbook or one of those nifty G3 iBooks running OS X for a few hours before insulting them again.

The chance of Graal on either of those systems is slim, though.

However, there's a lot of factually incorrect information in the latest post by inquitis.

Also, I know a Mac owner. He has a first generation iMac. He despises his computer, and wants to smash it as soon as he gets something that actually works (either a G4, or an 800/900mhz PIII).

Torankusu
02-19-2002, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by ZanderX
Computer Literate Individual: 2/10
:(
You have a thing against them?

ZanderX
02-19-2002, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Torankusu

:(
You have a thing against them?

No no no.

He, as a computer literate individual, rates 2/10.

He doesn't know anything.

Torankusu
02-19-2002, 11:25 AM
hey me neither.

My Windows XP thing is not installing. I got 128 ram, and took off my printer and the other things it said, but it still won't install.

r_u_f_u_s
02-19-2002, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by iniquitus
Greetings again all,

I'm now on my brand-spankin' new Apple iBook and it's really gorgeous, I never thought I'd buy a Mac a few years ago, but with a laptop like this, how can I refuse.

I'm wondering. Is there any chance for MacOS X and Linux versions of Graal in the near future? I e-mailed Stefan about this over a year ago and he responded to me that one was in testing and that it would be released soon. It's been a year, I'm still here, we're still waiting. So what are the chances of a MacOS X client being released for people like moi? I'll beta test, and de-bug if help is needed. Let me know Stefan! :D

I'm assuming that with 2002 it's not gona happen, but I can always dream can't I? ;)

Would it be possible to run Graal through the Virtual PC program? If not, then that stinks for the Mac users... I heard Stefan say a while ago that they would try it eventually, it would take a lot of work though.

Crono Illusion
02-19-2002, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by r_u_f_u_s


Would it be possible to run Graal through the Virtual PC program? If not, then that stinks for the Mac users... I heard Stefan say a while ago that they would try it eventually, it would take a lot of work though.

He could try that, although I don't know how fast it'd be.

Spanko
02-19-2002, 08:32 PM
I'd advise trying to find and run a windows emulator, though I'm not sure if there is one out there which is compatible with Graal.

Dillard
02-19-2002, 11:19 PM
You should keep in mind that you cant really judge a computer form your experience with it from a school, most schools have older, out of date computers, and these computers also have alot of kids abuseing them every day; moreover, they are usaly setup by a complete ***** who has no idea what she/he is doing, and in general, most people will have a bad experience with ANY school computer, I've done work for 3 schools that have PC's and 4 that have Mac's, the Mac's can take the beating of student use ALOT beter then the PC's can, and the PC's are a nightmare in a school environment, especialy when students know how to do amature stuff like editing batch files, or editing registry entries. or even get administrator and teacher passwords from stupid people who let windows create a local .pwl file.

In our school, we have a Tech Department that handles the setup of all of our computers, wich most teachers cannot do. We are connected to a LAN that connects all our our schools together and that is firewalled and has the most up to date Norton Antivirus scan. I was once told by them that they would never buy a Mac unless Hell froze over. From my own experience, i personally think they are pieces of crap and hard to use. I would much rather buy an ibm compatable pc because, honestly, can u walk into a local walmart and look at the shelf and instantly find software for a Macintosh? Prolly not, not unless u look.

Crono Illusion
02-20-2002, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by Dillard


In our school, we have a Tech Department that handles the setup of all of our computers, wich most teachers cannot do. We are connected to a LAN that connects all our our schools together and that is firewalled and has the most up to date Norton Antivirus scan. I was once told by them that they would never buy a Mac unless Hell froze over. From my own experience, i personally think they are pieces of crap and hard to use. I would much rather buy an ibm compatable pc because, honestly, can u walk into a local walmart and look at the shelf and instantly find software for a Macintosh? Prolly not, not unless u look.

Fun facts:
1. only COMPUSA and the Apple Store are the retail chains that still carry any mac products.
2. they aren't crap, you just haven't toyed around with a decent one for a few hours.
3. they wouldn't buy a Mac because they obviously dislike them. enough said.

Crono Illusion
02-20-2002, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by Spanko
I'd advise trying to find and run a windows emulator, though I'm not sure if there is one out there which is compatible with Graal.

VirtualPC with Windows 98SE or 2000 should work. It'll be slow, but it will work.

iniquitus
02-23-2002, 03:54 AM
Sorry, I've been consumed at the latest production I'm puting togeather...

Fact #1: Apple uses alot of the best hardware out there, alot of IBM. They use PowerPC for their processors, again by IBM, the G3 and G4 are dirivitives of the PowerPC 7xx series (i belive)... the G3 is in fact a 64bit chip, and the G4 is infact a 128bit chip.

Anyone who says WindowsXP doesn't have security problems and doesnt eat close to 512mb of ram is a *****.

First off, on my first examination of XP it only took me a week to figure out how to fully comprimise any XP system remotely. (I do security consulting)

You don't THINK XP consumes close to 512mb of ram because XP does a nifty trick with Virtuial Memory, meaning it can run on as little as 128MB RAM, but it's very, very, slow compared to and XP system with 512MB ram. Don't belive Microsoft, run a memory benchmarking program and see for yourself. Windows 2000 ate over 200MB RAM without running applications.

Apple's are beautiful machines. Try one before you diss it.

As for the school that has a (wow) "network" and a (doubble wow) firewall, almost every school does. Because of the saleries that the Education field offers, anyone who knows what they are really doing isn't waisting their time at a school. Firewalls are easy to setup nowadays, ytou can buy appliances that have easy instructions. Unfortinately, these are usualy peices of crap, and are, in most cases, useless after an idoit gets their hands on them. A firewall is only one component of many for network security. I can eaisly penitrate their internet router, spoof my IP, and get inside the network with little trouble if this school is like most BAD network setups I've seen.

Argueing with people who don't know what they are talking about is fun, but a waste of time. So I'll move on to another topic.

Running a PC emulator is not an acceptable alternitive, I might as well just install windows a one of my PC's again. MacOS X is rapidly gaining popularity. Allthough I disagree with a few parts of the APSL (Apple Public Source Licence) I still think Apple is making a good effort at a decent, user-friendly, unix based OS. Darwin is coming along nicely for it's age.

Nothing out there, is more sleek and stylish then a Mac, they are gorgeous, and the most powerful, home user, computers avible today. The price is very competive as well.

Anyone who says they hate Mac is just saying that because they dont understand how to use it properly, and are intimidated by them. So they make up excuesses to dislike them without ever having really used one... You usualy see this in pompus 'administrators' who like to talk over everyones head to make it SEEM like they know what they're talking about, when in reality, most of them can't even do simple IP classless subnetting...

I think it would be nice if Graal was released under the GPL :) *wishful thinking* heh.

It would most likely actualy make Graal extreamly popular, and make it progress faster. Giving more attention to cyberjoures linux, and bringing in more money.

It would also allow people to creat their own graal powered servers, even with this, money wouldn;'t be lost because the Graal team can create much beter levels then someone just trying to setup a server (programers advantage) Just my thought ;-)

Send me the linux source (if it's c) and I'll port it to OS X :)

Crono Illusion
02-23-2002, 06:49 AM
I like Mac OSX, and the new generation of processors. I really do.

However, your statistics on windows 2000 and XP are off. I run Windows 2000 Professional on my 1.33ghz Athlon w/512MB of DDR RAM, and the OS is never using 200 while idle. In the Classic interface, my PII-300 with 128MB of SDRAM runs faster than it did with 2000 in XP.

Also, player-run servers with Cyberjoueuer support won't happen. Ever.

On another note, I highly doubt you can get Graal ported to OSX easily, because of one magic super happy word: DIRECTX.

ZanderX
02-23-2002, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by iniquitus
Sorry, I've been consumed at the latest production I'm puting togeather...

Fact #1: Apple uses alot of the best hardware out there, alot of IBM. They use PowerPC for their processors, again by IBM, the G3 and G4 are dirivitives of the PowerPC 7xx series (i belive)... the G3 is in fact a 64bit chip, and the G4 is infact a 128bit chip.

The G3 is in fact NOT a 64bit processor, and the G4 is certainly not 128, nor is it 64. 64bit processors do not exist for the home computing market. You've already proved your excessive idiocy in that one statement, since 64bit processors are developed, as of right now, exclusively for the server market.

Originally posted by iniquitus

Anyone who says WindowsXP doesn't have security problems and doesnt eat close to 512mb of ram is a *****.

Sorry, you're the ***** in this case. Up until about a month ago, I had 128MB of RAM. Guess what? XP performed at excellent speeds and had no security problems. With the built-in firewall equipped, I was EXTREMELY secure.

Originally posted by iniquitis

First off, on my first examination of XP it only took me a week to figure out how to fully comprimise any XP system remotely. (I do security consulting)

You don't THINK XP consumes close to 512mb of ram because XP does a nifty trick with Virtuial Memory, meaning it can run on as little as 128MB RAM, but it's very, very, slow compared to and XP system with 512MB ram. Don't belive Microsoft, run a memory benchmarking program and see for yourself. Windows 2000 ate over 200MB RAM without running applications.

My GOD. You ARE stupid. You're apparently the best hacker in the world, since DOZENS of security sites have made testaments to XP's security, and I've tested it myself.

I know XP doesn't consume anything NEAR 512MB of RAM. Windows 2000 eats far under 200 megabytes of RAM without running applications. It runs, at the most, maybe 40.

Get a brain, you're not the only intelligent person, and you're not even that smart.

Originally posted by iniquitus
Apple's are beautiful machines. Try one before you diss it.

As for the school that has a (wow) "network" and a (doubble wow) firewall, almost every school does. Because of the saleries that the Education field offers, anyone who knows what they are really doing isn't waisting their time at a school. Firewalls are easy to setup nowadays, ytou can buy appliances that have easy instructions. Unfortinately, these are usualy peices of crap, and are, in most cases, useless after an idoit gets their hands on them. A firewall is only one component of many for network security. I can eaisly penitrate their internet router, spoof my IP, and get inside the network with little trouble if this school is like most BAD network setups I've seen.

Argueing with people who don't know what they are talking about is fun, but a waste of time. So I'll move on to another topic.

Not every school. Come to my school, a TECHNOLOGY school, and you'll see what I mean.

Apples, or if you'd prefer, Macintoshes, are beautiful systems. I use them quite frequently, and whenever I have a chance to snag some time on one that uses OS X, I do.

Originally posted by iniquitus
Nothing out there, is more sleek and stylish then a Mac, they are gorgeous, and the most powerful, home user, computers avible today. The price is very competive as well.

Anyone who says they hate Mac is just saying that because they dont understand how to use it properly, and are intimidated by them. So they make up excuesses to dislike them without ever having really used one... You usualy see this in pompus 'administrators' who like to talk over everyones head to make it SEEM like they know what they're talking about, when in reality, most of them can't even do simple IP classless subnetting...

I bow in front of your idiocy.

Macs are sleek and stylish, yes, perhaps you might even use the term "gorgeous".

Unfortunately, they are not the most powerful home user computer, or if you'd like to be more modern, desktop computer available today. Prices are not competetive at all.

I never said I hated Mac. It's not really hard to use one, unless you're a ***** who grew up with Windows 98 or higher. I've simply been criticizing your immense lack of knowledge.

mrkriton
02-23-2002, 06:56 AM
AHHHHHH TOO MUCH INFORMATION WHY POST LONG LETTERS LIKE YOU WILL WRITE TO SOMEONE YOU REALLY WUV!!!

Also i dunno who said that apples are in school systems. Thats complete doggie doo doo because our school is a complete Windows PC place. Not a mac in sight. And our school server is running on Linux. Also i read some article, quick one about the new Mac and it talked about the ability to run PC games with some sort of program. Downside is i dont know the name. What i suggest is goto a website that works with Mac on D/Ling programs. Like Download.com but i think they only supply Window Programs, hold on..
After a quick check Download.com does have programs for Macs
heres the link
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10005.html?tag=dir

ZanderX
02-23-2002, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by mrkriton
AHHHHHH TOO MUCH INFORMATION WHY POST LONG LETTERS LIKE YOU WILL WRITE TO SOMEONE YOU REALLY WUV!!!

Also i dunno who said that apples are in school systems. Thats complete doggie doo doo because our school is a complete Windows PC place. Not a mac in sight. And our school server is running on Linux. Also i read some article, quick one about the new Mac and it talked about the ability to run PC games with some sort of program. Downside is i dont know the name. What i suggest is goto a website that works with Mac on D/Ling programs. Like Download.com but i think they only supply Window Programs, hold on..
After a quick check Download.com does have programs for Macs
heres the link
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10005.html?tag=dir

Lots of schools still use Macs.

The two other high schools in my district still have a high number of Macs, as do my college and two of the middle schools.

I know of a lot of other schools that use old Macs as well.

Providence_Admin3
02-23-2002, 07:01 AM
My old school used the new macs.

Gorgeous. ;)

Chaos0838
02-23-2002, 07:16 AM
at least u got a laptop

RamiAharonov
02-23-2002, 07:25 AM
Interesting worth-reading conversations on Graal?

A new era has begun?

iniquitus
02-23-2002, 08:48 AM
Do your research, Apple licences the PowerPC arch. from IBM, the same arch. used in Enterprise Systems such as the S/390 or iSeries (Formaly AS/400's) and RS/6000's.

You sound like an idoit trying to act smart and say something dumb like "ONLY SERVERS HAVE 64BIT!!!" there's also the Sun Sparc workstations (64bit btw.) that just got lowered to the $1000 price range. (Too bad there's little apps avaible for Sun.)

Windows does, in fact consume much more Ram than it tells you when you open the "Task Manager", once again a beautiful Microsoft lie.

As for DirectX I am under the assumption that Graal was recently re-writen to do away with it. And since there is a Linux version avaible (or so I'm told) I'm sure THAT isn't using DirectX.

A Firewall is only as secure as the Trusted Interfaces connected to it. I hope the people at your so-called secure network use VPN clients with at LEAST 1024bit 3DES + L2TP + MD5 encryption. I alos hope that your Router is un-detectable as far as the make/modle, because there are exploites for just about every one out there. You school runs a Linux server? I'm impressed, I run Linux on an 2/390 for a mid-sized hospitial. It doesnt take a genious to call up RedHat and have them give you support and get Linux running to do one simple task. Linux has reached a point where it's easy for anyone to use it well. I'd almost go as far as to say it's eaiser then 2000 or NT server. And yes, Linux does out-preform them, lets not forget the *fake benchmarks that Microsoft paid a company to put out saying that NT was faster then Samba.

On XP security, I'll give you a hint. Socket Core Access.
Also see .NET
And lets not forget the thing that almost everyone was vulnerable to these last few weeks SNMP? (Hmm, Apple wasnt on the adviseory list.)
Stick with Microsoft, their Product Activation and Manditory Passport accounts are so convienent for you. I cant wait for Banks to start using Passport, then the REAL fun will begin.

XP seems to have re-writen the TCP/IP stack since 2000, too bad they overlooked some key issues that make us wonder if they even understand how TCP/IP works.

I never said I was a hacker.

I never have, or plan to hack anyone to cause damage, or gain unauthorised access to their systems, the only hacking I do is with writen permision by the owners in the name of security. The work I did on XP was an evaluation to see if we would be using XP at the hospitial, it failed, and we've placed a ban on XP for any node connecting to the network.

For your information when I started using computers Windows 3.1 or 3.11 didn't exsist yet, let alone Windows 95 or Windows 98, I grew up on IBM DOS, and basic. On Atari instead of Netendio. I was sending electronic mail on dial-up BBS's before most people knew what email was. Don't treat me like a child, I may enjoy Graal (hooked since 1.2x) , but I'm not classified in the 12-16 age group.

You want to talk about technology? lets see your certs? You work experience in the field? Your facts?

I spent 3 years building up close to 15 custom PC's a day. I tend to know a thing or two when it comes to hardware. Why don't you go do some reading up, and come see me in 1-2 years.

ZanderX
02-23-2002, 08:52 AM
Due to the fact that I've completely disproved most of your arguments more than once, I've decided to let this round go to Crono. He'll be posting shortly, and defeating your argument as I have done twice.

If necessary, I'll intervene again; I don't find it hard to argue with stupid people, especially the "MICROSOFT SUCKS YOU ****ING *****" type.

iniquitus
02-23-2002, 08:53 AM
Wow. Thats long. If it sounds like I'm trying to attack anyone, I'm not... It probly just sounds that way because I've had a bad day.

Peace, Love, and errr... you know, to all!

iniquitus
02-23-2002, 08:57 AM
Microsoft has problems, so does every OS, it's just that Microsoft seems to have exponentialy more then the others. :rolleyes: Glad you wont put more time and effort into talking crazy-talk :D

ZanderX
02-23-2002, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by iniquitus
Microsoft has problems, so does every OS, it's just that Microsoft seems to have exponentialy more then the others. :rolleyes: Glad you wont put more time and effort into talking crazy-talk :D

Crono will be giving you more "crazy-talk" soon.

Crono Illusion
02-23-2002, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by iniquitus

You sound like an idoit trying to act smart and say something dumb like "ONLY SERVERS HAVE 64BIT!!!" there's also the Sun Sparc workstations (64bit btw.) that just got lowered to the $1000 price range. (Too bad there's little apps avaible for Sun.)

There's still nothing for end users that is 64bit.

Windows does, in fact consume much more Ram than it tells you when you open the "Task Manager", once again a beautiful Microsoft lie.

One screenshot:
http://dustari.org/taskmanager.jpg

As for DirectX I am under the assumption that Graal was recently re-writen to do away with it. And since there is a Linux version avaible (or so I'm told) I'm sure THAT isn't using DirectX.

You assume wrong, and the Linux version is very very limited in features.

A Firewall is only as secure as the Trusted Interfaces connected to it. I hope the people at your so-called secure network use VPN clients with at LEAST 1024bit 3DES + L2TP + MD5 encryption. I alos hope that your Router is un-detectable as far as the make/modle, because there are exploites for just about every one out there. You school runs a Linux server? I'm impressed, I run Linux on an 2/390 for a mid-sized hospitial. It doesnt take a genious to call up RedHat and have them give you support and get Linux running to do one simple task. Linux has reached a point where it's easy for anyone to use it well. I'd almost go as far as to say it's eaiser then 2000 or NT server. And yes, Linux does out-preform them, lets not forget the *fake benchmarks that Microsoft paid a company to put out saying that NT was faster then Samba.

I have Mandrake 8.0 set up on one of my computers. It's the easiest of the easy, I hear. I still don't get it, sorry.


On XP security, I'll give you a hint. Socket Core Access.
Also see .NET
And lets not forget the thing that almost everyone was vulnerable to these last few weeks SNMP? (Hmm, Apple wasnt on the adviseory list.)
Stick with Microsoft, their Product Activation and Manditory Passport accounts are so convienent for you. I cant wait for Banks to start using Passport, then the REAL fun will begin.


That's nice, I haven't used passport at all ever, and I run both Win2K and XP.


For your information when I started using computers Windows 3.1 or 3.11 didn't exsist yet, let alone Windows 95 or Windows 98, I grew up on IBM DOS, and basic. On Atari instead of Netendio. I was sending electronic mail on dial-up BBS's before most people knew what email was. Don't treat me like a child, I may enjoy Graal (hooked since 1.2x) , but I'm not classified in the 12-16 age group.
That's nice.

You want to talk about technology? lets see your certs? You work experience in the field? Your facts?
Kamuii has Microsoft Office certification, and has completed the A28 Computer Repair course.

I spent 3 years building up close to 15 custom PC's a day. I tend to know a thing or two when it comes to hardware. Why don't you go do some reading up, and come see me in 1-2 years.
I'll make a point of staying away from you, and not believing that you built 15 PCs a day.

iniquitus
02-23-2002, 09:42 AM
The PowerPC is a RISC microprocessor developed by IBM and Motorola. The first such chip was the 601, released in 1992. After that, the 603 and 604 series were developed, then 750, also known as the G3, after which came the G4 series. You can check out the whitepapers on the 750's over at: http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/ youself if you don't belive that and while your at it http://www.apple.com/g4/ has some, but not very much, information as well, those are bad links, sorry, I couldn't find the Motorola ones because they re-designed their site, and I don't feel like spending hours finding proff to back up what I say.

Wheather anyone belives me or not doens't change the facts.

I have my MSCE, it's usless. I have no real respect for anyone who has it.
I have my CCIE, witch was a royal pain in the $%% to get, hats off to anyone else who took the time to get that one.
I'm working on my RHCE

My knowledge is mainly in IP networking. I'm attending college in the fall for a CS and Arts major. I used to work at a small 'computer company' and I mean small, the 15 pc's i did build up (thats an average btw, some days it was as low as 3, some as high a 30) I was the only full-timer. Then I worked the next year as a net admin for a small ISP, only 1100something dial-ups at the time I left, (70 something PRI circuts) now, i'm the net admin for a hospitial here. If you really want I can give you my work number, along with the number of the health board in this state so you can call, speak to me, and confirm my exsistance. :rolleyes:

iniquitus
02-23-2002, 09:48 AM
I forgot to mention Sun's 64bit workstation for under 1000$ :
http://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml?catid=60357

ZanderX
02-23-2002, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by iniquitus
I forgot to mention Sun's 64bit workstation for under 1000$ :
http://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml?catid=60357

We were discussing desktop, home-end user computer, not workstations. That is NOT a desktop, home-end user computer.

iniquitus
02-23-2002, 10:08 AM
"There's still nothing for end users that is 64bit. "

a workstation and desktop are the same thing, simpily workstation sounds more profesional, if you use that clasification, Windows 2000 and XP are workstations since they were based off "NT Workstation 4.0" I belive 2000 pro actualy says "NT Workstation 5.0" in the terminal emulator.

Apple is as home-user as it gets, and IBM does, indeed, use 64 and 128bit RISC chips. Keep in mind that RISC in general out preforms IA-86, and Intels new 64 bit chip, along with AMD's are being designed diferently to accomidate the 86 arch. the method IBM and Motorola have chosen however, is the beter method for processing today. It allows itself to be segmentied into seperate 'virtual' processors if you will... OR run in native 64 or 128bit mode. so apple does in fact use 128bit chips (G4) in their new products... why do you think they can release a G4 with only a clock speed of 1GHz and have it benchmark consideribly higher then 1.7GHz chips? The dual 1Ghz G4 PowerMac is definately hard to beat. I've tested one and they are really really fast. (As a referance, I use a popular 3d animation program released by SGI called maya 4, it's used by everyone in the movie industry today (including lucas arts, dreamworks etc.) and is avaible for windows, mac, and linux. GHz wise, mac blows away PC's that are more than twice as fast (GHz) Linux has recently become the OS of choice, becuase it's ends up cheaper just to cluster alot of small linux boxes, then pay for a Mac, Mac comes in second, and SGI comes in third for useage, simply because SGI systems are far too pricy... windows is shunned upon for Maya, and preforms horribly.

For something closer to home, my G3 (64bit) 600MHz has no problem playing a DVD in a window. (Ha. you think... SO? any computer can do that?!) But *I* can actualy drag the window around on my desktop, without any lag (or slowdown) and still see the picture and here the audio just as if it were still... I've only seen this ALMOST accomplished on an Athlon XP 1.7GHz with 512mb ram (i have 256) I say almost because on the PC the audio and video clipped when I dragged the window.

Griffyn
02-23-2002, 10:09 AM
this is all greek to me