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skillmaster19
09-02-2012, 07:49 PM
It would be nice if a modified Graal client that connects to Era iPhone/ Classic iPhone was on steam. There could be the ability ability to purchase gralat packs from your steam wallet.

Every single f2p game I've seen added to steam has had a significant increase in players upon release on steam. One game i played that had only about 100-200 players online at a time increased to 2000-3000 at a time.
Valve(owners of steam) will allow games from indie developers on steam as long as they're fun, so getting Graal on there shouldn't be too difficult. Just be sure to optimize the servers before releasing it on steam :P

The pc servers wouldn't really work out yet because there is still subscription fee, but perhaps when Graal pc goes free to play they may be able to be added later.


Facebook Graal didn't get too many new players because it wasn't listed anywhere easy to see, and because it depended on players sharing it-most people used fake accounts to play Graal rather than their real ones. On steam, there is a whole new releases category, and the current selection of f2p games isn't that large.

Crow
09-02-2012, 08:07 PM
Steam has certain quality requirements. Won't happen.

Hezzy002
09-02-2012, 08:11 PM
Steam has certain quality requirements. Won't happen.

*cough*

http://store.steampowered.com/app/201070/

JesusFreak250
09-02-2012, 08:13 PM
What about this new green light thing?

http://steamcommunity.com/greenlight/

From my understanding players vote games to go on steam, of course you need a lot of votes still.

skillmaster19
09-02-2012, 08:13 PM
Steam has certain quality requirements. Won't happen.
I've seen some pretty awful games on steam.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/200210/?snr=1_200_200_Free+to+Play_tab-NewReleasesFilteredDLC_2

http://store.steampowered.com/app/90530/?snr=1_200_200_Free+to+Play_tab-NewReleasesFilteredDLC_3
this one above has less than 100 players online at any given time(game is only playable online), graal has over 1000.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/70300/

Crono
09-02-2012, 08:32 PM
let's improve graal before trying to roll with the big boys

TheGodAngelo
09-02-2012, 08:36 PM
let's improve graal before trying to roll with the big boys

this

fowlplay4
09-02-2012, 08:37 PM
let's improve graal before trying to roll with the big boys

if only there was monetary encouragement for doing so

Crow
09-02-2012, 08:54 PM
*cough*

http://store.steampowered.com/app/201070/

I honestly wonder how some games got on Steam in the first place.

dude2020
09-02-2012, 09:09 PM
blahblahblahblah

Don't count iOS. We can't connect to those on PC yet.

xXziroXx
09-02-2012, 09:16 PM
as long as they're fun

Graal isn't fun. Classic might change that though.

Don't count iOS. We can't connect to those on PC yet.

Pretty sure the only thing making that impossible, was that iOS used different account system. They don't anymore.

dude2020
09-02-2012, 09:44 PM
Pretty sure the only thing making that impossible, was that iOS used different account system. They don't anymore.I dunno what he's waiting on. I know he wants to push iZone for iOS, Facebook, and client

scriptless
09-02-2012, 10:27 PM
Graal isn't fun. Classic might change that though.

Classic already is fun and it's not even fully released. It's got a high standard of presentation that I expect it to be #1 or #2 PC server. I will eat my shoe, of your choice, if it does not hold a high playercount. :D

skillmaster19
09-02-2012, 10:41 PM
Graal isn't fun. Classic might change that though.



Pretty sure the only thing making that impossible, was that iOS used different account system. They don't anymore.
yes the thousands of people who log onto iClassic and iEra regularly don't play it because it's fun.

dude2020
09-02-2012, 10:48 PM
yes the thousands of people who log onto iClassic and iEra regularly don't play it because it's fun.The iOS servers wouldn't be on Steam.

Tim_Rocks
09-02-2012, 11:25 PM
We'll have to wait till Graal Platinum is released before any of this can happen.

ffcmike
09-02-2012, 11:27 PM
yes the thousands of people who log onto iClassic and iEra regularly don't play it because it's fun.

I wouldn't want to pay $50 to not get raped by observer mode on what has been a UC server either.

TheGodAngelo
09-03-2012, 02:07 AM
steam makes perfect sense for pc graal. it'd be great advertisement.
unfortunately no new players will play pc graal because of observer-mode/archaic subscription policies.

graals got alot of flair for an aspiring developer. the reason i loved it so much was it's lttp style. and then when i found out i can make my own playergraphics i was hooked.

if pc graal adopted the free to play/microtransaction ideas of games like tf2 or even take what the iphone has. graal has the possibility to make a lot of money and get a decent playercount.

Crono
09-03-2012, 02:22 AM
graals got alot of flair for an aspiring developer. the reason i loved it so much was it's lttp style. and then when i found out i can make my own playergraphics i was hooked.


an aspiring developer should be working on better projects, not devoting tons of time for nothing in return

Tim_Rocks
09-03-2012, 03:04 AM
As an aspiring developer on Graal I like to spend my time on the forums posting nonsense.

kia345
09-03-2012, 03:17 AM
I've seen some pretty awful games on steam

Did you seriously just link to Realm of the Mad God and VVVVVV and cite them as "awful games", or is something wrong on my end?

Fulg0reSama
09-03-2012, 03:32 AM
Did you seriously just link to Realm of the Mad God and VVVVVV and cite them as "awful games", or is something wrong on my end?

Nothings wrong, he did mistakeningly link those two games.

He does get credit for Rise of the Immortals though, that is some simple garbage right there.

xXziroXx
09-03-2012, 04:01 AM
*Stefan: well
*Stefan: steam added in-app purchases
*Stefan: and there is a green lantern thing
*Stefan: where people can vote for new games
<censored>: The free games all have in game purchases, maybe you could make a Steam iEra and Steam iClassic and use gralat packs as your in game purchases?
*Stefan: yes
*Stefan: it would also give a reason to finish windows v6 :)
*Stefan: new version should be much faster
<censored>: do i have your permission to add it to the greenlight stefan?
*Stefan: unixmad plans to do it
<censored>: so it is possible to see steam graal?
*Stefan: we can also put it on mac app store
*Stefan: yes can also put pc graal / graalonline playerworlds on it

Woo.

skillmaster19
09-03-2012, 04:10 AM
I wouldn't want to pay $50 to not get raped by observer mode on what has been a UC server either.
you do know steam has support for f2p games right?

Stefan: well
*Stefan: steam added in-app purchases
*Stefan: and there is a green lantern thing
*Stefan: where people can vote for new games
<censored>: The free games all have in game purchases, maybe you could make a Steam iEra and Steam iClassic and use gralat packs as your in game purchases?
*Stefan: yes
*Stefan: it would also give a reason to finish windows v6
*Stefan: new version should be much faster
<censored>: do i have your permission to add it to the greenlight stefan?
*Stefan: unixmad plans to do it
<censored>: so it is possible to see steam graal?
*Stefan: we can also put it on mac app store
*Stefan: yes can also put pc graal / graalonline playerworlds on it

not sure if trolling or real log...

and Rise of immortals isn't that bad, only reason I listed it is the playercount on it is significantly lower than that of Graal.

ffcmike
09-03-2012, 04:14 AM
you do know steam has support for f2p games right?

Which makes your post even less relevant, and that is entirely out of context.

Pro tip: Seeker99 was globally banned for posting that video in your signature.

skillmaster19
09-03-2012, 04:16 AM
Which makes your post even less relevant, and that is entirely out of context.

Pro tip: Seeker99 was globally banned for posting that video in your signature.
wait whats wrong with it? its just a meme that plays part of a song and shows unixmad with bread rofl. Either way I'll remove it... thats insane...

maximus_asinus
09-03-2012, 04:44 AM
post the video, I'll put it in my sig

DustyPorViva
09-03-2012, 04:52 AM
Woo.

Is this a joke or is that really Stefan? If that's really Stefan... wow... the only reason to finish v6 would be to provide it to new players, because **** us all, right?

xXziroXx
09-03-2012, 05:13 AM
Is this a joke or is that really Stefan? If that's really Stefan... wow... the only reason to finish v6 would be to provide it to new players, because **** us all, right?

It's real, he said it on Era iPhone like 30 minutes before I posted it.

cbk1994
09-03-2012, 05:26 AM
Is this a joke or is that really Stefan? If that's really Stefan... wow... the only reason to finish v6 would be to provide it to new players, because **** us all, right?

Who else do you know that would say "a green lantern thing" to refer to Steam Greenlight?

Crow
09-03-2012, 10:33 AM
Did you seriously just link to Realm of the Mad God and VVVVVV and cite them as "awful games", or is something wrong on my end?

Holy sh, I didn't even notice.


Who else do you know that would say "a green lantern thing" to refer to Steam Greenlight?

Best point made so far, that's definitely Stefan.

TheGodAngelo
09-03-2012, 03:11 PM
an aspiring developer should be working on better projects, not devoting tons of time for nothing in return

if you forget about the restrictions on accounts, and look at graal as a game or a developers platform, i think it's pretty exciting :D

i'll never forget when i found out i could make my own graphics and have them used. sure we were all kids back then, but we've learned so much since then. that graal has potential.

Is this a joke or is that really Stefan? If that's really Stefan... wow... the only reason to finish v6 would be to provide it to new players, because **** us all, right?

he'd be ****ing new players too with observer mode and the current payment policies. (if he even lets pc graal near steam)

scriptless
09-03-2012, 09:02 PM
I don't know why everyone keeps saying OBS will make graal unsuccessful. Even if you rewind 6 years ago, a playercount of 80-120 was GREAT. Era and Zodiac I often see hitting 80. And Guess what? They had OBS mode too.. Aparently it's not hurting pc as much as people like to complain. Granted OBS has been removed.. tho I oddly have still been getting thrown into it o-O

Alot of the downfall of graal happened when servers, not just N-Pulse, started saying here you logged in so we will give you everything and good luck. I have been playing since 2002, I have seen the up's and down's. And I can see graal has made ALOT of progress with both it's engine, and its strategies.

We still have servers such as UN where you log on and just kinda guess and get lucky where to go, what to do.

Let's wait and see how Classic does before making any negative judgments against graal, please?

Crono
09-03-2012, 09:14 PM
I don't know why everyone keeps saying OBS will make graal unsuccessful. Even if you rewind 6 years ago, a playercount of 80-120 was GREAT. Era and Zodiac I often see hitting 80. And Guess what? They had OBS mode too.. Aparently it's not hurting pc as much as people like to complain. Granted OBS has been removed.. tho I oddly have still been getting thrown into it o-O

Alot of the downfall of graal happened when servers, not just N-Pulse, started saying here you logged in so we will give you everything and good luck. I have been playing since 2002, I have seen the up's and down's. And I can see graal has made ALOT of progress with both it's engine, and its strategies.

We still have servers such as UN where you log on and just kinda guess and get lucky where to go, what to do.

Let's wait and see how Classic does before making any negative judgments against graal, please?

You're completely wrong. The reason why it worked before was because you could pay once for lifetime Classic access and never had to pay again. This was also during a time when F2P meant mediocre to **** quality and pay2win. Nowadays games are shifting to F2P with aesthetic micro-transactions.

Downfall of Graal happened when v5 was released, and (in terms of playercount) Graal has skyrocketed post-iDevice release. From a PC perspective, Graal will continue to be this stale and low-playercount until we finally get a better payment system and a more attractive game client.

But hey, what does clueless forum troll Crono know. Only been repeating myself for years. :asleep:

cbk1994
09-03-2012, 09:38 PM
I don't know why everyone keeps saying OBS will make graal unsuccessful. Even if you rewind 6 years ago, a playercount of 80-120 was GREAT. Era and Zodiac I often see hitting 80. And Guess what? They had OBS mode too.. Aparently it's not hurting pc as much as people like to complain. Granted OBS has been removed.. tho I oddly have still been getting thrown into it o-O

Era and Zodiac haven't had observer mode for several years now. I don't know why you're making the point that they had it at one time. It's not very convincing to point to servers without observer mode as examples that observer mode doesn't scare off new players.

Obviously we can't accurately speculate about the fate of Era and Zodiac if they'd never lost observer mode, but we are in a better position to judge than you think. After the removal of observer mode we saw a significant increase in the number of trials (and later the number of new players who upgraded) playing. Some of this data you can get by looking at the "numbers" threads I make about once a year for Era:

2012-02-05 (http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134265706)
2011-02-20 (http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134262164)
2010-02-20 (http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134258094)


If you're still not convinced how damaging observer mode is to the game, do a few Google searches and see what people who've tried the game say about it.

Nobody is claiming that removing observer mode will fix Graal, just that removing it is a necessary step if Graal hopes to gain new players.

Tim_Rocks
09-03-2012, 09:43 PM
Listen to Crono, he's right. New payment plans please.

DustyPorViva
09-03-2012, 10:19 PM
If Graal ever made it to Steam then there wouldn't be observer mode since he'd be using their in-app purchases to probably use the same set-up they're using for the iOS versions. In fact chances are they'd probably link them to the iPhone servers and still leave us(and the PC servers) out of it.

boolean
09-03-2012, 10:44 PM
...chances are they'd probably link them to the iPhone servers and still leave us(and the PC servers) out of it.

They would probably do this, lol.

scriptless
09-03-2012, 11:55 PM
Era and Zodiac haven't had observer mode for several years now.

Then something is bugged with OBS mode, becasue this year, and last year several times I have been thrown into OBS mode.

Also the same with Kingdoms.

Sometimes my window is limited in size, sometimes it goes OBS mode, others it just appears fine. And that applies with lifetime accounts as well as trials these bizzare behaviors. I don't know if anyone else has noticed it but look at the top of your window.. sometimes it says "Trial Mode Upgrade now...." and some times it says "yoru free time has ended".. on at least Era and GK. I can't say for Zodiac for sure because I honestly never played nor intend to.

Might be worth noting I AM using v6, not v5.

You're completely wrong. The reason why it worked before was because you could pay once for lifetime Classic access and never had to pay again. This was also during a time when F2P meant mediocre to **** quality and pay2win. Nowadays games are shifting to F2P with aesthetic micro-transactions.:

You are misunderstanding me, I am saying as of this year 2012 I have been thrown into OBS mode, on both ERA and GK for a total of 2, and 5 times respectively. I haven't played era enough for it to continue happening but it HAS and probably WILL happen again. There seems to be an odd bug (others have mentioned it in other forums with "free time" and not being reset). Sometimes the game will throw you a smaller window, others it just OBS mode's you, whether it's suspose to or not doesnt change the fact, it still does. But I suspose you guys have been playing on trials to confirm even with your lifetime and gold accounts? Where-as I have been using a trial->gold->trial->gold (Graal###) account for the last few years due to restricted access on ll of my other accounts (untill this year when unixmad helped me).

If Graal ever made it to Steam then there wouldn't be observer mode since he'd be using their in-app purchases to probably use the same set-up they're using for the iOS versions. In fact chances are they'd probably link them to the iPhone servers and still leave us(and the PC servers) out of it.

Of course, like they did with Facebook.

PhantosP2P
09-04-2012, 12:08 AM
Our community numbers would jump up drastically if there weren't such a thing as trial accounts. I don't know how anyone but a marketing/sales person could argue in the positive for paid accounts on a video game. People love free.

scriptless
09-04-2012, 12:16 AM
Our community numbers would jump up drastically if there weren't such a thing as trial accounts. I don't know how anyone but a marketing/sales person could argue in the positive for paid accounts on a video game. People love free.

Not saing they wouldn't. Of course free would have a much larger playercount. Just saying active players on a server havent seemed to go up as much as everyone say with the "suposive" removal of OBS mode even if it kinda-sorta-sometimes still throws u in OBS..

Yeah I looked at CBK's statistics.. The "unique" players went from 7k to 24k, to 36k... But who cares how many "unique" players logged onto a server? I am refering to active players, actively "playing".. I have watched the playerlist. I have seen it go from 25-45 average, to the 60-80+ average over the last 2-4 years.

Wish this would show further back then just 12 months,
http://statistics.graal.us/server/show/36

skillmaster19
09-04-2012, 12:36 AM
the reason for the increase in unique logins but decrease in overall activity is people on the iPhone servers find out "OMG GRAAL IS ACTUALLY A PC GAME?" and proceed to try it, then find out how annoying it is playing as a trial and having to pay and stop playing. Hopefully f2p will fix this.

PhantosP2P
09-04-2012, 12:38 AM
We've spent hours discussing on skype (in chat and calls), the various plans and attitudes to hold about Valikorlia's future and the thing that cripples our positive outlook each time is the account situation. It stops development from moving forward, it turns newbies away, and that factors into our community spending most of its time away from Graal.

Our server hasn't any quests or dungeons, it's all a community theater bit. If we have events, the numbers spike up, and that's essentially all we do these days. Systems and long-running storylines are stuck at the gate for a lot of reasons and this whole trial business is one of them.

I think Graal on Steam would be good if for no other reason than exposure. I could wait around for the PC client to be fixed on its own but Stefan seems to wait for big events like these before acting.

Hiro
09-04-2012, 01:25 AM
it would also give a reason to finish windows v6 Are you ****ing serious?

alskdjfhg
09-04-2012, 07:19 AM
Are you ****ing serious?

Can Stefan please just hand down PC Graal to someone with a brain that actually gives a **** about his loyal community of over 10 ****ing years?

Crono
09-04-2012, 12:41 PM
Are you ****ing serious?

Can Stefan please just hand down PC Graal to someone with a brain that actually gives a **** about his loyal community of over 10 ****ing years?

Not that I'm usually the defender of Stefan but he was referring to the fact that so many people are against v6 and that Steam integration would be an arguement in favor of v6.

Tim_Rocks
09-04-2012, 06:15 PM
You guys are still using v6? Should upgrade to the beta v7, so much nicer.

dbug
09-05-2012, 07:53 PM
You guys are still using v6? Should upgrade to the beta v7, so much nicer.

lol, there is no v7. I use v6 only. I dislike v5.. but then again i was eagerly awaiting external scripted windows :)

Tim_Rocks
09-05-2012, 08:37 PM
It was a joke, not sure if you remember the "hacker" who claimed to be releasing a preview of v7 in order to phish passwords.

dude2020
09-05-2012, 09:00 PM
You have to pay Valve 100$ fee to post a game to Greenlight.

smirt362
09-06-2012, 01:08 AM
You have to pay Valve 100$ fee to post a game to Greenlight.

Well thats never going to happen :pluffy:

DustyPorViva
09-06-2012, 01:20 AM
You have to pay Valve 100$ fee to post a game to Greenlight.

It's a one-time fee that goes towards charity. The only reason they even have it is to weed out people who aren't even submitting serious games(spam, trolls). You'd have to be fairly well-off just to pay $100 to troll Greenlight. $100 when you're talking about game development(especially with a game that's been around as long as Graal has) is nothing. In fact, you have to pay much more for iOS I believe.

cbk1994
09-06-2012, 01:38 AM
It's a one-time fee that goes towards charity. The only reason they even have it is to weed out people who aren't even submitting serious games(spam, trolls). You'd have to be fairly well-off just to pay $100 to troll Greenlight. $100 when you're talking about game development(especially with a game that's been around as long as Graal has) is nothing. In fact, you have to pay much more for iOS I believe.

$100 for iOS as well but that's a different sort of process. You pay $100/year for a developer subscription. Submitting apps doesn't cost anything (they take a cut of your profits, though).

DustyPorViva
09-06-2012, 02:06 AM
$100 for iOS as well but that's a different sort of process. You pay $100/year for a developer subscription. Submitting apps doesn't cost anything (they take a cut of your profits, though).
Ah... well either way it's still comparable in costs so I don't see why people would jump to say $100 is too much for Stefan to bother with.

cbk1994
09-06-2012, 02:24 AM
Ah... well either way it's still comparable in costs so I don't see why people would jump to say $100 is too much for Stefan to bother with.

Indeed. A donation to charity as a barrier to prevent spam is an interesting idea, though. Obviously it only works in some very specific circumstances, but interesting nonetheless.

Jiroxys7
09-07-2012, 04:38 PM
Who else do you know that would say "a green lantern thing" to refer to Steam Greenlight?

That was my favorite part!

linkrulz4
09-09-2012, 09:54 AM
Graal wouldn't make it on Steam. It's not ready for that kind of thing.

I'm shocked no one has even heard of Desura, because it'd do much better on that market than one as anal as Gabe Newell's burger machine. The community is less hardcore cawadooty gamersbrah, and is much more open to modders and indie development. I'm not sure why this wasn't already done, but it should have a long time ago. Just because Steam announces you can pay $100.00 to gamble at getting your game hosted does not mean it's a great idea.

Consider this:

It takes 1000 votes to get 1% of an upvote rating. I can only assume this amount scales even larger based on increments. So far, very few games have gone even above 10%, and even then they seem to fluctuate drastically. These are real, legit, and innovative titles that are meant as serious standalone projects, most with lots of funding and positive representation on the gaming market well before they were on Steam Greenlight. Steam Greenlight is NOT for indie titles that haven't been properly updated to meet current standards since 2006, and show it. Steam Greenlight is NOT like the iOS market, where everyone and their mother can submit an app that is literally just a button that makes a noise for $0.99 USD. Steam Greenlight is probably the most anal community of gamers and critics that only want the cream of the crop to make it, and whatever will put more money into Gaben's wallet.

I will tell you exactly what will happen the moment it gets uploaded.

First, people are immediately going to report it for being a Zelda clone. Let's forget the fact it started out this way and has changed. We're entering a new market. People are going to automatically make the connection, especially the diehard fanboys. Already that's going to potentially kick us out of the race.
The next thing that will happen is the game will most likely result in very few positive ratings, which is based off if people will buy the game or not. People already do not want to buy Graal for what it's currently selling for. I can guarantee you that over 100,000 people will not want to buy Graal on steam when it has a maximum playercount of 3,000 on a good day, most of which are on the iOS version idling anyways. Already, this is a waste of money keeping it hosted there. You've already lost the gamble.

But the list goes on.

Graal is going to have to provide videos and content of what is already available. People are going to assume it's unfinished based on what is currently public and has been for over ten years. In reality, Graal really does play like some kind of obscure beta project. It has some seriously strange glitches and lots of bugs that are unexplained, like the weird behavior of GS2 or the odd lag spikes that shouldn't be happening anymore. This is sad, but true. They're going to expect a whole new product that they will never likely receive.

What else, they're going to expect a level of quality Graal will not deliver, such as a professional PR system and hosted server management/administration. Players are going to log onto servers and realize most of them are ran by people not even out of high school. As much as the PWAs work hard, they are not at all fit to handle a massive influx of players, should it ever happen, as they are right now. If Graal were to be released on Steam, I guarantee it would be booted just as fast for potential complaints it would bolster based off the fact it's a very poorly managed game, from a professional standpoint. That's another waste of money trying to host it on there, which is not free. With the new networks of gaming hubs and forums with the 'steambook' upgrade, it's very easy to look up a game and see the community and how much is broken about it. Based on the kind of people who play on Steam, Graal would be one of those games that has thread after thread of complaints, no question. This would destroy its representation very quickly.

One other thing.
Graal has way too much Intellectual Property violations scattered randomly throughout its servers to really be introduced to a market as anal as the 'ultimate PC platforming application'. It's not going to be able to claim parody either, and the game making money would only make it worse. People are going to see heads of //.hack characters, super mario bros., Zelda, etc. etc. and probably complain about that. Not to mention, there's always that one guy who uploads a sprite ripped right out of Chrono Trigger and manages to get it uploaded. Seen this crap too much. I don't know why it happens, but it does. Probably because majority of staff have no idea what a copyright law is.
There would have to be a major purging of the servers again, just like the early 2000's, of possible illegal content to prevent any potential lawsuits or claims. The more attention Graal receives, the more likely this will happen. A lot would have to be changed to fix it, such as the submission process of personal graphics. Honestly, it may have to go back to doing it on the actual Graal website again, with a dedicated team going over them with a fine-toothed comb. It's going to be a lot of trouble, and a ton of work. Work that, as history shows us, is not going to get done because of the effort put forth by certain people in charge of those processes already.

I could go on for days, I think. You get the point, I hope. This is a bad idea, and a waste of money.

If you want Graal to be hosted in some kind of gaming network, go research Desura. It would have a much higher chance, albeit not 100%, of being hosted there than on Steam.


Look.
http://www.desura.com/development
There's a link.
Have at it.

DustyPorViva
09-09-2012, 05:50 PM
Ya, what an absolute waste of $100. I also like that you open up by saying it's Gabe's Burger Machine... ya your opinion is not biased or skewed at all.

Fulg0reSama
09-09-2012, 05:53 PM
-Hardcore Smackdown of an explaination-

Thank you for saying exactly what was on my mind sir, +rep. (minus the burger factory bit, that just seems a bit unfair to greenlight)

This guy has said extremely important things to the matter of this idea.

But to actually add to the conversation myself, It's not a TOTAL waste, but for it to work would require a completely new, simplistic, disconnected form of Graal to be placed into Greenlight, nothing more could possibly get through with our resources without just making our own game.

cbk1994
09-09-2012, 05:54 PM
one as anal as Gabe Newell's burger machine.

how u gonna hate on valve w/ that signature??

linkrulz4
09-09-2012, 06:26 PM
how u gonna hate on valve w/ that signature??

Ya, what an absolute waste of $100. I also like that you open up by saying it's Gabe's Burger Machine... ya your opinion is not biased or skewed at all.

Not seeing the forest for the trees, bro.
Graal being hosted on Steam would wind up costing a lot more than $100.00. Only submitting to Greenlight costs $100.00 to have the game looked at, and possibly even denied that much. Why waste time and money when there are clearly other options available with more promise? In the long run, that's money Graal could have put elsewhere towards something that isn't as impulsive as this idea.The website itself explains there are numerous other fees involved that they do not make public. In the long run, I can easily foresee Graal paying more than what it's making. If you think Steam hosting is free, you're in dreamland. Think of that $100.00 fee as a ticket into a theme park, like Six-Flags; you paid the entry fee, but is everything in the park free to you? Hell no. You're still going to have to pay for all of those nice little additions to your experience there once you get inside. Ill-thought ideas like this nearly once killed Cyberjouers/Eurocenter and drove them into debt. If you value this game so much, you'd encourage more rationally thought out choices than joining a blind bandwagon.

Read up on Greenlight and you'll find people recommend Desura over it for this sort of thing. That is the better alternative. I am not sure why there is opposition towards it, when it's a community that Graal would fit in with much more than Steam's.

Felix_Xenophobe
09-09-2012, 07:00 PM
hey guys have you heard about DESURA

linkrulz4
09-09-2012, 07:07 PM
hey guys have you heard about DESURA

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5r9lxmSlC1qbaj4uo1_500.jpg

DustyPorViva
09-09-2012, 07:13 PM
Read up on Greenlight and you'll find people recommend Desura over it for this sort of thing. That is the better alternative. I am not sure why there is opposition towards it, when it's a community that Graal would fit in with much more than Steam's.

This has nothing to do with the better medium, but the fact that Steam is the most popular/successful market on PC and Greenlight is currently getting a lot of attention. That means more potential players... on the other hand I have never even heard of Desura, and I doubt many others here have either.

Crow
09-09-2012, 09:44 PM
This has nothing to do with the better medium, but the fact that Steam is the most popular/successful market on PC and Greenlight is currently getting a lot of attention. That means more potential players... on the other hand I have never even heard of Desura, and I doubt many others here have either.

Desura is rather big as it is now, and is getting more popular. Still, Steam would be a way better choice.

linkrulz4
09-09-2012, 10:35 PM
Desura is rather big as it is now, and is getting more popular. Still, Steam would be a way better choice.

Why would Steam be a better choice? What makes you think Graal would survive on Steam at all? Look at the games that actually make it on Steam and Steam Greenlight, and then tell me how Graal fits in with them. Not that you're obligated to do this at all, but I'd sure like to be convinced that Graal would have a chance.

Desura was made for indie games and indie developers to get their name out. Steam is obviously for much larger companies and already established games that have had their names out there for years. Indie games and mods that have made it on steam usually started elsewhere and became cult hits before even being considered, and there are plenty that made their debuts on Desura. There are lots of great games that they deny already. I don't see Graal fitting these qualifications at all, looking over its statistics in history.

The only thing that would be positive with Steam is getting the game looked at by a handful of people for a limited window of time, when we could already do that on Desura and keep it there for a lot cheaper. There are lots of games arguably on Steam Greenlight that look alpha as all hell, but they fall into two categories; no one is voting for them, or they already were widely successful elsewhere. People are literally trying to push most these games out of their queues if they look any less then then a game made by a major publisher. The worst part is that these are games that look much more fine-tuned than Graal, and most of them were made by a team of one or two people under the course of a few months. Looking at how much progress Graal has made over the last half of a decade, I'm pretty positive we don't have the manpower to compete. We need to find a better market that is suited to helping indie developers. That is not Steam.


Going back to Desura, the community is made for independent games. We'd probably have a higher chance of finding aspiring indie developers there too. The people there are usually very interested in projects like Graal, and honestly, this game needs a new source of inspiration other than the stagnant pool we've had since they closed down Classic accounts. Graal entering a community made for modders and indie games, with people who are usually willing to offer themselves to help projects be successful, would do it wonders. Maybe after that we could go on Steam and look presentable.


But seriously.
I really want someone to show me I'm wrong. So far, no one has made any real points against me beyond "whats desura" and "steam is popular".

This has nothing to do with the better medium, but the fact that Steam is the most popular/successful market on PC and Greenlight is currently getting a lot of attention. That means more potential players... on the other hand I have never even heard of Desura, and I doubt many others here have either.

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's the right place to put Graal. I don't think you're getting the point. Millions of people know what Desura is. These people are the kind of people that have a higher chance of helping Graal become something better than it is now, besides the casual Steam user that only wants to play games rather than develop for them. If a small community of one hundred people or so haven't heard of something, it doesn't make it any less of a better option. Have you even researched it? I'm curious.

Crow
09-09-2012, 11:38 PM
Why would Steam be a better choice?

Your posts are too long, I'm not going to read through all of that. Popularity.

Edit: Screw that, read some of it. Your Steam arguments are mostly invalid. There are a lot of indie games that have made their debut on Steam without being popular before.

Also:
But seriously.
I really want someone to show me I'm wrong. So far, no one has made any real points against me beyond "whats desura" and "steam is popular".

That is a good point already. Oh, and maybe you should make a few good points that show you're right, on the contrary.

xXziroXx
09-09-2012, 11:40 PM
linkrulz4 is posting some pretty valid concerns really, you guys need to stop getting your panties in a bundle.

smirt362
09-10-2012, 02:24 AM
linkrulz4 is posting some pretty valid concerns really, you guys need to stop getting your panties in a bundle.

In a humble indy bundle?

xXziroXx
09-10-2012, 02:27 AM
In a humble indy bundle?

^^

scriptless
09-10-2012, 02:58 AM
linkrulz4 is posting some pretty valid concerns really, you guys need to stop getting your panties in a bundle.

I agree.

I wouldn't mind seeing graal (pc) more Facebook friendly before jumping to something such as Steam. Facebook is a valuable tool and I don't quite think graal is taking full advantage of it quite yet. I personally wouldn't mind seeing statistics for how many players use facebook to login to the iPhone servers.

The classic servers are starting to get better and better. Era looks great, Classic has some nice quality. Not really big on Zodiac (im a classic type slash and quest player).. But we now have a decent selection of servers. Hopefully (pc) can get a few other servers and we can start drawing in more players.

Fulg0reSama
09-10-2012, 03:40 AM
-Post-

Don't worry people, Crow had a stroke and didn't know what he was typing, he'll be back to normal soon enough.

skillmaster19
09-10-2012, 03:46 AM
$100 is nothing, don't see what Stefan would have to lose, doesn't hurt to try.

Also I do a lot of pc gaming, and I've never heard of Desura.

Arch_Angel
09-10-2012, 05:28 AM
Also I do a lot of pc gaming, and I've never heard of Desura.

yay for internets

scriptless
09-10-2012, 05:37 AM
yay for internets

http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/4/23/9Ir6v_HniE6mYJad__ZqDw2.jpg

On other note, I still think facebook <-> pc would be better to start with, then proceed to other gaming companies to help drive traffic.

Does anyone else have any other places in mind besides Steam and Desura? We, the players, can start helping graal advertise maybe. Arn't there still top 100 sites around? Forums? Graal can be fun at times xD

Crow
09-10-2012, 09:34 AM
Don't worry people, Crow had a stroke and didn't know what he was typing, he'll be back to normal soon enough.

I must've missed something in this conversation :oo:

Let me make a short point: Why not Steam? You know how games can coexist on Steam and Desura, right? I never spoke negatively of Desura. I know the platform and I do like it, but there is no point not going for Steam.

fowlplay4
09-10-2012, 03:12 PM
Desura (nobody cares about indie games) and Steam (people only like it because of Minecraft) are complete garbage, Graal should be on Origin.

Crono
09-10-2012, 03:20 PM
Steam (people only like it because of Minecraft) are complete garbage, Graal should be on Origin.

not sure if trolling...

fowlplay4
09-10-2012, 04:00 PM
not sure if trolling...

we both know origin is the superior platform, why else would EA put BF3 on it?

Crono
09-10-2012, 04:06 PM
we both know origin is the superior platform, why else would EA put BF3 on it?

still not sure if trolling....

xXziroXx
09-10-2012, 05:06 PM
Liking Origin, HAH, good one jerret.

Felix_Xenophobe
09-10-2012, 06:45 PM
desura (nobody cares about indie games) and steam (people only like it because of minecraft) are complete garbage, graal should be on origin.

10/10

Fulg0reSama
09-11-2012, 08:19 PM
Why not Steam? You know how games can coexist on Steam and Desura, right? I never spoke negatively of Desura. I know the platform and I do like it, but there is no point not going for Steam.

How about except that Graal's content of gameplay is so subpar, a game like ROTMD (I believe it's very good, don't start spitting fire everyone) can be far superior to Graal, which has this working for it:

1. Creative freedoms of making your own world, game, whatever (Something that Minecraft is beloved for, obviously cant commit copyright infringement and other legal no-nos) Which is a lot to say as a game for sandbox style enjoyment.

2. Ability to create WHATEVER KIND OF GAME YOU WANT, meaning, you have the potential to appeal to all kinds of players, Want shooters? We got that covered, Want an RTS? We could have that ready to go with effort, Want to play a card game? ****, Classic has Triple Triad from FF8, we could have UNO and many other addictive card games in a lil while, Want a RP game? Valikorlia obviously is able to provide a sorts to this craving, Want an RPG? Well, dependant on the RPG style, if you want an MMORPG, I guess Zodiac can cover you, want a traditional RPG? Classic has you covered, Want seriously... ANYTHING ELSE? Just make it. It's obviously not as easy as speaking it, but its not impossible.

Yet somehow, ROTMD which is a mmo bullet-hell RPG, will win against Graal as it is right now 99/100 times, will succeed over Graal, that 1 time is in a bizzaro universe where Graal actually succeeded on its own and didn't need steam in the first place, also Stefan is king of the universe and (You get where I'm heading with this)

tl;dr: Graal has no chance for Steam because its content is incapable of satisfying people, let alone actually passing the voting process.
I was actually more or less saying what I said because you were saying that linkrulz4's points were invalid. But I will say that yes, the game could easily live between more then one platform, if anything it's obviously better, but I'm speaking strictly on Steam with Graal and why Graal is that trashy girl that Steam's friend's (community) would say "Dude, she's so the wrong for you, dude, she has tried to get with every dude around here, she even tried to get me, man!" at this time.

One more thing to say,
My question is this to those who are hard-set on Graal with Steam: If this was something ready to happen, how will we make it ready for the show? Because Greenlight for players is a shooting gallery for the observers, they can shoot and knock it 1100 different ways if they want to, which on its own is a negative for any game potentially going up to greenlight, how would we sell the idea to people and make them want it? how would we make it happen? Because I can say without a doubt that it wouldn't work because our content isn't up to par at this time.

Crow
09-11-2012, 11:23 PM
I don't want to deny that Graal lacks a certain level of quality for Steam. It still makes a nice goal, though. Shoot for Steam. It might eventually end up there.

Crono
09-11-2012, 11:45 PM
Graal doesn't need Steam. It needs to run side by side with the iServers. It would be one of the few multiplayer games you can play on multiple platforms.

Stephen
09-12-2012, 12:10 AM
Graal doesn't need Steam. It needs to run side by side with the iServers. It would be one of the few multiplayer games you can play on multiple platforms.
It'd be pretty darn cool. Problem is we've all been saying it since there were rumours of iGraal... we can keep saying it but it won't make a difference until Stefan or Unixmad weigh in on the topic.

Crono
09-12-2012, 12:35 AM
It'd be pretty darn cool. Problem is we've all been saying it since there were rumours of iGraal... we can keep saying it but it won't make a difference until Stefan or Unixmad weigh in on the topic.

It's already possible through v6 and it is how staff log on the two iServers. iClassic has its iDevice and PC spar statistics seperated, ripe and ready for the picking.

Stephen
09-12-2012, 12:39 AM
It's already possible through v6 and it is how staff log on the two iServers. iClassic has its iDevice and PC spar statistics seperated, ripe and ready for the picking.
Yea, I've tried it before when iClassic first came out - works flawlessly. There has to be a reason it hasn't been released, makes me curious...

xXziroXx
09-12-2012, 12:49 AM
It's already possible through v6 and it is how staff log on the two iServers. iClassic has its iDevice and PC spar statistics seperated, ripe and ready for the picking.

I'd like to point out that using v5 or v6 doesn't matter in order to logon the iOS servers. I've used both for Era iPhone multiple times.

I've said this in some other thread, but the main reason iOS was originally separated was because it used a different account system, which isn't the case anymore.

Tim_Rocks
09-12-2012, 04:40 AM
It actually does matter, since iOS is a modified version of v6. The reason is simple though, keep everyone running the same version, v6. It makes scripting easier and I don't have to make multiple versions just to support v5.

To the average player though, they don't care.

Geno
09-12-2012, 05:51 AM
WoW and Guild Wars 2 just got released on steam! so awesome! why isnt graal on steam?!

Tim_Rocks
09-12-2012, 06:39 AM
v6 needs to become a stable release that everyone is forced to use.

xXziroXx
09-12-2012, 01:18 PM
It actually does matter, since iOS is a modified version of v6. The reason is simple though, keep everyone running the same version, v6. It makes scripting easier and I don't have to make multiple versions just to support v5.

To the average player though, they don't care.

No, it really doesn't matter. I've played iEra on multiple occasions using v5, and so far I haven't encountered a single bug with it.

Tim_Rocks
09-12-2012, 04:08 PM
No, it really doesn't matter. I've played iEra on multiple occasions using v5, and so far I haven't encountered a single bug with it.

Hi, maybe you didn't actually read what I said, let me spell it out for you. Development wise we want to keep everyone on the same version. Makes coding scripts easier since everyones going to see the same thing.

To the average player though, they don't care.

Which is why I partially agree with you, but I no longer care why you guys use v5, so as a developer, I'm not gonna waste my time supporting it. So if I was in any place to say "Yes, let's allow everyone on iServers." The answer would be no, because I'd have to waste my time debugging just to figure out why you're having a v5 issue..

Short Version: Waste of my time.

Crono
09-12-2012, 04:47 PM
v6 needs to become a stable release that everyone is forced to use.

Needs to become better before everyone is forced to use it.

xXziroXx
09-12-2012, 05:20 PM
Hi, maybe you didn't actually read what I said, let me spell it out for you. Development wise we want to keep everyone on the same version. Makes coding scripts easier since everyones going to see the same thing.

Hi, I spend my days thinking I'm cool on an internet community where I've accomplished absolutely nothing too!

Oh wait, no, that's just you.

I know the differences between v5 and v6 development wise just as good as anyone else, seeing how I made an entire server from scratch and had to script it for both versions.

Get off your not-as-high-as-you-think horse already.

Tim_Rocks
09-12-2012, 06:28 PM
I am not on some high horse, it makes more sense for everyone to be using the same version of Graal. Ignorance is bliss.


Needs to become better before everyone is forced to use it.

Thanks, Crono. Pretty much what I meant by "stable".

Crono
09-12-2012, 06:34 PM
Thanks, Crono.

Stability is not the same thing as aesthetics or functionality.

Tim_Rocks
09-12-2012, 06:38 PM
The only issue that's a major problem is the FPS, which I've only seen happen on one of my PC's. That needs to be fixed if there's going to be a forced release.

Stability is not the same thing as aesthetics or functionality.

Just going to assume you're talking about the player list, get used to that I suppose, I really don't think they'll be making any changes to it.

Crono
09-12-2012, 06:44 PM
Just going to assume you're talking about the player list, get used to that I suppose, I really don't think they'll be making any changes to it.

Playerlist, profiles, the way new Windows are opened, fonts, etc. FP4 compiled a cute list somewhere but I'd have to dig it up to find it.

Tim_Rocks
09-12-2012, 06:47 PM
Playerlist, and profiles seem fine to me? Do you just not like the change?

Another glitch would be highlight and leaving the window with your mouse, but that works okay for me since I'm on a Mac..

Stephen
09-12-2012, 06:51 PM
Playerlist, profiles, the way new Windows are opened, fonts, etc. FP4 compiled a cute list somewhere but I'd have to dig it up to find it.
I never really got the whole "down with V6 hu-ra-ra" stuff. It IS different from V5 in a lot of ways, but not all of them are bad. There are a few frustrating kinks but nothing that would prevent V6 from being a viable replacement. What's the big problem?

:confused:

xXziroXx
09-12-2012, 06:53 PM
I never really got the whole "down with V6 hu-ra-ra" stuff. It IS different from V5 in a lot of ways, but not all of them are bad. There are a few frustrating kinks but nothing that would prevent V6 from being a viable replacement. What's the big problem?

:confused:

The only real problem is the playerlist difference. v6 is overall so much nicer though, that I'm willing to overlook that.

DustyPorViva
09-12-2012, 06:56 PM
Texting highlighting being broken, playerlist not opening when the client is maximized and various quirks like that makes using v6 a painful experience imo.

Stephen
09-12-2012, 06:59 PM
Texting highlighting being broken, playerlist not opening when the client is maximized and various quirks like that makes using v6 a painful experience imo.
The text highlighting and PM windows not staying centered (tiled PMs ftl) is both very annoying, but I find that V6 just runs better than V5... I don't use the fullscreen mode so I can't really comment on that.

Tim_Rocks
09-12-2012, 07:01 PM
The only real problem is the playerlist difference. v6 is overall so much nicer though, that I'm willing to overlook that.

That's more of a personal preference than a problem. I doubt that it will be changed.

Texting highlighting being broken, playerlist not opening when the client is maximized and various quirks like that makes using v6 a painful experience imo.

Highlighting is broken, yes, not on Mac though. Not sure why, but that would be why I forgot about it. Uhm, as for the playerlist, I haven't ever experienced that issue, I always have my playerlist and Graal window in the same spot (probably why).

DustyPorViva
09-12-2012, 07:06 PM
The text highlighting and PM windows not staying centered (tiled PMs ftl) is both very annoying, but I find that V6 just runs better than V5... I don't use the fullscreen mode so I can't really comment on that.

I didn't really find much of a performance difference between v5 and v6 so I'm not really forced to pick one for better performance. Also the maximize thing means if I minimize Graal to my taskbar when I open the window back up the playerlist remains hidden until I also bring it back up. It's fairly annoying for someone like me who is constantly changing windows.

Highlighting is broken, yes, not on Mac though.

It's funny that I hear that so much, but it doesn't change the fact that it is sorely broken on Windows.

Tim_Rocks
09-12-2012, 07:11 PM
It's funny that I hear that so much, but it doesn't change the fact that it is sorely broken on Windows.

Yeah, always funny how the operating system most players use is the one that's broken.

Crow
09-12-2012, 07:11 PM
The playerlist not sticking to the main window when minimizing/restoring Graal and the text highlighting issue are, in my opinion and from a player's view, the only things that need to be fixed before an actual release. Besides that, v6 is working quite fine.

Crono
09-12-2012, 07:18 PM
Do you just not like the change?

Uh, yeah? Me along with others who don't want to use v6. I've never been a fan of Graal's inbuilt Windows, so changing the old ones just worsens it. I'm aware you can pick themes but that's just dodging the issue.

I never really got the whole "down with V6 hu-ra-ra" stuff. It IS different from V5 in a lot of ways, but not all of them are bad. There are a few frustrating kinks but nothing that would prevent V6 from being a viable replacement. What's the big problem?

:confused:

Font, playerlist/profile/pm Windows, etc. Windows open in awkward places, not sure how to describe it.

Crow
09-12-2012, 07:25 PM
Uh, yeah? Me along with others who don't want to use v6. I've never been a fan of Graal's inbuilt Windows, so changing the old ones just worsens it. I'm aware you can pick themes but that's just dodging the issue.

You do realize this won't change, right?

Stephen
09-12-2012, 07:26 PM
Also the maximize thing means if I minimize Graal to my taskbar when I open the window back up the playerlist remains hidden until I also bring it back up. It's fairly annoying for someone like me who is constantly changing windows.
Ah yes, I had that problem on windows too. On another note, Graal does a few awesome things on Mac OS, it's pretty nice. ^^

xXziroXx
09-12-2012, 07:29 PM
That's more of a personal preference than a problem. I doubt that it will be changed.

It's the change from v5 to v6 that the majority of players complain about, so it should be significant enough to be looked into.

Tim_Rocks
09-12-2012, 07:42 PM
To be honest, you guys are going to complain no matter what happens. Which only means your complaint will be taken seriously close to never.


You do realize this won't change, right?
Pretty much, I suggest just getting used to it, I hated v6 at first, now after using it for almost a year, I'm very used to it and actually prefer it.

DustyPorViva
09-12-2012, 07:50 PM
To be honest, you guys are going to complain no matter what happens. Which only means your complaint will be taken seriously close to never.

If only there weren't an entire thread where many people posted countless bugs and quirks that they desired to be fixed to make v6 more accessible to them... It's as if people DO care to try to get v6 out but are largely ignored...

Crono
09-12-2012, 08:07 PM
You do realize this won't change, right?

Yes, I do realize that. I also realize the fonts will stay screwed.

Jakov_the_Jakovasaur
09-27-2013, 06:31 PM
hello!

as it has been over 12 months since this thread was created can someone tell me if there has been any updates on graal being accessible through steam?

RegretZ
09-28-2013, 11:01 PM
I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon man. Sorry.

BigBear3
09-29-2013, 09:06 PM
Classic already is fun and it's not even fully released. It's got a high standard of presentation that I expect it to be #1 or #2 PC server. I will eat my shoe, of your choice, if it does not hold a high playercount. :D

youtube or NO balls

baseman101
09-29-2013, 11:11 PM
You can add games that aren't on the Steam store to your steam library. Just press:
Games>Add a Non-Steam Game to My Library

The whole idea of iOS servers being accessable via Steam seems pretty cool. I don't see too many MMOs on Steam, and adding Graal will certainly boost the playercount a bit. It would be a good thing to consider, if Graal ever manages to pass the greenlight and pays the fees.

All-in-all, I don't see it happening, but hey, Graal made it to Android, why not Steam?

MattKan
09-30-2013, 12:40 AM
Good idea--but usually Graal tends to overlook good ideas.

Fulg0reSama
10-01-2013, 09:02 PM
You can add games that aren't on the Steam store to your steam library. Just press:
Games>Add a Non-Steam Game to My Library

The whole idea of iOS servers being accessable via Steam seems pretty cool. I don't see too many MMOs on Steam, and adding Graal will certainly boost the playercount a bit. It would be a good thing to consider, if Graal ever manages to pass the greenlight and pays the fees.

All-in-all, I don't see it happening, but hey, Graal made it to Android, why not Steam?

Graal holds a lot of potential as far as being marketable, but we do hold some rather large problems as far as product goes to give to the public eye.

Nothing a little video editing and obviously massive shaping up as a game couldn't cure ^^

RegretZ
10-03-2013, 06:35 PM
Graal holds a lot of potential as far as being marketable, but we do hold some rather large problems as far as product goes to give to the public eye.

Nothing a little video editing and obviously massive shaping up as a game couldn't cure ^^

This. Definitely this.
The one thing I think Graal may have the most of is potential. Mainly due to the incredible flexibility of the game. With a few good developers, anything is possible.

Televangelist
01-14-2014, 03:48 PM
unfortunately no new players will play pc graal because of observer-mode/archaic subscription policies.

Is there some place where I can read up to get up-to-speed on these things?