PDA

View Full Version : Best Sparrer?


Unkownsoldier
08-01-2011, 05:40 AM
I was going through some old forum threads and I saw a lot of these.

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12705
http://forums.graal2001.com/forums/showthread.php?p=847312

Who do you think is the best sparrer currently playing, or recently removed from the graal scene?

LordSquirt
08-01-2011, 06:34 AM
ares

xAndrewx
08-01-2011, 09:04 AM
will

LordSquirt
08-01-2011, 09:13 AM
andy it's not april 1st

ThomV
08-01-2011, 11:12 AM
Vinka

JesusFreak250
08-01-2011, 11:26 AM
Vinka

obviously

Luda
08-01-2011, 01:11 PM
ares

Crono
08-01-2011, 01:36 PM
ares

Rufus
08-01-2011, 02:09 PM
Ares or Brett

WanDaMan
08-01-2011, 06:58 PM
rufus

fowlplay4
08-01-2011, 06:59 PM
wandaman

BigBear3
08-01-2011, 07:11 PM
probably Ares. I've probably only hit him like 5 times in my life


CONQUEROR

ffcmike
08-01-2011, 07:42 PM
One question nobody brought up is how would you define the best sparrer?
There is somewhat of a difference between who wins the most, who is the hardest to beat, or who has the greatest technique etc.

Without naming any names, sometimes there are people I can have little success against when attempting my normal style, but then can enjoy a good amount of success against when trying a completely different style, sometimes even the conventional "noob rush" style.

Then ofcourse half of sparring is adjusting to lag pattern which varies from person to person, and can seem like both an advantage and a disadvantage.
Some times you can have a vicious triangle where one person keeps beating a second person, a third person keeps beating the first person, the second person keeps beating the third person etc.

Starfire2001
08-01-2011, 08:00 PM
Ares or Warhawk.

Unkownsoldier
08-01-2011, 08:02 PM
One question nobody brought up is how would you define the best sparrer?
There is somewhat of a difference between who wins the most, who is the hardest to beat, or who has the greatest technique etc.

Without naming any names, sometimes there are people I can have little success against when attempting my normal style, but then can enjoy a good amount of success against when trying a completely different style, sometimes even the conventional "noob rush" style.

Then ofcourse half of sparring is adjusting to lag pattern which varies from person to person, and can seem like both an advantage and a disadvantage.
Some times you can have a vicious triangle where one person keeps beating a second person, a third person keeps beating the first person, the second person keeps beating the third person etc.

Quite true, there are often many variables that decide whether you are a good sparrer, or just win a lot. I suggest we have a client-wide tournament? Sort of like the Graalolympics or w.e. we had back in the day.

ffcmike
08-01-2011, 08:11 PM
Quite true, there are often many variables that decide whether you are a good sparrer, or just win a lot. I suggest we have a client-wide tournament? Sort of like the Graalolympics or w.e. we had back in the day.

Even that would only be a means to suggest who the greatest sparrer is specifically for winning tournaments, which while arguably the biggest factor there can sometimes be sparrers who are much better over a larger number of spars against the same opponent, or sparrers who while very good are susceptible to the odd upset in a single spar.

For what it's worth, on the 2 occasions I won Classic's monthly I didn't really enjoy it so much as I felt I'd sparred very defensively, when most of the time I prefer to try and pick my opponent apart.
I think it's fair to say there are a lot more defensive sparrers who are "hard to beat" than sparrers with good attacking timing and instinct.

Crono
08-01-2011, 08:54 PM
very easy to say that the best sparrers are in US so call it a day boys - cronhawk

Mark Sir Link
08-01-2011, 09:04 PM
kevin azite

BigBear3
08-01-2011, 09:08 PM
Tortoise

DustyPorViva
08-01-2011, 10:15 PM
One question nobody brought up is how would you define the best sparrer?
There is somewhat of a difference between who wins the most, who is the hardest to beat, or who has the greatest technique etc.

I'd imagine the person who accomplishes all of those instead of one.

BigBear3
08-01-2011, 11:25 PM
Have a tournament on each server and then a final bracket.

Essence would end up representing GK!

Geno
08-01-2011, 11:42 PM
googie

ff7chocoboknight
08-02-2011, 01:34 AM
Trip

BigBear3
08-02-2011, 03:03 AM
Tortoise won the last Graalympics one I think...

Crono
08-02-2011, 03:17 AM
Tortoise won the last Graalympics one I think...

lol there was only one real graalympics, the others were hosted on random servers etc.

tortoise won the first fake one and came in second in the other. in the real one he didnt make top 3.

Lord Sephiroth
08-02-2011, 06:34 AM
lol there was only one real graalympics, the others were hosted on random servers etc.

tortoise won the first fake one and came in second in the other. in the real one he didnt make top 3.

That being said he still racked up more tournament wins than anyone else over the course of those three or four years where sparring was HUGE. I'm not joining in the debate or fighting for anyones side, just giving credit where credit is due.

Crono
08-02-2011, 02:03 PM
That being said he still racked up more tournament wins than anyone else over the course of those three or four years where sparring was HUGE. I'm not joining in the debate or fighting for anyones side, just giving credit where credit is due.

Ya but he won on small servers like baby and delt whereas people like neo jenova were champs on UN which had a gigantic sparring community.

Unkownsoldier
08-02-2011, 06:19 PM
Perhaps we could have another tournament?

Yet, instead of it being solely on winning you get points for certain things. Like, for every win you get 3 points. Loss no points. Tie 1 point. That would make up half of your points, the other half of your points would be comprised of the health you have left. So lets say you won with 3.5 hearts left. You should be given 3.5 points. So on and so on for every spar (win obviously), and every participant is guaranteed 10 spars. Then at the end, all the points are totaled and you have the best sparrer. The health point system most practical use is to prevent ties, and give players perspective on how good they actually are. Also, if you are guaranteed 10 spars (not a 1 and done tournament) then players can relax and know that they can lose one spar and still be in the running. Of course the matches would be randomized so it isn't always good sparrers versus bad or the reverse.

Gothika
08-02-2011, 07:14 PM
Still wouldn't grant you the best sparrer. Someone might go a perfect 10 for 10 but finish all matches with 1 heart left, where as someone could go 6 for 10 but get through most of their wins unscathed. The 2nd sparrer would win on points although I would think the 1st guy better having won all their fights.

StormYs
08-02-2011, 07:24 PM
Unixmad, no skills needed. Only the power to shut down graal when low on health. He can never lose!

ff7chocoboknight
08-02-2011, 09:06 PM
He'd have to play to get low on health.

Unkownsoldier
08-02-2011, 09:23 PM
Still wouldn't grant you the best sparrer. Someone might go a perfect 10 for 10 but finish all matches with 1 heart left, where as someone could go 6 for 10 but get through most of their wins unscathed. The 2nd sparrer would win on points although I would think the 1st guy better having won all their fights.

Well no, what if you spar 10 easy people? Then you could easily win 10 spars. But lets say you lose 3-4, but you we unscathed in a lot of them by 5 or so hearts. You technically would be the better sparrer than they guy who had 10 wins because you had to spar hard people - due to losses, and won a few by a lot of hearts (which is hard to do) which would prove your greatness. Idk, it seems to even out.

ffcmike
08-02-2011, 09:31 PM
I think it's fair to say there are a lot more defensive sparrers who are "hard to beat" than sparrers with good attacking timing and instinct.

Judging by anonymous neg rep this may have hit a raw nerve in somebody.

ThomV
08-02-2011, 09:54 PM
Sparring on Graal is rock-paper-scissors. It's impossible to entitle someone as the 'best'.

Crono
08-02-2011, 09:54 PM
Sparring on Graal is rock-paper-scissors. It's impossible to entitle someone as the 'best'.

no it rly isnt, some people really are just that good.

taylor
08-02-2011, 10:01 PM
warhawk is up there.

ffcmike
08-02-2011, 10:05 PM
no it rly isnt, some people really are just that good.

I don't think Thom means it as being a matter of luck, I think he's referring to that vicious-triangle scenario I mentioned previously, which even the most knowledgeable sparrers can be a part of.

Unkownsoldier
08-02-2011, 10:15 PM
Sparring on Graal is rock-paper-scissors. It's impossible to entitle someone as the 'best'.

If you mean no one is going to win every match, you are correct. It is literally impossible to win all of your spars. (Presuming you have sparred over 1000 times or so.) There comes a time when even the best sparrers lose, and not even to necessarily good sparrers. Sometimes a certain person has a technique that you find difficult to beat, you lack focus, or whatever the variables go on and on. The best can be defined as the most consistent, in terms of sparring people with = rate or more. (even though people say rate doesn't mean anything, it is there for a reason to have comparable numbers). The best is simply someone who can handle almost any spar and win without messing up. If you are "that good" it doesn't matter the circumstances, you will win.

ffcmike
08-02-2011, 10:27 PM
If you mean no one is going to win every match, you are correct. It is literally impossible to win all of your spars. (Presuming you have sparred over 1000 times or so.) There comes a time when even the best sparrers lose, and not even to necessarily good sparrers. Sometimes a certain person has a technique that you find difficult to beat, you lack focus, or whatever the variables go on and on. The best can be defined as the most consistent, in terms of sparring people with = rate or more. (even though people say rate doesn't mean anything, it is there for a reason to have comparable numbers). The best is simply someone who can handle almost any spar and win without messing up. If you are "that good" it doesn't matter the circumstances, you will win.

While this is true, I'd compare it to athletic running for instance where some people are very fast over 100 meters, but not so great over long distances, where long distance runners aren't so fast over 100 meters.
The complexity of sparring does change over larger numbers of spars, if there was ever some form of Graalympics again I'd like to see both a knockout tournament and a league setup.

Crono
08-02-2011, 10:41 PM
I don't think Thom means it as being a matter of luck, I think he's referring to that vicious-triangle scenario I mentioned previously, which even the most knowledgeable sparrers can be a part of.

the advantage of having played an active server like UN is that i got to witness top sparrers duking it out. they adapt to different sparring styles and can change their own.

just because someone is good at running and playing "defense" doesn't mean they'll outlast or do any better than someone specialized in offense.

Geno
08-02-2011, 10:56 PM
I formally challenge the current spar champion, FACE ME COWARD!

ffcmike
08-02-2011, 11:02 PM
the advantage of having played an active server like UN is that i got to witness top sparrers duking it out. they adapt to different sparring styles and can change their own.

just because someone is good at running and playing "defense" doesn't mean they'll outlast or do any better than someone specialized in offense.

That's kindof my point though, everybody has their default style where some do better than others at first or within a single spar, but given a greater number of spars and subsequent adaptation the tide can change.

Within tournaments you don't really get this time to settle, adapt or perhaps even become fully focussed, I'd say it's a different form of competition with a slightly different set of credentials to when you do get a group of sparrers slugging it out over a few hours.

Crono
08-02-2011, 11:35 PM
That's kindof my point though, everybody has their default style where some do better than others at first or within a single spar, but given a greater number of spars and subsequent adaptation the tide can change.

Within tournaments you don't really get this time to settle, adapt or perhaps even become fully focussed, I'd say it's a different form of competition with a slightly different set of credentials to when you do get a group of sparrers slugging it out over a few hours.

Top sparrers on UN "series", where they spar eachother multiple times and more than just on one occasion.

Unkownsoldier
08-03-2011, 03:09 AM
That's kindof my point though, everybody has their default style where some do better than others at first or within a single spar, but given a greater number of spars and subsequent adaptation the tide can change.

Within tournaments you don't really get this time to settle, adapt or perhaps even become fully focussed, I'd say it's a different form of competition with a slightly different set of credentials to when you do get a group of sparrers slugging it out over a few hours.


This is why I suggested my point system, so you would get 10 spars just like the average series. I guess (in reference to your running analogy) the best runner is personal opinion. In today's flash-bang society we hear about Usain Bolt one of the fastest if not thee fastest man alive. When was the last time there was a lot of hype on a marathon runner? I guess the best is in favor and bias of the societies liking.

skillmaster19
08-03-2011, 03:59 AM
sparring tactics:
1:lag and slash n run and repeat(slight lag)
2:lag and slash all over(extreme lag)
3:actually have a non lag match and try to get around the player and hit from the side.
4:stand and slash(noob tactic but works)
5:corner lame
6:???

ff7chocoboknight
08-03-2011, 06:43 PM
Wall hug.

Ares
08-04-2011, 07:34 AM
sparring tactics:
1:lag and slash n run and repeat(slight lag)
2:lag and slash all over(extreme lag)
3:actually have a non lag match and try to get around the player and hit from the side.
4:stand and slash(noob tactic but works)
5:corner lame
6:???

you're obviously bad at sparring

Crono1508
08-07-2011, 05:31 AM
All-time: NeoJenova

Nobody currently.

MysticX2X
08-07-2011, 06:57 AM
Trip
lol...


For what it's worth, on the 2 occasions I won Classic's monthly I didn't really enjoy it so much as I felt I'd sparred very defensively, when most of the time I prefer to try and pick my opponent apart.
I think it's fair to say there are a lot more defensive sparrers who are "hard to beat" than sparrers with good attacking timing and instinct.
I don't think there's anything wrong with sparring defensively. It's a tactic, like what many mma fighters/boxers use.

ffcmike
08-07-2011, 07:04 AM
I don't think there's anything wrong with sparring defensively. It's a tactic, like what many mma fighters/boxers use.

I'm not actually saying that there's something wrong with it, people do it because it helps their chances of winning.
My point was that I don't think it requires the same level as skill compared to when trying to out-manoeuvre an opponent, and as such I think there's a higher number of more defensive minded sparrers.

Crono
08-07-2011, 03:30 PM
I'm not actually saying that there's something wrong with it, people do it because it helps their chances of winning.
My point was that I don't think it requires the same level as skill compared to when trying to out-manoeuvre an opponent, and as such I think there's a higher number of more defensive minded sparrers.

Have you ever sparred Brett, Ares, or Warhawk? These guys will run circles around you without getting hit.

ffcmike
08-07-2011, 03:54 PM
Have you ever sparred Brett, Ares, or Warhawk? These guys will run circles around you without getting hit.

And I'm not doubting that they're the top sparrers, I just mean in general.

Crono
08-07-2011, 04:03 PM
And I'm not doubting that they're the top sparrers, I just mean in general.

But we're talking about the best itt...

MysticX2X
08-08-2011, 04:18 AM
Have you ever sparred Brett, Ares, or Warhawk? These guys will run circles around you without getting hit.

I think that's an overstatement lol.

Luda
08-08-2011, 12:31 PM
Have you ever sparred Brett, Ares, or Warhawk? These guys will run circles around you without getting hit.

I think that's an overstatement lol.

Only that

Crono
08-08-2011, 04:26 PM
i dunno man ive seen some big plays comin out of warhawk a few years back

Luda
08-08-2011, 08:04 PM
Few years back maybe, I'm not gonna deny he's a good sparrer but compared to the other two he's a lot easier to hit

Crono
08-08-2011, 08:43 PM
word

hastalavista
08-09-2011, 02:46 PM
Can't name one sparrer, but the best are from N-pulse 05-06.

xXziroXx
08-09-2011, 03:11 PM
Can't name one sparrer, but the best are from N-pulse 05-06.

Hardly, the best ones are from Delteria.

ThomV
08-09-2011, 03:17 PM
From my experience the best ones were from Classic.

hastalavista
08-09-2011, 04:13 PM
Hardly, the best ones are from Delteria.

idk, i played Delteria spar tournies once in a while and not once finished outside semi-finals regardless i'm only above avarage sparrer.

I'd like to hear some good Delteria sparrers, because i don't know any except maybe Prado & Thallen.

papajchris
08-09-2011, 05:29 PM
Some Zone sparrers are beast. The way they go pew pew and such. But really, there can't be a "best" sparrer unless he/she is best on all servers including Zodiac, Era, UN, Delt, Zone, etc.

Rufus
08-09-2011, 05:32 PM
Some Zone sparrers are beast. The way they go pew pew and such. But really, there can't be a "best" sparrer unless he/she is best on all servers including Zodiac, Era, UN, Delt, Zone, etc.

lol

Unkownsoldier
08-09-2011, 09:01 PM
Weren't there some players on Delteria's spar ranking system with like 3000+/75 rate? It could have been off of spar laming, but if it was legit they would be pretty good..

papajchris
08-10-2011, 12:56 AM
Pew pew

MysticX2X
08-10-2011, 04:04 AM
Weren't there some players on Delteria's spar ranking system with like 3000+/75 rate? It could have been off of spar laming, but if it was legit they would be pretty good..

People on Unholy Nation also had that sort of rate before the reset.

Pimmeh
08-10-2011, 12:03 PM
Weren't there some players on Delteria's spar ranking system with like 3000+/75 rate? It could have been off of spar laming, but if it was legit they would be pretty good..

The rating is just compared to wins and losses, right? Or does the rating give you points for defeating higher rating opponents and such as well?

Unkownsoldier
08-10-2011, 01:26 PM
The rating is just compared to wins and losses, right? Or does the rating give you points for defeating higher rating opponents and such as well?

Rating is based off of wins and losses. Yet, if you beat someone with a lower rating you will gain less points. If you beat someone with a higher rating, you will gain more points. So let say your rating is 2000/75, and you spar players with a rating of 1300/75, it would take a long while to ever get to 3000. Yet, if you are sparring players with 1800/75-1900/75 it would be a little quicker but still take a while. Yet 1800-1900/75 sparers are generally pretty good.

hastalavista
08-10-2011, 07:34 PM
I doubt anyone has ever had legit 3000/75.