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SwimChao
03-17-2010, 12:19 AM
There's not much for me to say. I'm not going to try to vindicate myself. Allegedly, the PWA made a 3 to 1 vote to remove me from management. I made too many promises, and didn't follow through enough.

Backdraft was their selected replacement.

I don't know what I'll do in regards to Graal yet, if any of you were curious.

Nataxo
03-17-2010, 12:21 AM
Aww you were a cool manager :/ always nice to me.

Sad to see you go. Farewell!

and good luck to the new manager

Crono
03-17-2010, 12:22 AM
idc what they say, you were the best manager un has had in a long time

Imperialistic
03-17-2010, 12:24 AM
best manager since hoyt1134

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 12:27 AM
You could help @ classic iPhone :P

I was working graphics there in my free time, when I had the teams working on their projects. I told Xor I didn't have enough time once things started to double up for the release of the achievement system. He said he'd move me to a GP or something, but I ended up fired.

So be it.

Thank you anyway.

Vima
03-17-2010, 12:28 AM
I don't support this. Streety has been one of the few Managers on UN who have actually contributed something to it. Not like all the other Managers (not going to name any names). The Managers who never cared about releasing things when it actually had an decent playercount.

Deophite18
03-17-2010, 12:35 AM
My two cents:

While I think Backdraft is an all around okay guy, I am very skeptical at how he will do as Manager. He has the right attitude of an admin (non corruptible), however he lacks a lot of experience. Based on my personal experiences with him, I think he still had a LOT to learn in his previous position as GP Chief. He doesn't really know the ins and outs of RC, and now he has twice as many rights and ten times the responsibility. I am also afraid he has no idea on how to approach new developments and manage the team as a whole. And now that it is his responsibility all eyes are on him. Regardless, I guess only time will tell. Good luck and cya Streety.

Imperialistic
03-17-2010, 12:39 AM
My two cents:

While I think Backdraft is an all around okay guy, I am very skeptical at how he will do as Manager. He has the right attitude of an admin (non corruptible), however he lacks a lot of experience. Based on my personal experiences with him, I think he still had a LOT to learn in his previous position as GP Chief. He doesn't really know the ins and outs of RC, and now he has twice as many rights and ten times the responsibility. I am also afraid he has no idea on how to approach new developments and manage the team as a whole. And now that it is his responsibility all eyes are on him. Guess only time will tell. Good luck and cya Streety.

I agree with this 100%

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 12:42 AM
That's what I told Bell when she proposed several weeks ago that I move to development, and make someone else manager. She said that Backdraft would be a good replacement, and I agreed, but said that I wasn't planning on resigning yet. I believe I also told her that when I do decide to resign, Backdraft is the person I would take the time to train.

I just didn't have the nerve to stay on RC after the PMs she sent me. Call me selfish, but I'm only human.

Luda
03-17-2010, 12:46 AM
Could someone please fill me in on what Streety fully released? He was a player friendly manager so I can see why people are hating that he has been fired but does anyone have any legit facts of what he actually did productive? Even if it is one or two things, think about how long he's been manager, don't you think more stuff should of been released?

Streety don't get me wrong, you're a good guy but quit whining and subliminally asking for sympathy and just move on. Everyone else, stop the ****riding. Fact is fact.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 01:01 AM
I don't support this. Streety has been one of the few Managers on UN who have actually contributed something to it.

Streety contributed... what, exacty?

My two cents:

While I think Backdraft is an all around okay guy, I am very skeptical at how he will do as Manager. He has the right attitude of an admin (non corruptible), however he lacks a lot of experience. Based on my personal experiences with him, I think he still had a LOT to learn in his previous position as GP Chief. He doesn't really know the ins and outs of RC, and now he has twice as many rights and ten times the responsibility. I am also afraid he has no idea on how to approach new developments and manage the team as a whole. And now that it is his responsibility all eyes are on him.

RC isn't really that hard to navigate and learn. You raise very valid points but it's honesty not that hard.

He was a player friendly manager

"player friendly"? How do you define player friendly? He was downright notorious for putting players off.

Anyway, after the streak of bad Managers, hopefully BD can pull the staff team together and shape the server up.

Vima
03-17-2010, 01:11 AM
Could someone please fill me in on what Streety fully released? He was a player friendly manager so I can see why people are hating that he has been fired but does anyone have any legit facts of what he actually did productive? Even if it is one or two things, think about how long he's been manager, don't you think more stuff should of been released?
I haven't had the time to be on Unholy Nation so much the past months, but I think I've seen enough to be able to say that he is one of the few managers who have contributed something to UN. For Example: He have hosted many holiday events, some of them were really well planned I think, making sure that new events being released and being able to manage the staff.

A lot of people here should shush, you don't know how it is to be an manager on a server. Streety have started a few projects, like the pet system and achivement system that for me is a sign that he have done something, yes they are not completed. Is it his fault? No.
At the end of the day it's the staff fault. If the scripters were active enough, if the lats were active enough. There wouldn't have been this much delay.

Could anyone tell me, what did Spryte, Sub-Zero, WiKKiD, Malinko, NeoJenova... I mean the list could get looong, contribute to UN? When they were managing the server had a stable playercount and had loads of developement staff eager to work. What did they do? Nothing. When Streety took over the server it was allready in the hole.

Imperialistic
03-17-2010, 01:15 AM
I haven't had the time to be on Unholy Nation so much the past months, but I think I've seen enough to be able to say that he is one of the few managers who have contributed something to UN. For Example: He have hosted many holiday events, some of them were really well planned I think, making sure that new events being released and being able to manage the staff.

A lot of people here should shush, you don't know how it is to be an manager on a server. Streety have started a few projects, like the pet system and achivement system that for me is a sign that he have done something, yes they are not completed. Is it his fault? No.
At the end of the day it's the staff fault. If the scripters were active enough, if the lats were active enough. There wouldn't have been this much delay.

Could anyone tell me, what did Spryte, Sub-Zero, WiKKiD, Malinko, NeoJenova... I mean the list could get looong, contribute to UN? When they were managing the server had a stable playercount and had loads of developement staff eager to work. What did they do? Nothing. When Streety took over the server it was allready in the hole.

Sub-Zero - He helped alot with scripting projects

NeoJenova - Uhh, he single-handedly remade the gmap and was a big role in development.

Malinko - Was horrible, but yet again.. he did release a lot of content that is still used to this day

p.s. you're forgetting the other 10 managers on UN xD

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 01:15 AM
I just wanna throw it out there, that I only posted this because they hadn't made a news post about it on UN yet.

I was getting PMs from people asking if it was true.

pluto
03-17-2010, 01:16 AM
i never saw this coming.....

Luda
03-17-2010, 01:18 AM
What is the managers purpose? To manage the server and the staff, if he did that correct then he would of been a good manager. Cool, he started the pet system and never finished it! Right on! Achievement system, whats that? No one is speaking about Spryte, WiKKiD, Malinko or Neo Jenova because they are no longer managers and for their own individual reasons.

fowlplay4
03-17-2010, 01:20 AM
RC isn't really that hard to navigate and learn. You raise very valid points but it's honesty not that hard.

Learning RC and how to effectively manage rights, and work in NC isn't that hard at all but getting projects done properly without having to go about every aspect on your own can be very difficult and he will be running into situations like that if he's going to want to get things done.

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 01:30 AM
What is the managers purpose? To manage the server and the staff, if he did that correct then he would of been a good manager. Cool, he started the pet system and never finished it! Right on! Achievement system, whats that? No one is speaking about Spryte, WiKKiD, Malinko or Neo Jenova because they are no longer managers and for their own individual reasons.

Just another fyi, guys. I asked Gamerkid to carry on with the achievement system as we planned. It's planned release date was April 1st, along with some silliness to go with it.

I think Backdraft will encourage it's finish.

MysticX2X
03-17-2010, 02:06 AM
I think Streety was a cool person (most times), and was better at PR issues. However, I was not a fan of the directions or so called plans he took in development direction.

I am a bit skeptical in regards to Backdraft being placed at Manager, considering he hasn't been with UN that long, but from talking with him the past several weeks, I believe he can bring UN to a more brighter future.

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 02:23 AM
I think this is completely ridiculous. Streety is most definitely one of the best managers we've had in a very long time, and I don't think that Backdraft is qualified for manager position.

Streety was a stable manager, I think that the next managers following his removal will quit in a small amount of time from pressure. He could handle the pressure and was used to it, he did a lot of development also.

I think that Backdraft doesn't do any development.. aren't managers supposed to be a big part with GFX and scripting? I don't see what he will bring to the table x_x

He should at least be a part of the staff team, perhaps he could be GAT admin again? From what I hear, there was no warning about it. I think that the PWAs should have told him what he was doing wrong and to fix it instead of taking immediate action.

I really think this is a bad decision. D:

Crono
03-17-2010, 02:24 AM
aren't managers supposed to be a big part with GFX and scripting?

nop

coreys
03-17-2010, 02:28 AM
Malinko - Was horrible, but yet again.. he did release a lot of content that is still used to this day

A large majority of that content was stolen, mostly from Babylon, which Streety has been nothing but professional about getting removed.

I don't really play UN, but Streety has always been ok in my book, and he seemed like a competent Manager to me. Backdraft, what little I've seen of him, seems like he will do well too, though.

Adios, Streety.

LordSquirt
03-17-2010, 02:38 AM
I don't script/make graphics/make level, yet I'm manager of Era. Therefore, no you don't need development experience.

That doesn't mean i'm totally useless though, you learn things as you go on, so it's hard not to catch on to some things.

Imperialistic
03-17-2010, 02:50 AM
I don't script/make graphics/make level, yet I'm manager of Era. Therefore, no you don't need development experience.

That doesn't mean i'm totally useless though, you learn things as you go on, so it's hard not to catch on to some things.

You have Chris Vimes as Dev Admin, who needs a development-smart Manager XD!

knightfire35
03-17-2010, 02:50 AM
While you did not tend to some promises, you still contributed a lot. I would have liked to see what you could have accomplished had you continued in this position. You were one of the best managers UN has had in a while, at least from my point of few, and I'm sure most of the UN community will agree. I don't know the new manager that well, I've seen him around from time to time, but I can't say I'm sure he'll make a good manager, but hey, never know.

Take care, hopefully you'll stick around UN.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 03:06 AM
Vima.. most of the things released on UN were from last year. If anything was new, it was given to them by people from other servers. (i.e. Horses were scripted by Tig)


I think this is completely ridiculous. Streety is most definitely one of the best managers we've had in a very long time, and I don't think that Backdraft is qualified for manager position.

Streety was a stable manager, I think that the next managers following his removal will quit in a small amount of time from pressure. He could handle the pressure and was used to it, he did a lot of development also.

I think that Backdraft doesn't do any development.. aren't managers supposed to be a big part with GFX and scripting? I don't see what he will bring to the table x_x

He should at least be a part of the staff team, perhaps he could be GAT admin again? From what I hear, there was no warning about it. I think that the PWAs should have told him what he was doing wrong and to fix it instead of taking immediate action.

I really think this is a bad decision. D:


I'm .. sorry.. but you have no idea what you're talking about. Just because Streety is one of the few people that talk(ed) to you doesn't mean he's one of the best.

Streety couldn't handle being Manager. He went from being a very good and open Admin to being a very private and disclosed Manager.

Being able to develop =/= ability to Manage.

There was indeed a warning that his job was in danger, and Streety already confirmed this.

See how he said Bell came on and proposed he move into Development and let someone else be Manager? Big ****ing hint there.

It was a great decision. I just wished GK was made Manager instead but Backdraft will still be great.

Edit: I don't want to sound like I have anything personal against, Streety.

knightfire, how did Streety contribute anything?

Hiro
03-17-2010, 03:10 AM
wow this is ****ing stupid. it seemed like things were just getting going for streety, that he was just getting a hold of the actual development points and seeing where UN needed improvement, and the PWA fires him and puts, from my experiences, a egotistical friend-monger? the guy hasn't even been playing for more than three/four years, hasn't held any staff position other than GP (to which i considered him to be a bad one), and now he's manager?

for what purpose is this switch? what does the PWA hope to accomplish with this move? what exactly was streety doing wrong that needed him to be forcibly removed? this is ridiculous, and i didn't even like streety as manager: but don't replace him with someone worse! i mean, obviously the PWA isn't going to come into this thread and explain themselves to the likes of a simpleton-complainer like myself (because that makes every point i make invalid), but why can't you guys make some moves that people can actually get behind and approve of? if the problem was updates and development, then remove the manager of valikorlia and n-pulse too: we haven't seen any real updates out of them for way longer than streety has postponed

i swear i wouldn't play this stupid classic server if the only other option wasn't more terrible

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 03:21 AM
"egotistical friend-monger"
I've personally seen Backdraft publicly threaten his best friend on the game with jails.

"for what purpose is this switch?"
If you go to Streety's "thank you" thread on the UN forums, I feel as though Rufus' posts about him sums up his management quite nicely.

knightfire35
03-17-2010, 03:23 AM
knightfire, how did Streety contribute anything?

I guess that was a wrong word choice, I meant that he contributed to UN as a whole, not content wise, but he made sure everything was running smoothly. I think he tried to promise too much, and that's what kind of did him in. If he hadn't promised all those things, and focused on getting something released then maybe it would have went over well. I do agree that there are better management options, but he had a lot planned and would have liked to see how those projects turned out.

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 03:23 AM
I'm .. sorry.. but you have no idea what you're talking about. Just because Streety is one of the few people that talk(ed) to you doesn't mean he's one of the best.

I do know what I'm talking about, actually. :) Who are you to to tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about?

I've been playing UN for years, I've been through many managers and Streety was definitely one of the best that I've seen.

Streety couldn't handle being Manager. He went from being a very good and open Admin to being a very private and disclosed Manager.

He couldn't handle it? He managed the server for over a year. He proved that he could handle it.

how did Streety contribute anything?

Well, a completely re-done fishing system was released. He responded to every PM which most managers fail to do. We have had a very small GAT team, but he helped out. The ski-hill at Christmas was a huge success, not to mention numerous quests he made. :) If he had have been manager for two more weeks, he would have released the achievement system. After that would be the pet system.
Good things come to those who wait.

Hiro
03-17-2010, 03:25 AM
"egotistical friend-monger"
I've personally seen Backdraft publicly threaten his best friend on the game with jails.

"for what purpose is this switch?"
If you go to Streety's "thank you" thread on the UN forums, I feel as though Rufus' posts about him sums up his management quite nicely.how is this any different from any other server? why is streety being removed but others are not, and for the exact same ****?

Venom_Fish
03-17-2010, 03:31 AM
I don't script/make graphics/make level, yet I'm manager of Era. Therefore, no you don't need development experience.

That doesn't mean i'm totally useless though, you learn things as you go on, so it's hard not to catch on to some things.

Maybe they should say to be a "good" manager you need developmental skills. Haha, just kidding. Not about you being a bad manager but about needing Dev Skills to Manage.

Anyways, I never saw this coming; Streety. I always said you were currently the best management on a Classic Server. I admired UN staff's organization and competence alot, to be honest. It wasn't in comparison to the greatest, but even standalone, it functioned smoothly under you. For not fulfilling promisises? Get realistic, its politics. We don't expect people we ask to be placed in power to fullfill all their promises. Atleast you geared toward some if not most of them, you kept the server under control and populated. No abuse, if so; never heard of it. I'd have to say, this sounds really unfair on the PWA's part.

Backdraft is uncorruptable as far as I've seen, but I don't know him very well. So who knows; good luck.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 03:32 AM
I guess that was a wrong word choice, I meant that he contributed to UN as a whole, not content wise, but he made sure everything was running smoothly.

I can agree with you to an extent. At least Streety wasn't corrupt o_o as far as I know.


I do know what I'm talking about, actually. :) Who are you to to tell me I have no idea what I'm talking abouut

no you dont streety was a bad manager. Did you see my poll? Less than 20% of the voters disliked him. Whenever he has such a low approval rating, there's obviously something wrong

I've been playing UN for years, I've been through many managers and Streety was definitely one of the best that I've seen.


"i've played for a few years.. i must know what i'm talking about!!!" isn't valid logic.

He couldn't handle it? He managed the server for over a year. He proved that he could handle it.

Can you not read? He clearly couldn't handle being a Manager which is why he had such a drastic change in how he handled players. I think Spryte was better with players than Streety was. Spryte would just ignore you but Streety would pretend to be your friend and act like he'd get something done. At least Spryte didn't lie.

One example would be the completely re-done fishing system. :) If he had have been manager for two more weeks, he would have released the achievement system. After that would be the pet system.
Good things come to those who wait.

Achievement system is mostly done by GK, if not all of it.
The fishing system was scripted by Codein.. you know, the scripts that weren't copied/pasted from the mining system.

Fishing was the only thing Streety ever got done with UN staff in his 1+ year of management.

Hiro
03-17-2010, 03:38 AM
I can agree with you to an extent. At least Streety wasn't corrupt o_o as far as I know.




no you dont streety was a bad manager. Did you see my poll? Less than 20% of the voters disliked him. Whenever he has such a low approval rating, there's obviously something wrong




"i've played for a few years.. i must know what i'm talking about!!!" isn't valid logic.



Can you not read? He clearly couldn't handle being a Manager which is why he had such a drastic change in how he handled players. I think Spryte was better with players than Streety was. Spryte would just ignore you but Streety would pretend to be your friend and act like he'd get something done. At least Spryte didn't lie.



Achievement system is mostly done by GK, if not all of it.
The fishing system was scripted by Codein.. you know, the scripts that weren't copied/pasted from the mining system.

Fishing was the only thing Streety ever got done with UN staff in his 1+ year of management.
let's see you come up with one argument as to how backdraft is going to be any different. and remember: he can't develop on his own at all. i'd like to see the PWA come up with any similar notion that swayed their 3-1 vote to remove streety as well, especially given that they never log onto player (or RC for more than 10 minutes) and don't know anything about what's going on on UN

been playing graal for over 10 years now, and i've never seen the PWA remove a manager for a "lack of promises being kept"

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 03:41 AM
no you dont streety was a bad manager. Did you see my poll? Less than 20% of the voters disliked him. Whenever he has such a low approval rating, there's obviously something
There could be multiple reasons for players to vote no. Maybe they had a bad background with him, maybe they don't like his personality, maybe they don't get along with him, it doesn't necessarily mean that he was a bad manager. It means that the players didn't like him.

"i've played for a few years.. i must know what i'm talking about!!!" isn't valid logic.
It sounds pretty valid to me; I witnessed his management.

Can you not read? He clearly couldn't handle being a Manager which is why he had such a drastic change in how he handled players. I think Spryte was better with players than Streety was. Spryte would just ignore you but Streety would pretend to be your friend and act like he'd get something done. At least Spryte didn't lie.
LOL Spryte was better with players? I'm pretty sure Spryte was the worst manager we've had. She'd log on RC, chat, and log off. Streety was friendly to players and was very patient. As for Spryte not lying, she didn't talk to the server. How could she lie if she didn't talk?

Achievement system is mostly done by GK, if not all of it.
The fishing system was scripted by Codein.. you know, the scripts that weren't copied/pasted from the mining system.

Fishing was the only thing Streety ever got done with UN staff in his 1+ year of management.

read edited version :)

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 03:42 AM
Whenever a Manager is in position for over a year and only legitimately releases one thing (Fishing), then there is a huge problem ^_^

UC servers can develop less in a year than UN has under Streety.
When GK had his own ET Dev team, they generated more content than Streety ever did with an entire staff team.
Zodiac and Era develop more in a week than UN does in a year (especially Zodiac)

Streety uses silly excuses such as "lack of devs", and while that's true, why can all the other major servers develop but UN can't? Because Streety has no idea what he's doing.

There's a reason Bell proposed he stepped down.. He didn't listen and look what happened.

Edit: Okay Elizabeth, please note all of Streety's accomplishments as Manager.
So far we have..
- Destruction of the PR teams.
- A simple fishing system.
- Leaving UN in somewhat of a mess (leaving players to deal with their woes while he promised to do something about their problems but then just ran around on staff boots)

Care to add on?

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 03:44 AM
Have you seen our staff list? Our development teams have been going through crisis for the past while o_o

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 03:45 AM
We have a full LAT team, a few NATs, and.. well, we had a GAT.
UN was fully capable of getting things done just like Zodiac and Era. Streety just held the server back, tbh.

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 03:47 AM
LAT, NAT and GAT team just hired, yet there are still no GATs. :)

Absolut_Crono
03-17-2010, 03:49 AM
All I can say is lol to this argument. I dont even feel like addressing everything that is wrong with this topic, but in short:

Fumanchu, how can you claim he destroyed the PR teams, and yet not argue against a manager who was the admin of one of those teams?


Achievement system is mostly done by GK, if not all of it.
The fishing system was scripted by Codein.. you know, the scripts that weren't copied/pasted from the mining system.



Fumanchu again, how can you complain that a manager didnt release a system because they didn't do all the work? He was the manager not the micromanager of server projects.

Anyways I'm off this topic. Hopefully it gets closed soon enough since nothing productive will ever come out of it.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 03:49 AM
LAT, NAT and GAT team just hired, yet there are still no GATs. :)

TooTy has been LAT for a few months (hired before Christmas) and is spectacular and loves to work.

Luca and Alex have been NATs for awhile. GK is good too but is working on that system.

Streety was a decent GAT.

Together, Streety, Luca, and TooTy by themselves could have at least made UN a little less horrible.

Hiro
03-17-2010, 03:50 AM
All I can say is lol to this argument. I dont even feel like addressing everything that is wrong with this topic, but in short:

Fumanchu, how can you claim he destroyed the PR teams, and yet not argue against a manager who was the admin of one of those teams?




Fumanchu again, how can you complain that a manager didnt release a system because they didn't do all the work? He was the manager not the micromanager of server projects.

Anyways I'm off this topic. Hopefully it gets closed soon enough since nothing productive will ever come out of it.nothing productive comes out of firing streety either, but it certainty happened

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 03:52 AM
TooTy has been LAT for a few months (hired before Christmas) and is spectacular and loves to work.

Luca and Alex have been NATs for awhile. GK is good too but is working on that system.

Streety was a decent GAT.

Together, Streety, Luca, and TooTy by themselves could have at least made UN a little less horrible.


And they did. Luca did a lot of behind the scenes work, TooTy fixed Town Center and did event levels (?), Streety did tons of work for holidays to make UN festive! Alex did a loooot of NAT work too.

A point was made that 1 out of the 4 PWAs actually log on UN once in a while, and that's Bell. How do they actually know what kind of job he's doing?

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 03:54 AM
All I can say is lol to this argument. I dont even feel like addressing everything that is wrong with this topic, but in short:

Fumanchu, how can you claim he destroyed the PR teams, and yet not argue against a manager who was the admin of one of those teams?




Fumanchu again, how can you complain that a manager didnt release a system because they didn't do all the work? He was the manager not the micromanager of server projects.

Anyways I'm off this topic. Hopefully it gets closed soon enough since nothing productive will ever come out of it.

FAQ and ET teams are/were horrible. GP has been alright for awhile because BD knows what he's doing.

I can think of quite a few people that applied as FAQ/ET and were rejected because Streety didn't like them. Especially with ET, recently. I won't say their names but Allona wanted to hire them but Streety wouldn't let her. Now we're stuck with a bunch of horrible ETs that never pay attention in events.

I can't say the names of the FAQ applicants without permission, but since snoop said I could - yeah. He was ET Admin before and wanted to be ET again. Way better than Shannon/Ph8/and whatever else scrub FAQs there are.

Nothing was released on UN during his management that UN staff made except fishing. woo

Absolut_Crono
03-17-2010, 03:55 AM
I agree, I really do. I don't see how the PWA think firing a Manager without talking to him about exactly what needs to be changed can ever help the server progress in a better direction. Not only that, but to put Backdraft in the position without having enough time to learn the ins and outs of the other staff teams, at the minimum the scripting side, is unfair to him. The whole situation is laughable to be honest, but this topic wont make a difference.

And while I am thinking about it, LOL at the person who posted a poll. How many players do you think actually come to these forums to even vote on those that you use that as a reference? If anything, it is most likely players from other server who don't like UN.

Deuces.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 03:57 AM
And they did. Luca did a lot of behind the scenes work, TooTy fixed Town Center and did event levels (?), Streety did tons of work for holidays to make UN festive! Alex did a loooot of NAT work too.

A point was made that 1 out of the 4 PWAs actually log on UN once in a while, and that's Bell. How do they actually know what kind of job he's doing?

lol are you ****ing kidding me?
Luca would try to fix things but Streety would undo his edits.
TooTy did a lot and wanted to do more but Streety would give her a hard time for asking for rights when she wanted to service players asking for guild houses to be updated or to fix other level issues.
Streety didn't do "tons of work". He recycled content sz made for holidays.

Did I mention how Luca wanted to develop a few things but needed a custom tileset for it? Guess which graphics maker said he'd help him but didn't..

Edit: Crono, I know you're hurt that your friend that let you sit on the FAQ team and BD Donuts for ages while you gave little to no care to it is fired, but please.. take your assumptions elsewhere.

Absolut_Crono
03-17-2010, 03:58 AM
As far as FAQ applicants are concerned, that would have been my decision to reject the candidates you are talking about. I rejected them for one of 2 reasons.

1. They were recent staff reapplying for a job they figured would give them rights without responsibility.

or

2. They simply were not good enough.

We had a total of 25 applications over the last 3 FAQ hirings. That isn't anyone's fault, it is a fact.

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 04:01 AM
lol are you ****ing kidding me?

Funny, I was thinking the same thing when I read this:
FAQ and ET teams are/were horrible. GP has been alright for awhile because BD knows what he's doing.

I can think of quite a few people that applied as FAQ/ET and were rejected because Streety didn't like them. Especially with ET, recently. I won't say their names but Allona wanted to hire them but Streety wouldn't let her. Now we're stuck with a bunch of horrible ETs that never pay attention in events.

I can't say the names of the FAQ applicants without permission, but since snoop said I could - yeah. He was ET Admin before and wanted to be ET again. Way better than Shannon/Ph8/and whatever else scrub FAQs there are.

Nothing was released on UN during his management that UN staff made except fishing. woo

Are you ****ing kidding me? We have an awesome ET team! They do weekly tournaments, and are active everyday. We don't have a FAQ team because it isn't needed. I'm almost 100% sure that Allona and other team admins don't need Streety's permission to hire cadets.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 04:11 AM
Yay, a piss poor attempt to be clever.
The ET team is mediocre. Sure, two of them host a lot but none of them really pay attention in events, which leads to people cheating a LOT. Pretty lame considering other candidates that weren't hired because Streety doesn't like them.

I remember Allona posted a message on the UN forums that suggested she wasn't very thrilled with her choices of ETs but she had to make due with the people who don't pay attention in events because there were very little applications for it. Whenever the ETA implies something like this, there is a problem ^_^

Still waiting for you to list off Streety's accomplishments as Manager..

Flares
03-17-2010, 04:18 AM
List our recent Managers and their "Accomplishments".

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 04:19 AM
Yay, a piss poor attempt to be clever.
The ET team is mediocre. Sure, two of them host a lot but none of them really pay attention in events, which leads to people cheating a LOT. Pretty lame considering other candidates that weren't hired because Streety doesn't like them.

I remember Allona posted a message on the UN forums that suggested she wasn't very thrilled with her choices of ETs but she had to make due with the people who don't pay attention in events because there were very little applications for it. Whenever the ETA implies something like this, there is a problem ^_^

Still waiting for you to list off Streety's accomplishments as Manager..

I listed them in a previous post. :)

Could you please tell me which two ETs host a lot?

Flares
03-17-2010, 04:22 AM
I remember Allona posted a message on the UN forums that suggested she wasn't very thrilled with her choices of ETs but she had to make due with the people who don't pay attention in events because there were very little applications for it. Whenever the ETA implies something like this, there is a problem ^_^


First of all, when Allona said this it's because there just weren't a lot of players that applied, PERIOD. Why would you? ET is one of the most-scrutinized and least-enjoyable staff jobs. I can assure you that if anyone personally vetoed someone from a PR job like ET, it would be me, not Streety.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 04:25 AM
List our recent Managers and their "Accomplishments".

Streety
- Fishing system that no one uses
- Staying as Manager for over a year while doing next to nothing

sub-zero
- Made the Halloween and Christmas events that Streety recycled.

Malinko
- New mining that no one uses anymore because someone under Streety's management nerfed it
- New shops
- Made the server fun
- Giant PK war
(yes, Malinko was very, very corrupt, but he actually made UN fun)

Spryte
- Staying as Manager for awhile while doing nothing

II can assure you that if anyone personally vetoed someone from a PR job like ET, it would be me, not Streety.

No, it was actually Streety.

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 04:31 AM
No, it was actually Streety.

Can you please prove this? You seem very sure of yourself.

dubby230
03-17-2010, 04:33 AM
I think PWA made a bad decision and carried out their decision in a very unprofessional manner by just firing Streety like that. On the bright side though it is less stress and drama for him; being a manager isn't always that fun. Sorry to see you go Streety :( hopefully you'll stick around Graal for a bit longer.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 04:35 AM
No, not really Kay.
Globals seem to have a history of taking forever to fire bad Managers (Master Storm, Spryte x2). I'm glad they seem to not letting history repeat itself because I actually want to see UN become fun again.

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 04:38 AM
Look, I'm not getting involved in the arguments. I try to stay as far away from these as I possibly can, but I just need to input a few things.

I don't know where you're getting all your information, but you are making a lot of invalid points.

Luca would try to fix things but Streety would undo his edits.
I never once refuted, or undid anything he did. I like to think the two of us had a fairly mild relationship, and had no problems. I supported any changes he did, and was always enthusiastic about it.

The one thing I asked him to do, was stop testing all of his work in Town Center, or OSL. Lots of times things get left on accident, and I didn't want to subject players to unfinished work, or potentially harmful npcs. I did also request he informs me of what he changed, because I liked to be updated on what exactly is going through the server. That was my job, afterall.

TooTy did a lot and wanted to do more but Streety would give her a hard time for asking for rights when she wanted to service players asking for guild houses to be updated or to fix other level issues.
I never once gave TooT a hard time for any rights she asked for, so long as she had a rational reason when asking for them. The two of us butted heads when I made her LAT Admin, because I felt like she was taking too much at a time, but that was a one time thing. The only Guild House problem the two of us had, was that she didn't get the rights to the hat folder to lay hats, because UN has a hat db that you have to run them through prior to placing a level NPC.

Streety didn't do "tons of work". He recycled content sz made for holidays.
That is just absurd. Do you realize that the Winter prior to my promotion to "Manager" sz and I BOTH worked on the holiday? It was a joint thing, and was how he taught me the vines and branches of management. Anything other than that was completely original, and spawned from my imagination -- or brought back for nostalgic reasons (ie. Ski Slope (but recall the quests, which were all of my invention).

Every holiday since my management has been of my mind, and of my staff's hard labor. As Absolut_Crono said, do you expect the manager to develop everything on the server on his own? I am not a scripter. I am a graphics artist. I did my part, and gave credit where it was due. The only thing that wasn't sourced from me, was Rufus', Dusty's, Crono's, (etc) hard work on the Winter 2009 present system, which came out beautifully.

People hop aboard a staff job knowing that it's for the team, and not for themselves. Me and GK work together very closely on the achievement system, to the point where I had him updating me three times a week via my personal email (so I could read and reply on my phone, when I was out of the house) on what changes he made.

Did I mention how Luca wanted to develop a few things but needed a custom tileset for it? Guess which graphics maker said he'd help him but didn't..
Yes, I told Luca I would try to get his graphics done. On the same note, however, I'm managing (managing, not creating) the other projects going on with the server; which include things like the TCPK updates for kill counters, and kill streaks, trying to get the fixes made to town spar, guild battle arenas for a suggested Guild Center TooT and I discussed amongst the team.


I don't mean to come off conceited, either. I wasn't God's gift to management. We worked together though, for the most part, and really made solid attempts to get things done. Perhaps I could have done more to assure promises such as the "pet system" would have been released, by making backups frequently of the files. I was still new to the trade, though, and these are mistakes one must make in order to learn. I would have never expected the scripter to quit the way he did, and leave the system in shambles.

When my promises went bad, I made sure that I tried to make it up in some way or another to server. Finding trustworthy staff members to make sure those promises will pull through is a difficult feat in today's day on Graal.

You also need to realize that there isn't a lot that I can sit down and add to UN. Things need to be thought through, and 90% of the ideas I come up with to add are thrown out. I couldn't follow past management's mistake of simply uploading content, over content, over content. I tried that approach early in my management by working on things like CS, Fishing, the Aquarium, Seaport updates in general (which fell through because of lack of script hands) with Joe. It doesn't work out. It results in clutter, mess, and unused releases on the server.

Things like the achievement system were an innovative approach to try and integrate new things into the server, as opposed to simply adding.

On a last note, remember that my early management was wasted cleaning up after Malinko, and other management/staff. You weren't involved internally, so you don't know the extent of garbage we had to sift through. I owe a lot of thanks to Rage, Luca, and the other developers for that help. We all made a solid attempt to change UN for the better, and not simply add fuel into the fire (in this case, the fire being a decaying server)... Because eventually, it would have burned up in our faces.



Edit: By the way, I went back and read the bit about recycling the Halloween events, which shows how much you've researched your argument. I came up with the prompt for the last 2 Halloweens when Crowfeather was Manager, and said he wasn't going to do anything for the holiday. I was GAT Admin, and put together the idea of the Halloween town (Evenvale), quests, etc. I utilized favored events like the hat contests to appeal to artists, and other types of contest for other interested people. The holidays were where I buckled down the hardest, to attempt and make up for lost time.

dubby230
03-17-2010, 04:42 AM
No, not really Kay.
Globals seem to have a history of taking forever to fire bad Managers (Master Storm, Spryte x2). I'm glad they seem to not letting history repeat itself because I actually want to see UN become fun again.

My post was just to display my opinion and not to start an argument. My opinion on the situation is my own just like yours is.

As a side note, congratulations to Backdraft on becoming Manager.

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 04:46 AM
I googled good manager qualities, this is the result. I bolded the qualities that I think he demonstrated. The link is: http://www.projectsmart.co.uk/top-10-qualities-project-manager.html

Inspires a shared vision
Good Communicater
Integrity
Enthusiasm
Empathy
Competence
Ability to delegate tasks
Team-building skills
Problem solving skills

7/10? I think that's pretty good.

Imperialistic
03-17-2010, 04:50 AM
I would like to see what Bell has to say about the whole situation, and see the great reason the PWA had to remove Streety the way they did.

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 04:50 AM
agreed

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 04:56 AM
Edit: By the way, I went back and read the bit about recycling the Halloween events, which shows how much you've researched your argument. I came up with the prompt for the last 2 Halloweens when Crowfeather was Manager, and said he wasn't going to do anything for the holiday. I was GAT Admin, and put together the idea of the Halloween town (Evenvale), quests, etc. I utilized favored events like the hat contests to appeal to artists, and other types of contest for other interested people. The holidays were where I buckled down the hardest, to attempt and make up for lost time.

Recycling = using the same thing over again.. which you did. The only thing different this Halloween was the Wolf "quest" which IIRC required the player to just stand there in place slashing at the NPCs coming toward them. Then there was the Wolf fight which was pretty easy. Any 5 year old could do it.

By the way, I said something confusing earlier "I can't say the names of the FAQ applicants without permission, but since snoop said I could - yeah. He was ET Admin before".

I meant to say I couldn't list off any examples of FAQs rejected by you (they wouldn't want me) but I could give an example of an ET: snoop.

Edit: Anyway, Streety. I'm really sorry things had to play out the way they did. Whenever you were an Admin I thought you'd be a great choice when sz quit but you really just couldn't seem to get a handle on the whole thing. I know you really tried to get things done but you quickly began to become an unpopular Manage with how you handled players. This is why I agree with the PWA's decision: You took too long to get anything done so now it's someone else's turn to try to turn the server around. Good luck to you in whatever you choose to do and good luck to Backdraft.

Absolut_Crono
03-17-2010, 04:58 AM
Streety summed up exactly what I was typing out about those quests too. I remember when he and Sub worked on those Holidays, and was about to set the record straight on it. The Holiday events that took place were ONLY because Streety wanted them done and worked to make them happen. If you have any Holiday items it is because of Streety's work to make holidays more enjoyable.

On a side note, I watched as many developers came along and offered help on one system or another and then subsequently dropped that project. Do you think it doesn't bother Streety to see these projects get dropped? Most of the ideas for these come from Streety himself, and as a staff who worked with him I can tell you he was FAR more excited about the projects than the average player, and suffered a far greater blow when they didn't come to fruition than any other Manager I have ever known.

If you dont like him because your friend didnt get hired for a position because they were not qualified than that is your choice, but Streety was by far the most competent person to run this server right now. Even now on UN there are people complaining FAR more that he is gone than people who are glad. The PWA made a unilateral decision to remove him without consulting him, the players, or the rest of the Staff team, and were wrong for it.

salesman
03-17-2010, 04:58 AM
Streety seems to care about the server, was he inactive or something? As someone who has been through a lot of management bull****, I just can't see the PWA removing him without a good reason.

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 05:03 AM
Refurbished, would probably be a better term. I reused the concept of the Halloween town this year (that I created) from last year, and put more spins and twists on it. The only real reusing I did, was taking the cupid NPC I had made for Valentines day last year, and using it the way it was this year.

I never said "NO!! DO NOT HIRE THIS PERSON!!". There were people, that as manager, I strongly implored not to hire. I voiced my opinion about these people, and left it at that. As Vicious said, I assigned him to the task of handling hirings. If anyone told a team admin that they couldn't hire a specific person, it was him, and always for good reason.

There were several FAQs I strongly implored not to hire as well. They were the ones who had been hired before, and were fired for either inactivity, or malicious use of rights. I am a stickler for rehiring staff who were fired for inactivity. I always allowed administrators to weigh the scenario on their own, though.

We didn't even have a blacklist like there was when I was hired as GAT, under subzero, and Spryte's dual management.

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 05:04 AM
Streety seems to care about the server, was he inactive or something? As someone who has been through a lot of management bull****, I just can't see the PWA removing him without a good reason.

I was not inactive, and was on every day lining up our projects. I'm trying to be as meek about asserting myself as I can here.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 05:05 AM
If you dont like him because your friend didnt get hired for a position because they were not qualified than that is your choice, but Streety was by far the most competent person to run this server right now. Even now on UN there are people complaining FAR more that he is gone than people who are glad. The PWA made a unilateral decision to remove him without consulting him, the players, or the rest of the Staff team, and were wrong for it.

LOL Wow Crono you must be really upset.
I don't dislike him because he didn't hire my friend. It just adds onto the fact he's a bad Manager if he's going to allow crap to get hired over someone who would be good because of a personal grudge.

maximus_asinus
03-17-2010, 05:05 AM
I'm not going to bother reading through the last few pages, I just wanted to say that Streety was an excellent Manager when I worked under him briefly. He represents everything I would look for in a Manager.

Absolut_Crono
03-17-2010, 05:17 AM
I'm not upset, I just don't understand your logic in saying that to be honest. I was the person hiring FAQs, and not once did he say "Don't hire this person. Pick someone else." In fact, he gave his opinion about Scipio and I still hired him. The fact remains that you are assuming he didnt hire someone over a grudge, when he isn't really involved in the hiring much at all, only needing to give RC and rights when necessary. The fact remains that the more likely case is that your friends were not qualified for the job to which they applied, or were former staff who did not perform well near the end of their last time as staff.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 05:18 AM
In fact, he gave his opinion about Scipio and I still hired him.

Should have listened to him.

papajchris
03-17-2010, 05:21 AM
Should have listened to him.

You JUST said like three posts up that it wasn't right that Streety voiced his opinion on who not to hire because he has "personal grudges"

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 05:22 AM
You JUST said like three posts up that it wasn't right that Streety voiced his opinion on who not to hire because he has "personal grudges"

Wow you people seriously make me want to hit my head off a desk.
Where did I say anything about Streety having a grudge against Scipio?

snoop413
03-17-2010, 05:24 AM
I never once refuted, or undid anything he did. I like to think the two of us had a fairly mild relationship, and had no problems. I supported any changes he did, and was always enthusiastic about it.

not according to him. and why are you saying you two had no problems? i remember you forcing yourself into a skype call with me and a few other people and started talking **** about luca, saying how you are looking for a reason to fire him and he pisses you off.

I never once gave TooT a hard time for any rights she asked for, so long as she had a rational reason when asking for them. The two of us butted heads when I made her LAT Admin, because I felt like she was taking too much at a time, but that was a one time thing.

wrong. and besides, she was the only LAT and she did a ton of work. why wouldn't you make her LAT admin? if you never had she would still be the only one.

Yes, I told Luca I would try to get his graphics done.

think he said he waited 6 months for those graphics.

If you have any Holiday items it is because of Streety's work to make holidays more enjoyable.

most of these items were ones people already had.

I never said "NO!! DO NOT HIRE THIS PERSON!!". There were people, that as manager, I strongly implored not to hire. I voiced my opinion about these people, and left it at that.

they are practically the same thing.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 05:27 AM
not according to him. and why are you saying you two had no problems? i remember you saying yourself you were looking for a reason to fire luca.

Kind of like how he harassed Sting2Dope every day looking for a reason to fire him?

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 05:33 AM
not according to him. and why are you saying you two had no problems? i remember you saying yourself you were looking for a reason to fire luca.

I said we had a mild relationship. The only problem we had, I brought up, which was an ongoing debate between the two of us.

wrong. and besides, she was the only LAT and she did a ton of work. why wouldn't you make her LAT admin? if you never had she would still be the only one.

Wrong? Could you provide me with some examples of when I gave her a hard time? I had decided to make here LAT Admin several days after Vega001 emailed me his resignation. I didn't want to make it official until I knew she was going to be active. Old staff (which she is, having been hired multiple times) have a tendency to show up, and disappear within a month or two of being hired. As management, can you blame me for being cautious?

Yes, I told Luca I would try to get his graphics done.

His tiles didn't come high on my priority list. Things come up, they get pushed down, and lost in the shuffle. I honestly don't know what to tell you. Management is a big plate to chew, and sitting down and doing a list of tiles is a time consuming process. Note the keyword try, bud!

I never said "NO!! DO NOT HIRE THIS PERSON!!". There were people, that as manager, I strongly implored not to hire. I voiced my opinion about these people, and left it at that.

It was my job to voice my opinion to the administration. Saying "No", and doing my job (voicing my opinion) are two entirely different things. You guys are running in circles with this, but I just can't help but think you don't have all the facts. Assumptions are turning this entire conversation into a deadly battle of slander. I really don't like my name being soiled, because I do my best to keep my nose clean.

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 05:37 AM
Kind of like how he harassed Sting2Dope every day looking for a reason to fire him?

Harassed? Sting2Dope was GP Chief, and if I recall correctly, went through some family issues. I was totally understanding, and give him a lot of time to get things sorted out.

If harassing him is asking him to get active after that allotted time, I really don't know how to do my job. Again, you guys don't have the facts. I can't think of an unbiased party who was present though, who would be able to attest for me.

MysticX2X
03-17-2010, 05:41 AM
No, not really Kay.
Globals seem to have a history of taking forever to fire bad Managers (Master Storm, Spryte x2). I'm glad they seem to not letting history repeat itself because I actually want to see UN become fun again.
Master Storm was never removed by globals. He agreed to step down when his job relocation was going to take up a majority of his time. That's the funny part. Classic has been the only case where I've seen globals forgo such management inactivity/non-direction.


If you dont like him because your friend didnt get hired for a position because they were not qualified than that is your choice, but Streety was by far the most competent person to run this server right now. Even now on UN there are people complaining FAR more that he is gone than people who are glad. The PWA made a unilateral decision to remove him without consulting him, the players, or the rest of the Staff team, and were wrong for it.

You do realize several staff complaints were filed in with a huge complaint made by Staff, and players right?

I saw Streety's removal coming. Streety has already told us that Bell suggested him stepping down from Manager to Dev.. That would of been a sure hint he was lacking in management.

Believe me, I thought Streety was good at PRA issues. He was totally compliant with me when an arrogant member of Staff reset mine and several other players' ep who picked it up when a former asst eta mass dropped them in the etcenter.(I hd about 200-300 originally) Really, what kind of player wouldnt pick up ep lying on the ground? (And this arrogant person is still Staff to this day!). He always wanted to get more people playing UN, trying to become diplomatic with most of the playerbase, and did organize quite a few things such as possible observer mode removal to help the effort.

As a manager I thought he was lacking in development direction. He was pretty random in development direction and didn't focus on what needed the most attention on UN: Just exactly how do you play this tangled server?

Most of the pressing issues a player needs to first encounter weren't really hands-on by Streety. The Noob Course is currently a mess (worse than what it was originally imo), and has been made public by Staff that they were going to redo it. I dont think Streety has been hands on about that really.

Weeks ago I suggested the idea to backdraft of redoing the player quests to make them better linked to each other/non crappy so players could understand them and go through them better. Toot wanted to go ahead with it, but Streety didn't want to place priority on it, which is incredibly baffling and frustrating. Especially when Iphone players check out this game in spite of curiosity.


The achievement system should be a great success, but my gut feeling tells me that with barely anything to do outside of events now, it won't become overly successful. I can't really dispute anything about it as we will just have to wait to see how it goes.

He and Cron removed the FAQ Team, which I thought was incredibly absurd, and used the excuse of a non staff members site for the faq team. It's okay to have a site explaining what to do on UN, but it should only serve as a supplement, and really doesn't explain everything on UN.

All staff were then instructed to act as help to players, which is understandable, but a lot of staff are busy with other issues. He placed Cron on the PRA division, which I honestly don't find much useful right now. Theres only 2 non staff-related divisons as of now and Backdraft, before he came manager, had been handling PR issues quite well.

Lastly, the pet system wasn't really something Streety should of placed high emphasis on. UN is a classic server, not an RPG. It may be a fun side issue, but I can tell you several touching issues related to classic gameplay which should of been addressed. (And I really mean no offense to anyone who worked on it or is currently working on it, if current management decides to keep pursuing that system).

All in all, I think Streety's removal was pretty justified. I really hope you don't take major offense to this streety; I think youre a good person, just not the most ideal manager for UN at this time.

Streety can be beneficial if he chooses to come back as a GAT or something, but his management direction wasn't what I would consider ideal.

My two cents plainly put. It's an opinion, after all.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 05:43 AM
Sting had a completely different story than what you just told.
Just like TooTy, Luca, and everyone else.
I guess all these staff members must have randomly decided to spread lies about you..
Whenever enough people say the same thing about you (things like "streety's biased") then there is obviously a reason for it.

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 05:51 AM
I don't understand why you're supporting Sting. He has to be one of the rudest players on UN..

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 05:57 AM
Sting was an ******* and I didn't like him personally, but he did his job as GP Chief and if he said about Streety was true, then he definitely didn't deserve it.

Absolut_Crono
03-17-2010, 05:59 AM
I like Sting and all, but he didn't really do all that good of a job as GP Chief near the end...

He had family issues from what we were told, and couldn't be on much. But his issues were like 4 or 5 months long...

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 06:00 AM
I can't really do my own arguing about myself here. Other staff members, especially those whom you spoke with, have not interjected into the topic yet.

If I did all of the things I'm being accused of doing, then by all means, I agree to me being removed. But I never did them, and I never would. I was always professional, and strongly stressed professionalism to my staff team. My intentions are still, and have always been in the better interest of the server.

@Mystic:
I was very enthusiastic about redoing the newbie course, and the like. There's not much I can do there, though. It's all levels, and TooT seemed to want to take this project head on. Administrators deserve a certain amount of freedom to do this. If I ever disagreed, I would have clearly said so.

As for the quests... This something delicate within the UN community, and something that I would have preferred to discuss as a team, when we're ready to direct our full attention towards it. I told TooT that I wanted to do it, but I wanted to wait a little while. We have three major projects going on simultaneously, and a bunch of other little ones to go along with it. I felt the need to moderate the amount of work we take off, so that I don't find myself, and the server, let down if we find that we can't finish it all.

It's a matter of focusing resources.

You haven't been with the server internally enough to see that navigating this messed up server has been my motive from day one. All the talk about how past management have made a labyrinth of garbage releases, and broken items. It's all rooted back to this, and the idea that I want nothing more than to organize the server. I have always wanted to make it more user friendly.

fowlplay4
03-17-2010, 06:20 AM
UN's NC + Level scripts needs to be gutted and revamped badly the clutter from so many years now still remains (which was apparent when I visited/helped with the christmas event).

It was a tough hand Streety was dealt unfortunately it ended up like this.

Hiro
03-17-2010, 06:44 AM
still waiting on that PWA response as to why they removed streety. a lot of speculation and insults are flying when it could be summed up in one post by a PWA member. that is, of course, that the reason they give is a legitimate one

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 07:10 AM
Of course we had disagreements, but we always sorted them out in a professional manner. Towards the beginning, I admit that my mind was a little preoccupied. You weren't ignored, but I can't recall if I stressed that to you. With a lot of shifts in the staff team, there's just a certain level of control over development I needed to keep. Once you expressed your feelings about the subject, I took the extra effort to discuss with you. I didn't mind putting off something to talk, and then taking the extra time to finish it up later.

The point raised in this topic, is that I gave you a "hard time" for rights when you requested them. Never once when you asked for rights, did I give you a problem. All of your requests were rational, and I you were almost always given them immediately after we discussed them.

Imperialistic
03-17-2010, 07:36 AM
I hope to god people just don't start creating stuff without thinking **** through. I have to admit.. Streety did a good job of controlling stuff like that.

Fulg0reSama
03-17-2010, 07:48 AM
I googled good manager qualities, this is the result. I bolded the qualities that I think he demonstrated. The link is: http://www.projectsmart.co.uk/top-10-qualities-project-manager.html

Inspires a shared vision
Good Communicater
Integrity
Enthusiasm
Empathy
Competence
Ability to delegate tasks
Team-building skills
Problem solving skills

7/10? I think that's pretty good.

LOL. Okay elizabeth I didnt read pages 6 and 7 in this thread but i hope you realized you just posted up a double edged sword.

No ability to delegate tasks? Okay I get it, we will all run around like headless chickens and do random assignments, Team building skills is also needed as a management, What good is a manager who can't build a team properly? Integrity is not too terrible but it hurts more and shows as manager as much as he has tried, He didn't do enough as this whole thread is about. Sorry to hear you go streety you did somewhat keep UN stable. Personally I miss subzero as manager, he was a pretty damn good manager while he lasted and probably could've done more. But anyhow I hope you can relax now about this crap streety.


Inspires a shared vision
Good Communicater
Integrity
Enthusiasm
Empathy
Competence
Ability to delegate tasks
Team-building skills
Problem solving skills


Fixed.

coreys
03-17-2010, 08:59 AM
I like how she didn't highlight integrity.

xAndrewx
03-17-2010, 09:02 AM
That's a shame I must say, but the PWA wouldn't remove you from management without a reason. The PWA are an awesome group of people if you ask me.

Cubical
03-17-2010, 09:06 AM
you must have done something because really bad because they didn't touch maniaman after being inactive for like 2 years when he managed maloria.

SwimChao
03-17-2010, 09:07 AM
I sure wish I would be enlightened on exactly what it is I did that is so terrible. I hate feeling like the bad guy.

Imperialistic
03-17-2010, 09:11 AM
That's a shame I must say, but the PWA wouldn't remove you from management without a reason. The PWA are an awesome group of people if you ask me.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_k9YRGIDlJZw/SmwzWklG9wI/AAAAAAAABKE/Oy0pKYGQfvA/s400/kissing-ass.jpg

xAndrewx
03-17-2010, 09:31 AM
rofl S.T.F.U!!! LOL

Mykel
03-17-2010, 09:40 AM
Although I can't really weigh in on the subject of Streety being replaced too much because I don't play UN enough, I do have to say that I think the PWA/Global staff team should be doing other things to help Graal.

This might help it in some small way. That remains to be seen. But, even if it does, it will be something very small. Legit or not, bigger things seem to be getting overlooked.

jorollychu
03-17-2010, 09:50 AM
Wow Backdraft? So much for Kevin Azite ever getting fairly given access to UN ever again.

xnervNATx
03-17-2010, 12:09 PM
I don't support this. Streety has been one of the few Managers on UN who have actually contributed something to it. Not like all the other Managers (not going to name any names). The Managers who never cared about releasing things when it actually had an decent playercount.

he never released anything except the holidays events....even there its was the same as 07-08 x.x

TSAdmin
03-17-2010, 12:31 PM
I know a lot of you are wanting to hear from the PWA as to the thought process leading to Streety's removal and going by this thread, apparently it was no secret that it was "3-to-1". I am not sure how those numbers were made public. Regardless, unfortunately I can't really provide a specific and clear response for those of you who are upset and/or disappointed by this outcome, as I must admit that I was the "1".

On that same note, there are those of you who don't really care what the PWA's deciding argument was or the votes, you just care that Streety was removed as it's what you wanted. Perhaps rather than jumping back and forth between each other saying "So what has Streety done for UN?" or "He was awesome, I don't understand", those of you who were for Streety's removal - step up and just say, in the event you were involved in a vote, why you voted for his removal. Be honest, because when all's said and done, the PWA only looked at Streety because the community came to us first. The PWA don't simply act unless we're made aware of something being wrong in the first place.

That said, it had been discussed in the global forum back and forth about why Streety should or shouldn't have been removed but at the end of the day, perhaps I missed something which is why I put it to the greater community to help me understand why it came to this. As I said, essentially there's no escaping the fact that you as the community brought this to the PWA's attention and now the deed's done. If there's something to say, I would really like to understand it myself. It's not just about me though, I'm sure Streety wouldn't mind getting some feedback rather than leaving on a "Well damn, too bad" note.

xnervNATx
03-17-2010, 12:33 PM
I know a lot of you are wanting to hear from the PWA as to the thought process leading to Streety's removal and going by this thread, apparently it was no secret that it was "3-to-1". I am not sure how those numbers were made public. Regardless, unfortunately I can't really provide a specific and clear response for those of you who are upset and/or disappointed by this outcome, as I must admit that I was the "1".

On that same note, there are those of you who don't really care what the PWA's deciding argument was or the votes, you just care that Streety was removed as it's what you wanted. Perhaps rather than jumping back and forth between each other saying "So what has Streety done for UN?" or "He was awesome, I don't understand", those of you who were for Streety's removal - step up and just say, in the event you were involved in a vote, why you voted for his removal. Be honest, because when all's said and done, the PWA only looked at Streety because the community came to us first. The PWA don't simply act unless we're made aware of something being wrong in the first place.

That said, it had been discussed in the global forum back and forth about why Streety should or shouldn't have been removed but at the end of the day, perhaps I missed something which is why I put it to the greater community to help me understand why it came to this. As I said, essentially there's no escaping the fact that you as the community brought this to the PWA's attention and now the deed's done. If there's something to say, I would really like to understand it myself. It's not just about me though, I'm sure Streety wouldn't mind getting some feedback rather than leaving on a "Well damn, too bad" note.

mostly unkeep promises he made.

Fulg0reSama
03-17-2010, 12:34 PM
I sure wish I would be enlightened on exactly what it is I did that is so terrible. I hate feeling like the bad guy.

From what Ive read, It seems more like that what "you did" is nothing at all.

I know a lot of you are wanting to hear from the PWA as to the thought process leading to Streety's removal and going by this thread, apparently it was no secret that it was "3-to-1". I am not sure how those numbers were made public. Regardless, unfortunately I can't really provide a specific and clear response for those of you who are upset and/or disappointed by this outcome, as I must admit that I was the "1".

On that same note, there are those of you who don't really care what the PWA's deciding argument was or the votes, you just care that Streety was removed as it's what you wanted. Perhaps rather than jumping back and forth between each other saying "So what has Streety done for UN?" or "He was awesome, I don't understand", those of you who were for Streety's removal - step up and just say, in the event you were involved in a vote, why you voted for his removal. Be honest, because when all's said and done, the PWA only looked at Streety because the community came to us first. The PWA don't simply act unless we're made aware of something being wrong in the first place.

That said, it had been discussed in the global forum back and forth about why Streety should or shouldn't have been removed but at the end of the day, perhaps I missed something which is why I put it to the greater community to help me understand why it came to this. As I said, essentially there's no escaping the fact that you as the community brought this to the PWA's attention and now the deed's done. If there's something to say, I would really like to understand it myself. It's not just about me though, I'm sure Streety wouldn't mind getting some feedback rather than leaving on a "Well damn, too bad" note.

http://www.33ff.com/flags/XL_flags/Switzerland_flag.gif

Ich bin Neutral!

TSAdmin
03-17-2010, 12:36 PM
mostly unkeep promises he made.

Like what? Bring everyone to your eyes. It's all about you right now, I'm asking you:
What was the difference to you between a manager who perhaps needed reminding of a promise made but unkept and a manager who should be removed? If a manager is slipping, he needs a kick in the butt, no doubt. Why vote removal?

Swiss flag image

Not sure I follow. I'm not Swiss :s

Demisis_P2P
03-17-2010, 01:00 PM
yo it really sucks when this happens.
i feel ur pain streety.

Crono
03-17-2010, 01:23 PM
Not sure I follow. I'm not Swiss :s

means you're neutral :3

Fulg0reSama
03-17-2010, 02:47 PM
Crono got it right, Also doesn't take a guy from Switzerland to figure out German o_o

adam
03-17-2010, 04:00 PM
Am I under the impression it was decided Streety was a bad manager and needed to be replaced without ANY attempt AT ALL to let him know it was thought he was not doing a good job?

"Yeah, bye the way, were going to fire you if you don't live up to our standards. We will not tell you what these standards are, we will not tell you if you are not living up to them, one day you will just be removed. You will be given zero opportunity to change or to satisfy us."

It's like going to work, and getting fired 3 weeks later for some rules in a handbook they refused to let you read.

Liberated
03-17-2010, 04:16 PM
Am I under the impression it was decided Streety was a bad manager and needed to be replaced without ANY attempt AT ALL to let him know it was thought he was not doing a good job?


From what i understood they somehow did let him know they thought he could better be replaced.\/
That's what I told Bell when she proposed several weeks ago that I move to development, and make someone else manager.

adam
03-17-2010, 04:19 PM
From what i understood they somehow did let him know they thought he could better be replaced.\/

Oh. well that's good. I guess it was just because it was so sudden at the time.

Rufus
03-17-2010, 04:39 PM
First Backdraft failure = Making Streety "Developer" staff. Not a good start in my eyes.

Elizabeth
03-17-2010, 04:50 PM
I know a lot of you are wanting to hear from the PWA as to the thought process leading to Streety's removal and going by this thread, apparently it was no secret that it was "3-to-1". I am not sure how those numbers were made public. Regardless, unfortunately I can't really provide a specific and clear response for those of you who are upset and/or disappointed by this outcome, as I must admit that I was the "1".

On that same note, there are those of you who don't really care what the PWA's deciding argument was or the votes, you just care that Streety was removed as it's what you wanted. Perhaps rather than jumping back and forth between each other saying "So what has Streety done for UN?" or "He was awesome, I don't understand", those of you who were for Streety's removal - step up and just say, in the event you were involved in a vote, why you voted for his removal. Be honest, because when all's said and done, the PWA only looked at Streety because the community came to us first. The PWA don't simply act unless we're made aware of something being wrong in the first place.

That said, it had been discussed in the global forum back and forth about why Streety should or shouldn't have been removed but at the end of the day, perhaps I missed something which is why I put it to the greater community to help me understand why it came to this. As I said, essentially there's no escaping the fact that you as the community brought this to the PWA's attention and now the deed's done. If there's something to say, I would really like to understand it myself. It's not just about me though, I'm sure Streety wouldn't mind getting some feedback rather than leaving on a "Well damn, too bad" note.

I don't understand why he was removed without warning? I, personally, do not consider Bell suggesting he drop down a warning.

Deas_Voice
03-17-2010, 05:19 PM
i cant say that i agree with this, streety is one of the best UN managers in my eyes.
with that said, i'll miss streets.

salesman
03-17-2010, 06:00 PM
yo it really sucks when this happens.
i feel ur pain streety.

Perfect example of how enough crying and personal ambition can get a perfectly fine manager removed over the slightest little things. Although, in your case, the PWA didn't really investigate the situation at all. Houdiniman just logged on RC, asked everyone what we though about you, and pretty much made a decision in what seemed like a few minutes. :p

For some reason it seems like the PWA just needs to flex its muscles from time to time. I truly hope that's not how Streety's situation went down at all.

MysticX2X
03-17-2010, 06:17 PM
Perfect example of how enough crying and personal ambition can get a perfectly fine manager removed over the slightest little things. Although, in your case, the PWA didn't really investigate the situation at all. Houdiniman just logged on RC, asked everyone what we though about you, and pretty much made a decision in what seemed like a few minutes. :p

For some reason it seems like the PWA just needs to flex its muscles from time to time. I truly hope that's not how Streety's situation went down at all.

That's what I told Bell when she proposed several weeks ago that I move to development, and make someone else manager.

Seems like it was in deliberation for a while.

salesman
03-17-2010, 06:36 PM
Seems like it was in deliberation for a while.

I was referring more to how the PWA made its decision, not how long it took them. You can take as long as you want and still make a bad decision based off of a bunch of biased whiners' opinions :p

I'm not accusing the PWA of doing this because I really have no insight on the situation other than what I've read in this thread-- I'm just saying that it has definitely happened in the past. Although based off of TSAdmin's response, I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility.

Cloven
03-17-2010, 06:52 PM
In my experience it was obvious that Streety at least cared about UN to an extent. He was by far the least troublesome in what has become a lineage of piss-poor management on UN. I personally quit helping UN out while Malinko was still a manager (what a nightmare), and, absolutely refused to manage UN all three times I've been asked in the past few years due to the various sociopolitical drama that is both excessive and inherent at this point.

I will admit that I do at times find it ironic when the PWA step in on UN, as it seems to be selective considering the multitude of issues that have occurred there that I've been privy to... though I suppose it's relative as this 'selectivity' seems to be the case in general regarding both Classic and UC servers.

On Graal it seems anymore that most people have inferiority issues, an axe to grind, and/or an ulterior motive of some sort with just about everything. This alone is the reason for a general lack of cohesion and subsequently the downward spiral of the game.

Dnegel
03-17-2010, 07:33 PM
Man, this sucks.

FuManchu
03-17-2010, 08:11 PM
First Backdraft failure = Making Streety "Developer" staff. Not a good start in my eyes.

Not really a failure thus far.
Streety is the type of person that is only a good asset to the team when he has a boss (as shown by his time as GAT Admin/Admin). He has a boss now :)

King homer daStupid
03-17-2010, 09:12 PM
Whilst not largely contributing to the physical development of the server (then again, it can be hard to in times like these), Streety certainly contributed to the stability of the server.

And goodluck to Backdraft!

Tigairius
03-17-2010, 10:39 PM
In short, the majority of the PWA feels that Streety is an asset to Unholy Nation, but not as a manager. For many months now we have received reports of development staff feeling disgruntled with Streety's management style and overall we are aware that a lot of the players were unhappy with his handling of player relations, or sometimes, lack thereof (consistently referring people away, even for the simplest of questions). There were also several other reasons that have been riddled throughout this thread, but the reality of it is really quite clear.

Everyone should be aware that Streety was not forced out of his position without any reserve; when approaching such situations we try to be as delicate as possible to avoid disrupting harmony and development as much as we can. Streety was given fair notice and was kept aware of our actions throughout a lot of the latter parts of the process (up to being politely asked to resign).

We know Streety has a lot of friends on Unholy Nation and is quite the charismatic person to be around if you know him, but there have been a lot of instances where favoritism has come to be a problem during his management as well.

Hiro
03-17-2010, 11:19 PM
In short, the majority of the PWA feels that Streety is an asset to Unholy Nation, but not as a manager. For many months now we have received reports of development staff feeling disgruntled with Streety's management style and overall we are aware that a lot of the players were unhappy with his handling of player relations, or sometimes, lack thereof (consistently referring people away, even for the simplest of questions). There were also several other reasons that have been riddled throughout this thread, but the reality of it is really quite clear.

Everyone should be aware that Streety was not forced out of his position without any reserve; when approaching such situations we try to be as delicate as possible to avoid disrupting harmony and development as much as we can. Streety was given fair notice and was kept aware of our actions throughout a lot of the latter parts of the process (up to being politely asked to resign).

We know Streety has a lot of friends on Unholy Nation and is quite the charismatic person to be around if you know him, but there have been a lot of instances where favoritism has come to be a problem during his management as well.
as well as the PWA not liking some of the manager methodology and imploring favoritism in the negative. if streety doesn't have a clear explanation for why he was removed, what makes you think he was informed during the process?

That said, it had been discussed in the global forum back and forth about why Streety should or shouldn't have been removed but at the end of the day, perhaps I missed something which is why I put it to the greater community to help me understand why it came to this. As I said, essentially there's no escaping the fact that you as the community brought this to the PWA's attention and now the deed's done. If there's something to say, I would really like to understand it myself. It's not just about me though, I'm sure Streety wouldn't mind getting some feedback rather than leaving on a "Well damn, too bad" note.
Like what? Bring everyone to your eyes. It's all about you right now, I'm asking you:
What was the difference to you between a manager who perhaps needed reminding of a promise made but unkept and a manager who should be removed? If a manager is slipping, he needs a kick in the butt, no doubt. Why vote removal?
i completely agree with these points, specifically that streety was really just getting a handle on the numerous problems plaguing UN. if anything, he's being kept on as a developer would indicate how personally he has gotten to know the problems at hand, but now that he knows he can't lead the projects? it's all fine and dandy to remind a manager what needs to get done, results are needed; but give the guy some time as not even last week he posted about fixing problems...it takes some groups months to get things going

MysticX2X
03-18-2010, 12:06 AM
as well as the PWA not liking some of the manager methodology and imploring favoritism in the negative. if streety doesn't have a clear explanation for why he was removed, what makes you think he was informed during the process?
A lot of people think what they're doing is correct. Maybe Streety was just unaware a lot of people were uncomfortable with what he was doing.


i completely agree with these points, specifically that streety was really just getting a handle on the numerous problems plaguing UN. if anything, he's being kept on as a developer would indicate how personally he has gotten to know the problems at hand, but now that he knows he can't lead the projects? it's all fine and dandy to remind a manager what needs to get done, results are needed; but give the guy some time as not even last week he posted about fixing problems...it takes some groups months to get things going

Over a year isn't enough time? I don't know if you've played UN enough in the past year to know that it has been lacking and wasnt being focused very correctly at all.

Hiro
03-18-2010, 12:49 AM
Over a year isn't enough time? I don't know if you've played UN enough in the past year to know that it has been lacking and wasnt being focused very correctly at all.
a lot of the issues were not brought up a year ago, so that isn't the correct increment of time in which to say streety hasn't produced anything. it has probably taken months to compile and completely understand the issues with UN, both for players, staff, scripts, systems, and projects. and this seems to be overshadowing the in-game forums came in under his management, and how much of a success is that currently? if anything that's the single biggest update UN has seen in years, albeit not one i personally enjoy

and i would know: i've been on UN actively for more than just the past year, though i can never seem to break through into staff like i used too and have a deeper insight into the background problems

Nataxo
03-18-2010, 01:17 AM
Graal Drama!

Venom_Fish
03-18-2010, 02:12 AM
To be honest, there isn't really a better way to handle Managers/Servers than the method used now. The PWA take into account the complaints/requests of players, and act based upon that. As an owner would in regards to his consumers. If the consumers are dissatisfied with an employee or Management, he'd have to take care of that for the sake of the overall business.

Of course, unfortunate things happen due to this process, but there are cons to everything. As idealistic as it is, the PWAs cannot watch all the Managers and base decisions simply from that, and therefore require the feedback from those impacted by his/her decisions; the players.

Their purpose given to Streety seems like one developed by players more than Administration, it looks relayed, if anything. Turn your focus to players, and as the saying goes "The great of the many, overcomes the good of the few." So it most-certainly wasn't one person, as of now, I can tell that there isn't a vast majority that are against this decision. They may not speak allowed about it for fear of prosecution, but they're there.

So look over your shoulders, before you look straight ahead at the PWAs. Of course, no matter where you look, it won't solve a damn thing. So suck it up, and lets see what this guy does. Every dog has its day, there'll come a time where Streety can take the position again, if its meant to be. Most he can do as of now, is sit in the passenger seat and rest his body from a long drive.

Absolut_Crono
03-18-2010, 02:16 AM
In short, the majority of the PWA feels that Streety is an asset to Unholy Nation, but not as a manager. For many months now we have received reports of development staff feeling disgruntled with Streety's management style and overall we are aware that a lot of the players were unhappy with his handling of player relations, or sometimes, lack thereof (consistently referring people away, even for the simplest of questions). There were also several other reasons that have been riddled throughout this thread, but the reality of it is really quite clear.

Everyone should be aware that Streety was not forced out of his position without any reserve; when approaching such situations we try to be as delicate as possible to avoid disrupting harmony and development as much as we can. Streety was given fair notice and was kept aware of our actions throughout a lot of the latter parts of the process (up to being politely asked to resign).

We know Streety has a lot of friends on Unholy Nation and is quite the charismatic person to be around if you know him, but there have been a lot of instances where favoritism has come to be a problem during his management as well.

So let me understand this, if Development staff don't get what they want a Manager gets fired? You have Managed a server before. Are you seriously telling me that the retarded ideas that come from these staff should be entertained? Have you seen what that has lead to? Xelt redid TC without permission adding lava and all kinds of random things. Xelt added a huge ugly pirate ship. Xelt added a "forest maze" and water to a random spot of our GMAP that used to be fun to drive your car through. The ideas that these "disgruntled dev staff" were coming up with were likely ones that were pointless, or not a priority. It's the Manager's JOB to decide whether a project is relevant or not, not the Dev staff who want to work on their own projects.

And as for directing people away? Let me hit you with this. Do you remember how hard it was to get a response from Spryte when she was on RC? It could literally take HOURS LOL. At least he has the common courtesy to direct you to someone who has the ability to help you to the full extent instead of giving you the cold shoulder totally or giving you half-answers. Besides that, it's our job as PR Staff to deal with the majority of Player Related issues. That's why Player Relations exist. What's the point of having a PR Admin, FAQs and a FAQ Admin, GPs and and a Chief, etc. if Streety has to take the time out to answer someone "how do I get to point x" everytime someone asks him or "how much is y worth?" or "Unban my friend plzzz he's changed honest!!!" You're not being reasonable. If we couldn't handle our jobs that's when it becomes Streety's priority.

Now you say he wasnt forced out? How does Bell saying "Maybe you should step down" constitute asking him to resign? That sounds more like someone acting as though they are concerned for you, not that you are about to be forcibly removed.

I dont even want to get into favoritism with you Tig. Let's leave that at that.

Absolut_Crono
03-18-2010, 02:20 AM
I apologize for the double post, but
To be honest, there isn't really a better way to handle Managers/Servers than the method used now. The PWA take into account the complaints/requests of players, and act based upon that. As an owner would in regards to his consumers. If the consumers are dissatisfied with an employee or Management, he'd have to take care of that for the sake of the overall business.


Normally you'd get written up, and in that write-up it is explained to you what you did and what is expected. Trust me, I was a Union Steward and I know this process very well. This is the stuff grievances are made of. The real issue is will Stefan arbitrate over it or not, because if the PWAs are going to stick with their decision in order to not look like fools a third party would be required.

Imperialistic
03-18-2010, 02:41 AM
decisions can't be undone cron.

Hiro
03-18-2010, 03:00 AM
decisions can't be undone cron.yes they can, it's simply that in doing so the implications are very staggering to the ego. actions can be fine as long as they have proper reasoning behind it, and this action taken by the PWA has seemingly little reason behind it, hence the thread and it's contents

MysticX2X
03-18-2010, 03:27 AM
a lot of the issues were not brought up a year ago, so that isn't the correct increment of time in which to say streety hasn't produced anything. it has probably taken months to compile and completely understand the issues with UN, both for players, staff, scripts, systems, and projects. and this seems to be overshadowing the in-game forums came in under his management, and how much of a success is that currently? if anything that's the single biggest update UN has seen in years, albeit not one i personally enjoy

and i would know: i've been on UN actively for more than just the past year, though i can never seem to break through into staff like i used too and have a deeper insight into the background problems
I've complained about the NPC's months ago. I've complained about the economy months ago. Myself and many players have complained about all the useless crap Malinko had here many months ago. I complained how the pet system wasn't the best focus of the server months ago.

Should I go on? I really have nothing against Streety, but it's really absurd to think the server was going in tip top shape and that he shouldnt of shed most of the blame. The in-game forums was a personal project of Rage. I am not absolutely sure if Streety even had influence on the creation of that, but someone can enlighten me there.

You keep expressing rage against the pwa for their decision; What exactly do you find wrong with the management choice? Most of the community seems to be in agreement with the new manager, with just a few disagreeing how the PWA went about it. Are you disgruntled with the new manager or just PWA in general? It's not really the PWA who abruptly removed Streety for no reason, but the incoming complaints from players and Staff.

So let me understand this, if Development staff don't get what they want a Manager gets fired? You have Managed a server before. Are you seriously telling me that the retarded ideas that come from these staff should be entertained? Have you seen what that has lead to? Xelt redid TC without permission adding lava and all kinds of random things. Xelt added a huge ugly pirate ship. Xelt added a "forest maze" and water to a random spot of our GMAP that used to be fun to drive your car through. The ideas that these "disgruntled dev staff" were coming up with were likely ones that were pointless, or not a priority. It's the Manager's JOB to decide whether a project is relevant or not, not the Dev staff who want to work on their own projects.

Woah Woah, Cron. No need to call out the developers who actually make the content on this server, and tell them they shouldn't have a say. From what I was told, it wasn't just a few of the staff who complained, but many. Xelt is just one person and many people abhorred some of the changes he had done as LAT Admin. It just wasn't Streety who did.

As Venom_Fish had said the post before, everyone really needs to let it go and move on. I know Backdraft has excellent ideas and a good vision. Streety is still on dev and still can voice his opinion while also helping backdraft accustom into his own position.

Imperialistic
03-18-2010, 03:27 AM
sorry, I should have put "decisions won't be undone cron."

Venom_Fish
03-18-2010, 03:37 AM
So let me understand this, if Development staff don't get what they want a Manager gets fired? You have Managed a server before. Are you seriously telling me that the retarded ideas that come from these staff should be entertained? Have you seen what that has lead to? Xelt redid TC without permission adding lava and all kinds of random things. Xelt added a huge ugly pirate ship. Xelt added a "forest maze" and water to a random spot of our GMAP that used to be fun to drive your car through. The ideas that these "disgruntled dev staff" were coming up with were likely ones that were pointless, or not a priority. It's the Manager's JOB to decide whether a project is relevant or not, not the Dev staff who want to work on their own projects.


I dont even want to get into favoritism with you Tig. Let's leave that at that.

Agreed in regards to Tig.
In any event, I'm not sure if you were rebudding my post or supporting it. In regards to yours, I'd fully agree pertaining to Developers having to put time into what the Manager assigns them rather than them undertaking projects of their own. Thats the Management's job, and they should have to sign off on all things released, seeing as its their neck at the end of the day. I've always said that, Developers should be "yes" men. Not in entirety, but their work should be the product of the management, not of their own wild ideas. They can request or suggest things but not take the liberty to making things a priority without the conscent of the Management or Administration. Most they should do without permission is speak. Sounds dark, but its really ideal and the best way to handle things. This is of course, only if the Management knows what he wants and what he's doing.

Hiro
03-18-2010, 04:44 AM
I've complained about the NPC's months ago. I've complained about the economy months ago. Myself and many players have complained about all the useless crap Malinko had here many months ago. I complained how the pet system wasn't the best focus of the server months ago.

Should I go on? I really have nothing against Streety, but it's really absurd to think the server was going in tip top shape and that he shouldnt of shed most of the blame. The in-game forums was a personal project of Rage. I am not absolutely sure if Streety even had influence on the creation of that, but someone can enlighten me there.

You keep expressing rage against the pwa for their decision; What exactly do you find wrong with the management choice? Most of the community seems to be in agreement with the new manager, with just a few disagreeing how the PWA went about it. Are you disgruntled with the new manager or just PWA in general? It's not really the PWA who abruptly removed Streety for no reason, but the incoming complaints from players and Staff.

i'm "disgruntled" over the way it was operated, not with the new management (though personally i think it's a weird choice) or the PWA in general

King homer daStupid
03-18-2010, 04:47 AM
The ideas that these "disgruntled dev staff" were coming up with were likely ones that were pointless, or not a priority. It's the Manager's JOB to decide whether a project is relevant or not, not the Dev staff who want to work on their own projects.Not actually my own ideas - they came straight from my superiors at the time. So yes, it was the Manager's job, and it was his decision at the time. Get your facts straight.
Xelt added a huge ugly pirate ship.Requested by Joe when he was Admin.
Xelt added a "forest maze" and water to a random spot of our GMAP that used to be fun to drive your car through.Requested by Crowfeather when he was Manager, whether or not the players or simply Streety & yourself disliked it meant that it was changed; which is fair enough.

My point is that I rarely did things of my own accord/without my superior's permission, they were ultimately the manager's decision - so I hardly find it fair that you blame me.

snoop413
03-18-2010, 06:27 AM
And as for directing people away? Let me hit you with this. Do you remember how hard it was to get a response from Spryte when she was on RC? It could literally take HOURS LOL. At least he has the common courtesy to direct you to someone who has the ability to help you to the full extent instead of giving you the cold shoulder totally or giving you half-answers.

when i was ET/ETA and asked spryte something she always replied. (note i didn't like spryte whatsoever). every time i ask streety something he doesn't reply because he's idling. i have heard this from many people.

Absolut_Crono
03-18-2010, 06:53 AM
Not actually my own ideas - they came straight from my superiors at the time. So yes, it was the Manager's job, and it was his decision at the time. Get your facts straight.
Requested by Joe when he was Admin.
Requested by Crowfeather when he was Manager, whether or not the players or simply Streety & yourself disliked it meant that it was changed; which is fair enough.

My point is that I rarely did things of my own accord/without my superior's permission, they were ultimately the manager's decision - so I hardly find it fair that you blame me.

Xelt let me clarify, I'm not saying you did things without permission, with the exception of that TC thing. I am saying it was your job to follow your manager's orders, not decide to do things on your own. If you were told to do those jobs than that is solely the fault of those managers and I respect that fact and apologize for assuming you made the 2 random areas of the GMAP of your own volition, but my point remains firm that you did that because that's what you were told to do as a dev staff. You pretty much agreed with me then, saying that you were ordered to do that.

My point in mentioning you was mostly that Dev staff, while not needing to be completely silenced, are not hired for their opinions. They are hired because they draw, level, or script well. If Dev staff complain because their vision of the server does not match the Manager's how is that the Manager's fault? Ultimately as a dev, you dev what the manager wants, not what you want. If you don't you're worthless to the server. You were doing what you were told, and thus in my opinion were a very good dev staff who produced what management at the time wanted.

when i was ET/ETA and asked spryte something she always replied. (note i didn't like spryte whatsoever). every time i ask streety something he doesn't reply because he's idling. i have heard this from many people.

Are you aware that you are probably one of the very few people to think that about Spryte? I am friends with her and even I am not blind to the fact that she didn't respond to the PMs of players in a timely manner. The facts are the facts.

Okilian
03-18-2010, 08:26 AM
I read all 9 pages, I feel proud of myself.

In the end, I think all this bickering is going to get no where. Like it or not, these things happen. What matters most is not necessarily who is on top, but what's being done to the server. If the server is being led in the right direction, is that not the ultimate goal?

Having been a staff on UN, you see people come and go in the high up spot. I feel as though a majority of managers did all right. None did superb (maybe Liquid his first time around), and only a few did ****ty (AcidIce would just give people stuff). But overall, it happens. We move on. We adapt to the situation and strive to make it better. Does it happen all the time, no.

As for what happened to Streety himself, yeah it kind of sucks. Though not the first time it's been done on UN still never a good thing. In my times talking with Streety he seems like a chill dude. I will give my help to Backdraft and hope others do the same. He is the manager, whether you like it or not. Instead of *****ing about the process, just support the end.

Just my thoughts.

Tigairius
03-18-2010, 08:45 AM
So let me understand this, if Development staff don't get what they want a Manager gets fired? You have Managed a server before. Are you seriously telling me that the retarded ideas that come from these staff should be entertained? Have you seen what that has lead to? Xelt redid TC without permission adding lava and all kinds of random things. Xelt added a huge ugly pirate ship. Xelt added a "forest maze" and water to a random spot of our GMAP that used to be fun to drive your car through. The ideas that these "disgruntled dev staff" were coming up with were likely ones that were pointless, or not a priority. It's the Manager's JOB to decide whether a project is relevant or not, not the Dev staff who want to work on their own projects.

And as for directing people away? Let me hit you with this. Do you remember how hard it was to get a response from Spryte when she was on RC? It could literally take HOURS LOL. At least he has the common courtesy to direct you to someone who has the ability to help you to the full extent instead of giving you the cold shoulder totally or giving you half-answers. Besides that, it's our job as PR Staff to deal with the majority of Player Related issues. That's why Player Relations exist. What's the point of having a PR Admin, FAQs and a FAQ Admin, GPs and and a Chief, etc. if Streety has to take the time out to answer someone "how do I get to point x" everytime someone asks him or "how much is y worth?" or "Unban my friend plzzz he's changed honest!!!" You're not being reasonable. If we couldn't handle our jobs that's when it becomes Streety's priority.

Now you say he wasnt forced out? How does Bell saying "Maybe you should step down" constitute asking him to resign? That sounds more like someone acting as though they are concerned for you, not that you are about to be forcibly removed.

I dont even want to get into favoritism with you Tig. Let's leave that at that.
Yes, I remember how difficult it was to get a response from Spryte, and she was removed as manager just as well.

I have given you almost no specific information about the situation and you seem to be jumping directly to conclusions that the only PMs Streety pushed away were PR-related, which is not true. Not everything can nor should everything be handled by PR staff, there are certain things that require managerial attention.

Please, if you have some problems with any of my actions (and suspect favoritism) I would like for you to express your concerns to me privately via forum PM so that I may correct them (or contact my direct superior, Bell) because I do not favor anyone on Graal.

Luda
03-18-2010, 09:56 AM
i do not favor anyone on graal.
lol

Fulg0reSama
03-18-2010, 10:40 AM
That's somewhat odd, Whenever I'd pm streety I wasn't really ignored really. I mean maybe id wait but wasn't ignored necessarily. weird. As fun this thread is to bicker and argue on. Hasn't this thread somewhat finished up? No use poking a dead body with a stick (Though it is fun)

Imperialistic
03-18-2010, 11:29 AM
Cron, no offense.. But Streety is a big boy, he can handle his own situation.

CharlieM
03-18-2010, 05:23 PM
See here's what I don't get, I barely play UN yet I saw that Streety was doing some work. A lot more then one of Era's managers was doing and he had manager a lot longer, and they let him step down. It's BS that streety got fired but all it takes is 1 person complaining based on when demisis got fired from manager because someone complained that he didnt answer PM's.

Streety did good as manager from what I saw when I was on UN, but w.e.
Also most of the people I saw posting were neutral so obviously theres a lot of the community afraid to share there views, or most didn't care.

joel34
03-18-2010, 05:30 PM
So what are Streety gonna do now?

Cubical
03-18-2010, 05:33 PM
So what are Streety gonna do now?
/dance?

Fulg0reSama
03-18-2010, 06:01 PM
I saw posting were neutral so obviously theres a lot of the community afraid to share there views, or most didn't care.

I posted my thoughts about it, But no offense to streety but I couldn't care less about this whole thing :)

Okilian
03-18-2010, 07:39 PM
/dance?

+1

Bell
03-18-2010, 08:43 PM
I personally do not like making a public spectacle of any management change. I feel it does no good for the server or the parties involved in the change. This situation did not end as I would of wished and both Backdraft and myself have left doors open with Streety that I hope he decides to take.

I agree that in some things it could of been handled differantly but hindsight is 20/20 and no managerial change is perfect. Even those done by the manager themselves often have their problems. I've explained myself at length to Streety so he's fully aware of how we came about this decision now. He may not agree but thats his choice and I respect his opinion of it.

There has been many comparisons with past UN management in this and other threads and we can all agree on one thing. Streety was a good manager while he was still actively managing. Just recently he's given myself and the other globals the strong sense he's burning out. He may not have seen it himself but its there. Instead of going down in flames and leaving Graal on a sour note. I would far prefer to have him take some time away from the pressure of management and stay interested in the server itself.

You may or may not agree with me on this, it really doesn't matter to me. This was the decision that was made in what we felt was in the best interests of the server and Streety and thats just how it is. This wasn't the first controversial judgement made by the PWA and I'm sure it won't be the last. Its just the nature of the beast.

Clockwork
03-18-2010, 10:08 PM
He may not agree but thats his choice and I respect his opinion of it.


Obviously your respect doesn't mean very much if you take the word of an anonymous email more highly than Streetys and TSAdmins (and some of us here in this thread).

Bell
03-18-2010, 10:52 PM
Obviously your respect doesn't mean very much if you take the word of an anonymous email more highly than Streetys and TSAdmins (and some of us here in this thread).

I do believe I explained myself to Streety himself quite clearly.

zephirot
03-18-2010, 10:58 PM
Streety has always been cool with me, answering my PM almost instantly etc etc, so I don't understand where you're all coming from.
But eh I'm the PWA around here.

Fulg0reSama
03-18-2010, 11:27 PM
Current Status of thread
Players of UN: Mixed feelings but mostly pissed
Non Players: Mixed as well but mostly sad

Conclusion: People have made their say of the matter and the thread is pretty much done.

Clockwork
03-19-2010, 12:19 AM
Current Status of thread
Players of UN: Mixed feelings but mostly pissed
Non Players: Mixed as well but mostly sad

Conclusion: People have made their say of the matter and the thread is pretty much done.

Why do you keep trying to end the thread? If you have a problem with it, just ignore it and look at other threads.

snoop413
03-19-2010, 12:21 AM
Are you aware that you are probably one of the very few people to think that about Spryte? I am friends with her and even I am not blind to the fact that she didn't respond to the PMs of players in a timely manner. The facts are the facts.

and who is giving you these facts? i'm not trying to argue that spryte was a good manager, in fact she's probably one of the worst. but every time i had a question, or if i needed rights she would respond pretty quickly and either give them to me or just do what i needed for me. player wise, i have no idea. but i have noticed streety idles on rc a lot, and i have seen in masses people saying he ignores their pm's. so if you say spryte is bad with the players for ignoring pm's then how is streety any better when he does it too?

CharlieM
03-19-2010, 12:32 AM
Streety didn't though, He answered cross server PM's when most staff members disable it.

fowlplay4
03-19-2010, 12:51 AM
Streety didn't though, He answered cross server PM's when most staff members disable it.

If they can't log on the server and PM you, then they probably don't need to PM you that bad.

SwimChao
03-19-2010, 12:58 AM
I never intended on a 10 page argument when I posted this thread. I am appreciative towards the defense, but I was never angry about my removal.

My opinions were directed towards how I was removed. I have been emailing Bell back and forth the past 48 hours (Edit: I wrote days on accident, woops), and finally have been provided the information I was looking for. I have always supported Backdraft, and already told him that if he had any questions about the ropes of UN, I would be available to help.

I must admit that I feel awkward socializing with the other staff on RC right now. I feel like, as I said to another person, a thousand hateful eyes are staring at me whenever I interject. I assume that will subside.

As for my management, it's no secret that the past two months haven't been my best. A lot had gone on in between now, and December, but nobody is to blame but myself. I apologize to UN's staff and player base for the injustices I caused.

Elizabeth
03-19-2010, 12:59 AM
Current Status of thread
Players of UN: Mixed feelings but mostly sad
Non Players: Mixed as well but mostly sad


fixed :)

Nataxo
03-19-2010, 02:29 AM
Look @ the bright side!

This whole situation has made UN's playercount bigger lately!

BigBear3
03-19-2010, 02:32 AM
I like Streety. I don't play UN much but you're a good guy bro. Godspeed in your endeavors.

joel34
03-19-2010, 06:13 PM
/dance?

Lmao.

Fulg0reSama
03-19-2010, 11:02 PM
Why do you keep trying to end the thread? If you have a problem with it, just ignore it and look at other threads.

For the luls of aggravating people. If you don't like my attempts than maybe you should just wait for something better in the thread to sorry :D.

But it is true this thread is kinda going in a repetitive cycle.

To elizabeth(too lazy to quote):
Current Status of thread
Players of UN: Mixed feelings but mostly mad
Non Players: Mixed as well but mostly sad to hear

Both of us were wrong but i managed to fix it!

Hiro
03-20-2010, 05:16 AM
I personally do not like making a public spectacle of any management change. I feel it does no good for the server or the parties involved in the change. This situation did not end as I would of wished and both Backdraft and myself have left doors open with Streety that I hope he decides to take.

I agree that in some things it could of been handled differantly but hindsight is 20/20 and no managerial change is perfect. Even those done by the manager themselves often have their problems. I've explained myself at length to Streety so he's fully aware of how we came about this decision now. He may not agree but thats his choice and I respect his opinion of it.

There has been many comparisons with past UN management in this and other threads and we can all agree on one thing. Streety was a good manager while he was still actively managing. Just recently he's given myself and the other globals the strong sense he's burning out. He may not have seen it himself but its there. Instead of going down in flames and leaving Graal on a sour note. I would far prefer to have him take some time away from the pressure of management and stay interested in the server itself.

You may or may not agree with me on this, it really doesn't matter to me. This was the decision that was made in what we felt was in the best interests of the server and Streety and thats just how it is. This wasn't the first controversial judgement made by the PWA and I'm sure it won't be the last. Its just the nature of the beast.
so before he could ruin anything you removed him then? where was the lack of interest in the server? don't all people have things to take care of aside from the internet? simply by the way you removed him shows how poor the decision was

yeah you're not going to change your mind, but using some parent-child reasoning of "that's just how it is" doesn't exactly make sense in this case. i'm sure streety didn't want to quit, yet he was removed anyways based on evidence that you PWA don't even have and can only assume

so whatever, let's move onwards towards making graal a good game again

Venom_Fish
03-20-2010, 10:38 PM
All that was needed to be said has been said, alongside what wasn't needed as well.
Everyone's vented their opinions/feelings and so on.
Someone close this thread. There's really nothing more to be said.

Good luck Backdraft.

Fulg0reSama
03-21-2010, 01:00 AM
All that was needed to be said has been said, alongside what wasn't needed as well.
Everyone's vented their opinions/feelings and so on.
Someone close this thread. There's really nothing more to be said.

Good luck Backdraft.

Thank god someone else sees the light.

StoneCold316
03-25-2010, 03:48 PM
I think when NONE of the original staff members remain on the roster that the playerworld should be terminated. That'd give another playerworld a chance to have the top spot and drive competition.

salesman
03-25-2010, 04:08 PM
I think when NONE of the original staff members remain on the roster that the playerworld should be terminated. That'd give another playerworld a chance to have the top spot and drive competition.

is that a serious suggestion, or are you just ****ing with us?

TSAdmin
03-25-2010, 04:35 PM
is that a serious suggestion, or are you just ****ing with us?

Surely he jests. Anyone could figure out that nobody will just hang around when they're 30 just so their server doesn't get taken down. Such a demand would require being dictators :noob: As well as the easy to figure out point of "What the heck do you consider original staff?" point. When they were made and a small team of teething developers was put together? I doubt it. I reckon he was just pulling our legs, my friend.

Fulg0reSama
03-25-2010, 05:56 PM
is that a serious suggestion, or are you just ****ing with us?

Surely he jests. Anyone could figure out that nobody will just hang around when they're 30 just so their server doesn't get taken down. Such a demand would require being dictators :noob: As well as the easy to figure out point of "What the heck do you consider original staff?" point. When they were made and a small team of teething developers was put together? I doubt it. I reckon he was just pulling our legs, my friend.

http://www.untwistedvortex.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/dontfeedthetroll.jpg

StoneCold316
03-26-2010, 01:01 AM
By original I mean the first staff roster on the first day of being an official public playerworld. It reminds me of Power Rangers when we had the original team and then they slowly got replaced by different ones and then eventually none of the original members remained. It totally became a lost cause with no direction and became stale. Am I being serious? Yes. Am I aware that it is absurd? Yes I am, but I don't care! Simply stating my opinion.

Okilian
03-26-2010, 03:48 AM
That would be almost impossible to accomplish, with any server.

I mean, I was around for a long time on UN, being an original staffer, but other than that, most just leave for their own reasons.

I think requiring that staff stay or server gets shut down prevents the server from growing in it's own form. I think some servers like Era and such are where they are at because new people come and bring it to it's own level. Sometimes there are reasons people leave, like not being a good part of the team.

It's definitely a different idea, but one I don't think could be done ever.

Venom_Fish
03-26-2010, 12:55 PM
I don't disagree entirely but new people should have a firm idea of how the server currently runs in-and-out and understand its key components. Era has suffered due to a string of new management not knowing anything about the server and trying to add their ideas. You can't build upon something if you don't understand what it is.

New Management is realistic, but the classic is ideal. Far too idealistic though.
A middle-ground would be new management with an understanding of the classic structure/running of the server. Both realistic, and idealistic.